BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election

Subject: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:58 AM

and his party loses the election. about bloody time.

Govt - 58 seats
Opposition - 83

Australia votes 2007

tho my local member kept his seat, bugger, his campaign to tell everyone how Green he was by filling our letterboxes with brochures seemed to have worked, even tho as Minister for the Environment he approved a pulp mill in an almost pristine area. He spent lots of his own money on leaflets & expensive pamphlets telling us what a great bloke he was (his wife even told us so in one brochure) & how he was an ordinary bloke (he takes buses!!)

but his party lost & I wonder what will be happen in the party room when they have to elect a leader. Will the current Deputy Prime Minister, the next Prime Minister according to the (outgoing) Prime Minister really get elected by his colleagues unopposed as the (outgoing) PM has been saying.

oh, to be a fly on the wall.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:02 AM

As I said - "No Ads Till the Result!"


:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM

how's thing in your seat, do you have a new local member?

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: JennyO
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:46 AM

I lived in little johnnie's electorate - Bennelong - for 25 years, and couldn't get rid of the bugger. I even campaigned for the Greens in Bennelong at the last election, and still he lingered on.

I had a sticker on a car I got rid of 3 years ago, that said "Tell John Howard it's over". By the time I sold that car, the sticker was faded and barely recognisable, it had been on there so long already.

But now ............

*sings* (to the tune of Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah)

Lost in Bennelong, lost in Bennelong
Howard lost in Bennelo-o-o-ong,
Howard lost his seat in Bennelong!

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Azizi
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 12:00 PM

Congratulations on your Great News!

From an American to her Ozzie friends

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 12:29 PM

Bravo! About bloody time, as Sandra said. We have jobs at Tim Hortons (donut shops) in Blind River, Ontario, if Mr Howard is in need of one.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Clownfish
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 02:52 PM

About bloody time says it all

Ding dong the witch is dead
Which old witch? The wicked witch
Ding dong the wicked witch is dead
Wake up sleepy head rub your eyes get out of bed
Wake up the wicked witch is dead
She's gone where the goblins go
Below below below
Yo ho Let's open up and sing and ring the bells out
Ding dong the merry oh sing it high sing it low
Let them know the wicked witch is dead

Here in London we have been walking around with a smile on our faces all day. That's when we weren't singing and dancing in the streets.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Helen
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 03:23 PM

Most of the Liberal party people who were interviewed last night said that until the postal votes are counted we won't know the final result on John Howard's seat of Bennelong, but the votes right from the start of counting have stayed consistent with Maxine McKew in advance by about 1.5% after preferences. It's possible she will lose, but given the swing towards Labor across the country, I'm betting on her to win. Little Johnny seemed to think he had lost his spot in parliament, in his speech.

I have to say that listening to that speech of his last night is the first time I have ever seen a good side of him, i.e. conceding gracefully, but he couldn't resist having another dig, another go at shoring up the propaganda. This country is better off than it was 11 years ago. In your dreams, mate!

There was no surprise in "Our Town" Newcastle. Labor romps in as usual. They don't have to do anything except send us all a calendar every year. One state Labor minister kept sending one of those cheap little black on white business card sized calendars and he just kept getting elected until the Labor party shafted him and put a high profile candidate against him. He went Independent, but it was a shambles, very bitter on all sides, and the brainless bimbo Labor candidate romped in because she was the Labor candidate, and she had been a local news reader on tv for many years.

But ex-tv person Maxine McKew is a different kettle of fish entirely. Clever, knowledgeable, sharp, insightful, tenacious. Go Maxine! Go for PM next time!! With Julia Gillard as Deputy.

Happy, happy, happy,
Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: JennieG
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:00 PM

No surprises in our electorate - Blaxland - safe Labour seat, which means Labour takes it for granted and the Libs don't put up a candidate they wish to foster for the future because they know they won't get in. Our new bloke who replaced the sitting member is called Jason. Jason!!! for heaven's sake!!!!

I never thought I would see the day when my Parliamentary representative was called Jason!!!!!

By the time the next federal election rolls around we will have gone from here, we're moving out hopefully in less than 2 years.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 04:32 PM

Ol' Howard's lost in Bennelong,
Left us here to sing this song;
Ol' Howard's lost in Bennelong,
Left us here to sing this song.

Ol' Howard's lost in Bennelong -
Ol' Howard's lost in Bennelong -
Ol' Howard's lost in Bennelong,
Left us here to sing this song!

Nice to hear that Oz is moving on. Maybe those of us enduring hard times in the States can do the same in a year or two. Hope the world can survive the wait.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Helen
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:14 PM

HARD TIMES COME AGAIN NO MORE
(Stephen Foster)


1. Let us pause in life's pleasures and count its many tears,
While we all sup sorrow with the poor;
There's a song that will linger forever in our ears;
Oh Hard times come again no more.

Chorus:
Tis the song, the sigh of the weary,
Hard Times, hard times, come again no more
Many days you have lingered around my cabin door;
Oh hard times come again no more.

2. While we seek mirth and beauty and music light and gay,
There are frail forms fainting at the door;
Though their voices are silent, their pleading looks will say
Oh hard times come again no more.

3. There's a pale drooping maiden who toils her life away,
With a worn heart whose better days are o'er:
Though her voice would be merry, 'tis sighing all the day,
Oh hard times come again no more.

4. Tis a sigh that is wafted across the troubled wave,
Tis a wail that is heard upon the shore
Tis a dirge that is murmured around the lowly grave
Oh hard times come again no more.

@harmony
filename[ HRDTIMES
TUNE FILE: HRDTIMES

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 05:58 PM

Well it felt like that in England back in 1997...

Congratulations - but keep your powder dry.

This must all get confusing for American conservatives who go on about how liberals are the spawn of Satan...

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:15 PM

G'day McGrath of Harlow,

... American conservatives who go on about how liberals are the spawn of Satan...

Yeah ... aren't they? (I mean little Johnnie's variety!)

Regard(les)s,

Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Helen
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 07:29 PM

In Oz the Liberals = the Liberal Party, as opposed to the Labor Party. The Libs are not what we refer to as "small-L liberals". They are the conservative party who pander to the wants and needs of the business owners and rich people. Confusing, I know.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 08:37 PM

Actually Helen, I heard it explained better than that.

The Australian Liberal Party WAS genuinely 'Liberal' - ie, what the Yanks would call 'commo' - not communist, but genuinely believed in helping their fellow man for the common good - things like abolishing slavery and supporting the old, sick and unemployed on pensions and free medical care and all that...

Well, the Aussie 'liberals' about the time of Howard and a few others, one day said, "well, we're going over to this corner on the Right side of the room, and since there are more of us than you, we're taking the name and the Party Funds with us!" What was left became "the Democrats" - nothing whatsoever to be mistaken for "US Democrats!" - this party died with the death of Don, it's founder, but had committed hari kari with stupidities like Cheryl Kernow changing parties, and the brilliant idea of their leader ganging up with Little Fascist Johnny to bring in the GST (which Little Fascist Johnny had sworn 'never ever a GST!') Johnny also brought in the stupidity of 'core and non-core promises' - ie. ones you keep and just other lies!

When Pauline Hanson came on the scene, Little Fascist Johnny veered hard to the Right - pretty much the US Right! - and this is where he gets his nickname from!

The Liberal Party was reputed to embrace second rate failed US political advisors. Explains a lot, you see.

Johnny's arrogance culminated in the 'Australians have never had it so good' statement - which was on a par with another pollies' "the recession we had to have" statement! Then the Liberals stated the US wanker mantra 'destroy the Unions' game - since Aussie Political life is strongly bound up with the Unions fight against selfish rich greedy arseholes for the last 100 years - this policy was bound to eventually end in tears. In 1907, there was the famous law case which decided that the working man was entitled to a wage that allowed him a reasonable standard of living, and not to be forced to live like an animal (the Yanks still haven't got there yet!)

The National party (the other party in the coalition) has become increasingly irrelevant, and in Queensland has lost large chunks to Labour.

The Greens gained quite an increase in voting this election, most especially at the expense of the Liberals, but in a few critical seats they lost support, as it turned into a 'to the death' between Liberal and Labour. In Howard's seat, the Greens vote declined, and in Turnbull's seat, he actually got a high sswing towards him, one of the very few Liberals to do that - even Costello had a swing against him. The Greens have now replaced the Democrats as 'the third voice'.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rowan
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 09:34 PM

And now Costello has announced he won't be standing for the leadership. It gets better and better, although the icing on the cake (Maxine getting rid of Howard without having to do it via a by-election) is not yet confirmed until the postal votes come in on 7th December.

My location, covered by New England (Commonwealth) and Northern Tablelands (State) electorates, is still the only part of the country with Independents at both levels above the municipal; Tony Windsor was returned but everyone was rather smiling on my "Your Rights at Work" T shirt.

We now have to see what happens to the Senate.
And remember the old saw

"It doesn't matter who you vote for, it's always a politician that gets in."

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:20 PM

It appears that the Liberals have now lost control of the Senate.

Costello has now announced that he will not stand for leader. That leaves a strong guess that Turnbull will be the new leader.

Labour needed 16 seats to win, they gained about another 16 as well.

The Democrats now cease to exist as a political party (you must have elected member to be a 'real party' - pending a new party before its first election, of course) - the last 2 who were up for re-election did not regain their seats, and will now finish at the end of June. The Senate has fixed terms - 4 years with half up for election every alternate 2 years.

The democrats got less than 2% - you need a 'quota' - 100% divided by the total number of seats. Once a party has a quota, they can 'carry' the excess from the first elected candidate onto the second candidate, etc. From memoery it's about 12% for a quota.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:47 PM

Let's see if this Yank can get it straight:

John Howard is OUT in Oz;
Tony "Landslide" Blair is OUT in Britain;
The Poles are pulling their troops OUT of Iraq;
The Brits are pulling some of their troops OUT of Iraq....

Doesn't poor Georgie Porgie have ANY friends anymore?

(Apart from what's-his-name in France, I mean.)

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Helen
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 11:23 PM

Well, funnily enough, Our new PM-elect, Kevin Rudd, didn't even mention the Iraq war last night in his victory speech, except to say that he supports all Australians, and he included members of the defence force in that. I'm sure he specifically mentioned those defence force people who are "overseas". I'll have to listen to the speech again. If anyone wants to see the video

there are videos here of Little Johnny's & Kevin Rudd's speeches

They won't be there for long I think, a couple of weeks maybe, so get in early.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 01:44 AM

A commentator a while ago said that all of George's 'supporters' had been voted out of office, and he expected Johnny soon would be too.

He was right.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 09:54 AM

"When Pauline Hanson came on the scene, Little Fascist Johnny veered hard to the Right - pretty much the US Right! - and this is where he gets his nickname from!"


             So what's going on with Pauline Hanson? I'm finding Australian politics kind of confusing.
             But I saw where she lost in her bid for the Senate, but does she still retain a seat in Parliment? And she ran on her own ticket, but it seems like there was a One-Nation candidate in the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rowan
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 05:21 PM

Riginslinger, it's not surprising you're confused about One Notion and Pauline Hanson. Foolestroupe (being a Queenslander) might be able to give this better but I'll try.

Pauline Hanson started her political career as a Liberal Party (read "Conservative") candidate for a seat (seats in lower house legislatures , at both state and commonwealth levels are given names and I think hers was "Blair", confusingly for you nonOz people) in Qld but became a liability during that 1996 election campaign when she proposed some rather racist views. She was disenfranchised by the Libs but was elected. At the following election she was voted out but had read the entrails and had gathered a lot of people to her ideas and formed One Notion as a party to campaign for election to the Senate. Her ideas are appealing to many with a simple view of how things ought to be done and who hanker for the days when Aborigines ("blacks" and "coons" were terms widely used in times past) knew their place (subservient and submissive) and whites were the only acceptable immigrants.

It helps to know that, for most Oz legislatures and certainly for the Commonwealth, Preferential voting is used for lower house seats and Proportional representation with a Preferential distribution of votes is used for the Senate. For the current election (where half the Senate is up for election; 6 seats for each State) a quota (required for a candidate's success) is 1/6th of the vote for that State. If it had been a Double Dissolution, the whole Senate (12 seats for each State) is up for election and a quota is 1/12th of the vote for that State.

It is rare for candidates from minor parties to get up for a seat in the lower house (even with distribution of preferences) so Pauline knew she couldn't win her seat back, but minor parties have more success in the Senate, especially if it's a Double DIssolution. The two major parties would normally get enough votes to claim the first four quotas for a State (two each) and the preferences get distributed, meaning the minor parties are in with a chance for at least one Senate seat in each State.

There was some scandal about whether One Notion was properly registered and another when electoral funds were not properly accounted for so, while One Notion might be a registered party in Queensland and score close to a quota we live in hope it doesn't. Although I'm south of the Qld border I noticed the Senate ballot paper for NSW had a couple of candidates registered as "Pauline", so I suspect this is a method her sympathisers are using to gain votes; they scored no guernsey from me.

I hope this helps.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: s&r
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 05:50 PM

The Spooky Men's Chorale had their own way of protesting as you can see here


Stu

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: GUEST,LB
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 07:40 PM

I am eager to see this weeks issue of the Alice Springs Newspaper. Wonder what they'll have to say. Think this new government will be more sympathetic to that area and its economic development than the Howard group?

While I live in the US, I follow that area quite closely.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rowan
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 08:02 PM

Can't help with the Alice paper, but, for the first time since the CLP took over the NT News, the Darwin paper, that paper recommended voting against the Coalition. At least, that was the way it was presented before the polls opened.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 08:38 PM

Well Rowan, A Queenslander I be, but why would you think that would mean that I would be any less confused, especially about 'Pauline'.

The basic story you have give is correct.

For Non-Aussies, her party was called "One Nation", but the typical Aussie sense of humour renamed it (perhaps more accurately) "One Notion"!!! :-)

I haven't checked Wiki - oh dammit - why not....

http://en.Wikipedia.org/Wiki/Pauline_Hanson
is really well worth reading - a whole soap opera in one personality... BTW, if you like 'George Bushims' - that Wiki page (http://en.wikiquote.org/Wiki/Pauline_Hanson) has a link to a whole lot of 'paulineisms'!!! :-) her most famous of which was "Please Explain!" - delivered in the typical 'lower class' Aussie Strine nasal whine...

QUOTE
In 2006, she was named by The Bulletin as one of the 100 most influential Australians of all time..
UNQUOTE

That's definitely true...

The really dangerous thing about her, was that like Hitler (and she WAS compared to him! but for totally different reasons than you might expect!) was her naive unsophisticated uneducated 'redneck' approach

eg
"If this government wants to be fair dinkum, then it must stop kowtowing to financial markets, international organisations, world bankers, investment companies and big business people. The Howard government must become visionary and be prepared to act, even at the risk of making mistakes."

IS very good (and very populist - even with me!), but the nature of her followers, many insular (like many Yanks!), not very well or most importantly not widely educated (again like Yanks!) meant that the real fear among the educated was that her followers WOULD turn Australia into a facsimile of 30s Germany, (even thought they themselves would be horrified by the comparison!),. that idea really does need to be dealt with - and it now seems that Howard with his anti global warming and other ideas has now bee woken up to and purged.

In some ways she WAS screwed over by those with their own agendas -

for example
QUOTE
Let's define the word, what racist is - "A person who believes that their race to be superior to another's." I've never advocated that. And I challenge anyone to tell me one thing that I've said that is racist. Criticism is not racism. Accountability is not racism. And that's what I've tried to say over the years.
UNQUOTE

"Criticism is not racism. Accountability is not racism." - so true, but it was her followers that scared the shit out of people...

Wiki - "In 1997, Professor David Flint observed: "It was media indulging in its own fantasies, believing its own stories, which turned Ms Hanson into a spectre stalking the land... Her message was presented in some quarters as if it were the voice of Satan. In fact, her views are more moderate than many right-wing parties in Western Europe.""

You have to remember that Queenslanders previously had "Uncle Joh" - http://en.Wikipedia.org/Wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen (you should read this!)

A man who actually revered Hitler and certain African Dictators for their simple minded approach - and allegedly had to be dissuaded from dressing the 'Queensland Police Special Branch' officers in Brown Shirts (think SA thugs!)... we actually had a law that 'three people was a demonstration', and you could actually be arrested JUST FOR WALKING DOWN THE STREET IN A GROUP OF THREE! I'm NOT making this up you know! The Qld Police Force was eventually publicly exposed as highly corrupt - Fitzgerald Enquiry.

So there was some genuine fear that Pauline would grab support based on 'Old Joh Supporters'...

Another quote
"What I can't understand is why come here and try and change our country into the place that you've come from? And all I ask of people is come here, respect our country, respect our laws, our culture, our way of life. Be Australian, join us, enjoy this beautiful country and everything that it has to offer."

seems on the surface to not be too problematical... :-) Even I have to agree with the basic surface expression of that...

And another
"If politicians continue to promote separatism in Australia, they should not continue to hold their seats in this parliament. They are not truly representing all Australians, and I call on the people to throw them out."

She also made statements - claimed as racist - objecting to the Govt throwing huge sums of money at 'Aboriginals' - "giving them special treatment" - which was undeniably true - and the problem was that the huge amounts of money was NOT helping them by changing their circumstances - indeed Little Fascist Johnny's recent desperate effort of sending in the military to 'help them' acknowledged that SOMETHING DIFFERENT (apart from just throwing money!) HAD TO BE DONE...


*** Yanks (actually 'Bloody Yanks') is an Aussie expression, apparently not capable of being translated in any way that most Americans cannot find offensive, although that is NOT the intent of the expression.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 08:48 PM

Poor George.

All alone, without a friend* anywhere. Ragged and freezing in the cold, cruel world, hardly a billion dollars to his name, incapable of supporting another war, criticized by his own Party, a veto overturned, and now without even the advice of an Australian....




















*Except for that guy in France.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 08:54 PM

BTW, while chatting with a guy handing out Democrat party how to vote info on Sat - we both suddenly realised the true position on voting.

He mentioned that while scrutineering last election, he noticed a large number of ballot papers (all individually accounted for - no real 'stuffing' is possible undetected - all papers are hand signed by an official on being handed to the voter) were totally blank - in other words a legal 'null vote' - we talked about 'informal votes' and whether they are deemed 'informal'. Then it hit me!

In Australia - apparently one of the few in the world - we have allegedly 'compulsory voting'.

That's not true - we have 'compulsory attendance at a polling booth' (or substitution, such as postal voting, absent voting, etc), but NOT COMPULSORY VOTING!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rowan
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 10:14 PM

Foolestroupe, that's one of the reasons each polling booth has scrutineers during the counting; you wouldn't want anyone filling in the blank ones during a close contest, would you!?

Re: >i>we have 'compulsory attendance at a polling booth' (or substitution, such as postal voting, absent voting, etc), perhaps a couple of terms could be defined to help the nonOz readers.

Postal votes are generally available for those who know, ahead of polling day (always a Saturday in Oz, so all workers can attend) that they will be away from a polling booth on polling day.

Absentee votes are cast on polling day when you attend a polling booth outside the area of the seat in which you are enrolled. Most electorates also have a booth, open for a week ahead of polling day, at which you can cast your vote ahead of polling day.

Donkey votes are those ballot papers where the numbering of preferences down the list of the candidates' on the ballot paper is simply "1", "2", etc down the list. Because the order of listing for each candidate is itself chosen by ballot after the deadline (usually a couple of weeks prior to polling day, most candidates want to be at the physical top of the ballot paper to acquire the donkey vote.

Informal votes are those votes determined to be so (ie invalid) by the Electoral Officer. To bhe formal and thus counted, there should be a number in each candidate's box on the ballot paper, there should be no repetition of any number (ie, where there are three candidates the numbers should read "1", "2" and "3"; "1", "2" and "2" would be informal and discarded from the poll) and there should be no writing outside the boxes. Anything written outside the boxes renders that ballot paper invalid and its vote informal. The blank ones mentioned by Foolestroupe don't fir the first requirement and are thus informal.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 10:23 PM

Rowan and Foolestroupe: Thank you so very much for the information. I think I've got part of it. I can see I need to do a little more research. It seems to me that the form of government in Australia is somewhat more complicated that in the US. The one thing I envy above all other things is the fact that you have multiple parties. Here we basically have two parties, if one party takes a postition on an issue, the other party takes the opposite position--all other points of view are ignored.
                            It's maddening.
          I heard on an NPR broadcast that the Greens were positioned to do well in the recent election, and I was encouraged by that. It doesn't seem to have happened, however, so I think I'll need to do a little more research.
          Regarding Pauline Hanson, she has become somewhat of an icon in the US for people who are concerned about runaway immigration. There are two camps, however, for whom this issue is most important. There seems to be a consevative group whose rants on the issue really do border on racism, and there is another group who worry about the overwhelming numbers of people. There are a number of Greens and environmentalists in the latter group.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rowan
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 11:20 PM

Riginslinger, you've got the gist of it as far as Pauline Hanson's legacy is concerned.

Regarding the Greens in our election, the main results I know at the moment are;
1 The Greens candidate for the Senate seat in the ACT didn't get up; Senate seats (two each in the ACT and the Northern Territory but only one each in a half senate election like the one just counting) from the Territories have slightly different rules to Senate seats from the States (6 elected from each State in a half Senate election and 12 from each State after a Double Dissolution. Territory Senators take their seats as soon as the polls are declared but State Senator, having a fixed term, must wait until next July. This would have changed the balance of power in the Senate immediately.

2   The Greens Senator from NSW may have lost her seat. Even if this is ultimately correct she will be there until July.

Your comment about the effects of having only two major parties is much the same for Oz, USA, UK and France except for the effects of counting and distributing preferences. We had "first past the post" counting in Oz until the late 50s or early 60s, with the same effects as currently in the US.

The effect of Perot and possibly Ralph Nader, as third candidates in the recent US Presidential elections is usually regarded as "detrimentally" diverting votes from the only candidate (of your choice) worth electing. The French and most Europeans get around this in their Presidential elections by having two polling days; the first weeds out all except the two highest-polling candidates and the second presents a choice between only those two candidates. Theoretically, minor parties can get a candidate up into the runoff with such a system but the two polling days are a fortnight apart.

The Oz politicians of the late 50s and early 60s were responding to a claim that some electorates had three (usually; more than two, in any case) candidates that were equally desirable/undesirable in the eyes of voters and the voters wanted a way of making sure their choices "counted" beyond a situation where one got 34% of the votes and the other two each got 33%. Hence the preferential system was introduced. In a three-way race, if a candidate gets "1" from more than 50% of the votes cast in their electorate they are declared elected but, if each candidate gets fewer than 50%, the one with the fewest "1" ("primary votes" in Oz terminology) has their papers distributed to the other candidates according to which candidate had their name ranked "2". If a candidate now has more than 50% of the total votes cast they are declared elected but, if not, once again the candidate with the fewest papers in their pile has their papers distributed among the others according to the "3" rankings. And so on until one candidates scores more than 50% of the votes cast.

Hence the use of the term "Two party preferred" when commentators describe predictions and/or results. And the argybargy about which party id directing their preferences to which other party. Serious bunfights but all the counting is rather quick these days.

I was able to describe all this to my offspring as we watched (the above is more or less the same as I told them on Saturday night) but the explanation of how the Senate seats are counted takes a bit longer.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Neil D
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 11:23 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Sandra in Sydney - PM
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 10:34 AM

how's thing in your seat, do you have a new local member?
   

      That's kind of a personal question there Sandra. But seriously, I'm glad you got rid of your little fascist and I can't wait till we get rid of ours. Now, if only theres was something you all could do about this Rupert Murdoch guy we'd really appreciate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Nov 07 - 11:46 PM

"something you all could do about this Rupert Murdoch guy"

Well you silly Yanks made him revoke his Aussie citizenship and take out yours, so now you can't even deport him! :-) :-P

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:10 AM

Rowan,

"responding to a claim that some electorates had three (usually; more than two, in any case) candidates that were equally desirable/undesirable in the eyes of voters and the voters wanted a way of making sure their choices "counted" beyond a situation"

There was also the fact that the splits in both 'left' & 'right' sides meant that each side could have two (or more!) candidates. Both sides would REALLY prefer that THEIR side, even if they didn't like the actual party, got in - thus the 'preferential' bit helps there.... :-)

Actually, it DOES make things 'more accountable', because it's harder to get away with lies forever...


"Regarding Pauline Hanson, she has become somewhat of an icon in the US"

This is exactly what was the real fear about her and the 'hitler' garbage...

As I said 'a whole soap opera in a single personality'...


It's been 'confirmed' - if you believe the news! - that Little Fascist Johnny IS looking for a new job... But Maxine is refusing to claim victory as she says that it is too close to call - there are a lot of 'postal & absent' votes - they can take days to 'come in' - and if it VERY close - there can also be several recounts of the whole votes - all ONLY EVER done by hand.


The Greens did rather well on a total percentage vote basis across the board. Non-Aussies may not understand though, how a party that gets no, or even just a very few people elected can wield a lot of power. Well, you see, many of the seats Labour won, got over the line due to distributed Green 2nd preferences. The 'Democrats' (NOTHING like US 'Democrats'!) used to do that, but their voted almost totally evaporated. They were seen as 'too close to the Liberals' - while the Greens were seen as 'somewhat close to Labour' - they made a strong running about many things that Labour did not want to go as far with - eg, that 'private schools' should get no more funding than 'public schools' - Under Little Fascist Johnny, the per student funding for private schools is now several times greater than public schools - and that does not take into account the 'fees' paid by parents!. This is the 'benefit' of our system - Johnny tried to tamper with that, but fortunately wiser heads on even his own side saw the 'long term benefits' of such a system, compared with any short term possible gains.

Well the Nationals Leader has now also refused to lead the party - as did Costello (Johnny's publicly anointed!) for the Liberals on election night. If they hung around, then the voters, as has happened in the past - will continue to 'reject their failed policies' (vote the party out!) - since they don't appear to admit that they 'stuffed it'! :-)

The Nationals got hurt - percentage vote wise - perhaps even harder than the Libs, especially in Queensland - traditionaly a fairly anti-labour area!

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:12 AM

BTW, I once accidentally met Pauline - she WAS and IS - DUMB!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: JennieG
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:13 AM

I'm in two minds about compulsory voting as mentioned by Robin and Rowan above. In years gone by I have worked at polling boths, and that includes counting the votes at the end of the day. While the majority are fair dinkum votes there is a small ratbag element who writes obscene comments on their voting papers....who the bloody hell do they think reads them???? There are obviously well-meaning but incorrectly filled out papers too, and then there's the donkey vote, plus the totally blank papers.

Because voting is compulsory and these folk are on the electoral roll they turn up to the polling booth and have their name ticked off, what they do with their vote after that is entirely up to them.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:28 AM

JennieG -

I used to think when younger that we should only have 'optional voting' but as I have lived longer, I am now utterly convinced, that in spite of what you say (and I confess to once having written on the paper "I want none of these idiots!") the benefits of our system far outweigh any minor negatives.

The extra lobbying power that the electorate as a whole, rather than just those few who can afford to bribe, gets by having effective minor parties is just impossible in the USA - where an honest politician is just 'one who STAYS bought'!!! :-) There, you only have to bribe TWO organisations, here no-one can afford to bribe them all - and only bribing the big boys is, because of the system, largely a waste of money! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Rowan
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 12:39 AM

You're right, Robin, with your comments on the origins of the preferential system; I was trying to be succinct but descriptive enough for nonaussies to cope with it and the basis for "why go to the trouble'. Except for the fact that there's a swag too many methods of casting votes ("correctly", even) in the US already, as well as the fact that the plethora of positions voted on at any election there, I'd almost be brave enough to recommend, politely, they took a good look at it as a way of dealing with the stranglehold the two (funded) parties exercise.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Wainwright99
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 02:01 AM

In all truth I am sad to see Peter Costello quitting.
Tony Abbott could have been his deputy.
Yes, Abbott and Costello running the country.
Can't think of a more appropriate team to lead the Liberals...

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 05:39 AM

"Abbott and Costello running the country."

Ah - you didn't hear of the law suit they brought?

Abbot & Costello Vs... ah - can't remember... any other aussies remember the case? - was mentioned here a while ago, I'm sure... Defamation, I think it was...



Look! I'm not making this up you know!

:-)

Seriously!...


And you wonder why I carry on the way I do... I'm the only sane one here...

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 05:48 AM

Rudd is a Queensland boy.

The National Party (previously called The Country Party) lost quite a few seats in Qld...

On Election night, Kevin said he wished his father was still alive to see his son, especially since his dad was such a staunch member of The Country Party...

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: hilda fish
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 05:49 AM

I remember years ago seeing some very ragged writing on a wall in Carlton Melbourne: "do you think they would let us vote if it really made any difference?" Oh dear. I almost danced in the pub when I heard that John Howard was FLATTENED. I don't care what happens to him - he's got lots of money and is gonna be okay. Not many working people, asylum seekers, Indigenous people, etc. can say that. Just hope Rudd doesn't betray our trust. He is a bloody politician after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: JennyO
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 08:56 AM

And now we already have a song written for the occasion by John Dengate - our most brilliant writer of political parodies, who has never been slow in seizing any opportunity that presents itself. Here it is - hot off the press!


ADIEU JOHN - (TUNE: Cockles and Mussels) - John Dengate

He lost the election, he suffered rejection
The polling booths ran with the Liberals' blood
His grip has been broken, the people have spoken
So cry, John, good bye, John…
We'll try Kevin Rudd.

As fast as you please, John, hand over the keys, John,
Be on your way and don't loiter my son.
Off through the back gate, for you've got the sack, mate…
Adieu, John, shoot through, John,
Your day it is done.

Your ego's diminished, your tenure is finished
So best find a pub and sneak in and get pissed.
Drink yourself silly far from Kirribilli ­
Yes sob, John, your job's gone
And you won't be missed.

You cheated and blustered, you could not be trusted
You pushed us too far with your devious lies,
You're finished, you're dead, mate, so cover your head, mate
Go, John, lie low, John
Assume a disguise.

He lost the election, he suffered rejection
The polling booths ran with the Liberals' blood
His grip has been broken, the people have spoken
So cry, John, good bye, John…
We'll try Kevin Rudd.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 09:04 AM

"BTW, I once accidentally met Pauline - she WAS and IS - DUMB!!!!"

             It's funny how people like that come to power. I guess it's because they just don't realize how stupid they are. We had Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush--no candidates for Mensa those two--and they did a lot of damage.

             Has Rudd given any indication where he might be on immigration? I've read that he has a strong environmental background.

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: GUEST,John Gray in Oz
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 10:42 AM

Foolestroupe - yes, your memory is in reasonable shape.
About 7 years A political writer here called Bob Ellis wrote a book called Goodbye Jerusalem. A Faction - combination of fact & fiction. In it he wrote about about sexual peccadilloes of Tanya & Margaret during their university days. Something to do with sexual rewards for young men to join the Young Liberal Party. These girls went on to become Tanya Costello & Margaret Abbott. It was they who sued Bob Ellis, and his publisher, and received a substantial payout.
Poor old Bob. In the US & UK it would have been thrown out of court but in Oz we have really draconian slander laws.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 10:50 AM

So did Abbott and Costello ever figure out "Who's on First?"

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 03:53 PM

JennyO-

"Adieu John" is a lovely piece of work by our esteemed friend John Dengate. Thanks for posting it.

Hopefully, we here in the States will be able to compose something in a year or two with equal spirit. Of course we don't even know what candidate the Republicans will come up with yet. Makes composing a song in advance a little difficult.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 05:48 PM

But you'll never have the pleasur of voting Dubya out, any more than we did with Maggie. Or for that matter Tony. That's what must make this Ozzie triumph particularly satisfying. As the Spooky Men's Chorale advised, they voted the bastard out

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 06:02 PM

please let John know that his delightful song - copyright acknowledged - will be put on The Fooles Troupe list.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Oz Prime Minister loses seat in election
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 07 - 06:21 PM

The Dominos keep falling.

The Northern Territory, where Little Fascist Johnny (BTW Yahoo Answers deleted my answers that quoted that name - I gave them both barrels about Bloody Yanks censoring Aussie Political Comment - a web search revealed that I did not invent that term first! but of course the robots just ignored me!) did his 'Military Intervention' was a Labour Government, but the Chief Minister resigned, quoting the last 6 months since the intervention as being 'very stressful' - although she sorta supported it - the 2 territory Govts - NT & Canberra have no autonomy, but are overruled by Canberra, as evidenced by Little Fascist Johnny overruling the 'euthanasia' legislation...