BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama

Subject: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:33 AM

Michelle Obama introduced her husband introduced her husband, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, at a campaign stop in western Iowa
with this absolutely stunning speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNuqLsOiZ5o
{video}

Added to YouTube August 16, 2007 ; From: ScarceTV

Here's my rough summary of this speech:
Before she introduced her husband to the audience, Michelle Obama talked about how folks have shared with her their fear that her husband would be targeted and hurt because he is a Black man running for President of the USA. She said that she and Barack had talked at length about his running for President, and while she shares those concerns that others have voiced, and while she would rather have her husband home with her & their beautiful two girls, she agreed to make the sacrifice that is involved with him running for President and becoming President because she is "tired of living in fear". Michelle than said that for too long people in this country have been living in fear. It's time for a change.

**
I believe that this speech is absolutely as great as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr's "I have a dream" speech.

By googling "Michelle Obama" I'm Tired Of Being Afriad" I see that this speech is all over the blogosphere. Here's another link to along with viewer comments:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/08/17/michelle-obama-embraces-her-husbands-campaign/?eref=ib_politicalticker

Does anyone know if a transcript of this speech is available yet online? If so, would you please post the URL?

I started this thread to alert Mudcat members and guests to this eloquent speech.

I agree with Michelle Obama that I'm tired of being afraid.

What about you?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:35 AM

Michelle Obama's "I'm tired of being afraid" refrain reminds me of Fannie Lou Hamer's now famous comment: "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired".

Fannnie Lou Hamer said these words at the 1964 Democratic convention which was held that year in my hometown of Atlantic City, New Jersey. Mrs. Hamer was a spokesperson for a delegation of the newly formed Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party (MFDP)that came to the convention to challenge the seating of the all-white Mississippi delegation on the grounds that it didn't fairly represent all the people of Mississippi, since most black people hadn't been allowed to vote.

Click http://www.beejae.com/hamer.htm for more information on Fannie Lou Hamer.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Alice
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:43 AM

Azizi, thanks for posting this info. Inspiring.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:47 AM

Here is a big correction to the summary that I made of Michelle Obama's speech:

Before she introduced her husband to the audience, Michelle Obama talked about how folks have shared with her their fear that her husband might be targeted and hurt because he is a Black man running for President of the USA.

**

I believe that words have power, and I don't want to add any energy to that possibility.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 11:19 AM

Here's part of it:

Washington -- Michelle Obama told Iowa voters Thursday that her desire not to have her children grow up in a "fear" based society was enough for her to fully embrace her husband's quest for White House.

"The reason why I said yes was because I am tired of being afraid," she told voters at a campaign stop in Council Bluffs. "I am tired of living in a country where every decision that we've made over the last 10 years wasn't for something but it was because people told us we have to fear something."

"I am so tired of fear and I don't want my girls to live in a country, in a world based on fear," she added.

This is the latest insight Obama has given about supporting her husband's, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama's, bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

The senator's wife, who has taken on an important surrogate role in the campaign, appeared with him in this western Iowa town and introduced him to supporters.

"Whenever I get in front of an audience, I get pumped up because I'm very passionate about this race," she said. "I'm passionate about my husband in this race because I know that and I'm trying to convey to all of you that there is something very special about this man."

I, too, believe in the power of words. To that end, I would remind Mrs. Obama and others to be careful about how they use the "I AM." When we declare "I am" whatever, then we can create that condition in our lives, whether you believe in a deity or not, our subconscious has no discernment between positive and negative and will work to manifest that which we input. So, if I were her, I would rephrase, i.e. "I feel tired, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 11:35 AM

A very wise and interesting take on the bush administration. We invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because the administration created an atmosphere of fear bordering on panic throughout the country. Fear of weapons of mass destruction. Fear of terrorists next door. Fear that our way of life was about to be destroyed.

This same atmosphere of fear has created watchdogs including our mailmen to keep authorities informed.

Whenever political scandals get too hot to handle out comes a terrorist threat to distract us and send us off to the hardware store for plastic wrap and duct tape.

I think Michelle Obama's speech was carefully worded to get people nodding their heads in her husband's direction - we are all sick of being told we are afraid.

Well done.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: pdq
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 11:40 AM

"...Michelle Obama's speech was carefully worded to get people nodding their heads in her husband's direction"

At least one line in SINSULL's post is true.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 11:41 AM

"We invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because the administration created an atmosphere of fear..."

Maybe true of Iraq, but I disagree about Afghanistan. That was pure retalition.

Funny. I wonder how close the proximity between this statement and her husband's threat to bomb Pakistan?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 01:10 PM

John, John, John...

"..threat to bomb Pakistan?"

Kinda an over-the-top interpretation, I'd say... The possibility of a surgercal strike ain't exactly like bombing Pakistan...

MiziAzizi,

I'm just in fir a 15 minute break but will read the entire speech later... If Ms. Obama's speech is anywhere close to that of Dr. King's it should make fir some good reading... I have a very worn copy of "Testament of Hope" which contains most of Dr. Kings speeches and writings... It's close to 700 pages and it's all very, very good...

Ahhhh, yeah.... I do have concerns about Obama being a target but less because he is black but more because he represents the progressive movement... The last time the pendulum swung toward progrssive thought (and policy) the movement's leaders were assasinated... That does scare me... There are folks in this country who will do whatever it takes to take down a progressive leader...

Tell me again why James Earl Ray killed Dr. King??? Or Sarhan Sauhan killed Bobby Kennedy??? There were no apparent motives... Yes, that bothers me...

Back to work...

Later,

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM

That is a fine speech, Azizi, and her point about fear is right on.

People here, however, will react to it precisely according to their prior prejudices for or against Bush administration policy. Note the responses so far....

There are always those who will enthusiastically support a policy based on fear, because they believe that that fear is fully justified. And that is what a government that uses fear depends upon in garnering support among its electorate.

I share Bobert's concerns about what might happen to anyone who becomes a genuine progressive leader in the USA. Too much money is at stake to allow such people to mess with national policy...

Anyway, I share your opinion of Michelle Obama's speech, Azizi. I do not think that the powers that be are going to let Barack Obama become the Democratic Party's candidate for president. But I may be wrong about that. We'll have to wait and see. My impression is that they want Hillary for some reason....and if that's what they want, that's probably what they'll get. They might, in that case, have Obama as her running mate.

But I'm just guessing.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 05:13 PM

I guess the question is really "Is Hillary white enough?"

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM

People must talk about the fear factor of racism, and it is about 90% of what racism is. About 7% is a desire to have grandchildren who look like you and about 3% is ignorance. I made up those statistics but I think it is about accurate. White people do not viscerally understand the fear that Black people have endured and still endure because they (white) are so afraid themselves (ourselves). There is a huge unspoken fear of retribution. There is a fear of gangs and thugs on both sides. There are other people of course in the equation, multiracial people, people of all ethnic groups. And we all have the right to be afraid and to protect ourselves, without hurting others. Good for Michele. I think she would be an outstanding first lady. And domestically, I would love to see Barack as president. I have doubts internationally. But I do not think he should be Hillary's VP. She is shady if you ask me, not that you did, and he would be forever linked with her. Another cabinet post,    perhaps Education, would be better.

I think we need him. We need his wife. Things need to be discussed, but everyone is afraid of that too...especially on a place that is open to everyone. mg

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 05:19 PM

I absolutely and positively agree with Michele that we need to not ask that question. It is the ugliest question to come down the road since was Kennedy going to be ruled by the pope, and I would say uglier. We must not perpetuate it. What does that say to Creole people, and Metis, and "half-beeds", pardon the expression. To everyone of mixed race, some of which was not by voluntary mating. Like Michele O. says, it hurts the children, many of whom these days have multiple heritages. The press should stop asking that, politicians should stop asking that. I would say How Dare You Ask That if I were running. But then I would lose a few votes. mg

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Nickhere
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 05:23 PM

"Michelle than said that for too long people in this country have been living in fear. It's time for a change"


Indeed they do, but I doubt Barak Obama will make much difference - he seems to have a similar policy on the Middle East and he wants to extend the war into Pakistans border area, as if there aren't enough people dying already. It's a fine thank you for the help Pakistan's given the Bush admin. Barak will probably make a big deal of being black - Michelle Obama is already making some capital of the fact as seen above. But let's see what his ideas are, what kind of man he is.....

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Nickhere
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 05:27 PM

Bobert - "The possibility of a surgercal strike ain't exactly like bombing Pakistan..."


A 'surgical strike' is just a euphemism the military came up with to make people think they can drop a bomb on the bad guy's head and no-one else gets hurt - even the plaster on the house next door is left intact etc etc., Anyone on the receiving end of a 'surgical strike' - like those dead at Qana - would tell you it's just another word for being bombed - if they could. Of course, they can't because they are dead.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 07:24 PM

Yeah, okay, Nick... Point well taken but John's wording implies something more like "carpet bombing" which I don't think Obama advocates...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 08:08 PM

"but John's wording implies something more like "carpet bombing""

How does it imply that, Bobert?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 08:23 PM

I think if we were to ask 100 people who had no opinion on Obama if they thought that Obama's statements on foriegn policy amounted to a "threat to bomb Pakistan" that you'd find less than 10 percent that would make such a blanket statement in interpreing what Obama has actually said... Your wording is meant to establish a line in the sand that you can later fall back on if it isn't challenged... I challenge your wording... It might work with Rush Limbasugh but that dog won't hunt here...

MiziAzzizi,

Alas... I have tried to Google the speech and have also clicked on your link but the entire speech is beyond my pea-shooter dail up...

But from what I have been able to gleen from a couple news reports it would appear that the spech was given from the hip... I like that...

Actually, I like Michelle Obama...

I think she would make a great president but, hey, I still have a "Chisholm for President" bumper stciker on my old guitar case...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 08:30 PM

You didn't even come close to answering my question. How did I imply "carpet bombing"? Ask your 100 people. Ask a 1000. How did I imply "carpet bombing"?

...and what does Rush Limbaugh have to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 08:51 PM

Okay, John, seein' as you don't have a clue as to how you have gone about mis-framing what Obame has said...

What if I were to say that that Putin said that he was going to "bomb the US"... How would ***you*** interpret that??? Or if Bush said that he was going to bomb Russia...

Based on history when one makes the statement that they are going to "bomb" someone, they bomb the heck out of them... So for you interpret what Obama said, keeping in mind the historical implications, as "bombing Pakistan" is nothin' but political "framing"...

I know that you know **exactly*** what I am saying here as well as others who have read what you originally poested... You can play games around it but it doesn't change what I, an probably 90% of anyone reading this thread, see as a highly partisan snipe at Obama...

You can't get away with this here...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 09:25 PM

Here's an article that has more excerpts from Michelle Obama's "Tired of being afraid" speech. This article includes additional comments from Mrs. Obama about her husband's presidential campaign:


"Harvard-educated lawyer Michelle Obama says she never imagined herself in Council Bluffs, Iowa, pumping up a crowd of supporters on a hot August day.

But the 43-year-old Chicago mother of two and former corporate lawyer has thrown herself into the campaign to get her husband Barack elected U.S. president in 2008, after years of keeping a low profile.

She says it was a hard decision.

"This wasn't an easy decision for us because we've got two beautiful little girls and we have a wonderful life, and everything was going fine," she told several hundred supporters this week in a school gymnasium here.

"And nothing would have been more disruptive than choosing to run for president of the United States."

Her deepening involvement in Obama's campaign comes as several other candidates' spouses take unusually high-profile, combative roles in the presidential race.

Elizabeth Edwards has emerged as a tenacious partner in her husband John's campaign to beat Obama to the Democratic nomination while Hillary Clinton's husband Bill needs no introduction to voters who elected him president twice.

Michelle Obama has become increasingly passionate on the campaign trail, as she introduces her husband and in separate gatherings she has with supporters.

"I'm tired of being afraid," she said to rousing applause at the small rural town of Council Bluffs in western Iowa, the state where the nomination process kicks off.

"I am tired of living in a country where every decision that we've made over the last 10 years wasn't for something that we believed in but because we feared something."

"ALL FIRED UP"

She introduced her husband as "the man who I love, who I'd rather have at home with me ... but who I'm willing to sacrifice, because we have ... a chance to make something real happen, something positive happen, to live beyond our fear."

"My wife got all fired up," said Obama, who is running second to Clinton in most Democratic national polls.

Supporters crowd around Michelle after her husband's stump speech, and she takes time to hear their stories, answer their questions, and urge them to vote for Obama.

She said she had never imagined being up on a stage in a presidential campaign.

"No, absolutely not. Absolutely not," she said in an interview in a coffee shop in the central Iowa town of Grinnell.

"I am very passionate about change in the country and that's what you see."

"I am really worried that we won't make the right decision this time around. And I'm really going to put everything that I have into making sure that people understand what's at stake and that we are thinking with our heads and not with fear."

Obama said she and her husband are struggling to minimize the impact the campaign has on their two daughters, Malia, 9 and Sasha, 6.

"We worry about it all the time. We really try to structure it so they're not on the road a lot," she said. "They're on it when they have breaks and vacation and they want to come."

Malia and Sasha were with their parents on a three-day bus tour of Iowa this week. They rode at the head of the motorcade, playing card games to pass the time.

In a stop at the Iowa State Fair in Des Moines, the girls got a taste of the huge media crush that follows their father when they got stuck in the middle of a swarm of reporters.

"There are aspects that are probably a bit tedious for them," said Michelle, adding that she and the girls had a "blast" at the fair once the media left with Barack."

Published: August 18, 2007

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=72407

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:48 PM

Bobert, you are demonstrably wrong.

Demonstrably because Nickhere made the exact same observation about bombing. Yet you acquiesced to Nickhere, and continue to argue with me.

That is one hell of a statement too...

"You can't get away with this here..."

So, you not only get to read "carpet bombing" into my statement, though I said nothing of the sort...

....and further more, though I said nothing of the sort, I am still not going to get away with saying nothing of the sort?

If I "cant get away with this here", who are you implying is going to stop me from getting away with saying nothing of the sort?

Wait...this is some kind of brain-teaser/puzzle/riddle idn't it? Is this one of those sound of one hand clapping things?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 10:57 PM

Here's some random thoughts I have about Michelle Obama's "Tired of being Afraid" speech:

If I were a person who taught others how to give a speech {which I'm not}, I'd direct them to study Michelle Obama "Tired of Being Tired" speech.

That speech started with Michelle Obama saying that she came to the Iowa fair to buy something on a stick-a hot dog or a candy bar {I think she said a Snicker's bar, but I'm not going to "cheat" and watch the video again to find out if this was the brand name of the candy on a stick that she mentioned}.

In my opinion, this lighthearted beginning {that I consider the preface to her main remarks} served to endear her to her audience and convey the message that Ms. Obama and, by extension, her husband Barack Obama, were "just like other folks".

This message was reinforced by Michelle's {and Barack's} informal attire. As a woman, I noticed that Michelle Obama didn't appear to ahve on any makeup and her hair was worn in a style that wasn't fancy. I liked that. I mean who goes to a country fair dressed in fancy clothes and expensive shoes? {Well, you know the answer to that one}.

**

Michelle Obama warmed up the crowd before she got "fired up". And when Michelle got fired up, she fired up the crowd. I noticed that Michelle Obama personalized her comments by making references to how she loves her husband and feels that he is special. {Hey, everybody loves to see happy, loving couples, right?} Unlike former Vice President Gore's kissing his wife on stage after she introduced him, Brack Obama and his wife gave each other a two handed high five, and he kissed her on the cheek. I liked that, and I think that Iowa crowd did too.

**

The idea of a US President and First Lady raising young children in the White House has a warm John Kennedyish feel to it. I think that Michelle tapped into that good feeling without exploiting her and Barack's two daughters. She didn't bring them up on stage to show them off-at least the video didn't show that. If she had brought her children onstage, or if Barack Oobama had done so, I think that would have been a "turn off". I'm tired of politicians showing off their children, and their grandchildren to fake like they have family values, and then they go off-stage and write policies, or support policies that are anti-family. Or they fail to vote for education policies, and health care policies, and employment policies, and environmental policies, and other policies would help children & families. Yeah, to paraphrase Fannie Lou Hamer, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of that.

**

Here's another way that I think that Michelle Obama reinforced the message that "I'm just like you". She referred to Barack Obama as "my husband" or as "Barack" and not as "Senator Obama". The use of that title would have set her and Barack Obama apart from her {and his} audience. And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there probably is a distaste & distrust for politicians in Iowa as there is in other parts of this country. What thinking person wouldn't have a distaste and distrust of government nowadays due to the scandals, corruption, illegalities, favoritism, and cronyism that exists from the top of this government on down?

By putting aside his title as US senator, and instead, calling him "my husband" or "Barack", Michelle Obama reinforced the image that Barack Obama is not one of those politicians, but a person {hudband/father} who cares about what "regular" folks care about and, if he is elected President, will restore decency and respect at home and abroad in & for the White House.

**

I notice that people have gotten into the habit of calling Barack Obama by his first name and Michelle Obama by her first name. This reinforces the message that Obama is "a regular person". I think that the fact that Obama is of mixed Black/White ancestry [which, in the USA, if not elsewhere, means that he is a Black man] makes it even more important to convey the sense that as Obama and his wife have the same positive core values as most Americans. Michelle's statement that she & her husband want a better, safer world for their daughters also reinforced this "I'm just like you" message.

**

I think that it wasn't only what Michelle Obama said, but how she said it. Michelle appeared to speak from her heart. I didn't get a sense that this was a set speech that she memorized ahead of time [though some or all of that speech may have been memorized}. Also, it appears from the media coverage, that this was the first time that Michelle Obama had given that speech. And if she gave that same speech over and over again using the same words, it seems to me that that would greatly diminish that speech's impact. Using the sentence "I'm tired of being afraid" is one thing. But repeating the same exact speech is a whole 'nuther thing.

**

The way that Michelle Obama gave this "I'm tired of being afraid" speech" reminded me of the oratory style of Black Baptist ministers-not the fire & brimestone type, but the Black ministers who know how to move the audience by the cadence of their words, the repetition & development of central themes, the appeal to the emotions-all of that was in Michelle's speech. Perhaps that's why this "I'm tired of being afraid" speech reminded me of the speeches of another great orator-Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

**

This was the first time that I heard Michelle Obama. And if it sounds like I'm very impressed by her-you got that right.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Aug 07 - 11:23 PM

Yes I know, I mispoke {or mis-typed} In my second sentence to my previous post I said Michelle Obama's speech was called "Tired Of Being Tired".

The actual title that the media-if not Michelle Obama herself-gave that speech is "Tired Of Being Afraid".

The "Tired Of Being Tired" is a clip from the 1964 Fannie Lou Hamer comment that was made in response to the question why she and other Black people from Mississippi formed the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party and went to the Democratic Convention to challenge the seating of the all-White Mississippi delegation.

If Michelle Obama knows this Fannie Lou Hamer quote-and I would be surprised if she didn't-her decision to use the folk process and change the word "tired" to "afraid" was masterful. Under the Republicans' rule Americans-and not just Black Americans-have been taught to be afraid. It's time that we stopped being scared of whichever Boogieman that the powers that be tell us to fear. Actually, it's past time.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 01:11 AM

Still noting the need to watch the words we use, I would also suggest using "I am done with being afraid!" It takes it to an even higher level of being beyond that fear and moving on to better times. It is a signal to our subconscious or our god, etc. that we are ready and willing it to be so.

I would like to see a politician reclaim a positivity for our nation, no longer speaking about fear, terrorists, etc. in the fear-mongering way of the shrub and company. There are positive ways of alerting the people, of uniting the people, without fear and intimidation. Maybe Michelle and Barack Obama are the ones to do so. I was not happy with his comments about Pakistan, but I do think he has a lot going for him.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,Yves
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:30 AM

Here's a link to a transcript of the speech:

http://danaroc.com/guests_michelleobama_082007.html

or try,

http://danaroc.com/guests_michelleobama_082007.html

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:40 AM

Here is a link to the transcripts for Michele Obama's speech:

http://danaroc.com/guests_michelleobama_082007.html

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:48 AM

Here is a hyperlink to the transcripts:

http://danaroc.com/guests_michelleobama_082007.html

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,jaded
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 07:00 AM

I wish the Obamas the best but I don't wish him the presidency. The job needs someone with experience and a track record.

And Obama's seeking a job. MLK was on a mission. MLK supported non-violence. Obama supports war. Sorry, no amount of rhetoric can make me sympathetic.

The people in American politics and public life who are TRULY in danger are those who threaten the system. MLK did, George Wallace, Malcolm X, John Kennedy. Ron Paul is threatening it with talk of doing away with income tax and the federal reserve.

They say Hillary Clinton is constantly changing planes and flight plans to protect herself, and I imagine Obama does the same.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 09:09 AM

Well, finally a link that my pea-shooter dial up could handle...

Yeah, nice speech... I believe, however, that these are themes that the Obama camp has honed in on and will be pressing in the coming days...

Yes, Obama's detractors will harp on Obama's lack of experience and Obama handled that one well in last night's debate by pointing out all the "experience" that Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfelf had coming into office...

As fir Obama beibng the second coming of MLK??? There won't be another MLK... Or Bobby Kennedy... Or Malcolm X... These are different times... What Obama can bring is a paradyme change... He has allready stated he would meet with our "enemies" in the 1at year of an Obama administration... That, in itself, is a paradyme change... Clinton, like Bush, like her husband, like all the Cold War presidents, insists on pre-conditions... Pre-conditions are what has gotten US into the messes we are in... For Obama to say he would meet unconditionally is in MO, progress and fresh...

People want to make what is going on now like Cold War II but it isn't... It's very much a "hot" war and therefore requires fresh "non Cold War" thinking...

People, like John here and Nickhere, will try to frame Obama as some loose cannon who is ready to "bomb Pakistanj"... That isn't what Obama has said... What he has said is that if has knowledge of folks who are planning to attack US that he will go after them where they are... That's a far cry from "bombing Pakistan"...

Talk about electibility here, folks... What chance would you give a candidate who would say he wouldn't go after them??? This is like the old "Are you still beating your wife?" question...

There is no other answer if one doesn't wand to get a ***Swift Boat" kick in the pants...

Now, I consider myself purdy much a follower of MLK... I worked with SOC and SCLC in the 60's and early 70's but I could possibly vote for Obama but he wouldn't be my first choice so I hope that what I have said does not come off as some kinda Obama apologist or partisan but I will defend him against the usaul unfounded attacks that PR machines pump into people's heads that make them say stuff like "Obama says he'll bomb Pakistan" if he becomes the president...

This is what we say happen to Howard Dean in the '04 campaigne... Oh, Dean isn't electable... And, plus, he is a sceamer... Haha... Bull...

No, Obama is electable...

(But I think Bill Richarson would bne my firast choice among twe Dems...)

But, yeah, nice speech, Micelle... Keep on hammerin' away at that theme, girl... That is exactly what MLK did and would do if he were still with us...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 10:33 AM

One of the reasons people become jaded is that they keep voicing the same opinion about the same subject, no matter what the topic of discussion is. This isn't about Barack Obama the presidential candidate. This is about Michelle Obama, the speaker. Try to think outside of that pea-sized cast iron box and give us an opinion on the speech.

I don't know that the speech is in the same league as "I Have a Dream", but it's one of the best I've heard in years. Other than the fact that I agree with John Hardly about the war in Afghanistan being one of retribution, I do believe the current administration has gone to some lengths to create and maintain a sense of fear.

Those idiotic terror alerts do nothing but remind average people, powerless to fight terrorists, that they NEED Homeland Security and government guns to protect them. That they NEED the Constitution gutted so authorities can do whatever the hell they want, and collateral damage to innocent parties or falsely accused 'enemies of the state' be damned.

Plastic bags and duct tape, the possibility of 'dirty' bombs, news about terrorist plots foiled... One face tells us, "Don't panic" while the second does its level best to scare the bejeezus out of us so we remember how much we need protection. Anybody who's had any training whatsoever with terrorism knows you don't do the terrorists' job for them. You stop the spread of panic. You tell them how to protect themselves every day, and NOT sound the alarm, then let folks calm down before sounding the alarm again, over and over.

The bigger picture is about more than fear. It's about negatives being the primary driving force in our lives. Attack ads and candidates dissing other candidates, people in forums and blogs who find it easier to talk about who and what they don't like versus who they support. Why? Maybe folks are jaded. Maybe disdain and contempt have become more preferable to share in public than fervor and zeal because the latter expose a person to ridicule.

And now we're back to fear. Fear of ridicule. Maybe people are too afraid to talk about what they care about because someone's going to jump on the opportunity to trash something special to them. You know, I just don't worry about ridicule. It's not my problem. Those who are fond of doing it to others aren't people I respect, so what they say doesn't matter. It's the easy way - they don't share their own opinions and just talk about other people's. Argue, yes; compare ideas you don't like to ones you do, but do nothing but ridicule and you immediately wind up in the category of too-clueless-to-waste-time-on' because it really doesn't take much of a brain to focus on other people's opinions.

I want to focus on the positives, on hope and possibility, not fear and disdain. I want a candidate and a platform to vote FOR, not a bunch of them to vote against. I want a sense of honest passion in a candidate. Yeah, I liked Michelle Obama's speech, and she sounded like someone inspired and inspirational, fearless and on fire, who meant every word. What she said and the way she said it wasn't what I'm used to hearing from politicians, but it was the sort of fire I'd like to hear.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 10:53 AM

The bigger picture is about more than fear. It's about negatives being the primary driving force in our lives.

Amen to that, Jeri, and the rest of what you posted.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Nickhere
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 11:54 AM

I like Michelle's idea about being 'tired of being afraid' - since she seems to be referring to the reactionary kind of politics of fear that dominate US political life. It IS time for a change in that sense. But I believe US life will need an overhaul that goes WAY beyond the politicla in order for that to become a reality. First of all the media will have to change tack - theyw ill have to stop simply trying to scare people all the time (Michael Moore was correct on that one). Unfortunately it seems to outsiders that 'fear is entertainment' in the US. Maybe I'm wrong, but unless it's been stamped romantic comedy and stars Julia Roberts or Sandra Bullock (why won't anyone give that woman the decent roles she deserves?) movies generally are about fear. The levels of violence seem truly gratuitous and seem way beyind what's necessary to tell a story. I know some folks might call me reactionary here, but the other night I watched a movie called The Hunter starring Billy Bob Thornton and the guy who played Sgt.Martin in 'Band of Brothers'.

While Billy Bob Thornton played himself as usual, at least "Sgt.Martin" was a more complex character with an odd love of animals clashing with deep disregard for most people. Yet I felt far more violence and detail was provided than was healthy. Too much detail on the training where Billy Bob explained how to gut someone alive, the correct places to stab. they even made their own knives in a sort of primeval ritual before trying to carve each other up. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had picked up bones like the apemen in "2001" and laid into each other. Some people - if even only a minority - who watch this kind of stuff will be tempted to try it out in real life. As it says in the Simpsons - 'now that you know what to do - don't do it'. It isn't the only cause of higher levels of violence, but I suspect it is one contributing factor. At the very least, it desensitises people and invites them to see the 'enemy' as something sub-human.

The bad guys in Hollywood movies are generally treated as something like an outbreak of rats or termites - you don't try to reason with them or understand their behaviour: you can't, because they are just inherently evil and anyway it makes the head hurt to look into things too deeply. You just call pest control (the marines) who will go in and eradicate the pests until the next outbreak. The symbolism is all there - you see who the good guys get 'kitted up' before dispatching the bad guys to hell. Sometimes when they assemble their rifles etc., I'm reminded of someone setting up their power tools before rolling up their sleeves and launching into some hard work. And the bad guys often die in ways that far exceed what's necessary (remember the anti-Arab racism when Arnie has caught a squealing Arab baddie on a rocket and turns to him "you're fired!" Whooooosh! Aieeeee! Yes, let's crack a few jokes while we crack a few heads!

Indeed that is a key feature of certain US foreign policy, and the kind of problem many people have with Obama's pronouncements on places like Pakistan, as mentioned above. With uncontrolled war raging across the Middle East and hundreds of thousands of people - including US soldiers and 'security employees' - dying needlessly, what we need is less war, more thought. Obama belongs to the old school, whether he talks of carpet bombing or surgical strikes. He wants to extend war, drop another bomb here and there as if that will solve anything. Where do you stop? Drop a few bombs in 'precise' places in Pakistan because a few 'terrorists' are holed up somewhere along the border? What if a 'terrorist' surfaces in the Languedoc in southern France or the Chiltern Hills and the police are less than fast enough at tracking him down? What then? Perhaps we could drop a bomb there. And if 20 or 30 innocent people also happen to lose their lives, that's ok, because we got Dr.Evil.

If only life was so simple! First off, a whole new approach is needed to end what's called 'terrorism'. I have argued before that while there will always be a few 'hard men' for whom violence is a way of life (from Bin laden to George Bush), the vast majority of people just want to enjoy life and raise their kids etc., It doesn't matter whether they're from Iowa or Pakistan. Bombs will do nothing. So what, you amange to kill Dr.Evil? Hundreds of new Dr.Evil's will quickly sprout to take his place, and it doesn't take long to learn all you need to know in such conditions to becoem the next Dr.Evil. Would the US suddenly fold up if Bush died / was assassinated? No, I don't think so, as the assassination of Kennedy proved. Why does the US think al-Qaeda or any of those other organisations would be any different?

There's only one way forward, and that's to create a more equal and just world where big buisness doesn't have world governemnts in its pocket and on its payroll and where legislation isn't designed to allow business do what it likes without regard to the human toll and keep the ordinary people under control (witness the use of anti-terror laws in the Uk recently when police arrested enviornmental campaigners at Heathrow - we have an increasingly right wing and 'Yes Man' police force in the West). In the long run it would be much cheaper to do the right thing than contniue to fight endless wars against a concept that will just have the corpses mounting up and up. Of course, it wouldn't be so good for business, especially the vast arms industry.

So the problem is simple really - you can't have your cake and eat it. You can't allow business to do what it likes, interfere with democracies here there and everywhere and expect the world's population to take it lying down and keep quiet because a few bombs are dropped on them.

And it isn't even doing Americans any favours (or Russians etc., for that matter). The big corporations may have helped make America rich once, but that wealth is increasingly being concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people. I'm sure Americans realise how 'patriotic' their big businsses are when they are left without jobs, pensions, decent social security or health care, as their big companies relocate to where wages are peanuts and governments are repressive enough to break trade unions with violence if necessary and keep the serfs servile.


Ok, Ok I'd better stop somewhere or put it all in a book....once I get on my soap box....!

Anyway, in sum, I agree with Michelle's idea of not living in fear anymore. Barak Obama is not that different in my opinion because he still thinks in terms of war as solving the world's ills. We need something truly more visionary. We need to stop fearing fellow man and finding ways to live together with enough room for everyone on this big planet. Talk of terror and terrorism just feeds into fear. There are people killing watonly on all sides and its time for that to stop (not that they'll listen to me!)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:47 PM

See, I don't hear what you hear, Nick, from Obama... I don't hear him saying things that would lead reasonable people to see him as some kind of war-monger or someone who sees military solutions to larger world problems...

He and Bill Richardson are probabbly the two Democrats who come accross as folks who are willing to sit down ***Now*** with our enemies... This is a ***major*** paradyme shift over what we have endured for decades... War maongers don't make these kinds of offers...

Yes, it will take some cultural changes for the world to take on a new and safer paradyme and in the interim the world will still be involved in "hot wars", where folks are either killing one another or planning to do it...

For Obama to say that, given intellegence that there waer some folks in Pakistan planning on attacking US, that he would try to get them first is not an unreasonable position... Anyone running for the Presidency who says they wouldn't is not fit for the job...

Big deal...

This does not make him a war monger... Just a man who sees the big picture while also keeping a close eye on the many smaller ones...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:09 PM

Both Barack and Hillary have opened the door. Whether or not they get to be President, the paradigm has shifted. No one can say any longer that it is impossible for a poor black kid or a girl child or to aspire to be POTUS.

The argument now is over thinking. What policies do we want to espouse? How soon will we leave Iraq? [The question is not if, it is when.] Can we make health care universal? Will there be an all inclusive draft? How will we treat our citizens who do not have equal rights, such as gays and American Indians? How will we finally get all the votes counted? There are a lot of questions I have not mentioned. Let's see how the answers play out.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:34 PM

Taken on value as literature the speech is ok. No 'I have a dream...', but within the context of actually expressing a viewpoint and as a result a deeper revelation of character it's amazing. The fact that they(meaning the Obamas) fit nicely into a Kennedyesque picture of family is completely incidental to who they are as people. They ARE that family and it's not by design or manipulation...the photo on the link looks like it was taken at Olan Mills, Anymall, USA. Like my wife says, 'He's a fox'...well she's a babe and they've got 2 lovely children. Ultimately, he's going to be elected or not on the content of HIS character...so far it looks like he's got NOTHING for which to be afraid. This is freaking America folks and conflict resolution within the democratic process and individualism in the face of odds is what we're all about. Level playing field...all that stuff. Man, he's taken a TON of heat already and remains unflappable. Sometimes, when I listen to polititians on the stump speak I'm like, "Use a verb already!". Well, he does. And so does his wife. 'I am' is a statement of who she is and what she believes. There's a book called Black vs. White- Styles in Conflict that I'd recommend. I can't remember the writer's name. It's only about 100 pages long, but will go a long way in explaining Ms. Obama's speaking style. Not that she needs an explanation.


The fact that Ms. Clinton is calling on his 'lack of experience' as a negative makes me value his outsider status all the more. Ms. Obama, unlike Ms. Clinton is NOT making overtures of setting up a co-presidency. The guy w/t placard had it right...she doesn't care she just wants power. Ms. Obama will have power in the future because of her attitude of support now. More power to her. She will do more to advance the cause of single mothers, working women, latch-key children, etc. in the role of 'First Lady' than the devisive Ms. Clinton could ever accomplish as president. Ms. Clinton's advisors better wake up to the fact that with this speech Ms. Obama is announcing, in effect that she's IN. Ms. Clinton is just another in a long line of ruthless American powermongers. Ms. Obama is her worst nightmare...a TRULY formidable woman.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:40 PM

Well said, Jeff...

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 05:44 PM

We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

That and ignorance ...

... boy ...

like nitro and glycerine!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Nickhere
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

Fair enough Bobert, maybe I'm not giving the guy a chance... if he's talking about dialogue well, that's a welcome paradigm shift; you're quiet right. But i suppose what I'm saying is that at this stage sorting out the issue of terrorism will require something far deeper than say, moving boundaries or removing troops, though these are important starts. It will require a fairer world where human dignity is elevated from the position it now holds, as a far lagging behind competitor of profit. We need to stop thinking in terms of 'them and us'. I'm not saying this will solve the problem overnight nor will it cause every violent person to change their ways, but it would help reduce it to a few isolated incidents rather than a global mass phenomenon. Then there's also the fact it needs to be a global action. Even if the US were to address its foreign and trade policies differently and put pressure on the IMF and World Bank to act more fairly, you'd still have to bring other rogue countries into line, too many to list here.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 06:45 PM

You are absolutely right, Nick-ster... It will require a "fairer" world...

The reason that the US won the Cold War was because it had a better story to tell... It was a better model... It was more just and more3 fair... Yes, inspite of Vietnam, the US put up the good fight to not allow it's values to backslide... It moved forward on civil rights, not because it was being forced upon it, but because it was the right thing to do... Yes, inspite of Vietnam, the US was respected...

If we are to win this War on Terror we will have to return to being the good guys, the country that tries it's danredness to create a good life for its people...

This is how the war can and should be fought...

We need to reinvent ourselve as a modern post 9/11 country that respects international law, respects it's own people's rights and sends out some good vibes... We are now lossing that war with the suspension of habeas corpus, the torturing and our senseless invasion and occupation of Iraq... We need to talk with our enemies without pre-conditions... We need to be honest brokers of peace...

But, yeah, we also need to do this in a time of extreme geo-political violence so we need to be vigilant...

I, fir one, don't hear this message in Hillary Clinton... I'd love to say I hear it in John Edwards but I don't... I do hear it in Obama, Dennis Kucinich and Bill Richardson...

The MLK book that I made refernce to si what it's all about when folks step to the plate and say, "The old stuff don't work no more... We need a change..." The name of that book, BTW, is "A Testament of Hope"...

I hear that in Michelle Obama's speech...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 07:00 PM

Living with fear & reacting to it is a far cry from the life we're living in the US today. We are presently only living with a facade of fear, a see through fence thrown at us by those that use it as a tool & means totheir ends but on the track were going it will become a real wall. We are building those walls now, look to the Mexcian Border, that's more than a physical wall it's won't keep out the unwanted it'll only justify the use of more terror. If Obama is the only one to sit with all our enemies & allies with out conditions that'll be the 1st time anyone has seen terror as a sickness that needs a cure & not just a treatment of symptoms. It won't be long before we become the butt of all terrorists & our walled borders won't stem one wave of the incoming tide. Even if we could stem the tide the life we'd be living would be a far cry from what we're living now. The changes that we live with now since 9/11 are 1st ridiculous & uncalled for but when real fear hits our shores the changes will be far from what we'll ever imagine. All it takes is an open mind, a tuned ear & a welcoming & helping hand rather than a ruthless sword, an ever watching eye towards profit & a greed that cause this nation to feed on its self as well as those that posess what we disire. If Obama in tired of living in fear good for them. The people of this nation are tire too, tired of having their votes not worth the paper it should be written on, tired of being allowed to be raped be drug barons, tired of working till their backs break just so the rich can ride high & migty over them, tire of laboring their lifes away to be cast aside as unhealthy vagabonds disitute, boke & unwanted after they've been used up. Well if it's a big deal that the Obama's are tired why isn't a big deal that the lower classs of this nation have been sick, poor & tir for the past 1/2 century. At the very least if they're the 1st that that feel this way it's been a long time coming, baby.

I don't see much hope for this nation in the long run, hopefully it's people will realize who's running for them & who's running against them, the last 7 years they've been helplessly fooled, hopefully they'll come to their senses. Sitting down & talking with everyone unconditionally is a 1st step in that direction.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 10:13 PM

We are all tired of being afraid. Only one problem..there are a lot of real threats out there, and we should turn some of the fear into realistic preparation. Certain things we could do would possibly lessen the impacts of various threats...and one thing we need to do is turn out more capable and skilled young people. There should not be one student this year or forever in the future with his or her feet up on the desk daring a teacher to teach him. He/she and all of his comrades, including those with Harvard buildings named after them, should be learning disaster preparedness skills, and certainly medical training. If they live near water of any sort, including raindrops, they should be trained in boating. Why do we wait for 4 helicopters per state when we have flooding problems when a whole lot of problems could be taken care of by boats? Think Katrina. Then think of the blockaders of America who prevented people with boats from trying to get there to rescue them. We need people who can act quickly in emergencies. There is a lot we can do. Where is Marilyn Quayle now that we need her.

Global warming, terrorism, natural disasters...all can be somewhat mitigated with preplanning, prepositioning of supplies etc. We need to know how to move people from point A to point B and how to move supplies. We need to know how to put in flood barricades, etc. We need youngsters who know to assemble themselves and start digging latrines. Lots we could be doing.

But have no doubt. the fear is real because the threats are real. Might as well face them as a prepared nation. And get those dopes off drugs. That creates so many problems. mg

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Barry Finn
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 01:18 AM

Mankind has always had to deal with nature, that's respect there's no need to fear nature just respect her. It' not the dopes on drugs that we need to fear, it's,,,, what's the use.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 01:30 AM

Let me tell you about being caused to live in fear. Let me tell you about one of the the Departments that is creating fear.

ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)recently raided a couple of Swift and Co. plants. They rounded up 1300 folks that simply went to work. The raid was conducted by agents dressed in black commando gear, with automatic weapons, balaclava's, and very little that ID'ed them as Agents. They forced everyone into a hall, and cuffed them using the fiber cuffs. For 4 to 5 hours, they wouldn't let them eat, drink, or call their kids (who were getting out of school). When they finally let women go to the bathroom, they had to do so with the stall door open, a male agent present and watching, and the male agents in some cases, due to still being cuffed, had to pull the pants down so the women could go to the bathroom. Virtually every person subjected to this was a US citizen, or a legal resident alien. When the raid was over, and the suspects vetted, it turned out that less than 4% of the suspects were undocumented aliens. A number of these folks, citizens and undocumented aliens, were moved to facilities in another State. One of the men was a Korean War veteran. Another was 6th generation American. One woman born and raised here was detained for hours while the ICE agents insisted she was Guatemalan. Another US citizen was 7 1/2 months pregnant and not allowed water or bathroom privileges for 5 hours. She was in tears just telling of her fear, shame, and humiliation. Another lady, a legal resident alien, when she saw the men with guns all dressed in black, was sure it was a terrorist attack and was looking to hide in the middle of people and play dead.

This is not second hand. I was present and heard these accounts given from the mouths of those who experienced it. This information is documented.

Our Constitution and laws are supposedly a reflection of our national morality. They codify what we believe to be the right way to live and treat others, our land, our workers, and so on. Our Declaration of Independence says We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Notice that is says all men and not all white men that are American citizens. The Fourth Amendment of our Constitution, which applies to all people in this country and not just people born in this country, says 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. These documents, and this action cause me to ask a couple of questions:

Where did the terrorists who killed 3500+ people sneak into the country from? Canada. Anyone talking about building a fence on the Canadian border? No. Why? My opinion is that it is racism pure and simple. There is a huge difference in scope and practice between folks that sneak in seeking to destroy our way of life, and folks sneaking in to simply give their kids a better life. Anyone of you that are Irish, Polish, Italian, etc should realize that this is how and why your ancxestors came.

What was it that these thugs masqueraiding as Federal Agents thought they would face that they had to come in dressed in black with automatic weapons, cuff and detain folks when they were simply looking for immigration violations? You would have thought they were going into an Al Qaeda stronghold against armed terrorists instead of simply checking the documents of workers in a plant. On the grand scale of it all, a violation of these documentation rules is probably worse than a traffic ticket, but infinitely less important than armed robbery or worse. Yet they went in like these were the most dangerous criminals on earth.

Forget for a minute the ethnicity and immigration issue. If your daughter or wife came home and said that they were detained, and to go to the bathroom they had to do so in front of an armed man, and the man had to pull down their pants so they could go. Your reaction would be ??????

Read the Fourth Amendment language quoted above and tell me how this isn't unconstitutional? Give me a justification for this breach of our most sacred document on this issue. Imagine that there is a shoplifting epidemic in your town. Imagine if the local constabulary decided the best way to find the thiefs was to encircle the town, and conduct house by house searches and patdowns, detaining you in cuffs while they searched for 4 to 5 hours. This was all done in order to catch the thieves. This is why the Fourth Amendment require one to have evidence of wrongdoing to conduct a search. This is prevented by the Amendment. Yet it is condoned in this case? How is our "Homeland Security" enhanced by such crude violations of the Constitution? And in the end result, less than 4% were found to be working without appropriate documentation. 96% of the folks that went through this horror were legal workers, citizens, or legal resident aliens.

I would hope you would get the distinction between searching out terrorists, and this ridiculous attitude towards folks just trying to earn a living. I keep hearing they are taking American jobs. But the American jobless rate isn't rising. And these packing houses are always hiring.

These things are all a part of the atmosphere of fear being created. And it is a feeble attempt to somehow link the fight against terrorist acts in this country with a group of people doing as generations before have done. And that is to get into this country, work hard, and live the American dream.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 11:58 AM

Bobert,

You talk about being the good guys,and public image.

I agree with the point you make which is that America needs to be the good guy if it wishes to have the respect of it's own electorate let alone other countries,

Only thing is that in the past the image was based on limited information.

Things aren't good, but to be fair, more people are enfranchised and there is less poverty generally and health is generally better etc than was the case for the first 2/3rds of the 20th century.

The problem America faces now is that in the information age it is harder to get away with a false public image.

Maybe the point is that America (dare I say it) could be the good guy if she wanted, and it wouldn't do her image any harm either ...

Then again, I also see GWB as a kind of self styled captain america anyway, so maybe the whole idea of good guy vs bad guy is a dangerous approach anyway.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 01:44 PM

I haven't read the comics with Captain America for a while but one of the things that made his strip worthwhile was that he had periods of introspection, in which he doubted the rightness of some of his actions--in others words, he was a reflection of the America around him.
Do you see that in GWB?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 03:22 PM

Thank you, Mick. It is good to read one of your "from the trenches" postings...it's been a long time and is always enlightening as well as stirring. We are lucky to have you helping our workers, esp. in these times.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 05:38 PM

Excellent post, Mick.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Nickhere
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 06:05 PM

Big Mick, LH has said it well - excellent post!

The so called 'war on terror' has been a big boon to bullies, thugs and scum pumped up on adrenalin who now get to live out their 'Mortal Kombat' fantasies in the real world. They even get to dress up and rough up real people. Some of the thinking behind this is driven by the neo-con ideal of 'action, not words' In other words, get tough and do something, leave the thinking and philosophising to hand-wringing lefties. This is actually identical to fascism as espoused by Mussolini. He had gangs of blackshirted thugs (the parallel is not lost on me) going around pouring liberal doses of cod liver oil down the throats of anyone who disagreed with the rgeime.

If we were to take the slogan 'War on terror' seriously we would have to start by locking all these so-called security agents (thugs) and Dubya up on Alcatraz, because they way things stand, people are starting to fear their own elected (!) governments more than they are these 'terrorists'. Terrorists to the left of me, thugs to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle....

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 06:20 PM

Yes, that is how a fascist authoritarian state is established. Constitution be damned. You scare people, you continually raise their level of fear through creative use of the news media, you empower the bullies in society to go around terrorizing the ordinary public. You blame it all on some kind of supposed threat from without or within. You increase police powers, military power, and domestic surveillance. You accuse anyone who stands up and protests of being unpatriotic or worse than that...of being a terrorist. You imprison, torture, and kill.

All in the name of national security....and "freedom" (ha ha)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 06:34 PM

Thanks Azizi, and all who have posted. An eye opening thread, and more, indeed. Well written and informative.

Big Mick, that is an horrific account of injustice on American soil (and I certainly don't mean to trivialize any others).

Subject: RE: BS: I'm Tired of Being Afraid; MichelleObama
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 07:46 PM

Good post, Mick...

This is what I'm talking about on how the US can will a War on Terrorism... It won't win it by terrorizing its own people, that much is fir sure...

No, the US's only chance to win it is to restore itself to pre-Bush days when people couldn't be rounded up, tortured, put away in prisons without being charges with anything... Where the rule of law is universally applied and folks who have the least have the same access to justice as those with the most...

Yeah, GUEST,lox pointed out that we are now in an information age where the good guys actually have to be, ahhhhh, ***good***... Yeah, that's what the US has stood for most of my life... Yeah, there are small minorities of unenlighted folks who just enjoy blaming and hating other folks but that ain't the average guy on the streets...

So, to win the War on Terrorism, Bush has to go... He has created more terrorists than he has destroyed... That means that his neo-con ideas aren't working...

Yes, it is time for a paradigm change...

Yes, it's time to put politics of fear behind US...

Yes, yes and more yes... We've had way to many no, no and more no's, thank you...

And yes to restorin' our civil liberties...

Bobert