Origins: Master of the Sheepfold

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 04:44 PM

Bill, I'm not sure which song is older but there are definately common lines.

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Art Thieme
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 04:40 PM

that's www.waterbug.com

Art

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Art Thieme
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 04:39 PM

you can hear the tune at my part of the Waterbug Records web site. Click on my name there and then click on tha audio samples.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: MMario
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:46 AM

I was just about to post Jeri:

"This is still one of the "Missing Tunes"

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:34 AM

Has the tune been done yet? I could - I've actually managed to learn the song because of these threads and Art's beautiful recording.

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:23 AM

here's a link to my scanned version that I posted in another thread...seems like a more 'primitive' version

Poor Lil Brack Sheep

originally in thread

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=5364

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: GUEST,Charley Noble
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:14 AM

Now that I've re-read the posts, J.M. Whyte is apparently the source for the words and chorus that Wendy wrote down.

Charley Noble, still without a Cookie

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: GUEST,Charley Noble
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 11:10 AM

Here's another update on this song, which provides a new clue to where the chorus came from. Wendy's (Winifred L. Holt) son Phil just dropped off three of her song notebooks and I was able to find her original notes on "De Massa ob de Sheepfol'". Wendy did attribute the words to J.M. Whyte and the lyrics she wrote down came from a Miss McLean and included the chorus as follows:

For de Massa guards de sheepfol' bin
An' he wan's to know, "Is my sheep come in?"
An' he's callin', callin'
Callin' softly, softly callin'
For dem all to come gadderin' in.

Other than that the words are very close to the original poems as described above. The words apparently came with the familar tune but there was no musical notation other than suggested keys for group singing.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 08:29 AM

Art - I think this one has been nailed as to author, and I concede the version I pasted in above is not missing any lines as I've suggested. I do think the folk-processing that has taken place over the years has definitely improved Sarah pratt's poem.

I had the fun of singing Bill and Gene's version to Wendy Holt's family just a couple of weeks ago, when they were here in Maine for a land trust neeting. Rod Holt, the eldest son, remembered some of the verses and Phil Holt, the youngest son, has promised to make available to me his mother's notes on the songs she collected. I believe Wendy's version arrived with chorus in place and the tune. There's a little more digging to do.;-)

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:30 PM

Here's her poem:

http://www.bartleby.com/248/1328.html

Art

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:11 PM

From Texas??? Very interesting.

Just put "Sarah Pratt McLean Greene" in a search engine and you will find all sorts of stuff even a photograph.

Love,

Art

Subject: LYR:ADD.: De Massa ob de Sheepfol'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 05:01 PM

There's a number of threads this information could have been added to but this one seems to be the most complete. Bill and Gene Bonyun (note correct spelling of last name) are the ones who dessiminated this song to many folk singers in New England in the 1950's and 1960's. They got the song from my mother Dahlov Ipcar, who in turn got the song from a friends of hers Wendy Holt who was said to have collected it in Texas.

An earlier version in "Negro dialect" was repronted in HEART THROBS: in Prose and Verse, published by Grosset & Dunlap, NY, in 1906, pp. 133. That version appears to be incomplete, missing a couple of lines in the second verse, not being consistent with the refrain, and lacking the chorus that most people sing now. It is attributed to Sally Pratt McLean with a question mark. I still find it interesting even in this early and somewhat incomplete form:

DE MASSA OB DE SHEEPFOL'
(By Sally Pratt McLean (?) as reprinted in Heart Throbs: in Prose & Verse, Grosset & Dunlap, NY, 1906)

De Massa ob de sheepfol'
Dat guard de sheepfol' bin,
Look out in de gloomerin' medder,
Whar de long night rain begin –
So he call to de hirelin' shepa'd,
"Is my sheep, is dey all come in?"*

"Oh," den, says de hirelin' shepa'd.
"Deys some deys black and thin,
An' some deys po' ol' wedders,**
But de res' deys all brung in;
But de res' deys all brung in."

Den de Massa ob de sheepfol'
Dat guard de sheepfol' bin,
Goes down in de gloomerin medders,
Whar de long night rain begin –
So he le' down de ba's o' de sheepfol'
Callin' sof, "Come in, come in;"
Callin' sof, "Come in, come in."

Den up t'ro de gloomerin' medders,
T'ro de col' night rain an' win',
An' up t'ro de gloomerin' rain-paf,
Whar de sleet fa's piecin' thin,
De po' los' sheep o' de sheepfol',
Dey all comes gadderin' in;
De po' los' sheep o' de sheepfol',
Dey all comes gadderin' in.***

* Missing a repeated last line as printed.
** Missing two lines as printed.
*** This is the usual form of the refrain as people now sing it.

---

Another version of this poem is at Bartleby.com (click)

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Arkie
Date: 02 May 99 - 10:51 PM

Campfire, Frank, & Joe, Thanks for your responses. I had been to the thread on Art's CD, but somehow missed the post by Barbara. Found it this time. The Brack Sheep thread must have been the other one I was looking for. My friend, Deborraha, will be happy to get this info. She does a nice version of the song as does Margaret Nelson from the Chicago area. Thanks also to Art for putting this fine song on a recording so it has been and can be passed on. Finally, thanks to Dale Rose who emailed further information from his research on the song. arkie

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 May 99 - 04:04 AM

Click here to get to the thread with full information on Art's CD. The lyrics are in the database - search under sheepfold or be lazy and click here.
I've found this song on a few CD's, and each seems to be connected somehow to the infamous Art Thieme. I see in the database that Art may have learned it from Jerry Epstein. Sure enough, it's on Jerry's great CD called Time Has Made a Change in Me. Here's what Jerry says in the notes:

The Massa of the Sheepfold is from a genre of pseudo-Black dialect "spirituals" that had a vogue around the turn of the century. I learned it my first summer at Pinewoods Camp (1965) from Susan Richardson Slyman. She told me that she had learned it from Bill Boyun who had collected it in Maine. Lucy simpson has found a printed version in an old hymnal where it was titled "De Massa Ob De Sheepfold." Not a prime example of political correctness in this day and age. Good song, though. I get more requests for this than for any other song.

CD's from Art and Jerry are available at Folk-Legacy Records.

Art's CD booklet goes on to say that Cindy Mangsen and Anne Hills learned it from Art and recorded it on their Never Grow Up CD, and Cindy told Art she found the poem in an "outrageous Afro-American dialect" written by Sarah Pratt McLean Greene (born in Connecticut in 1856, died in Massachusetts in 1935).
All three recordings of the song are great, but I like Art's best.
-Joe Offer-

Also see this thread.

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Frank of Toledo
Date: 02 May 99 - 03:12 AM

Our fellow Mudcatter Art Thieme has this on his recent Waterbug CD "The Older I Get, The Better I Was". I've been waiting for Art to answer this, but I'll give you the liner nots from his CD..."The Master of the Sheepfold" Eventuall, if we search long and hard enough, we will find that there is an author/composer for just about every song sung! I(Art), learned this song from Jerry Epstein at New York Pinewoods folk camp in Plymouth, Ma. in August of 1982. Jerry told me that it had been collected in Maine by Bill Bonyun years earlier. It had been brought to Pinewoods Camp by Susan Richardson. I was the first one to record the song. I did that on my second Folk Legacy LP and cassette (still available) Art Thieme - On The Wilderness Road (FSI-105)

Subject: RE: Master of the Sheepfold
From: campfire
Date: 02 May 99 - 01:15 AM

Is this "Brack Sheep" thread the one you are looking for?

Subject: Master of the Sheepfold
From: Arkie
Date: 02 May 99 - 12:59 AM

Will some kind soul point me in the direction of the tread that discussed the Master of the Sheepfold. I have a friend who sings the song and wanted to pass the info that was contained in the thread on to her. Have tried filters and searches of past threads and drew a blank. Thanks!