 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Looking for (good) software for writers
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 23 Nov 07 - 08:23 PM I write bits and pieces for newsletters, web-sites and such and after concentrating on music over the past couple of years want to get back to writing fiction. I'm not very organized, and would like to try out SW that might help me keep my ideas on time-line, plot, characterisation, etc. organised. Up to now I've been using different kinds of text files but keeping an overview of dozens and dozens of these is getting a bit tough. Thanks for any ideas. Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Bee Date: 23 Nov 07 - 09:43 PM By text files, do you mean word processing software like Word Perfect and Microsoft Word? I'm ten years out of any aspect of desktop publishing, but if word processors aren't intuitive enough for you, you might try DTP software like Pagemaker or Quark Express (or whatever they use now). Pagemaker in particular is very intuitive - you can write your bits in any kind of text file, then drag and drop it wherever you like in your Pagemaker file, edit it, make columns, place pictures, and so on - all of which you could do with a word program, but not with such visual ease. It's a thought. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: katlaughing Date: 24 Nov 07 - 12:02 AM Hi, Gulliver, I am a writer and editor. I use WORD for large files, but for all of the bits and pieces I want to keep organised I use a wonderful WP program called Yeah Write. It looks like legal pad paper with as many file "drawers" as you want and each drawer has file TABS at the top (they look just like real ones)with different labels including Diary, To Do Notes, Letters, etc. You don't have to worry about putting dates on things or remembering to save as it does it automatically. When you open a "Drawer" you will see all of the files under each tab listed in whatever sorting order you want, with the title and first line, so it makes it really easy to "put your fingers" on the right piece. I think you can use a free download version to try it out, but I highly recommend paying the $19 for the full program. I found out about it here at the Mudcat years ago. I've been using it about 8 years or so now and still love it. It's simple, the company is great with backup, though I've only had to call once, and it doesn't have any extra bells and whistles to muck things up or get complicated. Oh, and I don't get a cent for this endorsement!**smile** Hope this helps, kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: JohnInKansas Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:59 AM Being a bit too lazy to go looking for a new program for each little task, I've found it a lot easier just to learn to use what I have. I have several "miscellaneous" files in Word that work fairly well for me for keeping odd "bits that I might want later. The key is to bookmark each item as you enter it. Type a short, descriptive name (the label for the bookmark). Highlight it and "Alt-I, k" and type a tagname and click OK or Enter to make it a bookmark. (Or use Insert|Bookmark from the toolbar.) The label (what you highlighted) can be anything. The bookmark "tagname" itself, the bookmark name you put in the box, must begin with a letter and can't contain spaces or quote marks, but you can use something like "_" as a replacement for a space if you find it necessary. The tag can include numbers, as long as they're not the initial character. Once each item is entered, you go to the top (or end) of the file and put in a hyperlink to the bookmark. The list of links is your index to the stuff you've saved. Enter an "identification" for the item and highlight it. (You can do that by pasting the same label you used for the bookmark.) Alt-i, i, Alt-o, and click the book mark. Okay or Enter and you're linked. (Or use Insert|hyperlink|bookmark) You can set word to "go to a link" on a single click or to require a Ctl-click depending on your preference. You can use Table|Sort to sort the index, so you can enter the links in any order and sort later. The paragraph that includes the link doesn't have to be all included in the link. If you avoid using paragraph breaks within an index entry (use Shift-Enter instead, or tabs or any consistent break character like a "_", You can include comments along with the "bookmark label that's the link," using tabs or other "distinctive separators" so that a Table|Sort by Fields lets you sort by comments or other "tags" that you pick to use - as long as you're consistent in how you list your labels when you enter them. If you choose to set Word to "convert web addresses to hyperlinks" you can paste web addys in your links list (index) or anywhere in your notes. When you space or break the line at after the paste, it will be made into a link you can click or Ctl-click to open the pages you've saved as sources. (If you set to make links, highlighting the link and Ctl-Shift-F9 will "unlink" them, for the times when you forget the Ctl-Z to cancel the conversion on one you want to remain plain text.) By having lots of your notes in a single document you can use Word's search to locate items, even if your index didn't get the details needed to jog your memory when it comes time to find something. Word search is very powerful if you learn to use it reasonably fluently, and if you apply some "logic" as you create your notes, especially if you put in a few "key words" at each entry. The "key words" don't have to be put in the index, since searching within a single document – even a very large one – is fairly quick. Although my Word 2002 says that the maximum size for a Word file is 32 MB, I have a few, especially of this kind, around 80 MB - which is a lot of "stuff." A random example is one Word file at 4 MB that's about 700 pages of "notes"- - but I can still find individual items with a fairly quick click on the links – if I remembered to make them when I put in a note … … or with a search if I didn't make links. A real convenience is that since you can sort the index (the list of links at one end or the other of the document) it doesn't matter where/when you enter a new item – as long as you make the index/link entry before you forget about it, or if you put appropriate keywords with the note and/or remember enough distinctive detail to search. For a couple of "special indexes" where notes are consistently sized and fairly short you can set page size to "Index Card" size (I use 5 x 8 a lot). You get a lot of pages, but it's really easy to "print current page" to extract a single note. John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: JohnInKansas Date: 24 Nov 07 - 06:15 AM If you're "obsessively organized" or if you have special needs like your indication that you need separate "plots, time line, characterization" and such, in Word you can create a "paragraph style" for each kind of information. In the "expanded format/style menu" that you get when you click the little "AA" next to the box where it probably says "Normal" on your Word toolbar, you can right-click on a style and "select all instances" of that style. Copy (Ctl-C) and paste (Ctl-V) into a new document, and you have all your notes of that kind in one document that you can sort, search, copy/paste, or just review. Discard the document when done, since it's so easy to re-extract what you want, and you don't want to have to update notes in more than one place. The only problem with this method is that it requires a minor bit of "prior thinking" and the habit of applying the paragraph style(s) when you enter a new note. In the same expanded format bar, you can select "show styles in use" to make it a lot easier to find the few styles you may want when making notes. The selection here stays in effect when you close the big bar and revert to the "style box" on the main toolbar. You don't really care how big your "notes" file is, as long as you can find what you want quickly, so there's nothing wrong with copying a note and having the same note repeated with different styles, to help with finding stuff later, if you want to use this method. John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: katlaughing Date: 24 Nov 07 - 12:35 PM Aye-yi-yi, John!*bg* Try Yeah Write - it's MUCH easy and less involved! AND it's a small program - won't take up too much space! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:34 PM Many thanks for these suggestions. The way I work for fiction is that I generally write the outline in Word and make it as detailed as I can. I break this into chapters and start writing the chapters in a simple text editor (I used to use DOS-based editors because they are fast, no-frills) to get the basic text down quickly. As I'm writing I keep thinking of new bits of plot or characters that I want to insert somewhere along the line, so I'll make quick notes of these and save them. When the chapters are sufficiently developed I transfer them to Word and then start inserting the ideas on plot, characters, etc., that I've saved as text files. And this is what seems to take up a huge amount of time, moving backwards and forwards, re-writing and re-plotting, checking and double-checking through all files to ensure I haven't covered the same topic already and brought in inconsistencies. I've downloaded one program, called BookWriter, that I'm trying out at the moment by developing a plot for a future project, but I'll take a careful look at all the above suggestions over the next few days. Thanks, Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Bill D Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:07 PM If you are still looking, take a look at TreePad Lite. it does many of the things you ask for...and allows YOU to organize as you wish. The main page is just http://www.treepad.com |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: mg Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:47 PM Why not just write in word? For straight prose there is no formatting and you would not have to go back and forth. I can't see the advantage of using other programs when there is really nothing special you have to do in word except start right and remember to autosave every 1 minute. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:50 PM mg, some people are 'straight-ahead' writers, others add saved bits and pieces that they have kept or new ideas- sometimes leftovers that didn't work their way into an earlier 'opus.' Gulliver seems to be the latter type. I did a lot of technical writing for publication, and new bits of stuff were constantly being added as the article developed. Sometimes another researcher would be added to the team and his material incorporated. At the time I didn't have programs such as Kat and Bill D suggest- Much time in writing, revising and proofing could have been saved. "Start right"- Oh, yeah! Sometimes the beginning was the last part written. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: katlaughing Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:02 PM I have to confess I used a play on the title of the program I touted up above, when I took part in National Novel Writing Month NaNoWriMo, last year. All of my posts and my profile included a tag line of "If it is meant to be, it is up to me. Yeah, Write!" It kept me going and I completed that novel in one month! I still use it on some things. Wasn't able to do nanowrimo this year due to other things getting in the way. Good luck to you, Don. kat |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: redsnapper Date: 25 Nov 07 - 06:58 AM I do a lot of writing and haved started using an idea mapping programme to plot things, including sources and interrelationships, out visually. The one I use is FreeMind which is, er, free. It's written in Java, so is cross-platform, and entries can be hyperlinked to internet or local files on one's computer. RS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 27 Nov 07 - 01:55 AM Just in reply to Mg's query: I only started writing fiction four years ago (before that I was in technical writing and translation), then took a break over the past two years to fulfil a long-cherished dream of playing in folk sessions, so I'm not terribly experienced at writing fiction (though I have done a lot of technical writing). To give you an idea of length, I generally aim at at least 100 pages, to get a story as close to novel length as I can--the one I'm currently working on has about 200 pages so far and counting. The stories are murder mysteries set in the Victorian era and I never know the perpetrator or even many of the characters when I start, but once I get into writing the ideas start flooding in, and I have to get them down somehow, even when I'm deeply focused on writing some chapter. So as I said earlier on I end up with dozens upon dozens of these notes on plot, scraps of characterization, things to research, etc. From my technical writing background I've been trained to edit, re-write, and edit again, and while doing this I get lots more ideas, so it's a matter of finding the most efficient way of dealing with all of this, and from past experience I reckon a good program would help a lot. I've gone through lots of programs over the past 25 years, but this a new requirement for me and I'm sure I'll hit upon the right one for the task. Thanks, Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: M.Ted Date: 27 Nov 07 - 11:30 AM "writing software" (and other "creative" software) tends to be either offers tools for particular a system of preparation and organization, or tries to offer tools for all systems of preparation and organization. Since every one has their own approach, the first is restrictive, and the second is just too confusing. I want to know which software William Shakespeare used. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: katlaughing Date: 27 Nov 07 - 12:00 PM Don, just a tip, from an editor and writer...it's more common to use a word count rather than page count in order to judge size of a novel/written work. A good "round" number to shoot for, for a novel, is 50,000 words. Page count depends on your format used, etc. and quite often your format isn't set at exactly what a publisher will want. The agency I edit for requires everything to be double-spaced which adds to the page count. Obviously a book isn't going to be published double-spaced, so it's best to keep with the word count. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: JohnInKansas Date: 27 Nov 07 - 12:23 PM Any competent editor/publisher most likely would prefer that you do NO FORMATTING or layout. The usual preference is double-spaced plain text - PERIOD - from authors. A few years back LiK got a panic call from a friend(?) who had written a rather large book on the History of Alcoholics Anonymous In the US with the information that he'd already contracted with a printer and the book was due "next week." And - oh, yeah, by the way, "I typed it all in uppercase TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE REVIEWERS." He'd also used a very primitive word processor and had inserted line breaks (typewriter style) at the end of every line. It didn't get all the normal edits/proofs/layout/galley/re-proof quality control, but it made it to the printer and wasn't too bad a book. (As a "friend" he didn't pay us what it was worth, of course; but we were small and could work in a favor then.) Keep it simple. John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Bill D Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:28 PM "Keep it simple" indeed! And simple can mean not using Word. For one thing, it is not a given that everyone automatically HAS Word. It so happens that I do, and my wife uses it often...but I do very little writing & editing that requires that much 'power'. I have a number of smaller programs that I use for various purposes...some of which have features that Word does not, and all of which are less intimidating for a low volume user. (A couple of these will even open and edit .DOC files). If I just need to make a list, copy some text, do some cute creations with different fonts & colors or perform some arcane manipulations on text (or even HTML), I can 'usually' do them faster & easier in some really elegant, clever little programs. It may not be for everyone, but check out the special tricks you can do in Columnizer or Edxor |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Bill D Date: 27 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM If you are curious, take a look even at TextShield Fusion or CryptEdit Or even Atlantis Nova, which is one that can do .DOC files, and a lot more. Finally, AbiWord, which is quite powerful, and similar to Word. (All that I mention are freeware) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: dick greenhaus Date: 27 Nov 07 - 11:42 PM As a retired editor, I still shudder to recall the hours I spent converting the work of contributing writers from their own pet formats. I was happiest when people submitted unformatted text-only manuscripts (or should that be digiscripts?)or, at least, in Word which, for better or worse, is something of a standard. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 28 Nov 07 - 02:30 AM BEST = 4X5 note-cards....accessable in any format to any reader (of the language notated) and will work in a blackout.
Worst format - cheap toilet tissue with soft pencil - notes taken in the rain and sacrificed to a gorgous blond after vomiting on Red Mountain wine.
Sincerely,
For universal application convert your material to "Plain Text" the ASCII standard....should be readable into the next century.
WE are talking TEXT (words/manuscripts) NOT programing language.
For a different point of view on 8bit try: |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:11 AM If anyone is interested, one of my stories, a Sherlock Holmes adventure set in Devon around the turn of the 20th century is here: The Case of the Japanese Ghost About 20,000 words. I'd be grateful for any feedback. Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: GUEST,pattyClink Date: 28 Nov 07 - 04:30 PM Don't use anything weird no matter how useful. I have works of writing I lost by using a specialized program that was used 'universally' years ago, now I can't load the program anymore on a modern system and nothing else will read the files. There's a lot to be said for just using a text editor and storing in .txt or .rtf formats, they will still be readable for a long time. WordPerfect is the favorite of many writers because you can control its codes easily. Word is fascist and hard to control. StarOffice / OpenOffice is free and will save/read those formats, plus store picture files a whole lot better. Most software will let you 'CTRL-F' to search for words or phrases in a document, and you can get that Google add-on that lets you search your hard drive the same way(or some similar cheapware). That's the only extra bell or whistle I would want to make sure I don't lose track of my stuff, and it's already there. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Bill D Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:19 PM and I didn't even mention Metapad, EditPadLite or BVDnotepad ooops...there I go again....but EditPad Lite is a VERY useful little program for fast tasks....its big brother is even cleverer, but it ain't free. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Nov 07 - 05:39 PM WordPerfect is the favorite of many writers because you can control its codes easily 1. Authors should not be using any codes in a manuscript for submittal to a publisher. 2. It is only the refusal of Word(im)Perfect users to look at the toolbar that causes the persistence of their belief that codes that don't show in the text aren't there in Word. [just tweaking, to hear the screams, of course] John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: katlaughing Date: 28 Nov 07 - 06:29 PM LOL...I *hear* them, too, John. Gulliver, thanks for the link. I look forward to reading it over the weekend. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: GUEST,pattyClink Date: 28 Nov 07 - 11:25 PM Johnin, 1. I think the person who started the thread was wanting to use software for organizing notes, not just for generating digital book manuscripts. Try to produce an outline, printed play or film script without using codes. Unless you're in love with your space bar, you need a few. your 2. accusation is not true in my case (I didn't say I believed "codes that don't show in the text aren't there".) Other intelligent, computer-capable people I've known also don't like Word for good reasons, but thanks for the slam to all of us. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: JohnInKansas Date: 29 Nov 07 - 06:07 AM GUEST,pattyClink As I noted, it was a "tweak" not a slam. If you are familiar with WordPerfect, and it meets your needs, then there is no real reason for you to switch. Having known a rather large number of professional wordprocessing workers who have used both, I have met many among job-shop/contract workers who might be sent to one "typing pool gulag" one month and to a different one the next, and must be able to use both/either program competently and interchangeably. Among those who have learned to use both WordPerfect and Word, professionally and interchangeably, with competence in both, I have NOT MET any who continue to prefer WordPerfect. It is the WordPerfect users who continually claim "you can't do that in Word" or "it's harder to do that in Word." Both claims are FACTUALLY FALSE. You may claim "I know how to do that in WordPerfect and I'd have to learn a different method in Word," and I have no argument with you. It is FACT that there are many people who've learned "to do that" in both programs and who have continued to use both programs professionally when/as required. These people consititently, uniformly, and inavariably prefer Word when they have a choice between the two. This does NOT MEAN that I'd recommend that you change programs if what you're using does, for you, what you need to do. [Quite possibly the situation may change soon. Having just acquired a new (laptop) computer running Vista, with the newest Office 2007 installed, I find they've removed, disabled, or hidden many of the most useful (to me) Word features, so I'll have let you know later whether the "new Word" remains useful for anything.] John |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Green Man Date: 29 Nov 07 - 08:10 AM This works for me, Software Have a look and try it. GM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 30 Nov 07 - 07:34 PM Guest PattiClink wrote: I think the person who started the thread was wanting to use software for organizing notes, not just for generating digital book manuscripts That's more or less right, a program, aimed towards writers, that can help organise my work. I'm taking a look at all the suggestions. Re Editpluslite, I downloaded the freeware version recently as I was looking for a replacement for notepad in particular for on-the-fly corrections to web pages using View-Source in IE. However this program installed itself as the defaul HTML editor in IE (at this point I had already found my HTML editor of choice in Metapad), and I couldn't dislodge it. I had to uninstall it and get rid of it. I hate this kind of behaviour! Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Amos Date: 08 Dec 07 - 01:07 PM If you use a Mac at OS X 10.xx, then the software called Scrivener is designed for exactly your needs. See this description. And this review. Looks very good. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 08 Dec 07 - 05:15 PM Yes, that does indeed look interesting, but I've got MS Windows and won't be changing my OS anytime in the near future. For Windows these folk recommend the program PageFour (at www.softwareforwriting.com/pagefour.html. I've been a bit tied for time recently but I do intend checking all the systems recommended above. Thanks, Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: GUEST,Bill D Date: 08 Dec 07 - 06:04 PM I never had any problems with EditPadLite....under 'options'-> 'configure file types', it has several ways to set the associations for Windows, including an option to REMOVE any associations. It's kinda deep in the menus, but it is a good program that can be controlled. Sorry you had a hassle with it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Dec 07 - 10:11 PM I bought a soft-ware program a number of years back that was supposed to help organize one's writing. If you put something down on the page, you hit a key and it gave you a series of selections with which to follow up. If you did this religiously for a number of pages, you ended up with a text that looked like Nora Roberts wrote it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Rapparee Date: 08 Dec 07 - 11:23 PM Wordperfect. You can open or save documents in danged near any format, from ASCII text to Wordstar 1.0 to the latest Word. And the "Reveal Codes" feature alone makes it superior to 'most everything else. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Gulliver Date: 11 Dec 07 - 11:43 AM When I got my first PC about 18 years ago I used Wordperfect all the time and loved it, but due to the fact that I was working first for IBM and after that for Olivetti I had to use their word processors of choice so WP fell by the wayside. I thought that they went out of business a few years ago (I read an account by an ex-founder describing the decline)--I had no idea WP was still around. A text editor that I'm currently trying out (which can also support RTF and Word formats) is Jarte. I like the slick interface and tabs. Don |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: Rapparee Date: 11 Dec 07 - 11:47 AM Corel makes Wordperfect, which is in the X3 (13th) release. Open Office is pretty good as well. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Looking for (good) software for writers From: DaveP Date: 25 Apr 08 - 03:24 AM Try Google to find information on the FREE software called YWRITER Written by a writer! Regards, DaveP |
