Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van

Subject: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Joe G
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:15 AM

Hi

Hope this is not too off topic but I am getting desperate!

To enjoy more festivals in comfort this year we are planning to get a Berlingo converted to a camper van by removing the back seats and installing seats that will convert into a bed - we don't really want all the other gubbins (coooker, sink etc)as we want the full width of the vehicle for the bed but this means that we are struggling to find anyone to insure it as it would not be officially classed as a motor caravan. The work would be done by a professional company who converts motor caravans.

Has anyone done something similar and can offer any advice?

thanks

Joe G.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:40 AM

Why do you think you have to insure it differently?

No-one who used to sleep in the back of their Morris Traveller/Renault 4/Austin Maxi or whatever disclosed this sort of information to their insurers.

I'd imagine your van will be less vulnerable to theft with bodies asleep in the back so you might even get a discount if you tell them.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:14 AM

I probably don't understand your local rules, but why are you worried about it being classified as a camper van? With the modifications described it's still a Berlingo, just with a blanket in the back seat.

Although practices here (US) probably are quite different, the normal thing would be to add a rider to homeowners insurance to cover "personal property that might be carried in a vehicle" and register, insure, and pay taxes on the vehicle the same as before any such minor modification. If you need lien insurance to cover the cost of the modification, the only thing that should matter is the amount of the lien, and that the vehicle is worth the amount insured - without any real regard for what it's called.

The professional company doing the modification should be able to advise you if there are legal requirements to do something else.

(Actually, my main reason for posting at all is that responses are usually quicker after the second or third post, so we might shake out someone who knows something. Despite cross-posting with Diane, I'll put it up anyway.)

John

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: The PA
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:18 AM

Perhaps if you contact a 'caravan club' type organisations they may be able to help. My 4 x 4 is a bit of a 'mongrel' and I go through a specialist 'off-road' club insurance, although I don't off-road. (well not usually intentionally, anyway).

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:26 AM

I should think that without 'other' facilities, it will still be classified as just a Citroen Berlingo. After all many cars have fully reclining seats that can be made up as a bed, but they are not specially classified.
If you are worried about insurance, I suggest you speak to Adrian Flux Insurance, they are specialist insurers, who deal a lot in campers and caravans. They will be able to advise whether you need special insurance.
Giok

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Marje
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:28 AM

I'd have thought your insurance oompany could well refuse to pay up if you made a claim and they found you'd made substantial alterations to the interior and (arguably)changed the purpose of the vehicle. You usually have to confirm when you insure that it is a standard model and that it hasn't been altered.

But camper vans aren't particularly difficult or expensive to insure - they're often low-mileage and well maintained. You could try the Caravan and Camping Club, who have their own camper-van insurance service. I think they'd know how best to insure a hybrid conversion that doesn't easily fit into any category. There may also be a Citroen owners' club that could advise.

Marje

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:30 AM

Insurance has two goals, usually-- to protect you against financial loss, and to protect others against their financial loss as a result of your actions.

So unless you plan to increase your personal risk exposure (or others') by:

<> Carrying a passenger in the sleeping section without a seatbelt
<> Transporting instruments or other valuables in some less-secure position because of thre modifications
<> Renting sleeping or transporting space to someone else....

...I don't see that you need the insurance other than it's still a Berlingo, just with a blanket in the back seat as JiK indicates above.


As far as I know, no one here is an insurance expert in your locale, but I do know that any time you ask any insurance person up front whether insurance is "needed," they will tell you YES or that your planned action will not be covered in case of accident, because they're all about the risk view of a thing. And I also think that the more you look into this, the more likely it is that you will put yourself in the position of having known "enough" about it to have "known better" and thus expose yourself to a negligence accusation.

Instead of consulting an insurance person, I'd suggest you consult an attorney who can advise you what is REALLY required in your situation in your locale, and THEN contact insurance people for quotes if it turns out that there is a legal situation requiring you to insure your vehicle differently.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,Black Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:58 AM

I remember a few years ago reading that someone had been refused a claim of vehicle theft (UK)because they had put 'go faster stripes' on their vehicle.
Reason cited was that this gave the impression that the vehicle was 'souped up' and therefore more likely to attract thieves attentions.
Another newspaper gave a list of items that insurance companies stated would invalidate the insurance unless declared at the time of taking out the policy. From memory, this included things like alloy wheels, tinted windows, 'super' radio aerials, paint jobs and the list seemed endless.
Must be worthwhile checking with your insurer IMO.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: jonm
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:16 AM

Most UK insurers ask the question "has the vehicle been modified?" when setting up insurance. I would simply confirm the modifications undertaken - a different rear seat, purchased and fitted by a vehicle conversion specialist. They may not change the cost of the policy at all.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:12 AM

jonm has given you part of the answer. The other bit relates to the type of work done in the conversion and the type of insurance you are loking for.

Motorhome conversions include nasty things such as gas and electrics. There is no way for the insurer to know whether these have been done properly so you will be a greater risk. Motorhome insurance, surprisingly, is quite cheap. I pay a little over £400 for £30 odd K's worth of motorhome and that includes a lot of extras such as contents insurance. Someone driving a motorhome isn't likely to be tearing around the countryside so they're quite a low risk. The same cannot necessarily be said of someone who has simply ripped the seats out of a van and installed all sorts of non-standard gubbins - I'd guess they would look at you as a greater risk.

I have insured through a broker in Leeds - Safeguard - for the last 12 years, why not give them a call and explain the position.
Ray

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:39 AM

This broker specialises in motorhomes and camper vans. They also specifically cover DIY conversions. I expect that if you put in gas, they will require it to be inspected by a CORGI- registered gas fitter.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 11:49 AM

If you still need advice (assuming you are in UK) then try UK.REC.DRIVING

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: gnomad
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:03 PM

Like guest, Ray, I dealt with Safeguard for some 10 years, and found them good. Very efficient and helpful, and not costly either. I no longer have a camper, but would readily go back to them if I had.

Address is Woodside House, 261 Low Lane, Horsforth, Leeds LS18 5NY, phone no 0800 977 5953

website

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Kampervan
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:37 PM

When it comes to dealing with motor insurance logic doesn't enter into it. Basically if you don't tell them something,in the event of a claim, you could well find yourself not-insured.

I would agree with the contributors above who say go to an insurer who specialises in camper conversions. Ordinary insurance companies just run a mile or give you a silly price cos they don't really want the business.

Tell the specialist everything you've done (or going to do) and you should find that you get a good price. If you can undertake to restrict the mileage to 3000 or 5000 a year that will help a lot too.

Good luck. It'll be worth it.

K/van

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Joe G
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:16 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies. Just to confirm that I do need to have special insurance on the basis we will be removing the rear seats and changing the way rear passengers are(rarely)carried ie they would be on a side facing seat. I would not take the risk of my insurance being invalid because of this and my insurers have confrmed that they would not cover me.

If the vehicle is classed as a motor home that is not so much of a problem as there are a number of companies who would probably cover us for around £400. However to be classed as a motor home there are several things such as fixed cooking facilities that we do not want as we want the full width of the vehicle as the bed. We have tried several specialist insurers of custom vehicles but only one is interested at a premium of £600 which is getting to the point of making it uneconomic.

I'm awaiting a response from the DfT re the exact definition of a motor caravan and in the meantime I'll try a few of the sugeestions made above. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 04:38 PM

Sort of stupid thing Insurance companies come out with (Could be worth a different thread)

Them: Any changes in circumstance?

Me: Yes, my son is now employed by me. Part time. he is classed as a director of the company.

Them: In that case then your insurance goes up £20.

Me: Why? He still drives about 10 minutes a month. Still sits in front of the computer all day. Nothing has changed.

Them: Yes, but he is now in a high powered job.

Me: No he isn't. I just said, he does the same as before. He is classed as a director for tax purposes.

Them: He is very young to be a director though. Likely to get a better car.

Me: When he does he can insure it himself. I'll tell you what. I'll gety quotes from other people shall I?

Them: What? For twenty pounds?

Me: Yes. As you say. Circumstances have changed. I can probably get it cheaper elsewhere now.

Them: Tell you what. We can offer a £20 loyalty discount...

Just who do these people think they are kidding?

:D

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Joe G
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 08:39 AM

Further to my travails and in case anyone else is considering doing the same I have now had a very helpful response from Safeguard and their associated Budget Insurance companies (both part of Swinton I think). They both only require bed, cupboards, removable table and water storage and the insurance is around the £400 mark which is not great but better than £600. It is high partly because I may need to use the vehicle for commuting. If I wanted to use the car for work journeys it would take it over £500 so I will have to manage on public transport - which I do mosty of the time now.

All I need now is confirmation from the Dft of how they classify a motor home - I suspecty I will be waiting a while for a reply!

Joe G.

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 08:56 AM

Cut your losses- get a caravan/trailer tent!

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 11:54 AM

Might be worthwhile investigating the Citroen Car Club and/or 2CVGB. I do know that discounted insurance is available even for converted vehicles via the clubs. They do like you to join though.

Compared to an H Van camper van conversion (the cuboid corrugated iron device once seen at every French market) I would have thought that converting and insuring a Berlingo would be a doddle! And you don't have to worry about obsolete tyre sizes, 3 speed back to front gearbox, deckchair driving seat, fwd with no power steering, 70 kph top speed and similar Gallic charms.

Course you could go completely left field and convert a Deux Chevaux van....

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:03 PM

I don't think that the dept of transport classify motorhomes any differently than cars. I don't think it matters as long as its used as a private vehicle (years ago a mate of mine used to run around in a single decker bus - the tax was the same as a car and he drove it on the same license)
Ray

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 21 Oct 10 - 07:09 PM

Wow - this is an old one - I eventually got my insurance through an offshoot of Swinton as described above - they wanted to put the insurance up by about £100 but I got an alternative quote and miraculously got it back down to what I was paying - ridiculous though to cost twice as much as it did when it was a car given that the main difference is that it has a seats that cnvert to a bed in the back!!

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 10:12 AM

You might not like this Joe, but I re-insured the same vehicle last year with the Caravan Club - its now valued at just over 20K. I renewed the insurance a few weeks ago and the premium (with max NCD) came to £211.00. If you're a member, give them a call.
Ray

Subject: RE: Insurance for a Sort of Camper Van
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Oct 10 - 04:08 PM

Insurance companies are thieves.

I have three Volvos.

If I want to insure ONE I can get it covered for about £200 (comprehensive, protected 9 year NCD, commuting as well, 15,000 miles per year)

The SECOND one the thieves want £700 per year - sorry sir you are using your NCD on the first one. But hardly any discount for the fact that I am now only doing 7,500 miles per year in each. However I can usually get a "NCD match" tobring it back to a further £200.

So on the above basis, if I do 15000 miles per year on ONE car it costs £200 but if I do the SAME miles spread between TWO cars it costs twice as much.

It can't be because of the likelihood of theft, who's going to nick a 20 year old Volvo? The premium really covers the risk of claims by others against me and the risk of needing repairs to my vehicles. But those are exactly the same if I do the miles in one car or spread over two.

Now the THIRD car - no way to get an NCD match, but this year I got the oldest on a classic cover also for £200-ish. If not for that, it woul dhave been £700.

That would have meant that doing 15000 miles a year in one car would cost £200, doing it spread over two £400 and doing it spread over three £1100.

Bastard thieves. I bet they vote conservative.