BS: Something I learned about shotguns.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: The Walrus
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 06:18 AM

Just to be silly:-
Before Michael Ryan went ape in Hungerford and gave Thatchler her chance to pass a disarming act, a friend of mine* had an ex-British Army Vickers Machine Gun converted to semi-automatic, in 7.92 mmm** calibre, with a smoothbored barrel held on a shotgun licence.
Ah well, very little chance of that being used in a bank job!.

It's all in the way the rules are interpreted

W


* A re-enactor
* It went from the British to the Israeli Army, fairly early on.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: Peace
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 04:33 AM

"Something I learned about shotguns."

'Tis better to give than receive.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 01:26 AM

It's bound to be confusing. The "system" was created by the Brits a very long time ago - If I understand it as I think I do.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: frogprince
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 12:00 AM

Ayyee....yuh; as John immediately noticed, I really slipped into confusing apples and coconuts. I really don't remember putting any one-pound shells in either Dad's old 12 gauge pump or the 16 gauge I had for awhile. Never actually fired anything but birdshot in a shotgun in my life, and haven't fired one in many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 10:41 PM

frogprince -

I think perhaps you're mixing two different things.

A 12 ga is sized so that twelve spherical lead balls the diameter of the bore of the barrel will weigh 1 pound. Another way of looking at it is that one lead ball the same diameter as the bore is 1/12 pound. A 10 ga is larger, so only 10 balls the diameter of a 10 ga are required to make a pound (with each ball being 1/10 pound).

There are relatively few 10 gauge guns around in my area, although they were much more popular some years ago, especially while black powder was still fairly common. They may still be used more elsewhere. 12 ga guns are by far the most common here, but my understanding is that smaller bores (larger numbered gauges) are more popular in places with less open hunting space.

The number of pellets (shot) loaded in a typical shell for a given bore size varies with the size of the pellets, but pellet size is to a different "system." Smaller numbers indicate larger pellets, but none of the common ones are larger than a "BB."

For "birdshot" - where the shot pellets are small enough to pour into the shell, if you subtract the "size number" from 17, the remainder is the diameter of a pellet in hundredths of an inch. For #6 shot, 17 - 6 = 11, so a pellet is 0.11" in diameter (APPROXIMATELY). For "buckshot" sizes that have to be "stacked" into the shell, a slightly different formula is used.

Commonly available shells also come in several lengths, with variations from about 2-5/8" up to 3" long (rarely to 3.5"), and of course the longer ones can hold a few more pellets of the same size along with more powder than the short ones. Increasing the total weight of the shot and the amount of powder to push it both lead to higher pressures, and for this reason some care in using only the appropriate shell lengths is required. You can't (safely) use a shell longer than the one a particular gun is intended for, although it is possible to use a shorter one of the proper gauge in many guns. (Some auto-feed guns are a bit finicky about the shell length, even if they might stand up to the pressures of "deviant" loads.)

It's also possible to leave out a few pellets in order to increase the amount of powder and theoretically at least to obtain higher velocity for the fewer pellets used. Within reason, this doesn't usually change the peak pressure by too much, but caution is advised if you're inclinded to "experiment." Some "different" loads are commercially available, or can be hand-loaded, but not too many variant loads are commonly used, so far as I've heard.

Especially since the advent of non-toxic (lead-free) shot, it's no longer possible to generalize absolutely that a shell of xx ga with #yy shot has exactly q pellets, although there's usually not a lot of variation. For a while after lead shot was outlawed for most hunting (in the US), much larger numbers of shot pellets for the lighter steel shot was common. The development of tungsten and tungsten/copper shot that approximates the density of lead has brought the "pellet counts" back down to close to levels that were common with lead, but there are still a few shell types that pack more or fewer pellets of a given size into the case. The label on the box the shells came in is the best way to resolve a debate about a particular shell, although you can also of course cut one open and count them.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 09:15 PM

Never use any more force than is necessary...

Yeah, the 12 guage is fine if you need that *much* force...

And I own a nice 12 guage pump but...

... fir the needs I have here on my farm my 22/410 over/under is all that most situations require...

Plus, it's light... It's accurate... And extra ammo fits under a flip-up plate in the stock...

Tell ya what... I can kill a deer with it or a pesky groundhog...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: kendall
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 08:59 PM

Never liked the look of an over under.
00 buckshot has 9 balls in a 12 guage
0 buckshot has 12 as I recall.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 08:35 PM

I'd never learned how gauge was determined; I just thought it was an odd way of classifying the bore diameter. The 12 balls in a twelve gauge would have to be of the correct buckshot spec. My understanding was that with single-0 there would be less in a 12 gauge; what size gives you the number to match the gauge?

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:23 PM

Gee... I just looked and they don't sell a double trigger anymore... mine is a double... i like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 04:18 PM

THE best shotgun on the face of the earth.... A 12, full and modified.

Now, I ain't taken any debate on this. My Bro is a World Champ Skeeter and his $11,000+ custom made Browning can't keep up with me in heavy cover. I use to take upland eyes on a dead run through the "one by ones". Them's one inch diameter pines one inch apart.

BTW.... that one on the link is one of the new ones and is near 8 pound. Fine weapon. However, mine is vintage and weighs in at 6.75 pounds. But, I have put 1500+ rounds through her and she's still mint. And fookin deadly. Even black on standing shoulder at 100m with rifled slugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:52 PM

Handguns are fun to shoot at a target. It's a whole different technique from a long gun. I sure as hell would not want to fire either one at another human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: kendall
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:49 PM

My favorite weapon is a double barrel Parker shotgun, but they are a pig to store in my pocket.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: Midchuck
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 03:05 PM

I replied, "Demonstrating that I do not use handguns of any sort and never will, sir." I passed.

Too bad. They're fun. Unless someone is shooting one at you, or trying to. Then they're no fun at all, but that's when you really need one.

Or so they say. That's a part of life I've missed out on. You can imagine how that saddens me.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: gnu
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:59 PM

Them ain't shotguns... them's cannons. Puntguns is cannons. all in your terminology, I suppose. By the way 3refs, I bought the book and took the test myself. Too bad the authors didn't take the time or have the knowledge to get everything right in the text. There are a few blatant errors... no, I can't recall.

I do, however, recall the test. I was asked to pick up a revolver and load it with the correct ammo. Done. Then, I was asked something like demonstrating how I would deal with it on a firing range. I unloaded it and laid it back on the table. The invigilator asked me what I was doing. I replied, "Demonstrating that I do not use handguns of any sort and never will, sir." I passed.

Subject: RE: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:44 PM

And the largest bore for a cartridge shotgun was 1 1/2 gauge. But the larger gauges are illegal, now ( in the US. ) They used to have 3, 4, and 6 gauge, mostly for commercia hunting. ( waterbirds) See Puntguns.

Subject: BS: Something I learned about shotguns.
From: 3refs
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 02:30 PM

I understand that many see no need for firearms, so I guess this won't be for you!
I upgraded my firearms license here in Canada, so I had to pass another test. I didn't have to attend a course, I was able to "challenge the exam". I just wanted to refresh my memory on a few of the little things, so I borrowed a course guide and spent a few days learning the new stuff, confirming the obvious and remembering the things that are not worth remembering, flintlocks and cannons. Or so I thought!
When I was reading up on ammunition and I was kind of shocked when I read how shotgun gauges are measured. I thought that it was the kind of knowledge that I would have retained, like the sun rises in the east kind of thing! So I'm kind of leaning towards "I never knew".
How many lead balls does it take to make up one pound and that's your gauge. 10 balls=10 gauge, 20 balls=20 gauge. The only one that doesn't fit this guide is the .410, it's a calibre.