Three greatest Scottish cultural figures

Subject: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:13 PM

Three greatest Scottish cultural figures of the 20th century:

Hugh MacDiarmid, Ewan MacColl, Hamish Henderson... and Sean Connery.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:14 PM

Your point is? oh and learn to count.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM

I'll vote for Megan, Giok and Megan.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM

And of course, Ewan McColl [aka Jimmy miller] wasn't a Scot
Giok

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:21 PM

& Robert Burns was an Aussie

Barry

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:21 PM

Sounds a bit Scot's name, though.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM

My point is to elicit people's opinion.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:28 PM

Both MacColl's parents were Scottish. If he had been born in China would that have made him Chinese?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM

I can count. I chose to make an apparently ill judged attempt at jocularity (sic).

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM

Yes

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:34 PM

You lie, you lie, so loud I hear you lie.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:34 PM

My son was born in England of Scots parents, he's still English by birth, and British by nationality.
Hugh McDairmid was another one masquerading under an assumed name too BTW.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:42 PM

Sean Connery, Jimmy Shand, and that Dundee Beano and Dandy bloke.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:47 PM

Was Scrooge McDuck Scottish?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

As Scottish as Tony Blair

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Tootler
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM

And I was born in Aberdeen of an English Father and a Scots Mother, so what does that make me - apart from a mongrel that is :-)

I am equally proud of my English and Scots Heritage.

Ewan MacColl or Jimmy Miller if you prefer, obviously discovered his Scots heritage and took pride in it. Nothing wrong with that. This seems to me yet another unjustified swipe at MacColl rather than celebrating his not unsubstantial achievements.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:57 PM

My wife is Scottish, I'm English, our children were born in England. Try telling her her children aren't half Scottish, and you won't get far, Giok!

Christopher Murray Grieve, James Henry Miller. Both good Scots names, but not as euphonious or distinctive (or as arty farty either, perhaps) as the ones they chose to work under. Where is the masquerade? That word, to me at least, implies deception. A lot of artists choose different names to work under. (Did Richard Starkey masquerade, for one? Or Robert Sutherland for another?) Were MacDiarmid's literary achievement less than his son's (also Christopher Grieve) because the latter worked under his own name?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:57 PM

Andy Stewart, Chic Murray and Jimmy Krankie

LFF

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:58 PM

No Tootler, not one word was said against his achievements which I too admire, I even named my aforementioned son after him. Please don't assume that just because I mention the fact about his name change that I am agin the man's works.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:05 PM

So far, Sean Connery is winning, with two votes, although maybe mine doesn't count as I named four. So it's a draw as half-time approaches, unless we go to the video referee... Who is an Irishman by the name of Viddy O'Referee.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:08 PM

Phillip you are confusing birth nationality with cultural identity. My son lives and works in the USA, and my grandson was born there, so he is an American, and entitled to a US passport too I believe.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:14 PM

No, I'm not confused at all. This thread was meant to be about culture, not passports. MacColl was a Scot. There is no English passport, and (I believe) no English nationality in law. Being born here did not therefore make him English. American law is irrelevant to this idea.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:16 PM

He wasn't born in Scotland, ergo he is NOT a Scot

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM

OK, you've convinced me with those capital letters. If the level of your argumentation is so strong I may as well give up. (It was Ringo and Robert Garioch, by the way, and the answer you didn't supply was no, Christopher Grieve is not a greater writer than his father.)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:25 PM

They fade into insignificance when viewed against George Makay Brown,J. Storer Clouston and Robert Rendall.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:34 PM

Take your pick
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Seán Báite
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:41 PM

Where the f@@k is James Kelman in that lot, Giok ?? ...
big shaggin oversight...
Or did he simply chin the photographer before the flash went off ??

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:48 PM

Yes it is an eclectic collection, no Lewis Grassick Gibbon either I notice. Another fine writer.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:27 PM

No RLS there either, maybe this is why..."This site features a selection of leading Scottish writers, photographed in a 30-year period by Edinburgh publisher and photographer Gordon Wright."

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:28 PM

I'm ashamed to admit that the only Scottish cultural figure who has been mentioned in this thread thus far and who is familiar to me is Sean Connery and Robert Burns {notice that I wtote Sean Connery's name first}.

I opened this thread to learn more about Scottish culture and I ntend to look up the names of those other persons who have been mentioned.

But if you're being facetious, how about this immortal Scottish hero ?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:40 PM

With all that to choose from gnu picks Giok and Megan....WOT????

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:51 PM

Gnu is a gentleman who is nice to those he thinks of as friends. Considering his genepool is French Irish Canadian he did well to know any Scots.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Francy
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 07:00 PM

Dick Gaughan

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 07:33 PM

Jean Redpath

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 07:45 PM

Ian Rankin, Bert Jansch, Glen Livet and Dougie Maclean, and theres hundred of the buggers.... Alex Harvey, Robin Williamson, Alexander Trocchi

anyway theres more than three

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM

Alba...this life AND she WAS the definitive Scottish heroine in a past life in the 20th century! Think about it! Get a grip, Giok!**bg**

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 08:13 PM

As I was reading down this thread, a name popped into mind that I was going to post. Kat beat me to it. Jean Redpath.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 10:19 PM

Get a grip! Billy Connolly of course.

'Scottish' is a real can of worms.
Race? No Anglo-Saxon, Pict, Irish, or other migrant allowed? That's half of them out.
Or mixed bloods? I went to school with a Glaswegian of half Negro descent. Is he less Scottish than, say, Ewan McColl? Or more?
Upbringing? That makes most sense to me.
Personal inclination? The world is full of wannabees.

By some (oriental) standards, I am a Scotsman, since I was conceived near Loch Lomond, but I'm not petitioning for consideration. Heh heh.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 02:31 AM

I seem to remember Idi Amin was a Scot!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 04:45 AM

Among MacColl's 'not substantial achievements' was a talent for writing songs about England and English topics. (Dirty Old Town, I'm a Rambler, Shoals of Herring, Sweet Thames, Cannily, Cannily.......)I can't think of any songs written by MacColl that suggest 'Scottishness' but I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

Phillip - there's no 'Scottish' passport either.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 04:52 AM

Oh yes there is Terry;) we sent my nieces English boyfriend one after he had misplaced his british oneLOL

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: IanC
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:14 AM

Back to the thread ... I think Burke and Hare must be two of them. Not sure about the other one, though.

;-)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:21 AM

Baillie Nicol Jarvie?
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:22 AM

Guest Terry McDonald, have a listen to ' The Fishgutters Song ' from Singing The Fishing, it's definately totally SCOTTISH.

eric

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:18 AM

Thanks Eric - I suspected someone would know of ones that I don't!

Megan L - would this be similar to the 'Welsh Passports' that you could buy in touristy shops when I lived in Gwent?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: andymac
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:26 AM

Well, speaking as a Scot (albeit currently working in Norway) I have no concerns with Hamish Henderson or Ewan McColl being cited as major Scots cultural icons of the 20th Century. Nor would I necessarily quibble with Hugh MacDiarmid's inclusion either.
But there are so many to choose from: Robin Jenkins, Ken Currie, Neil Gunn, Sorley MacLean and Martyn Bennett to name just a few that have popped into my head. We're fortunate to have had such riches to choose from.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Silver Slug
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:07 AM

Harry Lauder, Frankie Miller & Alex Harvey. Hadrian had the right idea - keep the buggers out!

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:18 AM

The English still got in though didn't they?
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Davie_
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:21 AM

Rab Noakes,Music. Sean Connery for film & Burns for lots and lots

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:15 AM

Lonnie Donnegan

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:21 AM

The Proclaimers

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:28 AM

More than 50 posts, and no one mentioned the three witches? Or Macbeth (he and/or she) for that matter, the third being Don Sinane? Or William McGonagle? Or Robin Hall and Jimmy McGregor? Scott Swhaheyfor, Wally Spledd? Robert the Bruce (and Roberta the Sheila)? Or Alex Ferguson? James Clark Maxwell? Oor ain dear feelosofer David Hume?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM

John Muir

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: redsnapper
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:54 AM

David Hume, Adam Smith, Sir Walter Scott, David Hume, Robert Louis Stevenson, Robert Burns, Robert Tannahill, James Boswell, Bill Shankly, John Buchan, Evelyn Glennie, Neil Gow

...amongst many hundreds of others. I can't choose the three greatest. And this is without even touching the great Scots in the fields of science, medicine and engineering.

RS

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Effsee
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:56 AM

Jock Stein!

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:02 AM

Who?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Effsee
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

Aye right, Giok.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:28 AM

¦¬]

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Greg B
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:39 AM

What about Mel Gibson? :-)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: redsnapper
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM

Indeed Greg... he did defeat the English at Bannockburn after all... (;>)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM

What about the short arsed Australian hypocrite?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM

Way back up there it did mention of the 20th century otherwise RLS would've been one of the first I'd posted.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:45 AM

What about that there fellah with the blue face? Um... Mel sommat?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:49 AM

Papa Smurf gnu.?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:50 AM

any one mentioned Charles Rennie Mackintosh yet?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Mr Happy
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:53 AM

Alastair Sim, Fyfe Robertson, Rory Bremner

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 10:56 AM

Tony Blair

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Emma B
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:01 AM

Giok!!!!

and Ian Rankin gets my vote

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Puck
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 12:57 PM

I think special consideration should be given to Rab C Nesbitt

Pee

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures,
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 01:07 PM

Och jings crivens help ma boab, ah'm ferr keichin' masel wi pleesure, at bein' nummert alang wi they Proclaimers so ah am. People says that listenin' tae them is jist like listenin' tae me, an' they canny unnerstaun a word they say either.
Ah'm no sayin' that ah'm wan o' the greatest Scots o' a' times like, but ah'm the greatest Glaswegian since Chic Murray [may he rest in peace]
Ta fur that pal, an' if ye's want tae come roond fur a mealie pudden and a deep fried Mars bar, ah'm sure Mary doll will spend some o' ma bru money doon the chipper, an' mebbes we kin hae a wee drappie o' Buckie tae wash it doon wi tae.
Ta ta the noo.

Yer pal Rab C.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 01:18 PM

The Krankies

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 01:58 PM

Ewan MacColl was born James (Jimmie) Henry Miller in Salford, Lancashire in England, to Scottish parents, William and Betsy Miller


Gibson is a Scottish name
and he beat the English at Stirling

and what about Oor Wullie Scotland's favourite son? :-)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,McTavish
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM

Macdonalds burgers, kilts & the British Government.

Q. Who invented copper wire?

A. Two jocks arguing over a ha'penny.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 02:28 PM

Belated reply to Terry McDonald;
MacColl was born and brought up in Salford, which makes it fairly logical that he sould write about what he knows best.
Having said which, a number of the Travellers songs were based on his interviews of Scots Travellers, and one of his best songs was, in my opinion, 'The Tenant Farmer' which was entirely Scots in subject and feeling.
Jim Carroll
PS He also did more than any singer I know to popularise the Scots ballads, putting 127 of them back into the repertoire.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: maeve
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:43 PM

For personal impact:

Lizzie Higgins, Jeannie Robertson, Sheila Stewart, Jack Ramsay of Pittenweem and daughter Pat, Archie, Ray, & Cilla Fisher, Ella & Eddie Macgeachy and son Kirk, Flora MacNeil, Dave Goulder, Lily & Charlie of Rosehall, Tony Cuffe, Morag on Skye, John Renbourn, Norman Kennedy, the members of Stravaig...

Just a few of my favorite Scots musicians and friends for the nomination. I refuse to limit it to three! ;-]

maeve

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:21 PM

Thanks to Mickey in another thread, I am reminded of Craig Ferguson!

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM

Jim Carroll - no argument about that, especially about the ballads! It just seems to me that some people choose to identify with their parents' nationality rather than the one they've been born into and grown up with. My father was a sixth generation Newfoundlander but because he settled in England, married here and my brother and I were born here, we simply don't feel as if we're Newfoundlanders, let alone Canadian. Been there five times, but still feel totally English. MacColl's best known work, though, still seems to be his 'English' material which, as you say, is probably to be expected. By the way, did he ever live in Scotland?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Cllr
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 07:53 PM

Earlier somone pointed out in an earlier post that Gibson is a scottish name (it is in origin)My last name is Gibson which is a sept of the Clan Buchanan, of lot of the english Gibson family followed the fishing down the east coast of england, my grandparents were scottish i still have cousins who run a hotel in Inverness

I am proud of my scottish heritage, interestingly enough asian and black ethnic minorities who identify with the culture and have lived in scotland for a couple of generations are known as new scots (its a non perjorative title)
its difficult to define a culture as one thing becuase a culture is made up of diifferent strands and so means different things to different people.
however i would make one observation that while many people claim with pride their scottish ancestry and how they are half scottish I have never heard of a scottish person proudly proclaiming to be half english.
cllr

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM

Right, the thread is about the three greatest Scottish cultural figures:

Without doubt the greatest is Robert Burns - a giant

Second is Sir Walter Scot

Problem comes with the third:

James Hogg - "The Ettrick Shepard"

Roy Williamsom and/or Ronnie Brown

But - Please - Please - Shir Shean Fuckin' Connery - Hells teeth what the fuck has he ever had to do with Scottish culture? Absolutely sweet damn all - sulked for years for a knighthood from a country he purportedly wishes to distance himself from. Lives in tax exile abroad while he spouts about things that will result in things that he, or any of his family, will never have to live under - the guy, as a Scot, is a complete and utter tosser. Get real.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:03 PM

Gotta admit - he was one helluva James Bond, though!

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Effsee
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:36 PM

Maeve, much as I admire his songs, dykes, and singing...Dave Goulder? Scots? Puhhhleeese! Even he would laugh at that.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:43 PM

I thought this was about recent people.

If it wasn't, I'd like to nominate Robert Louis Stevenson.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: maeve
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:50 PM

Effsee- Fair enough, Dave would indeed laugh at the thought.

However, his life in Scotland and his writing and singing about the land, his deep understanding of the way a drystone wall must work with the landscape and the physics of that landscape, and his generosity of spirit (not to mention of his enjoyment of the "water of life") have become firmly entrenched in my experience of all that I love about the places and people of Scotland.

I've never minded giving my friends a reason to laugh, anyroad!

maeve ;)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 03:10 AM

Terry,
No, MacColl never lived in Scotland, he was born three months after his parents moved to Salford. Both his parents (mother from Perthshire, father from Falkirk) were singers and it was this that influenced his early interest in singing.
(Quote from D G Bridson's book on the BBC 'Prospero and Ariel):
"MacColl had been out busking for pennies by the Manchester theatres and cinemas. The songs he sang were unusual, Scots songs, Gaelic songs he had learned from his mother, border ballads and folk songs......"
That was in 1931.
MacColl's influences were Scots, and looking down the list of his songs, both self-composed and researched from the tradition, I find it hard to name any revival singer who has done more to introduce audiences to the Scottish repertoire in its entirety.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 03:35 AM

Fair enough, Jim. He was of my earliest influences - I still have my Shuttle and Cage, and Come all You Bold Sportsman LPs, plus some of the Ballad ones. I just don't see him as a Scot in the way that most of those put forward in this thread are. But if others do, especially Scots, then so be it.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:53 AM

Dick Gaughan, Iain Banks and my dad.

By the way, Brendan Behan said, "If you're born in England and grow up in England, you're English." -Borstal Boy. So MacColl is English ...not that it really matters. He would be a great figure in our music whatever his ethnicity.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:46 AM

The Corries, Alex Salmond and George Galloway

the last two are great because they are not afraid to speak their minds, and stop picking on Philip, the poor guy.

Tom

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 06:53 AM

Well, Brendan Behan may have said that, but the Duke of Wellington said that being born in a kennel doesn't prove you are a dog. I reckon Ewan McColl was Scottish, just as as his fellow Mancunian, Lloyd George, was Welsh.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:02 AM

Absolutely, Penguin Egg. Greg - I reckon it's the 'where you were brought up' bit that's important, but everyone will believe what they want to.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:31 AM

Well Tom I never thought I'd hear the word culture coupled with the name of that wee publicity seeking nyaff George Galloway!
G

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:34 AM

Actually, McColl was English and Scottish. perfectly possible to be both.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Ariel
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:41 AM

If it's cultural icons we're after, my vote is definitely for Rab C Nesbitt, wee Jimmie Krankie and Ronald McDonald.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 07:56 AM

Damn! Ariel beat me to it! Well, with the first two anyway. Everyone knows that Ronald McDonald isn't realy Scottish - unless you mean the Lord in Lizie Linsey.

My third vote would have gone to Taggart. No-one can say 'There's bin a murrrrder' they way he does:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Fudged
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 08:59 AM

My first post on Mudcat! (so be gentle with me)
Too many to choose from 'cos I'd want Hamish Henderson, Sorley MacLean, Norman McCaig and countless others in there.
So my votes go to...
Martyn Bennet, Martyn Bennett's pipes, Martyn Bennett's fiddle

xx

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:05 AM

I just Like George Galloway because he is not afriad to tell the truth and there are quiate a number of people don't like hearing the truth.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:25 AM

Suspended from the House of Commons for 18 days for lying. George only deals in the truth when it suits him. I'm sorrry Tom but as a Scot, I'm ashamed of him and his posturing.
Giok

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:29 AM

that's all right I just like him and you don't anyway let's agree to disagree. ok I agree he can be an arsehole but so can we all sometimes

Here's a thiEwan MacColl
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Ewan MacColl (25 January 1915 - 22 October 1989) was a British folk singer, songwriter, socialist, actor, poet, playwright, and record producer. He was the father of Kirsty MacColl.

[edit] Early history
MacColl was born James (Jimmie) Henry Miller in Salford, Lancashire in England, to Scottish parents, William and Betsy Miller. He left school in 1929, joined the Young Communist League and the socialist amateur theatre troupe, the Clarion Players. He began his career as a writer helping produce, and contributing humorous verse and skits to some of the Communist Party's factory papers. He was an activist in the unemployed workers campaigns and the mass trespasses of the early 1930s. One of his best-known songs, "The Manchester Rambler", was written after the pivotal mass trespass of Kinder Scout. He was responsible for publicity in the planning of the trespass.

In 1932 the British intelligence service, MI5, opened a file on MacColl, after the Chief Constable of Salford told them that the singer was a Communist Party member. For a time the Special Branch kept a watch on the Manchester home that he shared with his wife Joan Littlewood. MI5 caused some of MacColl's songs to be banned from the BBC, and blocked the employment of Joan Littlewood as a BBC children's programme presenter.

MacColl enlisted in the Army in July 1940, but deserted in December. Why he did so, and why he was not prosecuted when he re-surfaced after the war, remain a mystery.


[edit] Acting career
In 1931, with other unemployed members of the Clarion Players he formed an agit-prop group, the Red Megaphones. In 1934 they changed the name to Theatre of Action and not long after were introduced to a young actress recently moved up from London. This was Joan Littlewood who became Miller's wife and work partner.

In 1936, after a failed attempt to relocate to London, the couple returned to Manchester, and formed Theatre Union. In 1940 a performance of The Last Edition - a 'living newspaper' - was halted by the police and Miller and Littlewood were bound over for two years for 'breach of the peace'. The necessities of wartime brought an end to Theatre Union.

In 1946 members of Theatre Union and others formed Theatre Workshop and spent the next few years touring, mostly in the north of England. Jimmie Miller had by then changed his name to Ewan MacColl. In Theatre Union roles had been shared but now, in Theatre Workshop, they were more formalised. Littlewood was the sole producer and MacColl the dramaturge, art director and resident dramatist.

The techniques that had been developed in Theatre Union now were refined, producing the distinctive form of theatre which was the hallmark of Joan Littlewood's Theatre Workshop as the troupe was later known. They were an impoverished travelling troupe, but were making a name for themselves.


[edit] Music
In this period MacColl's enthusiasm for folk music grew. In 1953 Theatre Workshop opted to settle in Stratford, London, and MacColl, who was opposed to the move, left and began to concentrate on the promotion and performance of folk music. His long involvement with Topic Records was first obvious in 1950 when he released a single "The Asphalter's Song" on the label.

As well as writing and performing, MacColl followed in the footsteps of his colleague Alan Lomax and collected traditional ballads. Over the years he recorded upwards of a hundred albums, many with English folk song collector and singer A.L. Lloyd. The two together released a series of eight records of the Child Ballads, many of which appeared on his other albums. MacColl also produced a number of LPs with Irish singer songwriter Dominic Behan.

In 1956, MacColl caused a scandal by leaving his then second wife, Jean Newlove, the mother of his children, Hamish and Kirsty, for Peggy Seeger, who was many years his junior. It was for her that he wrote the classic, "The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face". The song was written at Seeger's request for a play she was in. He wrote it on the spot and taught it to her over the phone.[1] This song became a #1 hit for Roberta Flack in 1972; MacColl won the Grammy Award for Song of the Year for it, while Flack won the Record of the Year award for it.

His other best-known song is "Dirty Old Town", written about his home town of Salford in Lancashire. It was written to cover an awkward scene change in his play "Landscape with Chimneys" (1949), but with the growing popularity of folk music the song became a standard, part of many a singer's repertoire. Recordings include The Spinners (1964), The Dubliners (1968), Rod Stewart (1969), the Pogues (1985), Simple Minds (2003), Ted Leo and the Pharmacists (2003), and Frank Black (2006).

Among his other songs was The Ballad of Ho Chi Minh (1954), which is rather famous in Vietnam.


[edit] Radio
MacColl had been a radio actor since 1933. By the late thirties he was scripting as well. In 1957 producer Charles Parker asked MacColl to collaborate in the creation of a feature programme about the heroic death of train driver John Axon. Normal procedure would have been to use the recorded field interviews only as source for writing the script. MacColl produced a script that incorporated the actual voices and so created a new form that they called the radio ballad.

Between 1957 and 1964, eight of these were broadcast by the BBC, all created by the team of MacColl and Parker together with Peggy Seeger who handled musical direction. MacColl wrote the scripts and the songs, as well as, with the others, collecting the field recordings which were the heart of the productions.


[edit] Songwriting
Seeger and MacColl recorded several albums of searing political commentary songs. MacColl himself wrote over 300 songs, some of which have been recorded by artists (in addition to those mentioned above) such as Planxty, The Dubliners, Dick Gaughan, The Clancy Brothers, Elvis Presley, Weddings Parties Anything, and Johnny Cash. In 2001, The Essential Ewan MacColl Songbook was published, which includes the words and music to 200 of his songs.

There is a plaque dedicated to MacColl in Russell Square in London. The inscription includes: "Presented by his communist friends 25.1.1990 ... Folk Laureate - Singer - Dramatist - Marxist ... in recognition of strength and singleness of purpose of this fighter for Peace and Socialism". In 1991 he was awarded a posthumous honorary degree by the University of Salford.

His daughter from his second marriage, Kirsty MacColl, followed him into a musical career, albeit less traditionally. Kirsty MacColl was killed in an accident in Mexico in 2000.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:34 AM

as a Scot, there is one thing I don't lke and that is his stand on the 'union' I want Scotland to be free and he doesn't however that is up to him.

Anyway what has this got to do with Three greatest Scottish cultural figures, George Galloway is an arsehole but as i said we are all arseholes sometimes. I just don't want to argue with you

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 09:48 AM

Another McColl classic, unaccountably missing from the wikipedia article, is his timeless "Ballad of Jo Stalin".

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 10:07 AM

I have met many Scotsmen over the years, great fellas all. None more so than Alex Campbell.

The funniest comedian in the world, ever, was a Scotsman - Chic Murray.

The funniest newspaper cartoon ever was Scottish - Loaby Dosser.

The most Spring-heeled Jack of a footballer I ever saw was a Scotsman - Dennis Law.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: goatfell
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:04 AM

And the most funny comedian is Gordon Brown jings Crivens help ma boab

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:10 AM

Leaving aside judgements of "greatness" etc, the bloke I was very fond of, and was sorriest to miss, was guitarist Peerie Willie Johnston.
burl: thanks for remembering Alex Campbell, surprised nobody's mentioned him before.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 01:47 PM

Maw Broon she did long suffering wife before marge simpson was even a storyboard.

Matt Maginn

and El Fideldo the only twa legged horse tae hiv her ain staue

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:16 PM

Now, who could not love a fellah tha was a dog fancier.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 05:18 PM

Oh, I know he was born in Canada, but he was born to Scots immigrants... so, it's YOUR fault!

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Betsy
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 03:25 PM

Dick Gaughan, Iain McGillivray and Rab C.Nesbitt

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 04:57 AM

Matt McGinn, Edwin Morgan, Eduardo Paolozzi.
One for luck, Jack Vettriano.

Giok

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Jim Lad
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 12:28 PM

Oor Wullie, Daphne & Big Hen.