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The Butterfly slip jig

Les in Chorlton 12 Sep 07 - 09:53 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Sep 07 - 10:04 AM
Greg B 12 Sep 07 - 10:06 AM
Les in Chorlton 12 Sep 07 - 10:07 AM
PMB 12 Sep 07 - 10:21 AM
Greg B 12 Sep 07 - 10:24 AM
Mr Happy 12 Sep 07 - 10:28 AM
Les in Chorlton 12 Sep 07 - 10:28 AM
Les in Chorlton 12 Sep 07 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,strad 12 Sep 07 - 10:37 AM
Jeri 12 Sep 07 - 10:40 AM
Les in Chorlton 12 Sep 07 - 10:53 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM
Gulliver 12 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 12 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,kenny 12 Sep 07 - 04:19 PM
Declan 12 Sep 07 - 07:58 PM
Susan A-R 12 Sep 07 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 12 Sep 07 - 10:29 PM
Cluin 13 Sep 07 - 12:14 AM
Cluin 13 Sep 07 - 12:26 AM
Anglo 13 Sep 07 - 03:19 AM
PMB 13 Sep 07 - 04:34 AM
Mr Happy 13 Sep 07 - 07:02 AM
Mr Happy 13 Sep 07 - 07:10 AM
GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler 13 Sep 07 - 07:32 AM
Mr Happy 13 Sep 07 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,jim 13 Sep 07 - 10:43 AM
Gulliver 13 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM
Pauline L 13 Sep 07 - 11:22 AM
harpmolly 13 Sep 07 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly 13 Sep 07 - 12:12 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM
Declan 13 Sep 07 - 07:18 PM
The Sandman 13 Sep 07 - 07:32 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Sep 07 - 07:41 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 13 Sep 07 - 09:28 PM
harpmolly 13 Sep 07 - 11:13 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 13 Sep 07 - 11:21 PM
harpmolly 13 Sep 07 - 11:23 PM
Mooh 14 Sep 07 - 10:58 AM
Mooh 15 Sep 07 - 02:15 PM
redsnapper 15 Sep 07 - 03:33 PM
ThreeSheds 16 Sep 07 - 03:01 PM
Alice 16 Sep 07 - 03:44 PM
Mooh 23 Dec 07 - 09:53 AM
Les in Chorlton 23 Dec 07 - 01:01 PM
Graham and Jo 23 Dec 07 - 04:08 PM
PHJim 01 Aug 15 - 07:40 PM
GUEST 02 Aug 15 - 05:03 AM
Les in Chorlton 02 Aug 15 - 05:09 AM
CupOfTea 02 Aug 15 - 07:56 AM
michaelr 02 Aug 15 - 03:07 PM
Jack Campin 02 Aug 15 - 04:34 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 03 Aug 15 - 06:12 AM
FreddyHeadey 03 Aug 15 - 04:37 PM
Noreen 03 Aug 15 - 05:32 PM
GUEST 03 Aug 15 - 07:43 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 04 Aug 15 - 04:44 PM
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Subject: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 09:53 AM

Just discovered this beautiful tune in the collection shared for the sessions at Shrewsbury Festival.

Does anybody know its origin?

Thanks
Les


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:04 AM

It's a fairly recent composition (about 20-30 years old, I think). I'd always thought it was written by Seán Potts but have been corrected on that... and doubtless will be so again, cos now I can't remember who it was   ;-)


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Greg B
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:06 AM

Actually, the fellow what first played the bugger three decades
ago is still playing it, trying in vain to find the end...


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:07 AM

Thanks Bonnie,

I much enjoyed your music with Packie, I think Liverpool around 1970 but it might also have been Leeds and Whitby.

Its a lovely tune feels a bit like a Waltz?


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: PMB
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:21 AM

It's a slip jig. You can finish it by changing to a reel such as the Hunter's Purse.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Greg B
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:24 AM

You can leave, but you can never finish...


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mr Happy
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:28 AM

K: Emin
|:B2E G2E F3|B2E G2E FED|B2E G2E F3|B2d d2B AFD:|
|:B2d e2f g3|B2d g2e dBA|B2d e2f g2a|b2a g2e dBA:|
|:B3 B2A G2A|B3 BAB dBA|B3 B2A G2A|B2d g2e dBA:|


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:28 AM

Greg have you been trapped in a round?


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:36 AM

Thanks Mr Happy, I am not much good at that system of notes but I have the dots from Shrewsbury, however Ken who plays guitar would value the chords if you have them

thanks Les


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:37 AM

It's more than 30 years old as I was playing it in the early 70's.
I believe it was written by the late John Docherty the Donegal fiddler.
Shouldn't the d notes in the second part be c's? Sounds righter.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:40 AM

I have one recording that ascribes it to Tommy Potts, although the notes say it's also attributed to 'anon'. There are files on the web at JC's Tunefinder that list both.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:53 AM

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/10

I have discovered the entire history, more or less here so I guess I have answered my own question

"Only partly by Tommy - ?

It's my understanding that only the "A" section is fully by Tommy Potts. The "B" and "C" sections are (or are at least were based on) a traditional slip jig called Bill Groggin's Goat.
I think a good set is to play two or three rounds of Bill Groggin's Goat and on the last repeat of the "B" section play the "C" section of the Butterfly instead; and then finish off with remainder of the Butterfly."


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Thankew - Yes, it was TOMMY Potts. At least that's how I remember being corrected, in an Irish e-group who's pretty clued up about such things. [Well, I got the "Potts" bit right anyway...]

John Docherty may well have played another tune with "Butterfly" in the title - he had a treasure-trove of music at his fingertips, and some of his pieces went under different names than they were known by elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Gulliver
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM

I read somewhere that it was composed by Tommy Potts based on an older tune. This is from the Fiddlers Companion:

BUTTERFLY [3], THE. AKA and see "Óró, a Thaidhg, a Ghrá," "Skin the Peeler(s)." Irish, Slip Jig. E Minor/Dorian. Standard. AABBCC. Composition of the "The Butterfly" is credited to the late fiddler Tommy Potts, who knew the first two parts of the tune from his father, Sean, an Uilleann piper (the two-part tune appears in Coles 1000 as "Skin the Peeler" and "Barney's Goat"). Caoimhin Mac Aoidh gives that Potts was working in his garden one day when he noticed the erratic flight of a butterfly flitting about. Intrigued, Potts tried to mimick the rhythm of the insect while he continued to work in the garden, and was inspired to come up with the third part of the tune. The first two existing parts were altered rhythmically to fit.

Don


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM

Sorry Les, we cross-posted. Thanks for the info -


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 04:19 PM

Surprised no-one mentioned how it was made popular by "The Bothy Band", although Tommy Potts recorded it on his Claddagh record "The Liffey Banks". I've heard he didn't compose it outright, but re-arranged some parts of older tunes - Noel Hill once said he's heard the McDonagh brothers play parts of it years before it became popular.
An interesting comparison was pointed out to me with the melody of the Jacobite song "Come Ye O'wer Fae France" - try it yourself.
If you want a really off the wall version, listen to it by the Dutch band "Flairck" - amazing stuff.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Declan
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 07:58 PM

I'm not sure how much Tommy Potts had to do with its composition, but he certainly made it his own. Tommy had a fairly unique style of fiddle playing which is certainly well worth listening to, if you can find any recordinngs.

I also love the Bothy's version, which I think would owe a lot to the way Tommy Potts played the tune.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Susan A-R
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 08:48 PM

Kevin Burke does a beautiful solo version, messing about with the rhythm to give it that Butterfly feel. We play it with The Snowy Path (when it's either appropriate, or not tempting fate up here in Vermont where it can snow rudely and heavily in April) It's a pretty combination.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 10:29 PM

WONDERFUL Thread.

Delightful information and sourcing!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

just when you think "you know it all" someone slides in a "slip jig." A weekend of learning ahead.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 12:14 AM

I have it by the Chieftains on their "In Ireland" album they recorded with James Galway. They titled it "The Red Admiral Butterfly (slip jig)" but don't credit it to anyone, not even "trad". It is the only tune on the album not credited in some way. Seems like if it was a Sean Potts tune, they'd have said so.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 12:26 AM

This site says it's a trad tune called "Skin the Peelers" (strange name for that particular tune) with an additional 1st part by Tommy Potts.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Anglo
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 03:19 AM

And YES, Guest strad, the d notes in the B part of the ABC above should definitely be c's.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: PMB
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 04:34 AM

I've never heard it played with c's in the second part, though I've played it in sessions hundreds of times exactly as posted by Citizen Heureux. And I hope I never do- it sounds really off with c's in there.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:02 AM

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1xtFyPZ1mXo


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:10 AM

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/10


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:32 AM

It's used as the theme tune for the Manx Radio folk show on Tuesday nights (listen again facility - well download a .wma file facility - on their web site). Don't know who plays that version though.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:44 AM

Thanks GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler for the Manx Radio folk show info, great music!!

Here's a link:





http://www.manxradio.com/listenagain.aspx


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,jim
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 10:43 AM

There is a tune on The Session web site, http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/5835 called the catterpillar. It is a slip jig with the same chord progression a The Butterfly.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Gulliver
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:18 AM

Saying that it's in Em (dorian) seems to confuse accompanying guitarists if they're not familiar with the tune, because it seems to start in Bm--is that right?

Don


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Pauline L
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:22 AM

Mr. Happy, thanks for the link. From there you can go easily to tradlessons, a great learning resource. Each tune is played first at performance speed and second at a slower speed for learning.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: harpmolly
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:36 AM

LOVE this tune...can't even think where I heard it first. It sort of feels like it just absorbed in by osmosis. All I can say is that it's great fun to play on the hammered dulcimer.

Re: the difficulty in finishing it off--it CAN'T be any worse than "Eleanor Plunkett". Resolve, damn you! I'm going out of my skull here! :D

I do love slip jigs...

M


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 12:12 PM

Try dancing to slip jigs. Very strange!


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM

Apropos of resolution at the end of The Butterfly and Eleanor Plunkett (both on my CD!): I think it's just great to stop them without resolution. The Snowy Path is another such. Likewise, the jig Blarney Pilgrim is far better when the final chord played is a D...


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Declan
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:18 PM

I think the Butterfly and the Snowy Path would make a lovely set.

The snowy path was composed by Altan guitarist Mark Kelly - a fellow Dub. Knowing Mark I think the fact that it's a SLIP jig and the title The Snowy Path are not coincidental.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:32 PM

Steve Shaw,I agree about The Blarney Pilgrim.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 07:41 PM

Some time, when I've had a little less Highland Park than I have this evening, I'll try to think of some some more traditional pieces that work nicely when "left hanging" at the end...


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 09:28 PM

STEVIE ... me boy...PLEASE even two or three titles only ...would be more than enough....SOOON!!!!

I'v only this weekend to get through the slippery stuff.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: harpmolly
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:13 PM

Yes, a dangling unresolved chord can be fun. I personally like to end "Banish Misfortune" with a G chord (when playing in D Mix). It's a pain when I'm playing with others, though...;)

Thanks for turning me on to "The Snowy Path"...gorgeous tune!

M


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:21 PM

OK...MollyHumrp....followed your leads....

No music....."Please Post a URL!!!"

A google led me into "Snowy Woods" worthy of a Frost

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: harpmolly
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 11:23 PM

"Huh?"

Sorry, I'm slowly slipping into a food-induced coma. What info were you wanting? ;)


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Sep 07 - 10:58 AM

Simon Mayor has a nice version.

I've got it in standard notation and tabbed for guitar, mandolin, and bass if anyone is interested. PM me if you are.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 02:15 PM

Thanks for your interest folks. Some emails sent. Send a home email if you can, I can't seem to attach the file to the Mudcat PM.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: redsnapper
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 03:33 PM

I like to play it with the Kid on the Mountain (Bike) following.

I completely agree with Harpmolly about the lovely unresolved dangling chord/note to finish. I always finish Elsie Marley thus.

RS


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 03:01 PM

Thanks Mooh youre a star!


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Alice
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 03:44 PM

The Butterfly aka The Red Admiral Butterfly is based on Bob and Joan or Boban (or Bobbin) John, an older tune.
There is a mudcat thread about it from circa 1998.


Also see this page. http://www.nigelgatherer.com/books/CRE/cre1.html

quote
This and no. 65 are clearly related to the Scottish Jacobite song air "Cam' Ye Ower frae France" and also to Tommy Potts's The Butterfly. The song includes a reference to "Boban (or Bobbin) John", a nickname of the Jacobite leader the Earl of Mar; as Boban John, the tune was in Robert Petrie's "Fourth Collection of Strathspeys, Reels and Jiggs" (1796).


Alice


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Mooh
Date: 23 Dec 07 - 09:53 AM

By the way, had some fun with a friend this week superimposing The Butterfly over The Angel Gabriel, with some allowances for number of bars and staying out of each other's octave to avoid dissonance. I think I'll have to write it out to make sense of it, thank goodness for Finale software.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Dec 07 - 01:01 PM

It's a mesmeric little devil, is it not?


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Graham and Jo
Date: 23 Dec 07 - 04:08 PM

goes nicely after the fox hunters, another slip jig (9/8)
Think there's a suggested set of 3 tunes in a book somewhere with Foxhunters, the Butterfly, kid on the mountain.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: PHJim
Date: 01 Aug 15 - 07:40 PM

Could someone suggest some chord changes for this tune?


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:03 AM

We have this tune in our tune book - chords and all but we are editing the book at the moment and changing some of the chords in Butterfly - as soon as it is sorted I will put a link to our version


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 05:09 AM

Is this any use:
X: 1
T:134. The Butterfly - Attributed to Tommy Potts et al.
M:9/8
L:1/8
R: Slip Jig
K:Em
|:"Em"B2EG2E"D"F3|"Em"B2EG2E"Bm7" FED|"Em"B2EG2E "D"F2A|"Bm7"B2c d2B AFD:|/
|:"Em"B2de2f"Bm7"g3|"Em"B2dg2e "Bm7"dBA|"Em"B2de2f"Bm7"g2a|"Bm7"b2ag2e dBA:|/
|:"G"B3B2A"Am7"G2A|"G"B3 BAB "D"dBA|"G"B3B2A"Am7"G2A|"Bm7"B2dg2e dBA:|/


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: CupOfTea
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 07:56 AM

Fascinating bit of ancestry for this tune I love playing. I also learned it with c rather than d in the b part. Having just recently acquired a device to translate ABC tunes to dots and inserting tune files by the bucketload into it, I've had to do some comparison shopping to see which version is closest to the paper versions I learned from.

I know tunes passed around by aural tradition can have wee bits of variation, and when put to paper, sometimes ornaments look like part of the melody. This was a key to trying to sort out a tune name for a friend who fell in love with a piece used in the movie "The Secret of Roan Innish." My best guess was that it was a variation on "The Butterfly" which I'd only recently started to learn. That what was played might be an ancestor, or relative tune to that makes considerable sense. Thanks!

Joanne in Cleveland


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 03:07 PM

PHJim - try this:

A part - Em Em D Em Em D Em Em D   Bm..   (2x)

B part - Am..    Am Am G   Am..   C..   (2x)

C part - Em..   Em Em G   Em.. Em Em Bm   (2x)


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 15 - 04:34 PM

It's worth trying to find Tommy Potts's own version (it's on YouTube but keeps moving around). FAR faster than the usual session speed.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 06:12 AM

While on the subject of Tommy Potts, recently I heard Liam O Connor play another of Potts' compositions. A slip jig (as far as I remember) called 'The Loom' said to recall the sound and movement of the weavers in the Coombe area of Dublin where Potts grew up. A strangely beautiful piece that I hadn't come across before (although I don't have the RTE Tommy Potts compilation CD so it may be on that).


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 04:37 PM

The Butterfly...
There are Spotify and YouTube links here Tommy+Potts/_/the+butterfly


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Noreen
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 05:32 PM

Thanks Freddy for the links- very interesting to hear the original, which then led me to the Bothy Band version which was the first I ever came across.
Fascinating tune.


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 15 - 07:43 PM

The version used on the Manx Radio programme is by Paddy Glckin and Jolyon Jackson from their 1980 LP "Hidden Ground" on the Tara label


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Subject: RE: The Butterfly slip jig
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Aug 15 - 04:44 PM

Peter Knight (ex Steeleye, latterly Gigspanner) has given it some serious workings over down the years. HERE for instance, where he takes nearly eight minutes to get round to the tune proper....


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