BS: New reason to vote for Obama

Subject: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:38 PM

So I'm sitting in the diner at lunchtime yesterday, and couldn't help eavesdropping on the two sixty-ish white guys in work clothes perched on stools at the counter, talking politics.

I hear them badmouthing Hilary as "not strong enough" to "send in the troops" when necessary, like Bush(!), so of course I immediately dismissed them as a couple of ignorant right-wing Limbaugh-loving dittoheads. And as the conversation progressed, nothing they said ~ for a while ~ gave me any reason to reassess their political position(s).

Then the one guy tells the other, "you know, I think I going to vote for Obama ~ because he's a smoker. I don't think any of the other candidiates smoke. I saw him waiting beside a stage while he was being introduced, and he was sneaking a few drags ~ a regular guy. The one I really hate the most is Huckaby. He's some kind of born-again health nut: no drinking, no smoking, nothing."

His buddy didn't declare who he'd vote for, but he sort of nodded and agreed and had only nice things to say about Obama. These were southern white men who hated the Clintons (both of 'em), but they did not seem ready to vote Republican as they had in recent years. And they did not show any evidence of the kind of knee-jerk racism I would've expected from them based on some of their other comments as well as their general personalities and style, and which they undoubtedly would have shown just a few years ago. I found the whole thing extremely interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:43 PM

Well - my sister once said she was going to vote for a certain candidate because he had a better smile than his opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:49 PM

Sigh - I always seem to vote for a candidate only because he is not the other candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 04:54 PM

I often vote for the candidate who loses! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:04 PM

I haven't voted for a winner since the High School Student Council election of 1962. And then only because there was only one candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:15 PM

Good God. That is quite a story, Poppa Gator! ;-) Imagine voting for someone because he smokes. LOL! What a shame that Obama does not also drink heavily, cuss, and spit. Just think of all the votes he would get then from stupid old Republican men who have lost confidence in the Bush regime and its legacy...

Their suggestion that Hillary wouldn't be strong enough to "send in the troops" is even more laughable! It's an incredible assertion. My impression of Hillary is that she is fully capable of any such action, and that she would send in the troops with relish if she decided to. Women often show more resolve in such matters than men. The Argentinians made similarly facile assumptions about the supposed "weakness" of the UK in the 80's, as it was being led by a woman...Margaret Thatcher.

The idiots. Nobody could have been a more resolved or dangerous opponent in time of war than Margaret Thatcher.

And the same was true when the Spanish underestimated Elizabeth the First of England in the late 1500s. Women often make superb war leaders, because they defend their country and its interests just as they would defend their children, with utter tenacity.

I gather that the two guys you heard are suffering from the same blind spot that afflicted the macho leaders of the Argentine armed forces in the leadup to the Falklands/Malvinas conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:16 PM

Some months back—it might have been as long as a year ago—I saw a fairly lengthy TV interview with Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle. During the interview, Obama admitted that he had smoked for about three years, but that he'd quit. He looked a bit sheepish when he said it, because Michelle was giving him the fish-eye. She piped up and said that he had "officially quit," but still tries to tries to sneak a smoke from time to time. She's really on his case about it.

Then Obama admitted that she was on his case about a lot of things. I can't recall too many specifics about this part of the interview, but I got to really liking Michelle. She's not shy about expressing herself, and she has some pretty firm ideas about what's right and what's wrong. She's a one-woman ethics committee. If Obama becomes president, having Michelle bird-dogging him will be one of his genuine assets—and an asset to the country.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:23 PM

Ya Don, I feel the same way about Hillary being bird-dogged by Bill.

"Hill honey, ya gotta stop sneaking off & smoking them cigars, even a few puffs is unhealthy."

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:28 PM

I saw that! You put that out! NOW!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:28 PM

Oh yeah, I almost forgot: The guy who said he'd vote for Obama also said something to the effect: "He even talked about trying to quit smoking, how hard he tried and couldn't do it."

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Alice
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:34 PM

On NPR radio this morning, an interview of one of his elderly cousins in Kansas. She heard him talking on the news about his grandmother in Kansas, and realized they are related!
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18532846

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:36 PM

I can sure sympathize with Michelle Obama on this one... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:37 PM

Bad campaign slogans...


Vote for Obama He is the opposite of Hitler.

Hitler was a vegetarian and did not smoke.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 05:41 PM

Perhaps a candidate could be found who is a hermaphrodite as well as being an indistinguishable combination of ALL known races.

This way you could vote for them (or not) without referencing to either their race OR their gender, thus no one could accuse you of showing prejudice no matter WHAT you did! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 06:26 PM

I like what Obama said once when asked, ala Bill Clinton, if he had inhaled. He answered, Of course. That was the point.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 06:42 PM

Well, one thing about alot of Southern white men is they like their tobacco products so even if Obama has kicked the habit, just knowin' that Obama smokes/smoked gets him points...

But, to be very honest, Obama has the unassuming personality that Southern white men like in black men... I live in the South and know many black men who have this quality and they win over their white counterparts very quickly... Call it good ol' boy, if you like, but Obama has some "good ol' boy" in him... He doesn't threaten Southern white men like an Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson... Yeah, I fully expect to get the "blast" for making these observations but, hey???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 06:57 PM

I think that's a very good point, Bobert. I find the Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson approach frankly...pretty irritating. I prefer people who do not constantly play upon the fact of whatever the heck race they happen to belong to (as if it mattered!)...but people who just act like a human being, period. And that's what Obama does. He doesn't come across like a self-conscious representative of some victimized racial group with a chip on his shoulder...he acts like an intelligent, articulate, and clear-thinking human being who speaks with and for all people. It's one of the things I like best about him.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 07:07 PM

What was he smoking?

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 12:47 PM

yeah I tried it but I didnt exhale.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 12:49 PM

There are some fu#ked up priorites in election years, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:02 PM

Lemme see,

The US has had presidents who get their tweeters blown in the oval office, talk to portraits of past presidents, plot how to circumvent the constitution, plan assassinations, make deals with milti-national interests and NOW, there's the possibilty it will have a president who smokes. Where will it end?

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:28 PM

Well, Obama would hardly be the first smoking President. FDR wouldn't allow himself to be photographed in his wheelchair or on crutches, but in most of his photos, we see him with that trademark cigarette holder clamped in his jaws.

I can't think of any such blatant tobacco use among more recent Presidents. JFK would occasionally be seen smoking a cigar, and then there's Bll Clinton's other (alleged) use of cigars. Some of the other post-WWII chief execs may have been off-camera smokers, but I can't remember any of them appearing in public sucking on a cigarette.

Earlier than FDR, smoking was pretty common and completely uncontroversial, and I'm sure quite a few Presidents indulged without it ever being an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 01:31 PM

I hear you. Election times have always been really strange.

It was neat to see that people somewhere are not all caught up in the hype. Neat story, PG.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 03:13 PM

On second thought, I think I can recall images (still photos and/or film/video) of Eisenhower smoking cigarettes. But I can only seem to picture him doing so in uniform, during the war, not necessarily as President.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 03:42 PM

When it comes to the more primitive urges, a man who is President of the United States would be, ipso facto, regarded as an Alpha male, and female primates tend to gravitate toward Alpha males. When a normal male, Alpha or otherwise, has sweet young things frequently throwing themselves at his feet (or other portions of his anatomy), it can constitute a bit of a temptation. There are "political groupies" as well as various other kinds. Ever since George Washington (often referred to as "the father of his country" for, reputedly, more reasons than one), such things as extramarital hanky-panky was the norm rather than the exception with these guys. But as long as the office-holder was doing a halfway decent job otherwise, whether right or wrong, people tended to look the other way.

And then the Conservative Character-Assassination Squad decided to make it an issue with Bill Clinton. Since then, not only are a candidate's minor peccadilloes, such as smoking an occasional cigarette or cigar, or perhaps having a martini at the end of a harrowing day, become matters for banner headlines, but any goofy thing he might have done as a prepubescent is dredged up and made a campaign issue as well.

I used to smoke. Like a chimney! As did almost everyone I knew (regular tobacco cigarettes, by the way, lest anyone misinterpret), and I'd say if Obama lights up the occasional cigarette, as long as he doesn't do it in my living room, then it's strictly a matter between he and Michelle.

Some of the nastier conservative character assassins have tried to claim that Hillary is guilty of murder because an acquaintance of hers committed suicide, but they couldn't make any connection between anything Hillary did and that unfortunate act. And they have also claimed she bilked a lot of people in a bogus real estate deal, but investigation turned out that she and Bill got bilked themselves, out of a $60,000 investment of their own money. They've also hooted that, as far as Bill's indiscretions were concerned, Hillary was an "enabler" (whatever the hell that means). Fact is, when Bill finally fessed up about his dalliance with Monica, she kicked him out of the bedroom, dumped a heavy guilt-trip on him, and generally kept him in the doghouse until he got the idea that she was deeply hurt and offended, and that if their marriage was to continue, she wasn't going to tolerate anything like that in the future.

So, unless you can stand the heat, I'd say if you're unable to walk on water, and if you sometimes picked your nose when you were three years old, you'd better stay out of politics. Somebody's going to try to make an issue of it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Peace
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 03:44 PM

Good remarks, Don, as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 03:50 PM

You're absolutely right, Don.

The unfortunate conclusion I have come to is that, with all the crap associated with running for President ~ let alone the even closer scrutiny that comes after you're sworn in ~ anyone crazy enough to want the job is ipso facto unqualified to perform it.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:12 AM

http://mail.moment.net/~michael/Hitlary08.GIF

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 10:08 AM

GG, with all due respect (amount to be determined) that is a really dumb link.


A

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 11:16 AM

Excellent points, Don. Yes, the political arena has become so full of nitpicking attacks on people's personal character and morality that it has been rendered virtually unworkable. It was as if the whole process had been co-opted by the National Enquirer.

You have to wonder what sort of person would even contemplate running for president under such conditions. It would have to be either an egomaniac, an obessively ambitious type, or someone of absolutely unquenchable ideals and an unshakable sense of duty to the greater good.

The latter would be nice to see.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 12:41 PM

Well, in Bush's case it might be someone for whom "character" was a non-op criterion, a meaningless fiction held by little people.


A

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 12:58 PM

It is now illegal to smoke in ANY public area in Montgomery County MD.

Barak has a bit of an Edward R Murrow quality when you factor in smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Peace
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:05 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: GUEST,Guest - PM
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:12 AM

http://mail.moment.net/~michael/Hitlary08.GIF"

I have difficulty believing that this 'Guest,guest' is the same as the 'original' GUEST,GUEST. Perhaps someone could check that out? This one also revived a thread and posted in a manner that suggests strongly an interest in Nazism that borders fascination. I don't think the original GUEST,GUEST was like that.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:33 PM

Whatever happened to the rule that Guests had to use a consistent handle? Anyone can post as "GUEST,Guest," and all too often it's because the anonymous poster wants to post something that they'd too ashamed to post under their own name, or at least under a consistent handle.

That link that "GUEST,Guest" posted is an example of the worst kind of politicking. I tend to think that "GUEST,Guest" is the same "GUEST,Guest" who started a thread trying to talk people into wasting their votes by voting for Ralph Nader again.

If you are a liberal or progressive, you might not like the candidates that the Democratic Party is offering, but blowing your vote on a candidate who has absolutely no chance is a pretty hollow gesture, no matter how smug it may make you feel.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:34 PM

From a correspondent in a big high-tech company:

"I sent him the New Yorker article about Barak Obama. He came back after reading it, really sobered. He was already a Barak supporter, but now is absolutely convinced that electing him might be a risk, but it's a risk we have to take. He might be one of the great presidents in American history.

So there's another vote Barak doesn't have to worry about."

A

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:38 PM

I'm disappointed that you would feel that way, Don. Are you suggesting that a write-in vote for William Shatner would be "wasted"???!

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:42 PM

Gee, Amos, I subscribe to the New Yorker, usually read most of it, but must have missed that "really sobering" article about Obama, and can't guess what "risk" might be under discussion.

Maybe I scanned through the article and missed something important.

I always page through the New Yorker quickly first, to check out all the cartoons, always read the one short-story in each issue, and try to digest most if not all of the nonfiction stuff. I can't imagine skipping over anything about Obama, but if it was the one really long piece they usually include in each issue, I might not have read it it all the way to the end.

Care to summarize, or provide a link?

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Amos
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 01:58 PM

Sure! The New Yorker piece is here for your convenience. Enjoy.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_fact_macfarquhar


A

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:15 PM

Shatner? I dunno, Little Hawk. I think we've already got too many Dennie Crane types hanging out in the White House.

Don Firth

P. S. But being a bit bereft of hair myself (what one might call an unusually wide part), I do admire his ability to train a hamster to sit quietly on his head and imitate a toupee.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM

You have to sedate the hamster. Heavily.

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:25 PM

Poppagator, this is the worst reason I ever heard for endorsing a candidate. Putting tobacco in your system does not make a real person out of anyone. It's a stupid idea.

In fact, where I stand, it could be a reason not to vote for Obama but I think the bigger reason is that he evoked the spectre of Ronald Reagan.

I want a healthy president, not one who is going to get emphysema or kick-off at an early age. That is a real person in my estimation. Huckabee is a Christian nut and non-smoking has nothing to do with his peculiarities. There are plenty of non-believing non-smokers like me around.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: New reason to vote for Obama
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 02:40 PM

Frank,

I certainly didn't mean to present this as a good reason to vote for anyone ~ just an interesting one.

Amos,

Thanks for the link. As I suspected, the probable reason for my not having already read the article is its extended length ~ 11 computer-screens' worth! I can't sneak-read that much here at work, but will look into it later at home...