What are your memories of MSG Folk Club

Subject: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 09:56 AM

Jim Carroll's 'wild digression' ( Thread :source singers and accompaniment)minded me to put the cat among the pigeons.

Blessed Be. Bryn

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 10:17 AM

Ralph somebody?

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 10:30 AM

Monosodium glutamate ?

eric

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 10:44 AM

Manchester Sports Guild? - that brings back memories.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 11:10 AM

I remember playing there several times in the 60s - it was run by a bloke called 'Jenks' I think - can't remember what that was short for.

He had a bit of a reputation for being 'difficult'. If you turned up after the contracted time (even if you weren't due on stage until later), he would dock your pay.

IT was always a good night though, packed out - but then most clubs were in those days.

I think the bloke Giok was referring to was Ralph Smith, who used to run a chain of folk clubs in Lancashire. Amazing as it may seem nowadays, he did it as a business, and made a handsome living at it.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 11:13 AM

what was Frank's surname? - he was involved in running it when I used to go

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Mary Humphreys at work
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 11:20 AM

Frank Duffy used to MC the singers' nights. He died in the 1990s. Then Drony took over. If i recall correctly, Jenks was one of the organisers. He had the reputation of being a hard man to deal with.

I remember seeing MacColl and Bert Lloyd there. I think it may even have been Jim Carroll who encouraged me to go to see these great men.

Mary

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 11:22 AM

Emma B - it was Frank Duffy, who ran the Singers' Club on a Monday evening.

He was succeeded by the ineffable Drony.

Eic the red - sod off. It was to try and head off such comments that I qualified MSG with 'Folk Club'. Perhaps you can only read initials ?

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Emma B
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 11:24 AM

thanks Mary.

interesting web site

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Llanfair
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 02:03 PM

I used to go regularly in the '60's and '70's, and did my bit on singers nights. I remember seeing Magna Carta, Martin Carthy & Dave Swarbrick, The Oldham Tinkers, and lots more.

When it finished for the evening, I used to get the late bus home on my own. No fear except of being chatted up by some drunk.

I don't think Manchester is that safe now!!!

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 06:13 PM

I think Jenks actualy ran the whole club, not just the folk bit. He had a big Alsation dog that stayed in the 'management' digs with him. I never played there coz I was too young and not good enough anyway. But many a person has told me of wanting to go to the loo in the night and being put off by a huge hairy hound slavering outside. Not sure if it was Jenks or the dog...

My big regret is that when it had closed I was in a position to steal the sign from outside - and I didn't!

Ah well. Celler Vee as us Mancs say...

:D

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Oct 07 - 06:22 PM

Are we talking about Manchester Sports Guild here? Or, as we called it, Manchester Sports Glub? Went once when I was really only slightly underage, maybe 1968-ish. They wouldn't let me in because I didn't have a tie on. I was sick out of the window on the train back to Radcliffe from Victoria.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 06:17 AM

Are you sure it wasn't the gaff next door - 'Time and Place', a flash night club, that barred you out for not wearing a tie, Steve Shaw ?

I doubt if I even owned a tie in the days when I was one of the comperes at the Guild. A silk diklo (kerchief) round me neck, maybe, but a tie ?

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: scouse
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 06:32 AM

Did the MC job there once with "The Mathews Brothers and the "Grehan Sisters." an Christy Moore decided to have a "Newcastle Brown." drinkin' compitition!!! Anarchy ruled,great fun had by all.
As Aye,
Phil

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 09:07 AM

I never went but a gang of us ran the Pennyfarthing in Ellesmere Port. Russ used to go over and really rated it. The best bit for us was that we often got guests on Sunday that did MSG just before.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 09:35 AM

I suppose the memory may have become confused, Bryn. And thanks for reminding me of those terrible days when I wore horrible paisley silky things round my neck as well as being sick out of train windows.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Flatpick
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 11:57 AM

Yeah,
Got booked there with the Dransfields a couple of times in the 60s. Nice audience, good club.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: johnadams
Date: 09 Oct 07 - 07:04 PM

I did it a few times with The Druids and (Les?) Jenks always booked us with Hamish Imlach as top of the bill. The fee only ever covered the petrol from Derby but it was always great to see the 'big man' in action!

Dum di dum... cod liver oil and the awrendeuce!

Happy days.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,paul
Date: 22 Mar 11 - 07:10 PM

I rememember sitting on the floor in asmoke filled room with the late sun filtering through the curtains and watching paul simon am i dreaming or was that so.middle sixties.time of twisted wheel(brasenose street) oasis jungfrau and luigis cafe in albert square.and cathing the last number 8 home or the train from victoria to swinton and then a walk home.bliss left home at 5 suited and booted.not much booze perhaps a pint in the nags head try to look 18.anyone else there. email [e-mail]   Happy days

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Orson Trap
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 04:42 AM

Folk nights: Blackpool Taveners, Bernard Wrigley, Dave & June Brooks,
Watt Nichol(played 2 whistles), Wally Whyton, Jo Ann Kelly and many more. Oh, let's not forget the chinese waiter.
Blues nights: The 1st one (I think) with John Dummers Blues Band featuring Dave Kelly (Jo Ann was on upstairs and came down and did a couple of songs with the band. Simon Praeger & Steve Rye, Bob Hall and Arthur (Duke Boy) Bonner sounding just like original scratchy blues recordings.
Wish I had nicked the sign too, can't believe how long the building stood empty.
The stroll/jog back to London Road Station to catch the last train home.
I used to work at J & N Philips (Church St/Tib St)in those days.
It was just like 'Are you being served' ("are you free") only wholesale.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: doncatterall
Date: 23 Mar 11 - 07:24 AM

as mentioned in a previous thread - had some great nights at MSG

Remember going to see Martin Carthy and Jenks sitting there fuming because he'd cancelled at the last minute "to play a gig with bloody Steeleye Span" - Aly Bain and Mike Whelans were promoted to top of the bill and Tony Capstick, who happened to be in the audience did the support - terrific night.

To add to the names Alex Campbell, Christie Moore, Champion Jack Dupree, Rev Gary Davis etc, etc

I never understood why it closed because the building was to be demolished and then stood empty for years.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:35 AM

"Oh, let's not forget the chinese waiter." - His name was John.
   I remember Jenks giving the 'Liverpool Spinners' the boot. They'd played there several times,but played the same damned stuff every time.Jenks told them that unless they learned some new songs, they'd not be invited back - they never returned (God IS good). Personally, i always thought that they were pretty 'naff' anyway,jumped on the 'Folk 'bandwagon' that was all.
   The building was closed for the re-development of the area,which was thenm posponed for a number of years. I was told that Jenks was offered the chance to re-open it,but declined.Jenks had his own booking agency & i suppose that he dedicated all of his time to that.
   I remember Paul Simon playing the MSG one Saturday night. He was living in London at the time & didn't arrive for his first spot. When he did go on,he was introduced as 'the late' Paul Simon.He did a solid
1 & 1/2 hour spot & totally blew us away !!. Most of us had never heard anything like it.
   Jenks did run the whole show to some extent,but Jack Swinnerton had a great input into the running of the Jazz clubs there.
   The 'modern' jazz side of things at the MSG,Club 43, was separate from the Trad.jazz, & was run by a guy who's name i can't recall. Anyhow,he,like Frank Duffy on the Folk side,broke his contract & was booted out by Jenks. Club 43 re-established itself in a side street off Shudehill. Club 43 after it's re-location,also had a Country & Western evening on a Friday night,from 8 until midnight.For a while,after midnight,there was a Folk Club as well.You could only buy a drink if you bought a meal at the same time,this was to comply with the drink laws at the time.
   I was living in New Moston at the time, & used to travel home on the 'all night' bus service. That was a giggle in itself.There was always some drunken geezer 'rapping on' about the state of the country
or summat !.I don't know how some of those bus conductors managed it.
   The closing of the MSG was a sad loss to the Manchester music scene as a whole,not just the Folk / Jazz side of the music.Ronnie Scott's Jazz club in London was the ONLY 'better known' Jazz club,& as far as i know,only the London Folk Club 'Les Cousins' (formerly a Restaurant named 'Les Quisine') was on a par with the MSG,
                                        Regards - Ivan Kelsall
                                                 (Higher Blackley)

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 05:53 AM

Not so sure I'd agree with Ivan's description of the Spinners as "jumping on the folk bandwagon". They'd been singing together since the 1950s, and were around long before many other folk singers or groups.
But Ivan's other comment, about the sad loss, is undoubtedly the case. On the folk side, it left a vacuum that's never really been filled in terms of a "Manchester Folk Club".
Derek

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Steve C
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 05:58 PM

Noel Murphy & Shaggis - halfway through a number Shaggis played left hand banjo & right hand on guitar & Murph played the opposite - thought this was brilliant at the time (oh the wonder of Newcastle Brown!). Played the Singers night & then looked for bookings because we'd played the MSG! (worked as well!).
I remember going upstairs, after a few weeks break, & trying to work out what sort of folk music the band were playing & then finding out that the folk had moved to the cellar & we were in the jazz club! Happy Days.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Janette
Date: 01 Sep 17 - 04:08 PM

I remember the excitement of going to Manchester with friends and deciding which club it would be this week it was usually a toss up between the MSG or the Twisted wheel occasionally a different one. We used to enjoy our time there then get the last train back to Stalybridge the walk the rest of the way home. Wish it was still there and they had a pensioners night!

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 06:12 AM

Nothing but good...nay, FABULOUS! I suppose it was around 1962-66 and it feels like another world entirely now. As someone has said, Manchester felt very safe (to me - as a lone female) even quite late in the evening. Another enjoyable folk night was in a room over a pub somewhere off Deansgate...run by Harry Boardman and Terry Whelan, if memory serves.
Gillian (nee Plant)

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Barry Oates
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 12:11 AM

I've no idea whether anyone is reading this thread but ...
I was in the MSG upstairs watching Martin Carthy. I think I was 17 or 18 at the time. At the end of the evening, Tom Travers (of Tom & Smiley) invited me back to his flat in Prestwich with Martin who was spending the night there. Back at the flat, out came the guitars & I spent a very pleasant few hours playing blues with Martin. Looking back to that evening I kick myself for not asking obvious questions but in my defence I was just a young plonker.
A few years later, I was helping to run Salford University folk club & tried to book Martin when out of the blue I got a call from Jenks to go see him. Off I went to his upstairs office where we had a very pleasant chat (he was very cordial), the conlusion of which was that Martin could not perform at our club because Jenks had him on an exclusive contract to perform only at the MSG and our club fell within Jenks' domain.
Anyway, Jenks did not hold a grudge because he later booked me to perform with Tony Capstick.
All the best

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 03:08 AM

Standing outside after seeing MacColl and Seeger, having been introduced to them for the first time by Terry Whelan (a life changing introduction)
As we talked an Jag drew up to the pavement and a pretty young man stepped out and headed for the nightclub next door; - my mate Barry, a football nut, said, "That's Georgie Best"
Peggy said, "Who's Georgie Best ?"
Barry said, "Only the best football player in the world" (he'd forgotten that Liverpool was only thirty miles away, up the East Lancashire Road)
Peggy scrambles around her pockets and produced a note book and sprinted after Best - she came back with his autograph; "For Calum" she explained sheepishly

Other Memories
Picking Nigel Denver up ove afternoon for an evening performance with three other friends and taking him for a meal - Nigel got rat-arsed, despite our reminding him he was singing that night - he sang as well as he ever did

Watching Alex Campbell chuck-up in front of the audience

Singing before a lot of people for the first time, I sang, Gardener Child, Patriot Game and Go to Sa no More - Frank Duffy said I was good
Not my favourite club but good when it was good
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:23 AM

Barry Oates - it’s actually Tom “Travis”. I think he’s still around. I last ran into him at a bluegrass concert in Buxton about 5 years ago.

In case anyone doesn’t know, Ivan Kelsall, who popped up earler in this thread, and used to frequent the Guild with his banjo, died at the end of 2019.

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 05:24 AM

Barry Oates …. what year was your story about Jenks? I booked Martin Carthy for Manchester University Folk Club in 1972 and had no difficulty... it could be that Jenks had him booked with a clause prohibiting Martin from performing within a certain radius of MSG within a specific time period because of a booking at MSG. I seem to remember that was common … but Jenks knew the financial benefits of booking someone into MSG on a Saturday evening, and then arranging a Sunday night booking elsewhere in Lancashire/Cheshire. Split the travelling expenses.
Derek

Subject: RE: What are your memories of MSG Folk Club
From: GUEST,Barry Oates
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 01:24 AM

Ray
Thanks for the correction. It was a long time ago.
Re. Ivan, I seem to remember him as Buddy Holly with a banjo.

Derek
It must have been 1970. All I know is that Jenks had some hold over Martin's bookings back then. I remember Jenks as being very affable, despite his reputation.

Another name I remember was Dave Fuller, Jenks' assistant or summat. And Drony was the singers' night compere when I first started going.