Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning

Subject: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:18 PM

On the net there is a page dedicated to the music in "Oude en Nieuwe Hollantse Boerenlieties en Contredansen," a collection of Dutch music published in the early eighteenth century.

Last Saturday, we had a lot of fun playing a dance from this collection. The name of the dance is "Het Waale Weeshuijs."

Anybody know what that means? Babelfish was baffled by it.

If you would like to go to the site and explore the music, it is at

http://members.home.nl/simonplantinga/hbc/

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: peregrina
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:49 PM

a weeshuis is an orphanage. I don't know waale and don't have access to my dictionary here now, but I wonder---are you quite sure the word isn't waalse?

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:05 AM

Thanks.

I checked the printed song, and it's waale, all right. Could be a typo, I suppose.

If you were thinking it might be a waltz, it's not, because it is in 4/4 time. (I don't think the waltz had been invented yet.)

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:13 AM

Het = the

Waale = Walloon

Weeshuis (NO j) = orphanage

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:33 AM

Thanks. (There's a j in the original, but that may be archaic.)

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Darowyn
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 04:33 AM

So Waale means a French Speaking inhabitant of the Low Countries, in Dutch.
Since Dutch and English were the same language only a thousand years ago, it's reasonable to guess that the Walloons, like the Cymru, were originally Gauls- "Wala" in Anglo Saxon- Welsh in modern English.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 09:58 AM

Interesting, and probably correct.

I've heard that "walnut" fits in there somewhere.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 12:43 PM

The root wal/wel seems common to most germanic languages and means "foreign" or non-germanic, not necessarily Gaulish. Around the 18th century the German word "welsch" (meaning 'foreign') was more specifically applied to things and people Italian.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,MG
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 04:01 PM

Someone told me that ..oops..Friesins ?? from Netherlands and Highland Scots could understand each other...

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 04:07 PM

Frisians I think.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM

Us heit, dy't yn de himelen binne; jins namme wurde hillige. Jins keninkryk komme. Jins wollen barre allyk yn 'e himel, sa ek op ierde. Jow ús hjoed ús deistich brea. En forjow ús ús skulden, allyk ek wy forjowe ús skuldners. En lied ús net yn forsiking, mar forlos ús fan 'e kweade, Hwant Jowes is it keninkryk en de krêft en de hearlikheit oant yn ivichheit..
(Modern West Frisian)








Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:20 PM

Older version. Some similarities to OE.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 10:33 AM

Peace, until you told me that the first one was the Lord's Prayer, I had no idea. I don't think the language are that similar, to tell you the truth.
=====
Snuffy, that was interesting about German "welsch" referring to Italians. As it happens, I just visited Italy, and much about it did indeed seem foreign. For example, the idea that it's all right to ram a pedestrian with your moped going 25 mph if only you honk from ten feet away.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 03:35 PM

The similarity I meant was between Old Frisian and Old English.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 03:38 PM

Just found this:

Frisian
Frisian is nowadays only spoken by about a quarter of a million people in the North of Holland and a few pockets in Germany and Denmark.
It is said that speakers of Frisian have little difficulty reading Old English: Frisian is closely related to the language of the Angles and Saxons that crossed the North Sea to England ca 500 AD/CE; but then there were 1500 years of separate development, English was greatly changed by the languages of the Vikings and the French of the Norman invaders, and Frisian was even more massively influenced by many centuries of Dutch rule.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 03:41 PM

The above is from here. THIS is a really good site. FYI.

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Arnie
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 03:46 PM

Alfred den Ouden visited our folk club recently and sang a few songs in Flemish. One of them, The Old Woman (something like De Oude Vrouw in Flemish)was almost all understandable to us English speakers. I had a bit of an advantage as I understand a little German but when he used words like yow & mij (you and me) it almost sounded Brummie!

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: Stewart
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 07:02 PM

I lived in the Netherlands for a year in the mid 1970s, and learned to speak a bit of (een beetje) Nederlands (Dutch). It is easier than German, which I had studied in school (but don't tell a Nederlander that it is 'German simplified'!). It also helps if you know a little 'old English' since some of the words are similar. Most Nederlanders can understand and speak German (also English and French, which are taught in their schools), but most Germans cannot understand Nederlands. Frisian is really a different language, not a dialect of Nederlands, but it is closer to English. The interesting thing is that there are many different dialects in this little country of Nederland. Most are understood by most Nederlanders, but the dialect around Maastricht (southeast) is not easily understood by others. Flemish is really a dialect of Nederlands and understood by most. My difficulty when I go to Germany is that when I try to speak German it comes out half in Nederlands, which confuses the heck out of the Germans (just what language are you speaking?).

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Het Waale Weeshuijs - meaning
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 11:44 PM

Peace, thanks for the link to the site about Friesian, Dutch and English. That was interesting.