Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 20 - 12:57 PM Dottie. My father sang the song this way back in the early '40's. There lived in China a very small man, whose name was chigery chi go ran. His legs were short and his feet were small. He could not walk at all. O chigery chi go ray, Diddly de come happy may Soloman twist the candy oh Gallopin wallapin Chinee oh., |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST,Shornyb2019 Date: 03 Nov 20 - 10:51 AM There was a man from China land His name was Icka Picka Oopin kan His leg were tall his feet were small The chinese man couldn't walk at all He had two servants to carry him about, one to sing and the other to shout Here he comes and there he goes The chinese man with the knockaknee nose Enoch Chenock chuck chuckalar Chickalar lairy icka picka dar Alla balla busha kandy kish Illago allago China |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST,B Date: 07 Dec 20 - 03:21 PM I have seen many people saying that this song is racist. I think I agree, but I don't think I know exactly why. What specifically is the song making fun of? As I understand it it is a song about a specific Chinese man who due to an unfortunate luck of the draw was unable to walk. Then there is a bunch of nonsense rhyming words. Then another verse, often where the man dies. And then more nonsense. It seems to me like the song is a story of a specific Chinese man who experienced a series of unfortunate events. Once again my gut tells me the song is racist, and I am uncomfortable singing it. I just don't know what specifically makes it racist. I think I don't understand racism. |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST,B Date: 07 Dec 20 - 03:23 PM Also, here is the version I grew up hearing: The Chinaman Song There was a Chinaman a very rich man his name was Chicory Chi Chi-An His legs were short and his feet were small........ This Chinaman could not walk at all Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Chicory Chi Good Try Good Day - Diddle Dee Come Happy May Curie-me kissed & dandy oh, Galloping Walloping Chi-nee-o The lady from the very next house came up the hill to help him about From top to bottom they stumble and fall This Chinaman could not walk at all Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Chicory Chi Good Try Good Day - Diddle Dee Come Happy May Curie-me kissed & dandy oh, Galloping Walloping Chi-nee-o |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Dec 20 - 02:48 AM There's a classic book titled Songs of the American West, by Richard E. Lingenfelter and Richard A. Dwyer (University of California Press, 1968). It has a chapter titled "John Chinaman" songs that has these songs about Chinese immigrants: John Chinaman Josh, John John Chinaman, My Jo John Chinaman's Appeal Hay Sing, Come from China Twelve Hundred More Long John, Chineeman Since the Chinese Ruint the Thrade Get Out, Yellow-Skins, Get Out! Most of these songs seem quite benign, and we get a steady stream of posts from visitors who come in and say how cute these songs are. And they ARE cute, just like Stephen Foster songs with "negro dialect" about pickaninnies and such, and the depictions of Native Americans on the logos of sports teams like the Washington Redskins. But real people don't want to be regarded as "cute," because it's demeaning. And when you demean other people, even if you are well-intentioned, you're racist. I belong to a book club that discusses books that are mostly about social justice or religious issues. One book we read recently was Ghosts of Gold Mountain, about the Chinese workers who built the California part of the Transcontinental Railroad. I took out my Lingenfelter-Dwyer book and read a couple verses of some "John Chinaman" songs to illustrate the demeaning attitudes that people in this area had about Chinese workers. One member of the club called me the next day to complain that he was offended by my even reading those lyrics. I disagreed, and I hope that by this time he has forgotten the bitterness of our disagreement. I think we need to know about these songs so that we can understand the culture and racism of our ancestors in the "good old days," but I think it's important that we don't regard these songs as "cute" or in any way benign. They're racist, plain and simple. |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: Steve Gardham Date: 08 Dec 20 - 08:44 AM Agreed, Joe. |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST Date: 10 Mar 21 - 06:03 PM My father (born 1918) would sing: "Once there was a Chinaman His name was Alygaloot Chapan. His hair was long his feet were short, and this is the way he used to talk: 'Loocha loocha loocha chapan Ali gawally ga chicka dee ali Galoocha loocha looch chapan,' and that was the end of the chinaman. When the chinaman shall die In his coffin he will lie. If his coffin is too small, He will go to China Hall. 'Loocha loocha loocha chapan Ali gawally go chicka dee ali Galoocha loocha looch chapan,' and that was the end of the chinaman. |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST,Kay Date: 24 Mar 21 - 09:58 PM This is the version my Grandfather told us: Hiker Chiker Chiggery Chan Hiker Chiker Chinaman Lorda be Gotta be Dusky Oh Willapy Wallopy Chiny Oh One day the people of the town Went up the hill to roll him down From top to bottom they began to tickle and play with the Chinaman (Chorus) The Chinaman he did die In his coffin he did lie They carried him off to Japan and that was the end of the Chinaman (Chorus) |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST,John Archer Date: 26 Mar 21 - 07:33 PM I'm researching "Jingo!" an Indian British Raj skipping song, lernt in Dunedin New Zealand in about 1905, and I am told it has a similar tune to The Chinaman one. Could someone point me to a recording of the Chinaman song being sung please? The is Jingo! song Hairo chairo, chukka pukka pan Ocki ocki pino, chika chika man Holaby impy, impy chi Tara warka chara baka, jingo! https://www.folksong.org.nz/dunedin_kids_chant.mp3 |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: Steve Gardham Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:39 AM Hi John, The tune my mother used was similar to 'Jimmy Crack Corn and I don't care', just the first 2 lines repeated, with perhaps going up on 'chi' and just coming back down the scale on the 4th line of your rhyme. Just a thought, the 'J' on jingo is very close to the 'ch' sound so if that was a misheard 'chingo' it wouldn't be that far removed from many versions above. |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST Date: 27 Apr 21 - 05:17 AM My mother's version (she was born in 1914) went something like this: Pinganinganoonaa chinerackachee, Pinganinganoonaa inkaatee With an inkaatankaa (and here my memory fails me) The Chinaman with a monkey's nose. It took three robbers (or maybe robins) to carry him off Behind the backs the boys did shout Here he comes and there he goes, The Chinaman with a monkey's nose. |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: GUEST,Maureen Ashtonschwartz Date: 06 May 21 - 01:21 AM The version I was taught in 1960 went like this. Once there was a Chinaman His name was Chickie Chaloo Japan His teeth were short, his hair was long And this is the way he marched along. Chorus Chickie Chaloo Chaloo Japan Cholopy. Olopy, Chickie Chalopy Chickie Chaloo Chaloo Japan Cholopy Olopy Chinaman At last the poor old man did die And in his coffin he did lie. They took him back to old Japan And that was the end of the Chinaman. Chorus |
Subject: RE: Song Req: 'There was China Man...' From: John C. Bunnell Date: 06 May 21 - 03:57 AM Responding to Joe's post from last December: The great difficulty with teaching folks about this is that Joe is exactly right. > And when you demean other people, even if > you are well-intentioned, you're racist. The trouble is that "racism" and "racist" are trigger-words, because we associate them so closely with the conscious, malicious racism of white supremacy, the Ku Klux Klan, and other large-scale social injustices such as the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II. So when people hear those words used to describe their own actions, they feel as if they've been accused of being capital-E Evil themselves, even though that's most often not the case. The secondary problem is that for a sizeable chunk of the 20th century, comedy in America - for understandable reasons, mind you - was very strongly rooted in ethnic humor of various kinds. I'm not thinking only about Polish or Jewish jokes, where the central figure is the open target of ridicule, but of comedy based on pure misunderstanding, on the order of "a Swede, an Italian, and an Irishman walk into a bar". Ethnicity was the source of an immense amount of humor, and a lot of the jokes were funny enough, irrespective of the particular group being depicted, that their influence on today's comedy is still substantial. This was humor that was wholly socially acceptable to our parents and grandparents - and almost no one, not its writers nor performers nor listeners (even when their own ethnicity was in play), would have understood it to be racist at the time. Some of it might have been counted as offensive, but even that offensiveness wouldn't have been chalked up to racism. Rather, it would have been regarded as tasteless or demeaning on a general level - and most of the time, that judgment would have been correct. And that's the lesson that we're slowly beginning to learn in the 21st century: that the real, underlying cultural problem isn't racism as such - it's that there is a very long and very persistent strand of storytelling, in song and story and visual media, that seeks to demean its subjecst for being different. That's a lesson that transcends race and ethnicity to encompass gender identity, body shape, physical capability, and more. This is one reason I can't watch most TV situation comedies - I find too large a proportion of them rooted in humiliation/embarrassment humor at the expense of the "weird" character(s). So what does one do with the Chinaman songs? Just what Joe did, I think - but part of that process has to be the larger lesson, that there's nothing inherently wrong with the nonsense-verse as a musical form. It's simply that these particular verses ground their nonsense in words that inappropriately mock Chinese language. |
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