BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)

Subject: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:30 PM

This thread was getting pretty long...

Happy New Year! Maybe this year superstition will take its rightful place in the world...

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:32 PM

Well, there's me....

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: skipy
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:35 PM

Well, will the anti copycats go for you or not? after all this is a "religious" thread! Wait & watch this space!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Severn
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 02:45 PM

Maybe there are no Gods left because they've already been stilled.
Not even Sons O' Gods.

If not, are you saying no more should be stilled in 2008 (A.D., that is, measured from.....ahhhhhhhh nevermind!)

Can Bacchus still be distilled?

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:13 PM

Just because some don't believe in Him...doesn't mean he doesn't exist!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:18 PM

Define exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:28 PM

Just because a group of people agree about an entity does not mean It "exists" as an entity outside that agreement.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 03:32 PM

Flying Spaghetti Monsters! I'm hungry now.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 04:24 PM

There's Mike Huckabee!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 04:46 PM

Does he exist?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 05:39 PM

Probably not, but he's ahead in the polls in Iowa.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 05:44 PM

bobad....the Cambridge Dictionary online gives a definition for EXIST...it means 'BE REAL to be real or present'
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: bobad
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 05:55 PM

The first of ten definitions of "real" :
1a. Being or occurring in fact or actuality; having verifiable existence

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 07:31 PM

Verifiable? Hmmm....by whom?

Seems like the bottom line is if two viewpoints agree, you have a point of reality.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Nickhere
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 07:32 PM

I bought a book over Christmas, it's called "Caro Gesu, potresti cambiare il sapore agli asparagi?" (ISBN 978 88 454 1433 6). It's a collection of letters from Italian primary-school children to Jesus, asking Him this or that or telling Him their thoughts, and published just as they wrote them. The title means "Dear Jesus, can you change the flavour of asparagus?" (evidently not popular with that child!). It contains many other funny gems -

for example -

"Dear Jesus,
what expressions did people have on their faces when you did your miracles? Did they make you want to laugh? Carolina"

OR

"Dear Jesus,
do all the saints still exist, or are they like the dinosaurs? Marco"

There's a clever one from this girl:

"Dear Jesus,
mum and dad have grounded me and I can't go out on Saturday or Sunday. Can't you do something about it. If not, it will end up that I'll miss mass also.... Simona"

(Well, He'll HAVE to do something about that, I suppose!)

But you guys will probably like this one best:

"Dear Jesus,
what do you think of people who say you don't exist? Do you think of them as being like supporters of another (football) team, for example, like Inter fans? Paolo"

Happy New Year!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 07:55 PM

The question boils down to: "Does it matter to YOU?"

Like an afterlife, we'll know for sure soon enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 01 Jan 08 - 10:27 PM

As a Taoist, I believe there is a supreme force in the universe, that it flows through everything, and that it is undefinable. It has never made me want to fight a war on its behalf, convert anyone to my belief system, or stand on a street corner waving a copy of the Tao Te Ching and screaming "One way! The watercourse way!"

If I were given a choice between converting to a theistic religion and eating rat poison, I'd probably become a Rastafarian. If you're gonna believe a bunch of hooey, at least you should be able to get high as a kite and play guitar while you're at it.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: bobad
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:44 AM

Right on Bee Dub.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 08:48 AM

Like an afterlife, we'll know for sure soon enough.

If you believe in an afterlife and are right then you'll be able to say "I told you so". If you don't believe in an afterlife and you are right then you WON'T be able to say it!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:02 AM

In either case, why worry about it? If there IS a deity, what's s/he going to do you if you don't believe? For that matter, what difference would it make to an omnipotent, omniscient, omni-everything critter if you, a puny little piece of inconsequential cosmic puke, believes or not? And if there ISN'T one it doesn't make any difference at all.

If you want to believe, fine. If you don't, that's okay too. Just don't use your beliefs to bludgeon others.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:02 AM

What if you're reincarnated as a Republican and are therefore rendered incapable or rational thought?

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 09:36 AM

You could also be reincarnated as krill, eaten by a whale, and end up with a plop on the ocean floor.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Green Man
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 10:10 AM

Reality, The agreed upon 'is ness' of things.

Of course we exist. I think therefore I am. Hmmm..

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 10:57 AM

Just a tiny, itsy-witsy, teensy-weeny, miniscule bit of proof - that's all I ask ...

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 11:12 AM

I think I think, therefore I think I think I am......I think.

I read most of the serious 'thinking' about the issue in college, and the main thing I learned is that reason, logic and science cannot give us absolute, final and ultimate answers.....

however.....

....they CAN demonstrate the flaws and weaknesses in any attempt to claim absolute, final answers.

Therefore, anyone who chooses to follow any system which asserts a claim about 'ultimate reality' and origins is merely defining their own truths and reasoning in circles....that is, they must assume certain premises in order to follow logic based on those rules. No law against it, but it's a slippery-slope which usually results in assuming that everone ELSE ought to be following the same system. Sound familar?

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 11:17 AM

(and, eanjay, I have used that 'not being able to say "I told you so" 'line a number of times in discussions here...even in debates about para-normal experiences and Astrology. It doesn't faze 'em.)

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 11:25 AM

Sorry Bill D, I haven't read the other threads or I wouldn't have used it. I can imagine it doesn't faze anybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:15 PM

I'm puzzled. If "I think...therefore I am" is true....when I get yelled at, "Don't you ever think?" Does that mean I have ceased to exist? Or did I never exist in the first place? Puzzling.....

:0)

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:29 PM

Then there was the time Rene Descartes was gazing blankly out the window and disappeared.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:33 PM

Old philosophers' joke:

"So, Mr. Descartés, would you like another drink?"

"No, I think not." he replied...and disappeared.

(and eanjay...no need to be sorry *smile*...it's a good line and needs to be used often!)

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:34 PM

Pete:

The fact that your thinking may not seem manifest to others has no bearing on the fundamental issue. If you are aware of your own thought, you must Be, indeed. No other explanation for it! Others' expectation are too derivative to be metaphysically binding on the question, so to speak.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 12:48 PM

I drink, therefore I am!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:12 PM

I'll drink to that!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Wesley S
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:18 PM

I drunk, therefore I was?

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:26 PM

I AM drunk therefore I drink...or something....whatEVER....

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:47 PM

Thanks Amos,

"If you are aware of your own thought, you must Be"

...so if I do something without thinking......?!

Hmmmm...

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 01:53 PM

Don't confuse A==>B with ~B==>~A. They aren't identical. No-one says you exist if and only if you think.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 02:46 PM

The problem is, there seems to be a whole lot of folks who exist but never seem to think. And a lot of them vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 03:32 PM

Bumpersticker received by a friend as a Chritmas gift:

HONK IF YOU DON'T EXIST.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 02 Jan 08 - 06:58 PM

I gotta get one of those!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 04:48 AM

Me too!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM

"The most beautiful thing we experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all sciences. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

                                  Albert Einstein, Ph.D

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 09:40 AM

Mysterious, sure. Supernatural? Nope!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 10:47 AM

Wait a minute! I think I saw one crossing the street between 14th and Middletown Avenue.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Kim C
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 10:49 AM

I need a flow chart and an aspirin.

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: number 6
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 11:37 AM

another quote from Albert Einstein ...

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is somewhat a new kind of religion."

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 06:32 PM

I prefer to be un unreligious believer!

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 10:35 PM

Once again I invite all non-believers to say, in positive terms, what they do value and believe in.

I'll even start:

I believe in folk music. I believe in community. I believe in the power of goodness to be much, much stronger than the power of evil that masquerades as powerful. I believe in the creativity of the human mind. I believe in learning as much as I can, and in doing that when I am curious and open and exploratory. I believe in children. I believe in relationships.

And I really believe in dogs.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: Amos
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 10:46 PM

I believe in the power of imagination to color the world.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Still no gods 2008 (continued)
From: number 6
Date: 03 Jan 08 - 10:56 PM

I do believe this

biLL