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Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98
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Subject: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:41 PM I know Windows 98 right...what can I do.But I figured some brainiac here must know! Mudcatters have the combined experience and knowledge of an entire set of encyclopedias! The problem is someone installed a dvd burner (a year and a half ago and is no longer around) and all it will offer to burn is CDs.Even after I download the dvd onto my computer. So I emailed tech support. I get five pages of stuff starting with resetting my BIOS to default-then uninstalling-then cleaning the registry {scary!!!) and then reinstalling. Unfortunately I can't get the BIOS menu to come up. I've tried rebooting each time I tried, one at a time, hitting F5, F10, F-4 ctrol-H-NOTHIN! I get a strange sound like it's trying to but can't. My question is, is there some other way to get to BIOS? And what if I uninstall and clean the registry and reinstall without resetting the default bios? I am desparate to get this dvd burned!(an audition) This computer was a gift 4 years ago so I don't have the manuel. I may just have to break down and find one... Any help would be greatly appreciate!!! Judy |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:42 PM I should add I have spent days researching on the web to no avail...course Windows "does not support 98 anymore" (the wankers) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca Date: 12 Jul 07 - 07:07 PM Used to be to hit Delete when booting to access BIOS while upload in progress. Will have to check on a '98 Windows machine. Which might not be until Sat |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: JohnInKansas Date: 12 Jul 07 - 07:54 PM Our resident expert on Win98 seems to be Foulestroupe. Perhaps he'd replay to a PM(?). He was making noises about switching to something else, but I believe he had Win98 still running recently. The procedure for getting into BIOS is determined by the computer manufacturer and/or by the chip maker who made the BIOS chip, and there's been a lot of variation in how it's done on different machines. A likely reason why your DVD doesn't do DVD is that Win98 didn't come with and hence (according to my dim recollection) didn't install the codex files for DVD modes of operation. Checking with the drive manufacturer for updated drivers, drive BIOS, and codex files would be in order, expecially after moving the drive to a new machine. (The drive itself has a BIOS that's separate from the computer BIOS.) Some optical drive makers also post drive diagnostic programs that may be helpful. Early combo drives had a tendency to fail the DVD part, but still work okay for CDs; so verifying that the DVD functions are working may be needed. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:12 PM JohninKansas said "A likely reason why your DVD doesn't do DVD is that Win98 didn't come with and hence (according to my dim recollection) didn't install the codex files for DVD modes of operation. Checking with the drive manufacturer for updated drivers, drive BIOS, and codex files would be in order, expecially after moving the drive to a new machine. (The drive itself has a BIOS that's separate from the computer BIOS.)" EKKK! This reminds me of a cartoon I saw where the guy was chewing his dog out, and the bubble over his head said,"Bad dog Ginger! Do NOT jump on the furniture! Leave the garbage alone! You need to behave Ginger!" and the bubble over the dog's head said, "Blah blah Ginger! Blah blah blah blah Ginger!" Meaning: WHA? You are talking to an idiot. Are you saying what I need is some new drivers for the bios and the codex files(whatever that is)? I appreciate your help. I will also pm Foulestroupe in the hopes he has mercy on poor geekless soul and tell me what to do next! Thanks! Judy |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: GUEST,Norval Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:50 PM ColdJam, Perhaps one of the following will access your bios. Acer: - Ctrl+Alt+Esc ALR PC: F2 or Ctrl+Alt+Esc AMI BIOS: (Del), (F1) or (F2) AST, Advantage, Award, Tandon: - Ctrl+Alt+Esc Award BIOS: Del or Ctrl+Alt+Esc Compaq: (F2) or (F10) (when the cursor is in the upper right corner blinking) Dell: - F1 or Del. Dell: - Ctrl+Alt+Enter Gateway 2000: - F1 Hewlett Packard: - F1 IBM: Aptiva - F1 IBM PS/2: (Ctrl)(Alt)(Ins) after (Ctrl)(Alt)(Del) IBM PS/2 with reference partition: - Press Ins during boot NEC: - F2 Packard Bell: - F1 or F2 Phoenix BIOS: - F1 or F2, or (Ctrl)(Alt)(Esc) Phoenix BIOS: - Ctrl Alt S Phoenix BIOS: - Ctrl S Phoenix BIOS: - Ctrl Alt Ins What is the brand name of your computer? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: GUEST Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:06 PM What make of machine (processor) What version of Win 98 What was the last change to your bios or software added? What make/model/date CD and burner (guess - NERO?)
Use, search/find and sort by date for changes to your REG.....you should be able to come within the time span of the problem
Google - problem from search/find
Remove according to instructions
It is only 99cents for latest Michael Jackson - why be so cheap? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Jul 07 - 12:49 AM Actually, JiK & Norval have already said anything about the BIOS setup that I would have. USUALLY, the key to press will be shown as it boots anyway - on most PCs... but then Murphy loves computers... "Early combo drives had a tendency to fail the DVD" is very true... Try looking in the Windows Control Panel 'Install/uninstall programs' thingie, you may find the DVD drivers install/unstall there. Not been using the Win98 box for a few weeks - still trying to set up 2 PC-PC direct FC6 X-over cable LAN... then with Samba I can transfer my Winbox stuff over too... will be setting up a Linux router - so network is needed... "A likely reason why your DVD doesn't do DVD is that Win98 didn't come with and hence (according to my dim recollection) didn't install the codex files for DVD modes of operation. Checking with the drive manufacturer for updated drivers, drive BIOS, and codex files would be in order, expecially after moving the drive to a new machine." Well. you have already said you don;t get that, but I would have said much the same... actuaklly it's 'codec' - plural 'codecs', not 'codex' but I'm a pedantic speller... :-P JiK.... Robin |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Jul 07 - 01:00 AM If you have the CD that came with the drive - it would have the driver files on it - sometimes it will also have an uninstall program - but I guess that you don't have that either. The problem is that the generic answers for your problems are very simple, the precise answers require responses from you to some of the questions as to makers brands of the hardware, etc, the precise answer would then be even more obtuse to someone with as little related expereice as you claim (love that cartoon ever since I saw it..)... it MAY even be as simple as needing a cable replaced or just reseated, but without an experienced person being hands on there, it is just mostly random guesses at our ends... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:57 AM Thanks so much. I shall ponder the information and see what filters through and attempt to diagnose some more... Thanks you guys-you're the best! Judy |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: JohnInKansas Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:30 PM I found several apparently believable sites still with Win98 information using the Google search "Settings BIOS Windows 98" (without the quotes). The keys most commonly cited for entering BIOS are Delete (common for Dell and some others) and F10 (usual for HP and other others). Almost any other key can be used, and only the computer manufacturer or the mother board builder can give an unambiguous answer for your machine. "F-keys" are most common, and normal "alphabet" keys haven't been used so far as I've seen. Ctl and/or Tab may have been used(?). See the list by Norval up above. With Win98, you usually will hear a series of "beeps" when the machine is first turned on. The "beep codes" tell you that the computer is checking the keyboard, looking to see if a monitor is present, and a few other basic hardware checks. You also will normally see an instruction "flash by" that says "Press [some key name] to enter SETUP. The key to "enter SETUP" is the one you want, if you see a message of this kind. Note that with some CRT monitors, the monitor "turn on" may be too slow to show the first few "messages" although this is rare. You may be able to plug a slow monitor into a separate outlet so the monitor is turned on and warmed up before you boot, if this appears to be happening. Unlike early Mac versions, DOS/Windows machines usually don't care about the order in which things are turned on. You must press the appropriate key while the message is still on the screen, and hold it down until the desired result is completed. [Usually, when you press a key, the scan code for that key is fed into the "keyboard buffer" and remains there until something "asks for it." Some of the startup checks do a "keyboard buffer dump" that empties the buffer, so the key must be held down to feed a continuous stream of "this key" values back into the buffer, so that one will be there when the system looks to see if the key was pressed.] If you don't see the message, you need to choose a key to try, press at the first "beep," and hold it down until the machine gets done with the boot (or at least until it shows that the key didn't work and the machine is booting normal Windows). If you don't' hear any "beeps," just press the key you want to try as soon as you hit the switch to turn the machine on, and hold it until the SETUP screen comes up or the machine ignores the key you tried and goes on into Windows. The screen you want may be labelled either BIOS or SETUP or BIOS SETUP, or rarely (I think) SETTINGS. Your Win98 installation disk(s) should be "bootable" and if you insert either the CD or Disk 1 of a floppy set in the appropriate drive and boot with the disk present it should boot from the disk, which may give you different startup messages. You can also create a "Boot Floppy" from files on your computer. One source of instructions for doing this is at Building a Fresh New Win98 Machine. There's a lot more information than you need there, so you'll have to read through to find the "Making A Setup Disk" and adjacent stuff. Even here, the article can't tell you how to get into SETUP since that varies with each machine. The instructions here do tell you what files have to be on the disk to allow you to access the CD drive (especially mscdx.exe). Since settings in the BIOS can suppress both the beep codes and the boot messages, using a different boot disk probably won't do anything different than what you see booting from your hard drive, but as a last resort it may be worth trying. The files listed for the boot/setup disk will NOT allow you to use DVD functions of a combo drive. For that you need a driver specific to your DVD/CD drive, which may install in place of or in addition to the default windows CD driver mscdx.exe. The Google search that I did (see above) appears to return at least some "user blog" sites where you may find people still using (and discussing) Win98 – and even Win95. If you troll around a few of them and can find one that looks reasonably friendly, posting a question where there's a higher knowledge density relative to Win98 may be more helpful than here. Be aware though, that just like here sometimes people say more than they really know – i.e. if advice doesn't' sound reasonable don't do it. I'd also recomment that you DON'T click on the numerous sidebar adds you're likely to see for "Fix any Problem" etc, without doing some serious checking on the sources. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:06 PM John, you're a prince. Thank you. I did know to hold the key down while booting up--obviously didn't make any difference, but a noise like static came from my maching as I held it down-. I'll ask you the same question I asked foolstroupe, "Can I just uninstall and then reinstall my dvd player?" or must I default the bios settings, clean & save my registry and THEN reinstall? THanks again for the links and the info...I'll try to chase it down! Judy |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:21 PM coldjam asked me privately QUOTE I have studied your answer and checked the install/uninstall place-thingy and it shows it as installed-no where do I find an offer to install, or that there are, additional drivers. I also clicked on the HP-dvd icon and cked for driver updates and it says I have up-to-date drivers. I do have the installation disc. I bought it at Walmart a year or so ago and it's supposed to be win98 compatable. BIG QUESTION; Can I uninstall it with out going to bios default settings? Cause if I can do that I will and try to reinstall it again. Tech support told me to default bios, clean and back up the resgistry as well-is that necessary? Or just "a good idea"? UNQUOTE "Can I uninstall it with out going to bios default settings?" The 'BIOS settings' that refer to the optical (& hard) drive are usually ionserted by the BIOS itself when it searches the drive which identifies itself. Only very old machines used to ask you to type that data in, and I seem to remember that it was before optical drives were around much. Perhaps another old fart like JiK may remember... :-P I am not at home at the moment and have no Win9x machine - from memory, in the install new progs list, if you kighlight it and click the button, it should uninstall it if it can from there. "Tech support told me to default bios, clean and back up the resgistry as well-" The registry backup always seems a good idea, but depending on a few things, you may not have very many copies of the backups kept at a time - so you can overwrite a good copy with a 'flaky' copy if you are unlucky. Generally though the advice is basically good, as it will then remember all the programs you installed since the last backup. Once you have the drive sucessfully uninstalled, you should do a new backup. Then when you habve it reinstalled, another. The problem is that if the HW has died, you will go through all this, and the thing will still not work. "clean the registry" This is quite good advice - but you need a good tool to do this. I can remember nothing relevant useful without the machine in fornt of me. Having been concentrating on Linux for some time, I am not as focused on Win9x - my memory is sorta the type that when I learn something new, it tends to push the old stuff out of the ears... :-) "default the bios" Well, that's interesting, It's a new take on the old 'format the hard drive and reinstall WIndows', isn't it John? :-) ROFL Defaulting the BIOS should only be of any use if someone has 'fiddled ignorantly' with it, setting up something really badly wrong. Of course there are claims about cosmic rays twiddling bits on the chips, but I don't really know, I'm not THAT much of an expert... :-) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:24 PM Yahoo! DELETE did it! Thank you guys so much! It's a genueintel and wind98SE... Norval thank you so much for your trouble too. So, now onward to step two uninstalling...and *shudder*cleaning and backing up the registry. I feel like I'm doing brain surgery! The tech guy recommended www.registry-clean.com/ but said it was a non-HP site and they're not responsible for the information-gee thanks tech guy...anyone ever use this? Many, many thanks. You have no idea how many hours I've spent trying to figure this first stupid step out... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: JohnInKansas Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:27 PM The "noise like static" was probably telling you that the keyboard buffer was full, and was the sound of more "this key" signals "bouncing off" the buffer. It doesn't hurt a thing, since "rejected bits" have a place to go called the "bit bucket" - a device part of all computers to keep stray bits from running out on the floor. (a very old joke) My recollection of Win98 details is rather weak, but somewhere withing Win98 you have a module called "Device Manager" or "Hardware Manager" or something like that. Do the "unthinkable" and look in Windows Help (Usually Start|Help) and you should find instructions for getting to it if you haven't figured that out already. Try "Add New Hardware" for a search term in Help if something else doesn't pop up. If you find your DVD/CD drive "installed" there, try DELETING the drive, (in the "Manager") and then reboot. Win98 should find the drive as a "device not installed." It will automatically pull a driver from its stock of generic ones if your Win98 CAB files are still on the hard drive, or will ask you for your installation disk(s) if the CAB files have been removed, and/or will ask if you have a driver (i.e. an installation disk for the DVD/CD drive). [This is the way you should uninstall/install a device.] If no "Optical Drive" or CD drive or DVD drive is shown in the "Manager," it probably means that Windows can't even see the drive, which could be caused by that vast number of "possibles" that are very difficult to deal with long distance. One possible cause would be that the mscdx.exe file isn't listed in your Autoexec.bat or Config.sys files, but that's unlikely if the CD functions work. If the file isn't loaded when you boot, Windows doesn't know how to talk to an "optical drive" and sometimes can't tell what it is. You can find the AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS files using Windows Explorer, although you may have to turn on "show hidden and system files" in Tools Options in Win Explorer. The files will open in Notepad (or any Word Processor) so you can look at what's in them. As long as that file appears in one of them, just exit without saving. With Win98, both of the files should be in system root (C:\) location. Beyond that, I can't think of any simple suggestions other than to try looking at the computer maker's site to try to find a BIOS/SETUP key that may work, and try looking at the DVD/CD drive manufacturer's site so see if there's an updated Drive BIOS and/or driver that you can download. If the computer is an "unbranded one" you might be able to look inside and find the BIOS chip, and try looking up that BIOS, but the "identifiers" on the chip are in mystic languages that makes it hard even to tell which one is the right chip, much less who made it. If you don't see the message during boot that says "Press [some key] to enter setup" the BIOS has been set for "quiet boot" and I don't know of a method for getting in except by remembering what it used to say, or by finding the right key(s) by trial and error. - Later versions of Windows give some information about BIOS settings in "System Information," which may be something you'll find in the list of programs, probably under Accessories/System Tools or something similar. I don't recall how much info Win98 included. (My recollection was that I tried to print a Win98 SysInfo file once and ended up with only a few hundred pages, so it's a lot less info than you get from WinXP.) - The maker of your computer may have "edited" the Win98 Help files, if it was an OEM installation, so you may be able to find how to get into SETUP there(?). If you've upgraded from an earlier (Win95?) OEM, the old Win95 Help files might have information(?), since the method depends on the BIOS and other hardware which wouldn't have been changed by the upgrade - no warranties on this though. Win98 should be able to read Win95 Help files, although that's another thing lost in the fog of distant times past. There have been changes in help file format that make some older ones unreadable in new Win versions. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:43 PM You know the funny(yeah ha ha) thing is , there is a flash when booting up, that says ctrl-H for bios settings, but it never worked, and I tried it multiple times--holding it down AND pushing repeatedly. I am just so elated that DELETE worked. Thank you! No one's mentioned the registry thing...should I go ahead and take their recommendation and download www.registry-clean.com/ and then back up the registry? The only reason I'm hesitating is I had a problem following step ONE! What's gonna happen if I get half way thru and their instructions don't work on my computer? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:16 PM "What's gonna happen if I get half way thru and their instructions don't work on my computer?" You probably won't be able to talk to us!!!!!!!!! :-) There used to be a generic MS syscleaner - but I can't remmber the details - musta leaked out my ear... John - you are right it's the 'HW module' you mention - not the SW one I was thinking of... "find the AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS files" In the menu somewhere under system utilities (I moved mine around and put extra links in so my menu entries won't help you!) there is a 'sysedit' prog - you could find it via 'search' too - which brings up all the relevant files to be edited - don't fiddle with anything you don't need to... sysedit.exe |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: GUEST,Norval Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:16 PM ColdJam: This link will take you to downlaod site where you can get a Microsoft utility called ERU (Error Recovery Utility) which will backup the registry and other important startup files. After running ERU you will be able to clean the registry to your hearts content knowing you can recover if any errors should occur. Scroll down the page until you see MS ERU, download, unzip, then run. ERU wants to backup to a floppy disk, but in my experience the files are far to large, so backup to hard disk using the default folder C:\ERD. MS ERU After you have run ERU go to this page, (A Faster Better Behaved Windows 98) for some good reading and some registry cleaner downloads. A Faster Better Behaved Windows 98 I buy older computers at a nearby thrift store for $10-$20, clean them up and make them run better. On Win98 systems I run these utilities with good results: ERU - to backup the registry Easy Cleaner - Clean the registry Reg Seeker - Clean the registry (catches what EasyCleaner misses) Ole Clean - Clean the registry (catches more missed crud) Then Boot to the DOS prompt (not DOS under Windows). At the command prompt type: Scanreg /fix Then ReBoot to Windows. It should run faster and better. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: GUEST Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:25 PM Sated before - in this thread - and then clone deleated.
Go backwards with Start/Find/Date - locate the date of problem
WAS THE BURNER = Nero?????
Nero is "weird" it will not fully un-install, it has deep roots - the "boards" can better walk you through the steps.
WHAT IS the system?
YES, before clone removal.... REGISTRY was mentioned.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 15 Jul 07 - 10:45 PM Thanks Norval, I give it a go! Foolstroupe said,"You probably won't be able to talk to us!!!!!!!!! :-) Hah. You can't get rid of me that easily! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 16 Jul 07 - 12:02 AM Norval...I downloaded the program ERU, but when I try to run it, it keeps asking me to enter the registration code!!! What's a mother to do? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: GUEST,Bhs Date: 16 Jul 07 - 06:51 AM it's a long thread ... I don't know if you are able to access bios yet or not but normally when that happens, this is how it fixed generally, First of all, disconnect all drives. You don't need a hard drive or a CD drive or a floppy drive to get into the BIOS. It's best to start a fresh build at the bare minimum. Like in this case, it's more important to be able to get into the BIOS than it is to jump into a Windows installation. If the BIOS doesn't work, Windows won't, either! But that's because Windows takes every opportunity to not work... The next thing I would try is to unplug the system, and take the mother board battery out. It's a CR2032 button cell. Remove it. Wait 10 minutes. Don't put the battery back in. Plug the system back in. Boot it up. If it works fine without the battery, replace it. Those things are only $2-3 each. & in 7 years working with win98, never it crashed nor generated errors, reason is that you install a Registry & a RAM cleaner run them almost everyday, 2ndly it has issue with RAM so I stuck in 256 & 512MB from time to time. I still think win98 was the best windows only if MS had fixed it's issue with memory dump and more support for other devices. regards Bhs |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: GUEST,Norval Date: 16 Jul 07 - 09:51 AM ColdJam: I just downloaded, unzipped and ran ERU. It ran just fine without asking for a registration code on this computer, on which it has never been installed before. The program is a Microsoft creation which could not be found on their site, so i directed you to the link above. In the 7-8 years I have installed and used it a request for registration has never been observed. Perhaps try to install and run it again. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM Thanks bhs, but I got the bios set finally. Norval I have done it and it works now! Thanks! The problem was it showed no hour glass or process running and I didn't realize it was working at first!Thank you for the tip! Still wondering if anyone can tell me whether it's necessary to clean and back up the registry BEFORE I can uninstall and then reinstall the dvd burner? That's the question of the hour... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: JohnInKansas Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:23 PM It's always a sort of good idea to have a backup of your registry just as you should have a backup of your critical data files, just in case something goes wrong. You don't need any extra programs to make a perfectly good backup. Click Start, Run, type regedit, and hit enter. When regedit opens, make sure the top item is selected, click File | Export, pick a place to put the file and give it a name, preferably including the date so that you'll know when you did it. Regedit will automatically put a .reg file extension on it. Anytime you need to "restore" the registry, just find the file (in Windows Explorer/File Manager) and double-click on it, and the file contents are automatically written back into the registry. System Recovery makes automatic backups in later Win versions, and I believe Win98 did so as well, but keeps only the last few backups. With an automatic backup, there's always the possibility that a malware infection may be included in the backup, and you may restore it if you use a very recent one, so having one you made for yourself when you're sure the machine is "clean" is good practice - although seldom done by many people. The is NO COMPELLING REASON for making a special backup to remove and reinstall a hardware device and its drivers. This is a routine maintenance sort of thing. Every time you boot, Windows looks for all the devices that are connected, and then looks to see if drivers are installed for all of them, and automagically installs any that are missing if any such are found. Just use the Device Manager/Hardware Manager in Control Panel as intended to remove the device. It should be found at the next boot, and Windows will automatically supply an "appropriate" driver, or will ask you if you have one you want to use. Registry cleanup programs are plentifully available, and may actually do some good if your system has gotten really full of trash, but are seldom a real necessity. They satisfy the same need as the personal compulsion some people have for washing and waxing their personal vehicle, vs the others who figure it rains often enough to take care of it. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: Setting BIOS Windows 98 From: coldjam Date: 23 Jul 07 - 12:41 PM Thank you very much John! You put my tiny mind at ease! Judy |
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