BS: Forsaking all others?

Subject: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:12 PM

Is she
right?

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:14 PM

Too bad they have to fight about it. One wonders why he wasn't put where his wife wanted him in the first place?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:28 PM

How true SRS.... and sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Peace
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:42 PM

Can't access it just now, but have it earmarked for later.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:48 PM

"Forsaking all others" is a phrase usually followed by "TILL death do us part."

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:54 PM

Yes, Susan. But, does that mean that the bond undertaken is relinquished? Marriage is a finite and abolute contract in the eyes of God and, more importantly, the courts. You give yourself to your spouse in all respects. S/he become nunber one. Mom, Dad, whoever, are number two, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:04 PM

The widow would have the final say, at least in the US, assuming that she was mentally competent, etc., and that the deceased had not made any prior arrangements in writing.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM

This smacks of the Terri Schiavo case. In the US, as noted, the courts have consistently held that at marriage, the ties of the birth family are loosened, adsorbed by the new commitment. Or sump'n like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:41 PM

There really not a lot of facts in the article - we don't have the whole story. Anything we would attempt to do here would be pure guesswork.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:54 AM

The wife wasn't ware of the the Royal Mountie Cemetary at the time of his death and burial - that's stated in the article towards the end. She says she would have buried him there had she known about it.

Here's the key fact:

>>>Leo Johnston died without leaving a will, but his wife is the administrator of his estate.<<<

Anyone here who doesn't have a will duly executed and who anticipates their family possibly not honoring their wishes or the wishes of their spouse should get right on this and have one drawn up or buy one of those do-it-yourself kits and get one done.

I know that my family might not approve of my wishes to be cremated immediately without embalming. I've tried to explain to them that I feel embalming is an invasive and demeaning practice that i'd rather not have but they don't agree. They feel that if I predecease them, they have a "right" to have me embalmed so they can see "me" one last time. It's nuts, really.

To prevent any such conflict - I have a will AND I have filled out a "Pre-Need" form with a funeral home that spells out exactly what I want and don't want. I didn't have to pay anything to do this - it's merely a document that stays on file with them and a copy stays with my important papers so that when i die, the family knows who to call to come pick up the body. Then - the director will see to my wishes and my husband will pay for it. I can really cicnh this all up by shelling out for the funeral myself in advance but I'm not sure that will be necessary since my parents are far more likely to predecease me. Ah well - more stuff to think about.

Anyway - make a will and in it, include your wishes for your final needs. If you know what funeral home you will be using, ask them if they have a "Pre-Need" form. it has spaces to fill in who you want to officiate (clergy), whether you want a wake, Preferences for open or closed casket and even whether you want a casket at all. Did you know you don't actually have to have one if you're being cremated? They'll try and tell you that you have to at least have a wooden casket by law but that's BS - You can have them lay you out in a rented coffin and then toss you on the fire in a reinforced cardboard box. That's how I'm going! If they'd sew me in a sack and toss me on the fire that way I'd be even happier but apparently the cardboard box is as downscale as it goes! it permits some sense of decorum if family wish to attend the cremation and push the button that starts the fire. (lovely thought, eh?)

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 06:43 AM

Thanks Dave'sWife. Very good info.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:36 AM

It happened too with relations of mine.
The man had three grown up children with his first long-time wife. She died before him and he remarried some years later for a relatively short duration of his second marriage (no children) until he died. The quarrel about the location of the grave was between the widow and the children of the dead man with his first wife.

That is a case in which I would intuitively side with the children and not with the second wife and first widow of him. My feeling who is right depends a bit on the duration of the marriage.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:49 AM

He's dead. What does it matter?

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 09:46 AM

I'm sorry, but this is a damned stupid and childish thing to be fighting about!

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 09:47 AM

I wonder why people fight over the remains. I think it was Steve Gillette who said in a song, "Tombstones cheer the living, dear
They're no use to the dead." IMO it is the wife's decision. She was his choice as a person to spend his life with, and if he trusted her with his life then who are we (any of us) to question trusting her with his death?

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:47 PM

Funerals are for the living. If they have him cremated they can share the ashes...
Also, once you're married, if you die within the marriage, your widow/er is still your next of kin, you don't suddenly revert back to being your parents' child just because you died.
But the dead person's wishes should really play no part in it, once they have died.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:28 PM

Seems that the parents still visit the grave every day after two and a half years.

Now, I may be being a bit hard hearted, but that strikes me as excessive - sounds as if they need some sort of grief counseling to help them move on. this isn't being done on their son's behalf - this is being done for their own comfort.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: gnu
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:02 PM

Mrrzy... "But the dead person's wishes should really play no part in it, once they have died."

Hmmm. Brings up a problem which I have no say in and would rather not be party to. But, there is a question in it, sooooo...

Husband dies and names older daughter executor. Husband leaves the two daughters $x each. Older daughter tells mother she thinks younger daughter (divorced, in very poor health with Lupus, 16 year old son, is SEEN by older daughter to spend money unwisely), should not get the $x in one lump sum. Older daughter wants to establish "trust fund" which would pay younger daughter $y per month.

Here's my question. Should either the older daughter or the mother have the right to deny the lump sum payment of $x to the younger daughter?

I believe the wishes of the husband CANNOT be changed unless they are so far fetched that it becomes obvious he was not of sound mind when he set them to writing. (e.g. Anna Nicole Smith getting $xxxx, unless the old guy set in writing that he did not want his greedy, no good for nuthin, asshole relatives to get anything.)

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Becca72
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 02:04 PM

That was my thought exactly, Jacqui.

And I also agree that this is the wife's decision, not his parents'.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 06:59 PM

jacqui.c , issues of money left to survivors are completely seperate in most cases from the issue of who gets the reamins. Agauin, all the more reason to spell things out clearly in a WILL.

If you pick an executor who is controlling, be prepared for them to ignore your wishes about property. In most states within the usa, an Executor can alter the terms spelled out in the will for specific bequests of money or property. If a parent wants their children to have something they should set up a trust BEFORE they get sick or die so that nobody can screw with it. Likewise for heirlooms such as jewelry.

My grandmother promised each granchild certain pieces of family jewlery that had great sentimental value and even had it in her will but her executor, he son-in-law didn't see it that way and just said those items were not found. We know they were there and where they were but they went poof - most likely sold or put into a safety deposit box. This wasn't out of any greed in my opinion but out of his belief that certain grandhicldren were untrusworthy and likely to sell the jewelry. Was he wrong? I can't say.

What I can say is that if you have something special you want someone else to have - just give it to them NOW. if you don't use it or wear it, why not? I gave my cousins daughter an antique locket I want kept in the family. I don't waear it any longer and I fear that if I pre-decease my parents, they will withhold it from her because they dislike her. I adore her and want her to have every piece of my jewlery when I pass away as well as the family silver. She has 3 daughters to pass these things down to and she has a good heart. She has met me only a few times as an adult but writes me letters every few months and sends me photos faithfully. She is my darling girl and I want her to know I love her. So, each year, I send her a piece of my jewelry I no longer wear that has significant family history.

People need to stop waiting until they die to reward their loved ones with material blessings in my humble opinion. Share the wealth now if you can and set up irrovocable trusts for assets you still need at present.

As for what to dow tih you when you are dead - get that all wrapped up now as well. Save your family the pain of a dispute.

Subject: RE: BS: Forsaking all others?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 07 - 07:15 PM

Digging up someone once they've been buried is a pretty sick thing to do, unless there's an overwhelmingly powerful reason (eg suspicion of murder). I can't see any remotely adequate reason in this case.

The right thing to do in would surely have been to leave the man be, and arrange for some kind of memorial plaque or something like that to be added to the Royal Mountie Cemetery. There must be other Mounties who have been killed in the course of their duties whose bodies haven't been available to be buried there.

No doubt there's more family history behind this strange story.