Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)[Jan 2008]

Subject: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 08:50 AM

REYKJAVIK, Iceland (AP) - Bobby Fischer, the reclusive American chess master who became a Cold War icon when he dethroned the Soviet Union's Boris Spassky as world champion in 1972, has died. He was 64. Fischer died Thursday in a Reykjavik hospital, his spokesman, Gardar Sverrisson, said. There was no immediate word on the cause of death.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Brendy
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 08:59 AM

Just heard this.

He was the one who turned me on to Chess all those years ago.

I still have a copy of the game moves from that championship written down in an old notebook.

We're all mortal.....

B.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM

Yup. He made quite a splash in 72. RIP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:11 AM

There goes one of the few Chess Superstars... one who will be remembered as a great player, and one of the few whose name we could spell and pronounce.

LTS

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:45 AM

But what a sad, strange trip his life turned out to be.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:46 AM

Checkmate.

"Etymology: Middle English chekmaten, from chekmate, interjection used to announce checkmate, from Anglo-French eschec mat, from Arabic shâh mât, from Persian, literally, the king is left unable to escape."

Great game, Bobby. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Brendy
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:47 AM

Nice one Bruce....

B.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:55 AM

As I have mentioned before in these threads, I will never forget the time at a Christmas tournament in Chicago that Bobby wouldn't walk through the lobby of the tourney hotel and insisted on using the kitchen entrance out back. Apparently the other players were hanging out in the lobby. A pushy reporter asked him why he was doing this. Fischer told him: "I can't take all these chess nuts boasting in an open foyer!" -----------------         ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:05 AM

Art. Art. Art. You're incorrigible.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:44 AM

Rest in Peace...

The mystery that was Bobby Fischer. Gifted Genius. Eccentric. Inspired. Radical. A Master who lived the game. And he leaves us to ponder life's greatest chess game, The Mind...

bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:56 AM

Another strange human gone, sorry to hear. Although at least this is a person I knew was alive when he died, the last few have all surprised me by dying when I thought they were long gone...

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:28 AM

He was also an anti-semitic asshole by most accounts.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:44 AM

Fischer's mother was, in fact, Jewish and he was raised in a Jewish neighborhood with Jewish friends. She was Regina Wender Fischer Pustan, a pediatrician who had, in the 1930s, briefly worked as a secretary to eventual Nobel Prizewinner Hermann J. Muller.

It was 'suspected' that she was actually a Soviet spy
and her mail had been read by feds, and her co-workers were interviewed, which often cost her employment.
- from an investigation in the Philadelphia Inquirer

In one broadcast chat while a 'fugitive' (he played Spassky in Yugoslavia despite the State Department forbidding him to play resulting in a warrent for his arrest) Fischer described himself as a victim of an international Jewish conspiracy.

A complex man and a briiliant chess player.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:45 AM

"Despite having a Jewish mother, Fischer was an outspoken anti-Semite, using broadcasts at far-flung radio stations to accuse Jews of everything from his legal woes to an alleged conspiracy to kill off elephants."

from

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hpjkKfonmIFJxdSyG535aNfW6rnQ

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 12:44 PM

Genius sure does have its drawbacks, esp. if it comes on early in life, doesn't it? I had no idea he was an anti-Semite and anti-America until I heard his obit on NPR this morning. Didn't even know he was living in Iceland. I do remember thinking it was pretty kewl a "kid" had beat out the "Communists."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 01:54 PM

I find it interesting how the media and individuals treat celebrity. Face it, Fisher was a celebrity - just like Britany, Paris, Tom, Brad and Angelina and the rest. The difference is, where the others excelled in "popular" arts (movies, music), Fisher excelled in a game that is accepted by academia.

If Britny took a dirt nap today, the headline would mention her downfall before her accompishments (which admittedly are few). Yet Fisher has the "dirt" nearly buried in every obit I read.

When some is a media darling that is accepted by academia and the elite, they nearly get a pass for their flaws. Fisher won a few board games and made a lot of money. He was not someone that I would ever want my kids to admire.

Some people deserve to have their graves danced upon.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 01:59 PM

Yeah. And they ain't all dead yet.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:04 PM

Fischer excelled in a game that is accepted by hundreds of millions, and they are for the most part NOT connected with media. I deplored his politics and always thought he was a bit 'off' (a la Salinger), but he was one helluva chess player, and I like his games, some of which I have studied for longer than a few days, particularly after his match with Spasky back in the day.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:17 PM

That is right - Fischer excelled in a GAME. Roger Clemens excelled in a GAME.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:19 PM

Yes, you are right. So what's your point?

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:25 PM

The point is, they are both only games.   Clemens is looked at with disdain and his accomplishments are negated because he enhanced his skills. Michael Vick excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because of his experiences with dogfighting.   Pete Rose excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because he had a gambling problem.

When Rose, Vick and Clemens pass on - I would bet good money that their obits will be filled with their transgressions off the field of play.   Fischer, who did not have a private problem, is remembered with fondness and his anti-semitism is buried as nearly a side-bar item.

The are simply games. They brought joy to millions whether they used their body or their mind. I find it very curious how they are judged when they cash in their chips.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:44 PM

I agree.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:17 PM

When some is a media darling that is accepted by academia and the elite

Don't blame it on academia. They've gotten pretty thorough in trouncing people who should be entitled to stay in their jobs, let alone folks who actually deserve to lose tenure. More's the pity (free speech seems to be dead).

Fischer had a lot of troubles about 15 years ago from which he ended up negotiating his way into being able to live in Iceland (I think that's what happened). That match in Yugoslavia started those troubles, but I can't say I blamed him for playing the game. There are a lot of places one's government has a beef with that individuals might not hold the same animus toward. His antisocial attitudes were shared with the world at the same time and his disappearance into obscurity seems to have been mutually appreciated. Since he wasn't tried for anything and since he has now passed away, I think you're simply seeing the typical obituary writer's aversion to speaking ill of the dead.

This said, Clemens is alive and is entitled to his day in court (if he doesn't get clobbered by his day in the Congressional hearings). His anger at the statements about his cheating seems much more authentic than we've seen from others, who have tried to simply lay low and hope it passes. I'd suggest you wait to pick on him until after the trial. Sounds like he was an easy target for someone else to try to hide behind. Fischer sounds like a sociopath, or in some other way pathologically delusional.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:31 PM

SRS - if you re-read my post, you will notice that I did not pick on Roger Clemens, and your reaction gets to the point I was making.

The media has hyped up the story surrounding Clemens to the point where his on the field accomplishments are ignored.   The opposite is true about Bobby Fisher.   What Clemens is accused of doing pales, at least in my mind, at the hate the spewed from Fischer. He was not "laying low" - he went on radio in recent years to share his views. His whining about his treatment belies the fact that he knew what he was getting himself into.

There is a double standard.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: open mike
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:37 PM

Recently I heard someone say "I went out to eat with Bobby Fisher, the place had a checkered table cloth, and it took him an our and a half to pass the salt"

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:39 PM

I more-or-less agree with Ron ~ Fischer was a nasty human being, and if his obituaries today gloss over his very public offensive statements, something ain't quite right.

Being good at a game is kinda secondary to being a good person, regardless of whether the game is physical or cerebral. There probably is a bit of injustice or at least hypocricy on the part of the mass media when a chess player "gets a pass" for a lifetime of antisocial behavior while players of athletic sports, when accused of any wrongdoing at all, are pretty universally judged guilty until proven innocent.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 05:52 PM

Ron, you wrote: Clemens is looked at with disdain and his accomplishments are negated because he enhanced his skills. Michael Vick excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because of his experiences with dogfighting.   Pete Rose excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because he had a gambling problem.

The names and the crimes are listed in the paragraph without weight regarding guilt or innocence, yet Vick and Rose were found guilty, and Clemens is only accused. That doesn't show up at all in what you wrote.

Actually, I disagree with your assessment of how their obituaries will be written. Their accomplishments will come first, and their crimes, if any, will be diminished in the write up. That's just how they work.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:42 PM

You are right. I should have used the word "allegedly" in there when I mentioned Clemens - I thought I did include it. Another reason to proofread!

I actually do give Clemens the benefit of the doubt. However, he is looked at with disdain and his accomplishments are being negated by the press and the public because he ALLEGEDLY enhanced his skills.

As to the obits, let's make a friendly wager - hopefully we will outlast them all to see what their obits will say! :)

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:49 PM

I'm with you on that, Ron.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:52 PM

I spent a couple of years writing obits for a local paper. And I read them daily. It's not like I haven't given this some thought.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Greg B
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:53 PM

I remember when I was a Cub Scout he used to write the chess
column in "Boy's Life" magazine.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 03:01 AM

Lets hope he found some peace in his life. he must have lived a tormented existence. so much of his genius and sense of beauty was apparently incommunicable.

The anti semitic stuff was just straight wacko. He must have been in extremis to have found himself in such a place, saying such dreadful things.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 09:50 AM

"I spent a couple of years writing obits for a local paper. And I read them daily. It's not like I haven't given this some thought. "

I'm sure you have. I've given it some thought as well.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 09:59 AM

"he must have lived a tormented existence. so much of his genius and sense of beauty was apparently incommunicable."

You are probably right, but again it goes to the point of who gets a break and who gets to use an excuse. When Dwight Gooden had tremendous success at a young age, being thrust into the limelight and having all sorts of "perks" thrown at him, the press and fans ripped him apart.

I'm glad Bobby Fischer was a genius - but how did it benefit anyone other than himself? Sure, he made the geeks and nerds of the world step into the limelight when chess became front page news of the '70s (I was one of them - joining the chess club at my local school), but how different is that from what atheletes do every day? Their "genius" comes from their athletic ability. While Bobby Fischer trained his "mind", atheletes train their "bodies". When an athelete abuses his gift, or does not work to his full potential - the press and fans will skewer him. Fischer won a few chess matches and that becomes enough.

Just imagine if the star quarterback at this year's superbowl comes out and starts making anti-semitic remarks. What angle to you think the beloved press would take?

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 10:26 AM

On Wikipedia, I think I saw a long list of chess strategies and moves that were attributed to him. So there's that.

                It also said his mother was Jewish, so he was half Jewish, if they're right. And another article called him "a self hating Jew." He was critical of some Jews and some things the Jewish community did. I'm not sure that's the same thing as self hating.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:26 AM

Well its a while from my chess playing days, but people will be looking at the beauty and elegance of his moves in hundreds of years time.

That's what he left us and those people who follow chess, will be benefiting from his existence in that way. Fischer himself once compared chess to classical music: it was a closed book to him; but many people couldn't see the beauty in what he did.

there's no excuse for his offensive behaviour, I wouldn't seek to defend that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:20 PM

Paris Hilton "excelled in 'popular' arts"???

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: autolycus
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:34 PM

Since his mother was Jewish, then he was.

An uncle of mine once referred to someone as strange.
The conversation then went,
Me"So who's normal?"
"Me!"
"Ah, right. And who else?"
"Nobody."


I don't think he's alone with that attitude to others.



meantime, would anyone care to say is normal?


'night.

Ivor

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 07:43 PM

Anyone who is really normal would have to be exceedingly peculiar.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Slag
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 08:13 PM

Peace, your first entry was spot on. Ron O. life is a game or at least is approached by many as a game. As in chess, Fischer liked to keep his opponents off balance. Who were his opponents in life? Just about everyone it seems. He did get pretty shabby treatment by the FIDE, the US press, the uncomprehending US public and ultimately the US government.

Eccentric? In the extreme. A pass? No, but try a little understanding. Very few could even begin to comprehend his genius and that genius served to isolate him. He was a victim of his own brilliance as much as his social upbringing. I don't know if his sister is still alive. It would be quite interesting to her what she has to say. One interview she gave in the seventies she told of the strange upbringing they had. She played chess with him but very soon he surpassed her and his inability to communicate accelerated exponentially.

I understood his anger while at the same time I was revolted by his paranoia against the Jews. He was ripe for that kind of thing as he felt that the US was out to get him. The blossom rotted. A strange and fascinating life and a cautionary tale.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jan 08 - 11:49 PM

"Eccentric? In the extreme. A pass? No, but try a little understanding."

Why?? When you stop and look at his accomplishments, he really did little besides playing chess.   

Sorry, I don't buy that "life is a game" crap. Most games focus on scoring points by beating someone else. A game like chess is just two opponents with no cooperation and only a desire to come out ahead of the opponent. If that is an example of how life is supposed to be lead, we are all in trouble.

People love to throw around a word like "genius" as if that excuses everhything. "A victim of his own brillance"?? Isolated by his own mind? Boo-hoo. Give me a break! We are all victims of our own existence regardless of how brillant we are or aren't. How we deal with our skills defines us as human beings.

He was great at chess, a genius in his chosen field. There are many people who fit that catagory. There are brillant cooks, gardeners, carpenters, teachers, and people who run households and raise families.   Many of these people are caring and sharing and make a difference in the world. These are the people who are deserving of attention, not a little shit like Bobby Fischer.

Why does anyone need to justify anger and hatred?   Just because someone is "eccentric" or excells in a skill does not necessarilly make them a "genius" that deserves admiration. There is no great loss here, he did little more than fill his pockets and seemingly cared about little else.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Slag
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:43 AM

Gee, you're a nice guy Ron. He WAS a genius. Chess is a marvelous game, the royal game. There was even a time when the common folk were not allowed to play the game under penalty of death. It's one of the oldest of games. Sorry you can't appreciate that.

As for life being a game I see you are not familiar with game theory. It is a key element in modern psychology and understanding gamesmanship and what constitutes a "pay-off" gives one a great insight into human nature. Of course you can disagree. It is just my opinion after all. And my name isn't preceded by a radio station's call letters.

Fischer had a great imbalance in his life. He resembled an idiot savant more than a genius. He was almost infantile in his social skills. The game and what he added to it deserve my admiration. His tragic life, to me, was very interesting and instructive. Every life has some worth at some point. He was to be pitied for his short comings. Apparently you don't have any of those.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 04:43 AM

I know thee a lotof good cooks, parents, craftsmen, gardeners, etc.

But few of these are the most outstanding (poosibly in history) at what they do.His games are of such brilliance that his moves will be studied - like Capablanca and Botvinic, as long as the game is played.

In Great Britain we are not kind or helpful to our geniuses. the late Georgie Best, the footballer; Alex Higgins, the snooker player and Eric Clapton; they've all had wealthy but very difficlt lives. Nevertheless I think we may have absorbed Fischer's nuttiness better.

You may be the last best hope of freedom, but you suffer from a 'one size fits all' few of conformity. After all they were only Fischer's daft opinions - its not like he opened a concentration camp.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: autolycus
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 06:16 AM

Correction.
That should have read,

"Would anyone care to say what is normal?"


Ron, lots of people treat life like chess. In the sense that they consider various options, think about what the possible outcomes might be, decide which outcome they most want, and make the appropriate choice to achieve that outcome. Or imagine what to say, what the response is bound to be, not like the response they are certain will take place, and so say something else. Not to get points all the time, just a better position, or just to survive.

Ivor

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 09:49 AM

"You may be the last best hope of freedom, but you suffer from a 'one size fits all' few of conformity."

That's not the case. His lifestyle and choice were his own, just as they are for all of us. When that life has a negative effect on others, that is where critism is deserved. If you feel that non-conformity is offering excuses for anti-semitic rantings, so be it. Some of you seem to overlook his "shortcomings" and remember him as a genius, but when I raise my opinion - some of you seem to take exception to that. Isn't that looking for a "one size fits all" conformity?   When someone points out that the idol has feet of clay, it is okay to shoot the messenger? Sounds like a double standard.

No, Bobby Fischer did not open up a concention camp. Hatred does not need to get to that level before someone says "no".

The point I was trying to make is that there is a lot of hypocrisy going on with Bobby Fischer. If some of the other celebrities mentioned said and did the things the Fischer publicly did, they would not be looked at so fondly.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 12:02 PM

Bobby Fischer Tribute...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht-OqiuWVMk

Portrait of a man who spent his life intensely concentrating on a game of war. The object of which, in Fischer's words, was "to crush your opponent's mind..."

"The predominant thought or the mental attitude is the magnet, and the law is that like attracts like, consequently, the mental attitude will invariably attract such conditions as corresponds to its nature." Charles Haanel (1866-1949)

"Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life's coming attractions." Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

"All that we are is a result of what we have thought." Buddha (563BCE-483BCE)

bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: fretless
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 12:52 PM

I'm joining this a bit late, but frankly, Ron, the obits for Fischer that I read seemed to me to offer a reasonable balance between acknowledging his incredible strengths as a chess player and his painful flaws as an inadequate human being and self-hating Jewish anti-Semite.

Fischer attended the same high school I did: Brooklyn's Erasmus Hall High School. He not only dropped out at 16 but also trashed the school in the city's press, a fact for which some at least of those of us who followed him into those venerable classrooms idolized him.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:18 PM

I don't think any of us got near enough Fischer to look upon him fondly - just with a degree of compassion and incomprehension.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:30 PM

I liked Fischer because he could play chess, a game I loved in my youth. I knew nothing of his 'other self'. Had I, I think I would not have studied his games. Frankly, that would have been my loss. For any of you chess players out there, here is a link to over 900 of his games. You can click and watch the play. It's a neat site.

Fischer's games: 938 of 'em. Interactive.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 01:35 PM

BTW, I was looking back to a game I only ever saw on paper. Man, he opens P to QB4 against Spasky in 1972.

The Game.