BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up

Subject: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 03:39 PM

Latest news from the US, Hillary Clinton is receiving a LOT of financial support from the republican right.
Writing in today's Sunday Times conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan says The New York Times columnist David Brooks, a template for responsible, moderate conservative opinion, gushed a little. Clinton has long been under fire from the "netroots" left, the internet political activists, for her original vote for the Iraq war and refusal to disavow it.

Then last weekend, in a total of five appearances on five different Sunday talk shows, Clinton went further, as Brooks recounted, with a smile on his face: "On This Week with George Stephanopoulos, Clinton could have vowed to vacate Iraq. Instead, she delivered hawkish mini-speeches that few Republicans would object to. She listed a series of threats and interests in the region and made it clear that she'd be willing to keep US troops there to handle them.

The fact is, many Democratic politicians privately detest the netroots' self-righteousness and bullying. They also know their party has a historic opportunity to pick up disaffected Republicans and moderates, so long as they don't blow it by drifting into cuckoo land.

Cuckoo land now means any firm indication that Clinton might actually abort the occupation of Iraq in any meaningful way in her first term of office. If you want to see just how successful President Bush and General Petraeus have been in buying more time – and $190 billion next year – for an indefinite American occupation of the Middle East, Brooks's provocation tells you most of what you need to know.

Last Wednesday night, for good measure, all three main candidates for the Democratic nomination refused to pledge that all troops would be out of Iraq in their first term of office. That was news enough. But Clinton, earlier that day in the Senate, moved one step even further to the pro-war right by voting for a nonbinding resolution that declares the Iranian Revolutionary Guards a "terrorist entity".

Since this terrorist entity is part of the Iranian state, this was understandably regarded by many as a small but necessary congressional step towards authorising war on Iran. None of her rivals in the presidential campaign voted with her. No wonder neoconservatives are taking a second look at a woman they once demonised.

Clinton appears to be following Bush's script. Republican bloggers were near ecstatic. From the point of view of some it was win-win. Patrick Ruffini wrote on a leading Republican website: "Hillary is morphing into a George W Bush Democrat


Mudcat Democrats should take note, don't be conned by the one party system....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 03:44 PM

"One Florida lawyer said he had swapped from Bush to Clinton because "I give when somebody leans on me. Clients say, 'I expect you to contribute', so I do. I know George Bush and Hillary Clinton personally and there is no difference between them. They're politicians who worry about themselves first.""

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 03:50 PM

Yup. As Akenaton said, don't be conned by the one-party $ySStem, because that is exactly what it really is. You get to vote for 2 versions of the one party, the financial oligarchy's party. The 2 versions differ slightly in both style and content, they run different candidates, but they serve the same basic agenda when it comes to the important stuff. They squabble over the details. The squabbling is necessary in order to play the game and make it at least look sort of real.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 03:51 PM

They make a lovely couple . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 04:29 PM

It was my understanding that the Democrats were for big business and the Republicans were for big big business.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 04:38 PM

The Republicans put forth a system under which people exploit other people. With the Democrats, it's the reverse.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 04:44 PM

"Assuming either the Left Wing or the Right Wing gained control of the country, it would probably fly around in circles."

                ~ Pat Paulsen

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 05:01 PM

Where have all the Americans gone?

Off to storm Capitol Hill I hope :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 05:05 PM

Ha! Ha! Good one there, pdq...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 05:10 PM

W nicknamed Karl Rove "Turd Blossom," Alexander Putin "Pootie Poot," Tony Blair "Landslide," and others similar things.

I wonder what he's nicknamed Obama? Clinton? McCain? Guiliani?

I wonder if he realizes how insulting these names are. I wonder if he realizes anything at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 05:17 PM

"I wonder if he realizes how insulting these names are."(?)

Of course he does. It is both fun and it puts people in their place.

Bush also calls Ted Kennedy "Chappy" and does (did?) that in person.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 05:20 PM

I've upped my standards. Now, up yours.

Pat Paulsen

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 05:31 PM

"I am neither Left Wing nor Right Wing. I am middle-of-the-bird."

                  ~ Pat Paulsen

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 06:48 PM

Ha! Ha! What a wit. We need more people like him in the media these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 08:02 PM

We need people like him in the White House, instead of the dud comedian we have.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Cobble
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 08:09 PM

What a pity the American governing system is so sick and fascist. And you are all conned by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 08:22 PM

Yeah, Ake....

Hillary is jts another Clinton... The last one was a "Republican's Dream" and so now we have one that has even more experioence to draw from on to become the "Republican's Dream, Part II"...

She is the worst of the current crop of Dems...

But scarier than that is the "tool box" of executive powers that Bush has worked so hard to collect and will be left to the next executive... I don't trust Hillary any further than I can throw her and with the "tool box", I trust her even less.... This woamn will make George Bush look like an Eagle Scout helpin' old ladies accross the street...

Do not vote for this power hungry neo-con in sheep's clothing... She is bad news...

Sorry, LH, I know you have this thing fir her...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 09:16 PM

Oh... (grin) Well, I actually like Hillary on a strictly personal basis, just as who she is personally, her intelligence and ability...I always did like her. I don't identify at all with this visceral hatred that so many Americans seem to have for her. But I don't like what I sense about her politically. I pretty much agree with your view of her politically speaking. I think she represents the same corporate oligarchy as the Bushes and that she will carry on essentially very similar policies once in office.

It's sad, but that's what it looks like to me.

I watched some footage of Kucinich that CarolC provided links to, and that guy is actually saying something REAL instead of the usual BS you hear from all the presidential candidates. I would vote for him without hesitation if I had the choice.

But I don't think the Democratic party machine would ever allow a person with his views to get into office, I really don't. Or they'd have someone kill him if he somehow did get in there...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 10:19 PM

The problem is he won't get in there.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 03:05 AM

Is there no one from the US prepared to defend their electoral system?
Are there no Democrats prepared to defend their Party system?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: van lingle
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 09:56 AM

In response to all you one-party system theorists that Ake mentioned let me point out that if Gore had been elected (well,inaugurated)we in all likelihood would not have had, among other things:

This Iraq debacle
A lopsided Supreme Court
A justice system loaded with with conservative Bush/Rove appointed judges and prosecutors
An administration that will barely even pay lip service to the crushing environmental problems this world is facing.

I'd certainly like to see a more progressive leader in there but, no, it is not all one thing. vl

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 10:14 AM

OK Van Lingle...But we've "moved on", what about Hillary? and what about the Democratic Party in 2007

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: van lingle
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 10:43 AM

Re Hillary, I think about the best we can hope for in this system is a grown-up, responsible administrator who is not going to succumb to neo-con adventurerers' dreams about American Centuries and capitalist goldmines attained through imperial conquests. I want someone who will run this country like an adult and with some regard for people. I think she fills that bill. Although she is a political animal and has had most of her liberal instincts kicked out of her by coporate America I certainly don't think she is going to take up the Reagan/ Bushx2 campaign against the non-wealthy classes. Not exactly a ringing endorsement but I don't have real high expectations as you can see.
Oh, and Im not sure who I'm voting for. Now back to work. vl

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 10:57 AM

Akenaton says latest news from the US, Hillary Clinton is receiving a LOT of financial support from the republican right and proceeds to quote one columnist quoting another about how a statement (or statements) of hers don't reflect what they think a liberal Democrat should say. What, exactly, indicates that she is receiving a LOT of financial support from the republican right?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 03:11 PM

artbrooks...I no' speak with forked tounge.
Hillary the Rich Hawk!!

Former Republican donors lining up behind Clinton.

James Gould venture capitalist backed Bush for president is offering to run fundraising events for Clinton

Robert Weyher construction company boss donated to Bush's election campaign; now contributes to H the H.

"The closer she comes to winning, the more Clinton is aiming her rhetoric at Republicans and Independents,rather than Democratic Party activists"

Fucked again by the one party system???.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 04:07 PM

Damn! I HATE it when I agree with Bobert!


"But scarier than that is the "tool box" of executive powers that Bush has worked so hard to collect and will be left to the next executive... I don't trust Hillary any further than I can throw her and with the "tool box", I trust her even less.... This woamn will make George Bush look like an Eagle Scout helpin' old ladies accross the street..."

As I have posted, the danger in the Patriot Act is not what Bush IS doing with it, but what Hilary might.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 04:16 PM

Bet you don't hate it as much as Bobert does BB.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 04:16 PM

The danger is in what any of them might do with it. These things tend to advance in small increments rather than all happening on the same day. That way people don't notice as much what is happening.

It's like a dog shoving you off by tiny degrees so he can eventually have the center of the bed... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Oct 07 - 06:16 PM

Thank you, Akenaton. While I really don't see anyone that I'd consider as part of the "Republican right" in that article, it does appear that she is getting some contributions from Republicans.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: DougR
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 01:23 PM

van llingle: Your post of Oct. 01:"I want someone who will run this country like an adult."

Did you catch Chris Wallace's invervew with Hillary on Fox News Sunday?
I thought not. Why don't you swallow your pride and check it out on the Fox News website? You will get a glimpse of "adult" Hillary, maniacal laugh and all.

Did it ever occur to anyone here that if Republicans ARE contributing to Hillary's campaign it could be because they think Hillary would be the easiest Democrat to beat in 2008? Not EVERYBODY in the US LOVES Bill and Hillary.

Also it could be to cover their asses in the unlikely chance Hillary might be our next president.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 01:51 PM

I have it on good authority that Hillary is going to personally see to it that you are the very first one dragged off in chains to be tossed in the rattlesnake pit right after the coronation, Doug! ;-)

Better set your affairs in order. Or move to Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Oct 07 - 03:30 PM

The rattlesnakes would throw him straight out again Hawk!

As they say down in the pit....."you can always tell a rattlesnake by the company he keeps"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 06:36 AM

There's some internet chatter of the lowest kind about Hillary - at least a year ago it compared her with a baboon, most recently a chattering seagull. I've elected to say nothing about it when it passes through my inbox at work- I think it actually makes people, particularly women, tend to vote for her, which doesn't trouble me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:45 PM

Yes that surprises me as well.

Why attack her for the way she looks ,or the way she laughs, when there are so many real targets to aim at?

I think it probably says something about the American electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 01:45 PM

Yes, I've noticed that Hillary draws a particularly vitriolic and personal reaction of hatred out of certain people, and I see no justification for it. I think they're mainly just compensating for their own inner stress and using her as a handy target to dump on. If it wasn't Hillary, it would be someone else. The problem is inside them.

Just because I think she'll continue to run a foreign policy I radically disagree with is no reason to totally demonize her as a human being.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Oct 07 - 02:11 PM

Agreed Hawk

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Amos
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

An paper on the societal impact of women in leadership based on a wide study can be found on this page in Slate. Makes an interesting point about (a) how effective women have been as leaders and (b) how appreciated women are as leaders. Interesting study.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk ...Republican pin-up
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Nov 07 - 09:05 PM

Akenaton, the Reich-wing wants her to run. They think they can beat her.

Edwards scares them.