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BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?

Peter K (Fionn) 28 Jun 07 - 07:46 AM
The Fooles Troupe 28 Jun 07 - 09:54 AM
pirandello 28 Jun 07 - 12:29 PM
Leadbelly 28 Jun 07 - 04:58 PM
Hillheader 28 Jun 07 - 05:10 PM
George Papavgeris 28 Jun 07 - 06:20 PM
Greg B 28 Jun 07 - 08:19 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 28 Jun 07 - 08:41 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jun 07 - 07:14 AM
GUEST,PMB 29 Jun 07 - 07:59 AM
BanjoRay 29 Jun 07 - 08:18 AM
Mrrzy 29 Jun 07 - 01:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jun 07 - 02:08 PM
Mrrzy 29 Jun 07 - 06:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Jun 07 - 06:38 PM
fumblefingers 30 Jun 07 - 12:58 PM
greg stephens 30 Jun 07 - 01:18 PM
Jack Campin 30 Jun 07 - 02:03 PM

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Subject: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:46 AM

It's a bit late to start looking now of course. But that's the price you pay when you bang up a fall guy for several years.

The case against Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi was woefully thin. It was cooked up when it suited the US (and therefore the UK) to let Iran out of the frame. His conviction has now been referred to the Court of Appeal by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, and it's likely to open a can of worms.

About 70 per cent of CCRC referrals result in acquittals. I don't think they'd have taken up a cause as mega high-profile as this one unless they were confident of a result.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:54 AM

It was probably just the CIA - again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: pirandello
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:29 PM

Just heard that he has been allowed a second appeal. I hate to appear conspiratorial but terrorists usually admit responsibilty for their actions, wanting maximum publicity for their 'cause'.
If it was the CIA (and nothing that woeful bunch of incompetents does would surprise me) we will never know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Leadbelly
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 04:58 PM

Isn't this typical??? Think about deeply. Again and again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Hillheader
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 05:10 PM

Here is Scotland we will say "A big boy done it and ran away".

It the final analysis, it does not matter who did it. It only matters that the man who was jailed for it (apparently) did not and that once again governments on both sides of the Atlantic have (apparently) engineered a conviction for their own political ends.

A bit like Pearl Harbour really when I think about it......


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:20 PM

I happen to be reading Grisham's non-fiction "An innocent man" right now, about real-life, miscarriages of justice in our times. And I confess that I was getting a little smug; surely these things wouldn't happen in the UK, would they? Well, blow me down!


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Greg B
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 08:19 PM

Blow you down? Now what does that mean?



A former colleague of mine's father died on that flight.

I think of Tammy every time someone brings it up.

Personally, I don't believe that even the CIA was capable of
that kind of callous disregard for the lives of innocents.
Not in that number. If they'd needed a 'cause celebre' they'd
have brought down a cargo flight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 08:41 PM

Wouldn't happen in the UK, George? When it comes to misccarriages of justice we lead the civilised world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:14 AM

Well, LOckwerbie happened only five after the US warship USS Vincennes shot down a civilian Iranian plane and killed everybody on board - 290, more than died in the Lockerbie atrocity.

The captain of USS Vincennes was later decorated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:59 AM

The rumour that was about at the time was that it was Palestinians acting for Iran, and that the CIA were involved because they thought that the smuggled radio contained heroin as part of a deal about some nefarious operation carried out on their behalf. But I don't know why you would think the CIA incapable of the actual deed.

Or maybe that was a novel, or a joke in Private Eye. But it's pretty certain that Gaddafy played a cynical hand, 'giving up' a nuclear program he never had, handing over a fall guy and paying compensation so that he was on 'our' side in the war against terror. And of course the subsequent rise in oil prices meant that the few billion he payed in compensation was more than payed for by the lifting of sanctions.

What worries me sometimes is that people can feel their anger and grief at losing a loved one as a reason not to examine the truth behind the tragedy. As though it doesn't matter who is punished, as long as somebody is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:18 AM

Jim Swires, who lost his daughter at Lockerbie and has been heavily involved in the aftermath, seems to be convinced that Al-Megrahy didn't do it. I think he's probably right.
Ray


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:42 PM

Another parent of a Lockerbie victim is equally convinced that he DID do it. How awful for all of the survivors not to have this over with already.
The Scots have Not Proven as an available verdict; I like that.

The Libyans have admitted to this bombing. But from what I hear, the main issue is worth an appeal: The person who fingered him in the line-up had seen his picture in the paper a few days before, in an article about how he was suspected of doing whatever he was fingered for. That is certainly enough to get the fingering thrown out, I would think. And without it there may not be enough evidence to convict.

We may never know whodunit. Being acquitted doesn't mean you didn't, and being convicted doesn't mean you did. *sigh.*


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 02:08 PM

"The Libyans have admitted to this bombing." They never have done exactly that - they just gave into demands to pay damages - as part of the deal PMB referred to, as a price for getting back into the good books of the USA and its satellites, and escaping sanctions.

"On August 15, 2003, Libya's UN ambassador, Ahmed Own, submitted a letter to the UN Security Council formally accepting "responsibility for the actions of its officials" in relation to the Lockerbie bombing.[28] The Libyan government then proceeded to pay compensation to each family of US$8 million (from which legal fees of about US$2.5 million were deducted) and, as a result, the UN cancelled the sanctions that had been suspended four years earlier, and U.S. trade sanctions were lifted... On February 24, 2004, Libyan Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem stated in a BBC Radio 4 interview that his country had paid the compensation as the "price for peace" and to secure the lifting of sanctions. Asked if Libya did not accept guilt, he said, "I agree with that..."(From here)

In other words they accepted responsibility for whatever their officials had done - but they never said that that included bombing the aeroplane. And have continued to deny that there was any such involvement.

And they handed their man al-Megrahi over for trial - but that was was supposed to be a fair trial. In fact it appears likely that the judges convicted him against the weight of the evidence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:15 PM

I don't think they would have agreed to the deal if they weren't in on it. I'm not saying they weren't sent by Iran or someone else. Take the 1983 Beirut embassy bombing when Hezbollah went after the Ambassador to Beirut but got Dad (and 60+ others)- the individuals had been trained in Syria and hte mission was brought to us by Iran, but Hezbollah still did it. As did Iran, to the greater extent, and Syria as a minor contributor.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:38 PM

I don't think they would have agreed to the deal if they weren't in on it.

Why on earth not? Libya stood to gain a lot financially and politically by cutting a deal.

In addition it averted the risk that America might decide to carry out another attack like the one in 1986 in which Gadaffi's adopted daughter Hanna, aged 15 months, was among the dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: fumblefingers
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 12:58 PM

The Elbonians obviously did it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 01:18 PM

Iranians? Libyans? CIA? Mossad? Green lizrds? Doesn't seem to matter to most posters who actually did it, just blame the people you don't like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie: So who DID do it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 02:03 PM

Another possibility: South Africa, or one of its allies (Portugal, UNITA or the CIA). The highest-profile victim on the flight was Bent Carlsson, the UN High Commissioner for Namibia, on his way to negotiate UNITA's surrender agreement and the end of the Namibian civil war. Carlsson's partner found it extraordinarily difficult to get any answers about what happened to him. Given what Savimbi had previously done in association with Reagan and the CIA, killing a planeload of innocent people would have been peanuts.


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