BS: The bees are dying off...

Subject: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:43 PM

I had heard the odd rumor about North American bees dying off, but hadn't given it much thought until this spring.

I saw 2 bees in our garden this spring. Two. And that's it. I generally would have seen uncountable thousands of them by now.

My mother also mentioned it. She's seen 1 bee all spring and into the summer. A friend of hers knows a local beekeeper, and all of his bees have died.

Okay, so I started looking around for some information about it. Here's an article...

Bees dying off

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:50 PM

Here is wikipedia's take on it. A more lengthy article...

Colony Collapse Disorder

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:52 PM

yep...a genuine problem, only just beginning to be studied. It is scary. Added to the frogs with mutations and several other issues, it indicates we need to learn a LOT fast!

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Bee
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:00 PM

When you say 'bees', LH, do you mean all bees or just honey bees?

I've known about this for some time. It is happening mostly to hives in the US, with some possible crossover in Ontario discussed by beekeepers this spring, however it was determined that most hive losses in Ontario could be attributed to known causes (parasites, etc.) Sorry, no link because I read it in the spring.

There's been no obvious upsurge in honeybee losses in Nova Scotia, and I have not noticed any drop in the other bee species. There have been plenty of bumble bees, white bees, carpenter bees, and others in my gardens all summer. I don't live near any farms where spraying is done, and I use no pesticides myself.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:06 PM

On the upside, I've seen a shitload of robins this year. Can't remember seeing so many.

It must be tough for them though with the tiny amount of rain we've had this summer. Trying to pull worms from the dead dry lawns has to be like trying to root for gummy worms in asphalt.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:20 PM

Other trhread

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:24 PM

A lot of them have come here to SW corner of Washington. I can't remember when I have seen so many..swarms of them landing in trees etc....mg

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: gnu
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:32 PM

It's the black bears. They are as thick as lice up around my camp. And, they destroy bee nests by the dozens each.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:41 PM

It's mosty the commercial bee hives that are collapsing, the ones trucked around for pollination.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: pdq
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:47 PM

"When you say 'bees'...do you mean all bees or just honey bees?"

Honey bees only.

There are four recognizd species in genus Apis, none is native to North America or to South America. Apis mellifera, correctly called Western honey bee or European honey bee, is the species used commercially to polinate crops. It is now used throughout the world. The so called Africanized bee is the same species, just a regional variant.

What is odd about the current problem is that some of the boxes that held healthy colonies are simply empty. No proof that the bees died, just that they are gone.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:47 PM

Honey bees, commercial pollinating bees - here is a link about recent news.
Sept 6 news will be released

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:49 PM

If you can't read that link, rumors are that it is a virus, but the researchers are keeping
quiet until the Sept 6 announcement date.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 03:41 PM

And lest you take this problem lightly, I've heard that about 80% of our non-animal food supply is dependent in one degree or another on bee pollination. This is big-time trouble, friends!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:11 PM

We in Maine take it very seriously. Our crop of Blueberries depend on bees to pollinate.

I've seen plenty of Bumblebees, and Yellow jackets, but no honey bees at all. I don't, and won't use pesticides.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 04:16 PM

I spoke to a local beekeeper whose honey I've been buying for the last couple of years, and he had some interesting info.

He says there are a number of problems. One is an infestation of mites from Asia. The mites infest a beehive until the bees become so miserable that most of them simply fly off and abandon the hive, leaving the queen and a few loyal workers. At that point the hive is effectively wiped out. The bees that leave will sometimes, according to him, join other hives, but in doing so they spread the mite infection.

He said the wild honeybees in North America have been pretty much wiped out by these mites, and that the surviving bees are almost all bees being raised by commercial growers. I guess that explains why I'm not seeing bees in our garden, they must have been the wild ones.

Another problem is the use of various insecticides that have killed the bees by destroying their immune systems or just poisoning them. He says this has been a particularly big problem in the USA where the commercial growers cheated by using various illegal chemicals to treat their beehives (or crops?), because those cost less than the legal stuff! They were saving themselves maybe $4 a hive per year by doing that, so if you have 1,000 hives, there's an extra $4,000. Only trouble is...it had the unexpected side effect of poisoning the bees and causing them to die in great numbers.

He says that because of the mites and the other factors the bee population has become very fragile. It didn't used to be that way...he says when he started in beekeeping that he didn't have to take any special care of them at all...but now unless he takes great care to keep them healthy they will get sick and die.

He seems to be doing a good job at it, because he says he has lost only 20% of his bees over the past year.

He also says that unusual changes in weather patterns have done a lot of harm in the past couple of years.

According to him, the problem is worse in the USA than in Canada, primarily because the large commercial beekeeping outfits in the USA have been cutting corners in order to make more money and their bees' health has been badly damaged in the process.

Yeah, it's big-time trouble all right...

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: heric
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:34 PM

A recent article in Smithsonian mentioned that introduction of honeybees in the seventeenth century wiped out most species-specific pollinators, which had previously ruled the continent. (Earthworms were foreign to the continent as well, as an aside.)

(Same mag, same subject, diferent article, has an entomologist speculating that aliens finally made contact and invited the planet's most advanced civilization to go with them.)

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:40 PM

I'm waiting for the news release on Sept 6 regarding the research findings.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: heric
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:51 PM

Where do USDA researchers, funded by taxpayers, get the authority to keep agricultural research findings secret? National security??

(oh-oh. an al-quaida virus. . . . )

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Gurney
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 09:46 PM

Little Hawk, here in NZ the bees have the same problem. Varroa Mite(SP?) is blamed, it seems they just bleed the bees into somnolence. As there is/was a thriving business here in exporting and dealing in bee colonies, it is very seriously regarded.

I always thought that bees were pretty much self-supporting, but it seems that they are much like any other kind of livestock.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 12:55 AM

They used to be self-supporting, but not anymore. They have been facing many new sources of stress.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:41 AM

According to an extensive article, the bees may be dying off because they are overworked: clickety. My apologies if a link has already been posted.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Metchosin
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 06:03 AM

Excellent article, kat. The lack of genetic diversity of commercially available queens could very well be a significant part of the problem. It certainly has been a problem here in other domains.
.
The pine forests here in BC are currently being destroyed by a massive mountain pine beetle epidemic. The decision to dick with the ecosystems in this province has resulted 3 times as much pine grown now, than there was 100 years ago.

A good proportion of those stands are also of limited genetic diversity. The seed lots and seedlings were selected based on commercial economic values, such as fast growth, with little regard to how those trees would respond to changes in climate or their resistance to disease and insects when stressed.

Its what happens when you think you are smarter than Mother Nature and decide to "grow" forests as a "crop". It might work well for short-term plants, but it is deadly when you plan to span 60 or 70 years until harvest. Nature has had 10 or 15 thousand years practice perfecting the northern forests. Its sheer hubris to think we can do better on such a grand scale; but we can sure go a helluva long way towards f%#king it up.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Gurney
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 06:30 PM

Metchosin, the pine grown here is not a native, being Pinus Radiata from South America. Some years ago I watched a TV programme where it was explained that a particular tree was chosen, and then seedlings were cloned from individual pine NEEDLES! A split with a razor blade, dip it in rooting compound, and plant it.
So much for diversity and 'mongrel vigour.'
I understand that, in this warmer climate, they can start harvesting in less than 30 years.

For Aussies. Don't try rooting compound at home. She'll spit it out.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 03:50 AM

Yes Gurney, tissue culturing can be used to produce massive amounts of clones from those trees which are deemed by the forest industry as having traits best suited to their ends.

The forest industry here also chose to monoculture vast clear cut areas in central BC with lodgepole pine because it was hardy, quick growing and tended to crowd out other species, therefore more profitable from their standpoint.

Working in concert with Mother Nature rather than entirely imposing one's own will would have been a better choice. It would seem that mixed stands might have prevented the beetle infestation from reaching such epidemic proportions.

I just got back a couple of weeks ago from a trip to the Interior where, mile after mile, there was nothing but dead red trees for as far as the eye could could see. Rather heartbreaking.

Sorry to digress farther afield from honey bees, but it left an indelible impression. I can remember years ago when I worked for Forestry discussing this as a real possibility and being dismissed as a nut case. Technology can be a tremendous tool, but I never felt it was wise to fall utterly in love with it.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Alice
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 01:02 AM

"A virus found in Australian and Israeli honeybees may play a role in the widespread collapse of honeybee colonies in the United States."
press release here:
Click here

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: ragdall
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 02:40 AM

I haven't seen one honey bee here (North central BC) this summer. They used to be plentiful. I'll gladly send Yellowjackets to anyone who wants some, though.

Metchosin, the loss of our Pine trees is heartbreaking. I had one small spindly young Pine left after the beetles destroyed the rest of my stand two years ago. I now see that the needles on it are turning brown too. Apparently some of the beetles have adapted to attack Spruce as well. It will soon be a desert here.

Subject: RE: BS: The bees are dying off...
From: Metchosin
Date: 08 Sep 07 - 03:13 AM

ragdall, I didn't notice any honey bees here on the south end of Vancouver Island this year either, but at least there weren't many yellowjackets for a change. We sure had an increase in native bees though. I haven't seen so many bumble bees in years. Thankfully, nature still tends to abhor a vacuum. So sorry about your trees.