Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)[Jan 2008]

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:49 PM

I'm with you on that, Ron.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 07:42 PM

You are right. I should have used the word "allegedly" in there when I mentioned Clemens - I thought I did include it. Another reason to proofread!

I actually do give Clemens the benefit of the doubt. However, he is looked at with disdain and his accomplishments are being negated by the press and the public because he ALLEGEDLY enhanced his skills.

As to the obits, let's make a friendly wager - hopefully we will outlast them all to see what their obits will say! :)

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 05:52 PM

Ron, you wrote: Clemens is looked at with disdain and his accomplishments are negated because he enhanced his skills. Michael Vick excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because of his experiences with dogfighting.   Pete Rose excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because he had a gambling problem.

The names and the crimes are listed in the paragraph without weight regarding guilt or innocence, yet Vick and Rose were found guilty, and Clemens is only accused. That doesn't show up at all in what you wrote.

Actually, I disagree with your assessment of how their obituaries will be written. Their accomplishments will come first, and their crimes, if any, will be diminished in the write up. That's just how they work.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:39 PM

I more-or-less agree with Ron ~ Fischer was a nasty human being, and if his obituaries today gloss over his very public offensive statements, something ain't quite right.

Being good at a game is kinda secondary to being a good person, regardless of whether the game is physical or cerebral. There probably is a bit of injustice or at least hypocricy on the part of the mass media when a chess player "gets a pass" for a lifetime of antisocial behavior while players of athletic sports, when accused of any wrongdoing at all, are pretty universally judged guilty until proven innocent.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: open mike
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:37 PM

Recently I heard someone say "I went out to eat with Bobby Fisher, the place had a checkered table cloth, and it took him an our and a half to pass the salt"

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:31 PM

SRS - if you re-read my post, you will notice that I did not pick on Roger Clemens, and your reaction gets to the point I was making.

The media has hyped up the story surrounding Clemens to the point where his on the field accomplishments are ignored.   The opposite is true about Bobby Fisher.   What Clemens is accused of doing pales, at least in my mind, at the hate the spewed from Fischer. He was not "laying low" - he went on radio in recent years to share his views. His whining about his treatment belies the fact that he knew what he was getting himself into.

There is a double standard.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 04:17 PM

When some is a media darling that is accepted by academia and the elite

Don't blame it on academia. They've gotten pretty thorough in trouncing people who should be entitled to stay in their jobs, let alone folks who actually deserve to lose tenure. More's the pity (free speech seems to be dead).

Fischer had a lot of troubles about 15 years ago from which he ended up negotiating his way into being able to live in Iceland (I think that's what happened). That match in Yugoslavia started those troubles, but I can't say I blamed him for playing the game. There are a lot of places one's government has a beef with that individuals might not hold the same animus toward. His antisocial attitudes were shared with the world at the same time and his disappearance into obscurity seems to have been mutually appreciated. Since he wasn't tried for anything and since he has now passed away, I think you're simply seeing the typical obituary writer's aversion to speaking ill of the dead.

This said, Clemens is alive and is entitled to his day in court (if he doesn't get clobbered by his day in the Congressional hearings). His anger at the statements about his cheating seems much more authentic than we've seen from others, who have tried to simply lay low and hope it passes. I'd suggest you wait to pick on him until after the trial. Sounds like he was an easy target for someone else to try to hide behind. Fischer sounds like a sociopath, or in some other way pathologically delusional.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:44 PM

I agree.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:25 PM

The point is, they are both only games.   Clemens is looked at with disdain and his accomplishments are negated because he enhanced his skills. Michael Vick excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because of his experiences with dogfighting.   Pete Rose excelled at his game and his accomplishments are negated because he had a gambling problem.

When Rose, Vick and Clemens pass on - I would bet good money that their obits will be filled with their transgressions off the field of play.   Fischer, who did not have a private problem, is remembered with fondness and his anti-semitism is buried as nearly a side-bar item.

The are simply games. They brought joy to millions whether they used their body or their mind. I find it very curious how they are judged when they cash in their chips.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:19 PM

Yes, you are right. So what's your point?

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:17 PM

That is right - Fischer excelled in a GAME. Roger Clemens excelled in a GAME.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 02:04 PM

Fischer excelled in a game that is accepted by hundreds of millions, and they are for the most part NOT connected with media. I deplored his politics and always thought he was a bit 'off' (a la Salinger), but he was one helluva chess player, and I like his games, some of which I have studied for longer than a few days, particularly after his match with Spasky back in the day.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 01:59 PM

Yeah. And they ain't all dead yet.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 01:54 PM

I find it interesting how the media and individuals treat celebrity. Face it, Fisher was a celebrity - just like Britany, Paris, Tom, Brad and Angelina and the rest. The difference is, where the others excelled in "popular" arts (movies, music), Fisher excelled in a game that is accepted by academia.

If Britny took a dirt nap today, the headline would mention her downfall before her accompishments (which admittedly are few). Yet Fisher has the "dirt" nearly buried in every obit I read.

When some is a media darling that is accepted by academia and the elite, they nearly get a pass for their flaws. Fisher won a few board games and made a lot of money. He was not someone that I would ever want my kids to admire.

Some people deserve to have their graves danced upon.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 12:44 PM

Genius sure does have its drawbacks, esp. if it comes on early in life, doesn't it? I had no idea he was an anti-Semite and anti-America until I heard his obit on NPR this morning. Didn't even know he was living in Iceland. I do remember thinking it was pretty kewl a "kid" had beat out the "Communists."

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:45 AM

"Despite having a Jewish mother, Fischer was an outspoken anti-Semite, using broadcasts at far-flung radio stations to accuse Jews of everything from his legal woes to an alleged conspiracy to kill off elephants."

from

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hpjkKfonmIFJxdSyG535aNfW6rnQ

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:44 AM

Fischer's mother was, in fact, Jewish and he was raised in a Jewish neighborhood with Jewish friends. She was Regina Wender Fischer Pustan, a pediatrician who had, in the 1930s, briefly worked as a secretary to eventual Nobel Prizewinner Hermann J. Muller.

It was 'suspected' that she was actually a Soviet spy
and her mail had been read by feds, and her co-workers were interviewed, which often cost her employment.
- from an investigation in the Philadelphia Inquirer

In one broadcast chat while a 'fugitive' (he played Spassky in Yugoslavia despite the State Department forbidding him to play resulting in a warrent for his arrest) Fischer described himself as a victim of an international Jewish conspiracy.

A complex man and a briiliant chess player.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 11:28 AM

He was also an anti-semitic asshole by most accounts.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:56 AM

Another strange human gone, sorry to hear. Although at least this is a person I knew was alive when he died, the last few have all surprised me by dying when I thought they were long gone...

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:44 AM

Rest in Peace...

The mystery that was Bobby Fischer. Gifted Genius. Eccentric. Inspired. Radical. A Master who lived the game. And he leaves us to ponder life's greatest chess game, The Mind...

bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 10:05 AM

Art. Art. Art. You're incorrigible.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:55 AM

As I have mentioned before in these threads, I will never forget the time at a Christmas tournament in Chicago that Bobby wouldn't walk through the lobby of the tourney hotel and insisted on using the kitchen entrance out back. Apparently the other players were hanging out in the lobby. A pushy reporter asked him why he was doing this. Fischer told him: "I can't take all these chess nuts boasting in an open foyer!" -----------------         ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Brendy
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:47 AM

Nice one Bruce....

B.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Peace
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:46 AM

Checkmate.

"Etymology: Middle English chekmaten, from chekmate, interjection used to announce checkmate, from Anglo-French eschec mat, from Arabic shâh mât, from Persian, literally, the king is left unable to escape."

Great game, Bobby. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:45 AM

But what a sad, strange trip his life turned out to be.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:11 AM

There goes one of the few Chess Superstars... one who will be remembered as a great player, and one of the few whose name we could spell and pronounce.

LTS

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 09:07 AM

Yup. He made quite a splash in 72. RIP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Brendy
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 08:59 AM

Just heard this.

He was the one who turned me on to Chess all those years ago.

I still have a copy of the game moves from that championship written down in an old notebook.

We're all mortal.....

B.

Subject: Obit: Bobby Fischer (Chessmaster)
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 08 - 08:50 AM

REYKJAVIK, Iceland (AP) - Bobby Fischer, the reclusive American chess master who became a Cold War icon when he dethroned the Soviet Union's Boris Spassky as world champion in 1972, has died. He was 64. Fischer died Thursday in a Reykjavik hospital, his spokesman, Gardar Sverrisson, said. There was no immediate word on the cause of death.