BS: Restaurant Fraud

Subject: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 01:59 PM

One of the guys I worked with took his family to an Indian Restaurant here in Portland, ME. His debit card was charged three times for the meal and to add insult to injury someone also charged a roundtrip ticket to Bombay, India along with some other items. How do you avoid crap like this besides carrying lots of cash?

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 02:03 PM

Call the card issue-er and contest the bill. Don't just hand over the card to the server. Follow your card to the machine and watch what they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Peace
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 02:05 PM

Gives new meaning to the term "take-out".

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 02:09 PM

Sorcha - do you actually do that? I never have before.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 02:22 PM

I've never heard of this kind of thing happening. Being charged twice could possibly be an accident, but three times? And the other charges are outright theft.

I trust you've reported this to the local police. Contacting your credit-card company will get you off the hook, but you really should also do your part towards locking these people up and preventing them from continuing. I'm sure that other restaurateurs would be anxious to nip this kind of activity in the bud, and that law-abiding Indian-Americans would want to protect their image and disavow these criminals as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 02:36 PM

This used to be common with gas stations when they manually ran the charge with your card to get an imprint. My friend has involved the police, warned the card company. Since it is a debit card the money was deducted from his bank account. The airfare has been credited back because the ticket wasn't used and has been flagged. The other stuff requires an investigation. A mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:00 PM

Poppagator gives the right advice. Try and get the crook nailed.

Also, Did you complain at the restaurant? A crooked employee is often the cause, and the owners may not know about him/her. Here in calgary, help is in short supply, and it is easy for crooks to insert themselves into an enterprise.

(Half of the 'homeless' here have jobs; they can't afford housing prices).

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:31 PM

Our cards were 'compromised' a while back. We had to get new cards, new numbers, new pins, the works, and notify merchants with permanent withdrawal rights of our new numbers.

A little machine is used by professionals, it duplicates the entry at the store digital entry. In one case reported here, the store owner wasn't aware of the 'bug' or whatever you call it, which had been placed below the machine and terminals.

"Following your card to the register" doesn't prevent sophisticated schemes, there is no 100% was to protect your credit numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:46 PM

Never let the waiter or waitress take your card to the till, it's usually in those few minutes that they've swiped it into a nifty little pocket sized machine that copies the data on it, to enable them to make a clone. This movement can be disguised as wiping it in an apron 'so it swipes better'.

Always take your card to the till and always check the amount before you sign or put your pin number in. Put bold lines across the empty boxes if it's a paper receipt. Don't leave your copy of the receipt in the restaurant, take it home and file it or destroy it.

As Q says, it's impossible to protect your card 100% but you can take precautions.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 03:58 PM

I suspect that whoever did this expected to make it out of the country before he was detected. The flight is for tonight. Everyone who needed to be notified including the police have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 04:13 PM

Another alternative is to buy a prepaid debit card and use it only. They will not be able to charge above whatever you paid for it to reflect. I use a separate account debit card for all of our online purchases and keep just enough in there to pay for those charges.

And, I check our online bank balances every day. When double charges do show up, they have always been mistakes and caught by our bank's fraud dept. They get really serious about it, too. I've had them flag purchases I've made because they raised a flag for whatever reason, then they've called me to make sure it was something I did myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 08:18 PM

You're better off using a low balance credit card online instead of a debit card. The protections are a bit stronger. (I think that's because they were put in place before debit cards became so prominent and banks got so good and playing games with the rules and the current administration's "regulators" regarding debit cards.)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 09:07 PM

What a pain!

Doesn't matter if you follow them. YOUR copy of the reciept has ***9877 or whatever, but the copy THEY keep for their reconciliation has your number on it; trust me on this.


Twice I've had my cards 'compromised', both times bank was great about crediting immediately. One was a big shock ('borrowed' by our best-ever babysitter), other never resolved whence/how. It still bugs me.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Greg B
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 09:10 PM

Ohforgodssake. Just give 'em the card and let the chips fall where they
may. CC companies (especially AMEX) are great about taking care of this
stuff pronto. That's why they make the big bucks, and part of what
they do for them. I've yet to find anyone who got 'stuck' for charges
in the end; just a bit of hassle, or not, in the immediate aftermath.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 10:25 PM

Oops, I meant to say prepaid credit card.

Oh, and SRS, low credit card thingie doesn't always work because the credit card companies will approve beyond the limit, then hit you with interest charges and over-limit charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 10:52 PM

As Greg B says, you are covered by the major card companies and/or your bank- it is the nuisance of getting new cards and remembering to post new numbers to those with permanent withdrawal rights, etc. that causes one to gnash one's teeth.

I really like that one-click order that some companies have now. Nothing to type in, just click and Bob's your uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:44 AM

AMEX may be great at taking care of stuff quickly, but not everyone has an account with AMEX.

I still have a bad credit rating because I had problems with my credit card - and they were caused by the bank itself. It was in the days when I paid my credit card off by cheque. The cheques were cashed, money taken from my ordinary account as directed but it was never paid into my credit card account as it should have been. Thus I got stung for non-payment. Everything was paid off eventually but despite proving that the money vanished after the cheques were cashed and that all the details on the paying in slips were correct. The only way the money could disappear that way, was if a cashier was crediting a third account. The bank never admitted fault and never apologised. The payments vanished from my account, were never recovered and never credited to either account. Consequently, I changed banks and I don't have credit cards anymore.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: kendall
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 07:48 AM

I see a debit card as a license to steal. I have a 12 foot pole here to touch things that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole,like debit cards.
Some years ago I had my number stolen at a gas station on the interstate in New Jersey. When a $500 computer turned up on my statement, I raised hell and it was deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:27 AM

Banks, through the use of plastic cards, are in effect printing their own money. They then rob honest folks by charging exorbitant interest and service charges on this money of their own creation. Think about it! If I tried this I would be in jail for a long time!

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:35 AM

Not on a debit card Sandy. You simply use the cash in your account. An alternative to carrying cash, free unless you overdraw your account.

I carry a balance on one credit card - it is at 4.99%. Lower than my mortgage although that interest is deductible. Credit cards are great if you use them properly. Too many people forget that they have to eventually pay off the balance. And yes - some banks take advantage of this "Instant Gratificatio" need and lead people into serious debt.

Watch and see how they try to get this $600/1200 refund before it is even mailed.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:53 AM

annual 91% interest loans used to be a racketeering crime in the 80's.

Now the banking industry wrote and paid for new laws to make 91% loans not only legal but enforcable with the full extent of police power to repo everything a person has with the current exception of children.

PBS has some great documentaries on this subject. The Federal watch dogs for credit card predatory practices is really the banks lap dog

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Grab
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 09:39 AM

Credit cards are the way to go for that...

On debit cards, the money goes straight out of your account to the payee, so it's harder to get your money back.

On credit cards, the *credit card company* pays the payee. They then want you to recompense them. If you contest what the payee charged or if you have a dispute over what you received, you tell the credit card company and *they* foot the bill. That way you're protected. Incidentally, Amex might work in the States but many/most shops in the UK don't accept it because Amex charge too much - you need Mastercard or Visa if you're travelling in the UK and Europe.

As regards interest on credit cards, you only pay interest if you can't make the repayments each month. If you don't pay it back, you pay interest.

I often wonder whether all those people running up vast card bills believe the Tooth Fairy will magically bring them more money. If the issue was getting into debt for essential food and rent then I would have some sympathy, but most of them are spending the money on clothes and other luxuries, and I have zero sympathy for that.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:31 AM

I use a credit card with a few thousand dollars limit for online purchases. Lower than my household credit limit on my "regular" card. When the bank offers to raise the limit I decline. I can tell what is what on each bill. They're paid off monthly, mostly.

If you have the discipline to pay off every month and you charge your monthly online bills to a credit card you can get a lot of points. But you have to pay it off every month or you're sunk for the interest and the points are rendered meaningless, you're buying them at top dollar with the interest.

My sister were out for lunch one day a few years ago and she made a point about those restaurant receipts I adopted immediately. You'll note that there are only four digits after asterisks on your copy but all 16 on theirs. They've already run the charge through so they don't need your number on their copy of the receipt. She carefully and completely scribbles over the number on the receipt that they keep when paying a bill in a restaurant. No one has yet protested or refused to keep that copy.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:33 AM

Yeah, I notice that Grab.... all these people who claim they are on benefits and are poor, don't have enough money to pay for food but do have enough to buy a huge plasma TV, Playstations and Nintendo for their various offspring.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Restaurant Fraud
From: GUEST,endoman
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:43 AM

We took my son, his wife and child to a restaurant of his choice on a Saturday nite. I asked for the check, which appeared abnormally high for 4 adults at about $12 a head.

I quietly told the waiter to go back and check. The hostess arrived and told me it was correct.

In a normal loud vice I protested the error of about $50 and insisted that they manually add up my tab.

I eventually got an apology, and charged the corrected amount.

Before charging ADD the bill and calculate an approximate total before asking.