Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 07:23 PM

Well Matt and guest, what's stopping you getting out there playing and singing folk music? Do you only do it for money? There's a word for that too.

Opera has to be subsidised if it is to survive (not that I'd be all that bothered if it didn't) because of the expense of staging it. Now how's that again about folk music?

Just what do you want central funding to preserve? Concerts? 'Nuff said.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 03:01 PM

"""""<<<>>>

Many mudcatters are perfectly content to sit in ther onanistic little groups in pubs, playing mediocre folk music to each other and stroking their beards and thinking how worthy they are in continuing the tradition, while in the world outside the people who work their arses off to help young musicians and to turn more people on to folk not only get hamstrung by the funding system but can't even rely on the support of others in the folk world, who fold their arms smugly saying "I told you so".

You sit there contemplating your bel cantos and your authenticity, Richard Bridge, until you disappear up your own backside. But when I think about all those soon to be lost opportunities for people to discover folk music I could cry.""""

THAT IS A GREAT POST

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 02:59 PM

My experience (15 years of Arts Council England funded arts organisations) is that no lobbying will reverse the decision. WE SHOULD STILL DO IT but it won't change the decision - its wrong to go down without a fight

One quarter of all funding is under threat, get as paranoid as you like, but its NOT an anti folk/traditional music thing..... its a government directive in order to fund the Olympics.

Admittedly, many music and arts projects have a focus on wanting to fund "new" work, so the folk arts have to be imaginative and creative in their bids - and they often are.

But NO funder is going to fund organisations who want to carry on doing what they have always done unless they are going to add to their value - more people, different people, new approaches, imaginative collaborations etc etc etc

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:18 PM

Cath,

Can you let me know where I can get more details? Any thoughts on who we should be lobbying?

Cheers

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Cath
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 01:10 PM

Yorkshire Arts has run an Artists in Residence scheme for many years with people like Pete Coe, Gordon Tyrrall involved. I got a letter a day or so back saying that this scheme is being cut.
It is not exclusively folk artists but it is probably the one that covers areas of North Yorkshire mentioned by Banjiman.
Cath

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:21 PM

Thanks Ruth, yes Richmondshire, which includes Reeth (as mentioned above) has it's own provision for funding "village hall" type gigs.

Thanks for all the info. I think I'll just quietly keep running Kirby Fleetham Folk Club and Winter Warmer Weekend....we haven't needed a subsidy yet (apart from the odd free pint from the landlord!)and are still managing to put on "quality" acts.

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:01 PM

Let's not forget that the only reason rural touring was mentioned was because you asked what sorts of folk activity receive subsidy - as far as I know, there's no direct threat (currently) to rural touring.

Apparently On Tour North Yorkshire covers all areas except Richmondshire (though that means nothing to me!). So keep an eye out for the programme.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:41 AM

North Yorkshire.

Does the The Rural Touring Networks cover all areas, if so I guess any reduction in funding would have an impact on some of the larger Village Hall gigs up here, Reeth for example? Local acts are given support slots for these so this would concern me.

I still can't get over the £9m for Opera North....why not cut some of that? What a waste of money!

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:32 AM

Hi Banjiman,

I wasn't referring to you, but to Richard Bridge. We've had some, er, lively discussions on the topic in the past.

I don't know where you're from, so it's hard to say what impact ACE funding might have had, either now or in the past...

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:26 AM

Ruth,

I'm certainly not rejecting subsidy...I ain't no purist....I'm just trying to evaluate the impact of any reduction in Arts Council Funding and if I should/ can do anything to resist it.

The organisations you mention above are a long way from my local area....I can't really lobby anyone around these. Locally impact look minimal.

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:26 AM

Thank you GUEST,disgusted - same guest as above. Indeed many opportunities will be lost..The "Village Hall circuit" is an important one, because it allows for affordable concerts, with the likes, as Ruth says, of John Kirkpatrick, Chris Wood etc with that outlet gone, how many could afford some of the Arts Centre ticket prices on a regular basis?

this from the BBC West Midlands website on Sunday 20th January:

Plans have been unveiled for a new-look £13.6m building to house two of Birmingham's arts organisations.
Council chiefs are considering ways to revamp the building of the Midlands Arts Centre (Mac) and south Asian arts group Sampad in Cannon Hill Park.

Birmingham City Council will put £6.22m into the project, while the rest of the cash will come from Arts Council England and fundraising.

A new building will house a gallery, media suite and space for schools.

Though it doesn't say exactly how much funding will come from the Arts Council

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:20 AM

"I suspect quite a few folk projects would be discontinued under (1) ... they're not usually all that expensive."

That doesn't really apply to the core-funded organisations we're talking about - they're funded on a yearly basis for a whole range of work, not from project to project.

And folk projects can cost a lot more than that actually, depending on scale and length.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: IanC
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:07 AM

Quoting from their 2005/6 and 2007/8 budget document ...

From 2005/06, Arts Council England has taken some organisations out of the portfolio. There are four main reasons why we have stopped regular funding:

1. We have applied the policy that we have a minimum threshold for regular funding of £20,000 per year from 2006/07 (with limited exceptions). Where an organisation makes an important contribution to the arts, it may be supported through other sources of funding, such as grants for the arts.

2. Where we consider that weaknesses in the organisation undermines the effectiveness of the funding we provide.

3. Where the restrictions on our funding has forced us to cut some organisations in order to increase the value of funding to others.

4. Where consolidation of grants will achieve more.

I suspect quite a few folk projects would be discontinued under (1) ... they're not usually all that expensive.

:-)

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Ruth at work
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:02 AM

Banjiman:

Folk South West and TAPS (Traditional Arts Projects) have been Arts Council Regularly Funded Organisations for many years, so look on their websites and see what they've been doing all this time, for a start. SEFAN has, I believe, received Arts Council funding in the past, as has the Wren Trust, and Folkworks. If you go to the websites for any of these regional organisations (all Googlable) you'll see what kind of work is under threat. These organisations have supported some of our finest young musicians and singers in their development. Marilyn Tucker from Wren Trust points out that Jim Causley first heard a folk song at one of their events. He's not alone: many of the "bright young things" of folk will have had their first experiences of traditional music and dance through the work of these agencies.

Many festival organisations recieve bits of ACE funding, usually for their community work. My festival/venue has received ACE subsidy for outreach work in folk music and dance, which is ongoing in our community.

The Rural Touring Networks are subsidised regional schemes which bring the arts into rural communities, and as a result many folk artists have played village halls and community centres around the country: John Kirkpatrick, Chris Wood, etc. Not to mention the various ceilidhs run under the scheme. Naturally, lovcal promoters could never afford to bring these acts/events in if they weren't subsidised.


Purists who reject subsidy as somehow sullying the artform need a reality check. It's subsidy that keeps a lot of folk activity going.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:58 AM

Thanks guests Cats & Jon. I can see little of interest for the people involved in folk music to get worried about in Yorkshire....not many "folk" organisations appear to get funding anyway. National Centre for Early Music is the only one that would concern me.

If I am mistaken, can someone put me right?


The 9m to Opera North is a scandal though! Let's hope they cut this.

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:38 AM

http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/regions/index.php, cats

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:36 AM

If you go to http://www.artscouncil.org.uk/regions/index.php you will find a list of regions and you just follow the links to see who has had funding in your area. It is done county by county. There are too many to list.

Help ~ can someone do a blue clicky on this~ thanks

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Banjiman
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 09:58 AM

Can someone put together a list or some examples of "folk" opportunities that are Arts Council funded....this would give me a better insight as to if I should sit on my "onanistic" (whatever that means) ass or do something active to help?

Thanks

Paul

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,disgusted - same guest as above
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 09:47 AM

<<<>>>

Many mudcatters are perfectly content to sit in ther onanistic little groups in pubs, playing mediocre folk music to each other and stroking their beards and thinking how worthy they are in continuing the tradition, while in the world outside the people who work their arses off to help young musicians and to turn more people on to folk not only get hamstrung by the funding system but can't even rely on the support of others in the folk world, who fold their arms smugly saying "I told you so".

You sit there contemplating your bel cantos and your authenticity, Richard Bridge, until you disappear up your own backside. But when I think about all those soon to be lost opportunities for people to discover folk music I could cry.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:50 AM

I wonder if some of the silence is rooted in certain unease about a professional subsidised sector in what is in essence a participative artform.

Certainly I would be uneasy about a too-rigid application of a "Quality" concept in an artform that is almost by definition alien to "bel canto". For folk art forms in general "authenticity" would be a better criterion.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:40 AM

On last nights local TV there was an article about over 26,000 signatures having been received to help save the funding for the Northcott Theatre in Exeter. The local MP said he had had more letters and e mail about that than anything else in the 11 years he had been the MP. Again the reason for not givng funding seems to be 'the Quality' but no one will say what the quality threshold is. Perhaps we shopuld all contact our MP's and MEP's about the cutting back of Folk Funding from the Arts Council perhaps they might get more e mails and letters about that then anything else. Remember, you can contact the MP for an area if you live, work or use the services in that area. There are loads of MP's in the South West for a start....

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Saro
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 07:46 AM

Guest, I'll bump this back upm to the top and say that I think you are right about the importance of the topic, but I also suspect that some people are feeling "what can we do", and having no answer, are just keeping quiet. I believe that Folk South West has funding for the coming year, but I also understand that TAPS (Roger Watson et.al) will lose their funding for the coming year. I hope the appeals have some effect, but I'm not confident.   When one thinks of the huge numbers of young performers (not to mention those less young) who have benefited from these organisations, and the amount they have then contributed to various communities, it seems appalling that they cannot continue to receive the small amount of funding they were already getting.
And does anyone know about Folkworks?
Saro

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 05:56 AM

As I watch this thread drift down to mid-table obscurity again, and see the relatively sparse dialogue it has stimulated (while people get their knickers in a twist over the floatiness or not of the Unthanks dresses and other such trivia), I can't help wondering what topic could really be more important than this to the UK folk scene.

If the regional folk development agencies disappear, who is going to develop and support the folk audiences of the future? Who is going to introduce people to their rich heritage of music, song and dance? This is a huge issue, and when one considers the money pit that is "high art" in England (I bet the ROH isn't wondering where its next handout is coming from), a complete disgrace.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:20 PM

Our local theatre is facing the chop because of this as well. Interesting article in last Saturday's Guardian Review section about the whole background to this.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:20 PM

Arts Council, National Environmental Research Council, academic research from archaeology to whatever ology of your choice begins with z, the National Archives, heritage works of just about every hue, not to mention stealthy increases in taxation (yet again)...I hope that someone with more time and energy than me is keeping track of all these contributions to the bottomless pit of 2012, if only to haunt the fatherless sons who are doing this to every last one of us for the benefit of their own tawdry political kudos. Get it in soon chaps, 'cos the buggers will be making it a criminal offence to say a word against it before long. The organisers (now there's a contradiction in terms) have already tried to sue an author for using the word olympic in a title.
Keep smiling, it's only pain.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: selby
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 02:50 PM

The Olympics is not a national thing its a London thing like the Dome and Channel Tunnel but its for the benifit of the whole country, NOT.
The sad thing as far as as I know the folkie world has done lots of things with grants to promote Traditional Music and include communities but when the funding is chopped. The people responsible are unable to see whats been achived and think of us as a minority group and worthless.Instead of an all inclusive group with riches beyond their dreams ufortunately those riches are not monetary.
Keith

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 01:07 PM

Dead right McGrath.

Ah, the hard times of old England....

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:44 PM

The Olympics - when did any of us get asked whether we wanted to have this overpriced rubbish imposed on us?

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: gnomad
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:35 PM

I begrudge every penny taken away from folk, especially when I suspect it will be mis-spent on such as the Olympics, but can anyone quote any numbers here?
While I am sure that those affected will include a number of programmes of which I would approve, I have long felt that we don't get that much anyway. Or has folk been the beneficiary of some great largess for which our government were too ashamed to claim the credit?

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:17 PM

Someone like to let us know the position with Folkworks?

We get this every time there's a funding cut - and it's not just folk this time by any means (e.g. Northcott Theatre in Exeter). The 'artistic reasons' are NEVER justified - they should be honest and simply say "our funding has been cut - we have less to give away - our decisions are essentially arbitary, because whatever reason we give there will be counter-arguments." If this runs true to form, more organisations will be threatened than are actually cut: this is so that the ACE can claim 'reprieve' and try to salvage some glory.

Dr. T. W. Brown

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: oggie
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:21 AM

Tradarts (Roger Watson) is in the same position of losing funding.

Steve

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:38 AM

Sian is right. We may just be talking about funding being cut for the South West Region. FSW covers Cornwall, Dorset, Devon, Somerset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire. Other regions may not be affected or may be impacted in other ways. We need to know more facts before judging.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:12 AM

If the vote/decision of the Arts Council DOES go against 'folk', then you must use the music to make them reverse that decision. I do believe that protest songs appeared in traditional music. They were written for a reason. I wish you all the best of luck.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:08 AM

I'm shocked to hear this and it would be good to get details re: how the other English regional groups are doing. The initial message seems to assume that all will suffer the same fate as the one; t'ain't necessarily so.

Just a bit of pendantry now. Let's be precise and say "Arts Council of England". Scotland, N. Ireland and Wales all have their own ACs, which is not to say that those of us in those areas are 'safe' of course.

As Director of trac (www.trac-cymru.org) I'm on the ACWales Umbrella Bodies forum and we've been told point-blank that the next three (or so) years are going to be as choppy as hell, and that there WILL be some organizations which will be cut - core funding and project funding. It actually started last year, and none of us are safe. And, yes, the Olympics plays a huge part in all this. I think the misery will be right across the board, as it is in England; readers who aren't in the thick of all this should be told that the ACE cuts, and wooly statements re: 'quality', are being challenged by theatres/drama clients, and others as well.

In Wales, a lot of Arts organizations are being told to talk to each other and merge with similar funded bodies where at all possible to save on overheads and rationalize work. We already work on a shoestring with very low overheads and few merger possibilities; I have no idea how 'safe' our funding is but we've made great efforts to tie ourselves in with other government priorities like 'social cohesion' and 'cultural tourism' and ACW doesn't core fund any other 'trad arts' outfit ... so we're ploughing on.

Anyway, fingers crossed for all of us, and particularly for Folk South West.

sian

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:25 AM

I know that they have given Folk South West various 'reasons' which FSW do not accept and are appealing. Good luck to them.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: mattkeen
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:01 AM

Does anybody actually KNOW why the funding has come to an end?


Pointless sniping about the Arts Council won't get us anywhere by the way.


For what its worth, I was at a Folkarts Arts Council funded weekend before Christmas, and it was great, and the Arts Council Music Officer in the East Midlands was there, very enthusiastic, and a very fine folk fiddler to boot.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:11 AM

The Arts Council wouldn't know "Quality" if it bit them in the butt.
Ray

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: IanC
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:04 AM

No. I was listening to the radio last week and thought this might happen. They've changed the basis of Arts Council funding from "Social Utility" to "Quality". This means that in future the Arts Council will only fund stuff that only rich people will (still) be able to afford to go to.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:02 AM

The correct email is: [e-mail]
as kindly corrected by Pete Coe on the eceilidh list in the middle of the night.
Consequently, I got my email in on time.
It might still be worth sending yours.

Subject: RE: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:57 AM

I think this might be the 'Olympic Effect'.

Subject: Arts Council (UK) stopping funding folk?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:50 AM

This was on the Morris Dance Discussion List today:

Eddie Upton of Folk South West is about to lose his funding from the
Arts Council. We assume this applies to all the regional folk
organisations (Roger Watson, Carolyn Robson, Gail Duff...).

To appeal an email has to reach the Arts Council before 9.00 tomorrow
(Monday) morning at

[e-mail]

Please Help!

Steve & Jane Cunio