Three greatest Scottish cultural figures

Subject: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:13 PM

Three greatest Scottish cultural figures of the 20th century:

Hugh MacDiarmid, Ewan MacColl, Hamish Henderson... and Sean Connery.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:14 PM

Your point is? oh and learn to count.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM

I'll vote for Megan, Giok and Megan.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:19 PM

And of course, Ewan McColl [aka Jimmy miller] wasn't a Scot
Giok

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:21 PM

& Robert Burns was an Aussie

Barry

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:21 PM

Sounds a bit Scot's name, though.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:27 PM

My point is to elicit people's opinion.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:28 PM

Both MacColl's parents were Scottish. If he had been born in China would that have made him Chinese?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM

I can count. I chose to make an apparently ill judged attempt at jocularity (sic).

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:30 PM

Yes

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:34 PM

You lie, you lie, so loud I hear you lie.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:34 PM

My son was born in England of Scots parents, he's still English by birth, and British by nationality.
Hugh McDairmid was another one masquerading under an assumed name too BTW.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:42 PM

Sean Connery, Jimmy Shand, and that Dundee Beano and Dandy bloke.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:47 PM

Was Scrooge McDuck Scottish?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

As Scottish as Tony Blair

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Tootler
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM

And I was born in Aberdeen of an English Father and a Scots Mother, so what does that make me - apart from a mongrel that is :-)

I am equally proud of my English and Scots Heritage.

Ewan MacColl or Jimmy Miller if you prefer, obviously discovered his Scots heritage and took pride in it. Nothing wrong with that. This seems to me yet another unjustified swipe at MacColl rather than celebrating his not unsubstantial achievements.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:57 PM

My wife is Scottish, I'm English, our children were born in England. Try telling her her children aren't half Scottish, and you won't get far, Giok!

Christopher Murray Grieve, James Henry Miller. Both good Scots names, but not as euphonious or distinctive (or as arty farty either, perhaps) as the ones they chose to work under. Where is the masquerade? That word, to me at least, implies deception. A lot of artists choose different names to work under. (Did Richard Starkey masquerade, for one? Or Robert Sutherland for another?) Were MacDiarmid's literary achievement less than his son's (also Christopher Grieve) because the latter worked under his own name?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:57 PM

Andy Stewart, Chic Murray and Jimmy Krankie

LFF

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 03:58 PM

No Tootler, not one word was said against his achievements which I too admire, I even named my aforementioned son after him. Please don't assume that just because I mention the fact about his name change that I am agin the man's works.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:05 PM

So far, Sean Connery is winning, with two votes, although maybe mine doesn't count as I named four. So it's a draw as half-time approaches, unless we go to the video referee... Who is an Irishman by the name of Viddy O'Referee.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:08 PM

Phillip you are confusing birth nationality with cultural identity. My son lives and works in the USA, and my grandson was born there, so he is an American, and entitled to a US passport too I believe.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:14 PM

No, I'm not confused at all. This thread was meant to be about culture, not passports. MacColl was a Scot. There is no English passport, and (I believe) no English nationality in law. Being born here did not therefore make him English. American law is irrelevant to this idea.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:16 PM

He wasn't born in Scotland, ergo he is NOT a Scot

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Phillip
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM

OK, you've convinced me with those capital letters. If the level of your argumentation is so strong I may as well give up. (It was Ringo and Robert Garioch, by the way, and the answer you didn't supply was no, Christopher Grieve is not a greater writer than his father.)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:25 PM

They fade into insignificance when viewed against George Makay Brown,J. Storer Clouston and Robert Rendall.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:34 PM

Take your pick
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Seán Báite
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:41 PM

Where the f@@k is James Kelman in that lot, Giok ?? ...
big shaggin oversight...
Or did he simply chin the photographer before the flash went off ??

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:48 PM

Yes it is an eclectic collection, no Lewis Grassick Gibbon either I notice. Another fine writer.
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:27 PM

No RLS there either, maybe this is why..."This site features a selection of leading Scottish writers, photographed in a 30-year period by Edinburgh publisher and photographer Gordon Wright."

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:28 PM

I'm ashamed to admit that the only Scottish cultural figure who has been mentioned in this thread thus far and who is familiar to me is Sean Connery and Robert Burns {notice that I wtote Sean Connery's name first}.

I opened this thread to learn more about Scottish culture and I ntend to look up the names of those other persons who have been mentioned.

But if you're being facetious, how about this immortal Scottish hero ?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:40 PM

With all that to choose from gnu picks Giok and Megan....WOT????

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:51 PM

Gnu is a gentleman who is nice to those he thinks of as friends. Considering his genepool is French Irish Canadian he did well to know any Scots.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Francy
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 07:00 PM

Dick Gaughan

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 07:33 PM

Jean Redpath

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 07:45 PM

Ian Rankin, Bert Jansch, Glen Livet and Dougie Maclean, and theres hundred of the buggers.... Alex Harvey, Robin Williamson, Alexander Trocchi

anyway theres more than three

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM

Alba...this life AND she WAS the definitive Scottish heroine in a past life in the 20th century! Think about it! Get a grip, Giok!**bg**

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 08:13 PM

As I was reading down this thread, a name popped into mind that I was going to post. Kat beat me to it. Jean Redpath.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Gurney
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 10:19 PM

Get a grip! Billy Connolly of course.

'Scottish' is a real can of worms.
Race? No Anglo-Saxon, Pict, Irish, or other migrant allowed? That's half of them out.
Or mixed bloods? I went to school with a Glaswegian of half Negro descent. Is he less Scottish than, say, Ewan McColl? Or more?
Upbringing? That makes most sense to me.
Personal inclination? The world is full of wannabees.

By some (oriental) standards, I am a Scotsman, since I was conceived near Loch Lomond, but I'm not petitioning for consideration. Heh heh.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 02:31 AM

I seem to remember Idi Amin was a Scot!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 04:45 AM

Among MacColl's 'not substantial achievements' was a talent for writing songs about England and English topics. (Dirty Old Town, I'm a Rambler, Shoals of Herring, Sweet Thames, Cannily, Cannily.......)I can't think of any songs written by MacColl that suggest 'Scottishness' but I'd be happy to be proved wrong!

Phillip - there's no 'Scottish' passport either.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 04:52 AM

Oh yes there is Terry;) we sent my nieces English boyfriend one after he had misplaced his british oneLOL

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: IanC
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:14 AM

Back to the thread ... I think Burke and Hare must be two of them. Not sure about the other one, though.

;-)

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:21 AM

Baillie Nicol Jarvie?
G.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 05:22 AM

Guest Terry McDonald, have a listen to ' The Fishgutters Song ' from Singing The Fishing, it's definately totally SCOTTISH.

eric

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:18 AM

Thanks Eric - I suspected someone would know of ones that I don't!

Megan L - would this be similar to the 'Welsh Passports' that you could buy in touristy shops when I lived in Gwent?

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: andymac
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:26 AM

Well, speaking as a Scot (albeit currently working in Norway) I have no concerns with Hamish Henderson or Ewan McColl being cited as major Scots cultural icons of the 20th Century. Nor would I necessarily quibble with Hugh MacDiarmid's inclusion either.
But there are so many to choose from: Robin Jenkins, Ken Currie, Neil Gunn, Sorley MacLean and Martyn Bennett to name just a few that have popped into my head. We're fortunate to have had such riches to choose from.

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Silver Slug
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:07 AM

Harry Lauder, Frankie Miller & Alex Harvey. Hadrian had the right idea - keep the buggers out!

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:18 AM

The English still got in though didn't they?
G ¦¬]

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Davie_
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 08:21 AM

Rab Noakes,Music. Sean Connery for film & Burns for lots and lots

Subject: RE: Three greatest Scottish cultural figures
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 09:15 AM

Lonnie Donnegan