BS: bread-baking question

Subject: BS: bread-baking question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:29 PM

I am not a gifted bread baker, but I like to make cracked-wheat bread. There aren't many recipes for it, and the one I have been using produces a rather moist bread with a tough top. When I slice the loaf, the effort of getting through the top causes the bread beneath to break into pieces.

What can I do to make the top surface be less tough?

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:43 PM

How are the crusts on the ends of the loaf and the sides?

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:53 PM

The ends and sides are okay - softer than the tops.fine. It's only the tops that are too tough and cause the loaf to crumble.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Melissa
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 09:57 PM

the top will probably soften if you put a damp tea towel (not the fuzzy kind!) on the loaf when you take it out of the oven. That's what I do when my bread looks like it might turn tough.

I think that's why it's traditional to rub butter on top of rolls/bread..to keep the top from getting tough?

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:24 PM

I was going to suggest that you might try greasing the top of the dough (lightly!) and lightly putting a piece of foil over it. That might hold in moisture and help keep the top softer.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:40 PM

I think you both almost have it right. Butter, margarine, lard, whatever and a soft, moist cloth.

But, I can't make bread either. Something new and different always goes wrong.

It all comes down to Too Much or Too Little, just like everything else in life.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Melissa
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 10:59 PM

...of course, it might be easier to just turn the loaves over to cut?

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Nov 07 - 11:29 PM

Grease it AFTER it comes out of the oven. Also you could try putting it to bake on a lower shelf in the oven-- which is hotter at the top where the top of the loaf is, so that it is overbaking while the rest of the loaf is still getting done. A less-full pan might help as well, giving the middle time to cook before the top toasts.

Cut more gently and wait until it is all REALY cool, and be sure you have a good serrated bread knife, and it should cut no matter how crusty it is. And yes, I have cut them from the side for just this problem.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 02:58 AM

Brush the top with milk before baking, this creates a soft top loaf.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: open mike
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 03:05 AM

make sure you are using a serrated knife to slice it.
also some folks use a wooden slicing tray with "side boards"
that have slots to slice thru...sort of like a jig that is used
to cut lumber or boards at a certain angle (if you know what i mean)

like this..http://www.amazon.com/Norpro-Bread-Slicer-Crumb-Catcher/dp/B00004UE6T
or just google "bread slicing"...

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Grab
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 06:47 AM

Or just brush the top with water before baking - that also helps.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:07 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've tried several kinds of serrated knife, so it's not the knife.

I'll try these various suggestions. I love Melissa's outside-the-box idea of slicing the bread upside-down.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Bert
Date: 15 Nov 07 - 12:14 PM

Turn the loaf on its side with the top towards you. Use a SHARP knife.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 01:40 AM

wysiwyg has the most complete answer here so far.

Butter on the top of the loaf when you take it out, and don't bother with a moist towel. You want some kind of crust, otherwise you might as well buy that spongy store bread.

I bake several times a week. If the top comes out odd, it's usually because I wasn't paying attention and it rose too long.

In your case, this could be it, but it also sounds like you may have too much dough for the pan you're using. Try baking in a larger pan, or without a pan at all--a round loaf on a flat sheet that comes out looking like an Italian loaf will be uniformly crusty. But first, I would suggest you split your batch in half and bake it in two slightly smaller loaf pans so the top doesn't swell so much over the lip and cook so dry. And time the second rising. An hour is plenty; it sounds like the air bubbles in the top are too large (from rising too long) and are drying out too fast during baking.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 10:14 AM

Since people were interest enough to offer suggestions, I think an update is in order.

I've visited a friend who is an expert baker. She talked about the gluten network in a loaf, and I realized that I have not been giving the gluten network enough time to develop. In order to get the bread to rise at all, I've been putting it n the oven above a tea kettle filled with hot water. That was too much heat, and the bread rose too fast. I still do it, but now I fill the kettle only halfway.

The original recipe called for baking at 375 and I've decided to use 350 instead. That helps. I still get the rather tough crust, but the problem is not as bad as before. I had a third idea - I use kitchen shears to snip a line in the top crust of the finished loaf, then I slice it with a bread knife.

I considered the idea of baking the bread at the bottom of the oven, but my intuition says it's going to be way too cool down there.

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 10:59 PM

Maybe try using a different oven. I bake mine most often in the convection oven. I bake there at 350 and for 25 minutes (it would be 35 minutes and 375 in the regular oven).

I have a roaster oven I'm going to be doing some baking in soon. My mom always had great results that way, but I haven't had a roaster until recently, when my glass bowl convection oven finally died and I thought I'd try something new.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 22 Dec 07 - 01:03 AM

I will assume you are remembering to soak the cracked wheat overnight and drain it before adding it to your sponge.

Use three diagonal cuts, (1/4" deep), instead of one long cut.

Brush the top of the loaf with butter after you take it out of the oven.

btw - If you like cracked wheat, try sprouted wheat!

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 22 Dec 07 - 10:16 AM

Stilly River Sage, you suggested doing a free-standing loaf.

I like such a loaf, and I've repeatedly tried it in the past, but with rather indifferent results. The loaf always more or less spread out, with a fairly sharp angle where the dome of the bread met the surface, instead of standing up with what I will call "sidewalls".

In the process of playing with this problem I did try adding extra gluten powder to the mix, but no luck.

I was not hurrying the rising time with extra moist heat, and I don't think I was skimping on rising time. I thought I had given plenty of time kneading.

Do you have any thoughts on what to do about this?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: bread-baking question
From: GUEST,Jeff
Date: 23 Dec 07 - 01:21 AM

Jeff's Honey Whole Wheat

2.5 lbs whole wheat flour(Gold Medal or King Arthur)
2.5 lbs unbleached white(anybrand, but King Arthur's the best)
2 pack Red Star or Fleischman dry yeast...NOT Quick rise
3 TbSpn Pure Vanilla(or more...or less to suit)
1/2-3/4 cup honey(anykind, but the darker the better...DON'T use molassas)
1/2-3/4 cup oil(olive oil's great, but generic is just fine)
2-3 tablespoon salt
3 large eggs

Heat mixing bowl by filling it w/hot water and let stand 3-4 mins.
Empty water bowl and fill 1/4 w/hot water. Mix in 1-2 cups of whole wheat flour and honey until 'spoupy'.
Then add dryed yeast, mix thoroughly and let stand till you see 'action'(Bubbles and lumps)

Add balance of ingedients and stir as much as possible using plain old table fork. When mixed thoroughly dump out onto the counter and begin the kneeding process. "Feel' if the mixture is too dry or too wet(sticks to your hands) by adding water and flour, respectively. Kneed for at least 15-20 mins. When done kneeding dough wash the mixing bowl and dry it. Then take a 'palmful' of oil and coat the mixing bowl. Dump the dough into the bowl and coat the dough w/the oil. Let stand in a warm place covered w/a plastic 'kitchen size' plastic trash bag. Away from the oven which should be heating to 350-375 BAKE @ this point. Let bread rise until at least 2x the size of the original. Dump dough onto counter and 'punch down'. Roll it into a ball and tuck the edges making it a round loaf. Re-oil the mixing bowl and let rise again. Cover the mixing bowl each time w/a plastic trash bag so as to not allow air flow but not touching the top of the loaf. When this is done grease 4 regular aluminum pie pans available at any food store. When dough has risen a 2nd time dump it onto the counter and cut ut into 4 sections BEFORE punching them dowm. Prefer a long serrated bread knife for this.

Then fashion 4 round loaves making sure to finish each one w/t top smooth and the 'kneeding squeezes' on the bottom. Oil the top of each loaf liberally. Enclose each loaf in it's pie pan in a plastic shopping bag and let rise a half hour to an hour. The loaf should be risen to the edge of the pie pan. Depending on your oven you may want to go to 350 instead of 375 if it runs hot. Then pop all four into the oven on the mid level while removing the upper tray as sometimes the loaves will rise into them. Set the timer for 50 mins and rotate the loaves at the 25 min mark. Check the bottom at 50 mins. If dark brown remove from oven and pie pan and cool asap. Have cooling area set aside. Your loaves may go a little longer or shorter depending on your oven and mix.

I've been making this bread for over 25 years and while it's not perfect, it's very consistant and will yeild enough for you and several friends. If someone tries this and likes it let me know as I've got a recipe for cocao, blackstrp molassas rye that is very dark and heavy, but is very hearty w/dark soups.

Th recipe amounts are suggested amounts as my bread is slightly different each time but the 'quality and taste' are very consistent.