BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:45 AM

Grim??

I am merely siding with a Native American philosophy toward mother Earth instead of the imperial white man's notion of total war and exploitation.

I'm smart enough, crazy enough and dog gonnit, Amos likes me.
'Sewart Biggie'

PS

There is something good about the shockingly grim, it puts things in perspective...usually for the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:22 AM

Beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 08:25 PM

Here's another reason he loves 'em.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 07:36 PM

Ach, I do not think you'll find it is all as grim as that Donuel. But there is one twist. The synchronized co-operation you describe IS the survival of the fittest, since the fittest by nature are alert tp the benefits of cooperative production. Look at all the parasites we support, after all. Not to mention the dogs,, cats, and horses we keep alive.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 06:18 PM

Someone needs to write a book similar to the Origin Of the Species BUT address the evolution of co mingling synergistic life forms through time.

Different species that rely on each other to survive is a fascinating subject of mutually beneficial give and take. A lesson more valuable than survival of the fittest in my opinion.

The book could start with the internalization of the mighty microbial Mitochondria into ever larger and more comples living cells until eventually they are encoded into the organism's DNA itself. (I may be looking at this process from the wrong side of the looking glass but it is a good place to start none the less)

The Ant colony is an excellent example of co operation and animal husbandry and agriculture with the deliberate growing of edible fungus and milking of aphids for their sweet happy juice.

A stark contrast will occur when we finally reach modern man...

All parasite and no synergy makes Earth a bad place to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 08:47 AM

I think Guest Wordy has had the final say.

For men over 50, anyhow.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM

LOL!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 02:14 PM

Okay, if the parasitic wasp still leaves you believing in some supernatural force and its intelligent design, I offer
THE PROSTATE
and rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:26 PM

Lawdamrrzy!!

Thank you for the explanation.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:24 PM

Don't forget, wordy, parasitic wasps love their work! ;-)

Then too, we have lampreys, mosquitos, and all other sorts of nasty things like that...but nastiness is in the eye of the beholder.

Just think how nasty WE humans must seem to a wretched, suffering lineup of pigs or cows who are on "death row" in the local slaughterhouse, mere minutes away from dying a horrible and lonely death so that you and I can fill our stomachs.

It's all relative.

Taoism teaches that nothing is good or bad in itself, but that all such supposed values are transitory judgements taken from a particular perspective. There are several interesting Taoist parables to illustrate the point.

You know yourself, it's great fun to win a well-played chess game...but not nearly so much fun to lose it. Yet, what does it really matter in the end? It's a transitory judgement. It's totally subjective.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:20 PM

When I was born, my parents gave me a three-syllable name, and my sisters were 5, 6 and 7. I was almost Missy. But Mrrzy stuck, luckily! It's pronounced like the river.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:11 PM

There is a ceilidh Band with the name of Twm Twp.

Mind you they are partly Welsh and a little bit Breton so maybe they should be a Twmpath Band.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 10:50 AM

Interesting -- you have had the handle for some time then! How did you come by a name without vowels? I believe they are quite rare, even in the colonies?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM

Oh, frogprince, you remind me of a great friend of mine, now long-dead of AIDS. (thread creep alert!) Back when I was a teenager in Africa, this friend, who was an inordinate punster, once went through a loooooong, shaggy dog story about how I was making tea out of koala bears but had left the fur in and it was undrinkable, because (wait for it)
The Koala Tea Of Mrrzy Is Not Strained.
Unfortunately, being an adolescent in French West Africa meant I had never read Shakespeare, and I didn't get it at all. He was so mad! One of my favorite memories of this guy. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 09:22 AM

State Religions are a trememdous burden on God.
Iran and Saudi Arabia are already a drain.

Now when the US goes totaly Evangelistic Republican there will be even more problems.
Jesus would be waay too liberal to be appointed to anything in the Goverment, Moses is too Jewish but Levidicus is ideal for Attorney General.

Best to stay secular for now...or at least thats waht "God" just told St. Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Mr Yellow
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 07:56 AM

He don't luv me much. But then I do like to use his name instead of enacting my wroth physically.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 04:45 AM

Whenever I try to believe in a loving god etc I can't get past the fact that if it existed it created the parasitic wasp.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:33 AM

Oh, brill;;. FP

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 11:40 PM

"the quality of Mrrzy is not strained..."

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Rowan
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 06:55 PM

Brilliant, LH!!!!
But, even before Aw gee gosh golly, fellas (*giggles*)! I thought Mrrzy had had some existence, testing the physics of a Fall. Miltonic in calibre, I'm told.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 06:47 PM

Aw gee gosh golly, fellas (*giggles*)!

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 02:05 PM

I guess I knew that LH as I have encountered her a few times...but as God didn't seem to know her (in your lucid account of communication with same) I was joking.
I am sure Mrrzy is a lovely person as are most of the people from the 'Cat' I have met.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 01:45 PM

Yes, Ebbie, and I agree with you. They are very good.

GS- Mrrzy is a proudly self-declared atheist who posts a lot on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

LH Who's Mrrzy? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 01:00 PM

A segue here (So what's new?): Have you ever read the 'Conversations with God' books? I like them.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 12:39 PM

Yeah, Frank. ;-) Those Dick Cheney type gods are to be avoided at all costs! The Aztecs had some gods like that.

Regarding the female version of God in my story..."sexy"? Well, there's a degree of beauty and inner power that simply goes so far beyond "sexy" that all you can do in its presence is to be in a state of total awe...and you don't tend to think about sex at all when you're in that state.

(Not that I'm saying that extreme sexiness cannot also produce a state of awe under certain conditions...it can. But that's a different case altogether.)

Joan of Arc, for example, produced a state of profound awe in the French knights and soldiers who served under her command for one brief, incredible year. And she was considered beautiful. But they did not look upon her as a sex object...they would not have dared to. They looked upon her as the very embodiment and soul of France. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. This version of God in the parable is the very embodiment of the principle of Life itself, and of all that is holy about Life...seen in this case, in a female archetype. I think I prefer the female archetype when it comes to that, although either way would be fine.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 12:17 PM

George, nicely written story. She sounds pretty sexy to me. Wouldn't please some
fundamentalist church goers I know. Too pretty and smart. God is a real hottie.

I think She might not look like Hillary Clinton, but who knows? I hope she doesn't look
like Paris Hilton. Paris is a figment of the Media's imagination.

I like the main intent of the story and that is tolerance. As a non-believer I tolerate
many myths and as I've stated before, I find some of them admirable such as the "Sermon on the Mount".

But myths they remain and as Joe Campbell said eloquently, myths are not always a "lie".
They are stories dressed up to relate certain truths that may help society.   Sometimes.

Unfortunately, some gods appear as Darth Vador or Dick Cheney. You don't want
to go hunting with those gods.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 12:03 PM

Thanks, Amos. ;-) It came, as these things sometimes do, in a moment of what seemed like real inspiration.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 11:25 AM

There are bad neighbours on both sides of that particular line! They both make life miserable for each other. The problem we are facing in our media, however, is that only one of them can label anyone who criticizes him as "anti-semitic", which has become, like "racist", a term which one can use to intimidate people into silence. Those on the other side of the line (the Muslims) have no such means of terrorizing and silencing criticism of their actions in the western media. They don't have an equivalent "historical genocide" card of similar weight to wield...at least, not outside their own community. Within it? Yes. But not in North American and western media.

I think was Stilly's point. Past and present sufferings of one's own community do not serve as a blanket justification for one's own bad behaviour towards other communities.

This is something that both Israelis and Muslims must come to terms with if they are to end the cycle of strike and counterstrike, revenge and retribution.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 11:20 AM

LOL!! LH, that was one of the4 best things you've posted. I love it.


Or I would, if Little Hawk existed...



A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 08:07 AM

SRS: if you complain about the lousy behavior if Israel, does that make you anti-semitic? I say no, but as long as they can justify being bad neighbors by making critics back down with that offensive line, they'll do it.

You have a good point. The opposing point is, if all my neighbors had sworn to kill me and my whole family, at the slightest opportunity, to glorify their god, I'd be a bad neighbor myself. I know not where the right of it lies.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 07:41 AM

Would it be appropriate to wish you a "Happy Darwin Day"?

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 12:54 AM

Hmmmm. Well, Rowan, here's a copy and paste of a PM I sent to Mrzzy awhile back, and she said at the time that it would be okay for me to post it on the open forum any time if I wanted to, so here it is...

It's a parable.

*********

I am so happy. Why? I just met God. No fooling. I was putting out some bottles in the recycle bin, the sky opened, and there She was!

Wow. Pretty awesome. Well, that's an understatement, for sure.

So we got into a discussion about the weather being so damn cold and I wondered if She could do something about that, but She said She had reasons for not tampering with its ongoing flow. Mysterious reasons. She would not elaborate on that.

"Anyway," She said, "don't worry, because it's going to warm up in awhile. It always does if you wait long enough."

"Yeah, I guess so." I said.

So then we got to talking about Mudcat Cafe, and I told God about all these contentious threads attacking the very concept OF God and saying "He" (as people normally put it) doesn't exist and stuff like that.

"They think of you as some strict old man with a beard and tablets or something...or else they think you're a complete myth."

"Yeah, I know about that," She said. "Don't worry about it. It doesn't matter. People have to work out all these things in their own way and in their own time. It isn't at all necessary or desirable that everyone should believe the same stuff all at the same time, in fact if they did it would become a very peculiar and sterile world. It would be the effective END of any useful developments and improvements in human evolution and social development."

"Okay, but don't you get kind of annoyed by having your existence attacked like that all the time? What about Mrrzy's threads about a Godless midwinter celebration, godless veterinary facilities, godless this and the other damn thing...doesn't it start to really piss you off after awhile?"

"Mrrzy doesn't exist," God said blandly. "And neither does the God she objects to so strenuously all the time, but you already knew that..."

"WHATTT????? What do you mean 'Mrrzy doesn't exist'????"

"Mrrzy doesn't exist. Period."

"Come on, you don't expect me to believe that, do you?", I responded heatedly. "I've seen her posts. I've had fights with her, and gross misunderstandings with her online, and we've even exchanged PMs on occasion. We've had moments when we could have happily wrung the other's neck, I imagine. How can you tell me she doesn't exist?"

"Nevertheless, Mrrzy doesn't exist," replied God, smiling at me calmly. "You have it here from the Highest Authority. She just doesn't. Trust me. She's a useful figment of your imagination."

Well, I don't want to go denying God, obviously. Not to Her face anyway.

"So what's the real explanation?" I asked.

"It could be," said God, "that Mrrzy is a mere outer appearance, a phantasm, a transitory and brief apparition on the field of space and time, a temporary and utterly perishable construction of atomic structures that flits like a shadow across a minor page of eternity, something that I sent to you (and to many others) for one of my mysterious purposes..."

"You're kidding!"

"Maybe I'm not..."

"What reason could you possibly have for doing such a confusing and irritating thing? A think that has, frankly, been somewhat of a thorn in my daily existence. What useful purpose would it serve?"

"Well," said God, shaking back her glorious head of hair which gleamed like fire in the descending starlight, "look at it this way: It could be a way of testing your tolerance of others, your patience, your sense of humor, your judgemental nature, your mastery of anger, your capacity to allow and forgive. It could be a way of teaching you through experience (and example) that a life lived in constant hostile reaction to what others do OR say OR believe, specially others who believe differently than you do about something, is a life that has barely yet begun to find the fullness of its own power, joy, and sovereignty. It could be a way of making you learn to let go...and let be...and let others be. And if so, then what would happen? Think about it."

"And furthermore, what if you were merely a figment of Mrrzy's imagination, and were serving much the same purpose for her as she did for you? The perfect counterpoint? Wouldn't that be an interesting combination? What could be accomplished by mastering the understanding of that and coming to terms with it?"

There wasn't much else to say after that. I put the stuff in the recycle bin, thanked God for visiting and wished her well, and went back inside, and poured myself a hot drink.

I don't think that God is anything like what most people imagine. And I don't know if I'm entirely ready to let go yet either, but I'm certainly giving it some consideration.

Cheers,

George

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 12:42 AM

Yeah, Los Angeles at rush hour is really, really close... ;-)

Maybe it rates as "the suburbs of Hell"?

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Rowan
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 12:41 AM

Of course I love you all.

But what's all this nonsense about "Him" and "He"?

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:38 PM

You pegged it, LH. Though a really close second is Los Angeles at afternoon rush hour.

Someone suggested that christianity takes the brunt of the hits at Mudcat when we discuss religion. But it is one of the big three religions that all bear examination--muslim, judaism, and christianity are so far removed from their roots, are so industrialized that they're all quite problematic. Part B of this discussion--if you complain about the lousy behavior if Israel, does that make you anti-semitic? I say no, but as long as they can justify being bad neighbors by making critics back down with that offensive line, they'll do it.

It is dangerous to lump all practitioners of a particular religion together and accuse them of bad behavior toward the rest of the world. I'd guess that most of the typical practitioners are okay people. It's the zealots who give the religions a bad name. And any of them that insist on proselytizing, on converting others (as a way to justify their own existence, one presumes), they are a huge problem.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 10:58 PM

You're a sick man, John. ;-)

I don't believe in Hell.

No wait...yes I do...Hell is Las Vegas. I've never been there, and I have no plans to go. I was in Elko, Nevada, and that was plenty close enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 08:07 PM

Sorry LH,

God told me to tell you he has you booked for a room in Hell. You are in room 668 between The Beast and Pat Robertson (who's in room 670).

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: GUEST,Bob "The Blankity-blank Atheist" Pacquin
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 08:04 PM

Old Bob may be getting a little bit nitpicky here, but Tsunamis, Earthquakes, etc wouldn't be so deadly if people had "used the sense that God gave them" when they build their houses in the first place. I suppose that's a whole other discussion, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 06:39 PM

Bravo!!! You are so right, Amos. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:31 PM

Brian the dog from "Family Guy". Brian and Peter travel back in time and meet 18 year old Lois. SIgh. IS it a blessing or a curse that we live in the Age of Google?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:02 PM

Or when they see something really shocking happen...like a very large building coming down unexpectedly.

My father, for instance, was an atheist, but he would loudly exclaim "Jesus!" or "My God!" when he was astonished or very impressed by something. No one took any offence over it except one of his business friends who was a born-again Christian.

My dad's only God was his own giant ego. ;-) Seriously. I think that's actually quite common, specially among businessmen.

Now...who can answer the question of who said this: "Can I wham my oingo-boingo into your velvet underground?"

And whom did he say it to?

You have 24 hours to come up with the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 10:10 AM

They only call out His name when they're enjoying sex.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 09:36 AM

There is a guy on ebay named daves-opals who always says

Keep GOD in America - Buy my opals!    in his ebay auctions.

It offends me and I am not even religious.
I guess it doesn't offend the religious since it is more of a metaphorical identifier than a literal connection.

but they so oftn insist upon a literal interpretation of the guud book.

Keep GOD in American - attack the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Stu
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 04:18 AM

"who says that man can't be blamed for Tsunamis, earthquakes etc. Man has so interfered with the balance of the earth with testing nuclear weapons...."

This is the consequence of tectonic plates shifting in subduction zones or along slip/strike faults, nothing to do with man's interference.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Micca
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 03:47 AM

This thread reminded me of something I read once (it may have been on a T shirt) " Sudden prayers make God jump"

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 03:17 AM

IF there was a god, he would love non believers, if

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 11:26 PM

Even atheists have been known to have 'religious' sex...

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Nickhere
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 10:39 PM

Gosh, for so many people who say they don't believe in God, they're very interested in Him, talk about Him a lot, and ascribe all kinds of things to Him. That's a first step..... ;-))

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 09:07 PM

No, if you believe this year's political campaign promises, that's when you'll believe anything. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 06:06 AM

....I know it maybe perhaps conspiracy theory but it was suggested in an e-mail I received after the Tsunami that a device had been detonated in the area just before the Tsunami reared its ugly head.

If you believe that, you'll believe anything!


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 04:10 AM

That;s because you are counting only part of the set. You can prove anything that way.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 04:06 AM

Doug...who says that man can't be blamed for Tsunamis, earthquakes etc. Man has so interfered with the balance of the earth with testing nuclear weapons....I know it maybe perhaps conspiracy theory but it was suggested in an e-mail I received after the Tsunami that a device had been detonated in the area just before the Tsunami reared its ugly head.
With regard to those things having been around since Biblical times..they are getting worse! Pestilence will get worse as we take away natural habitats of those creatures...which is happening ever more quickly.
As for the droughts, famines and plagues...what about applying Biblical principles and everyone who is capable coming to peoples aid instead of just those willing few...many of whom I might add come from "Religious groups"
Doug...you say that "The progress made by humankind has made the world a better place".
We fight wars with more sophisticated weapons and some of mass destruction. In the UK we are now seeing a gun and knife culture, particularly amongst the disrespecting teenage generation of the day and crime on the increase with less officers to keep law and order.
Terrorism as a means of 'achieving' has increased dramatically and nasty incidents such as 9/11 or maybe even worse are threatened.
Trees are disappearing at an alarming rate...the source of much of our oxygen and remover of carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
I guess I am a little sceptical of the world making progress for the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Neil D
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 02:06 AM

Because they can't claim to have found him in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: John O'L
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 09:58 PM

Again we hear the call for empirical proof of God's existance, and that if he was fair dinkum he would end all suffering.

Well I'm not sure that God exists, but if he does then it is apparent that what he wants is not a Truman Show. Therefore he will not reveal himself just because you require it of him. Neither will he end all suffering because some of his creations think it's just not fair.

I used to be a surfer. There was a joke that if you couldn't see any sharks then there weren't any there.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 09:30 PM

Name one good thing that God has given us that has not been corrupted by man!

I can name a few bad things that man can't be blamed for, hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, droughts, famine, plagues, pestilence and the like which destroy the homes and lives of both the believer and the non-believer, young and old alike. And before anyone mentions global warning, these things have been around since Biblical times.

On the other hand, I can think of plenty of things where man's intervention has improved on the basic design - medicine, transport, communications, social welfare for example. Life isn't all one way and we have to take the good with the bad but on balance I believe that the progress made by human kind has made the world a better place.



DC

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 08:41 PM

Oh, I see. Yes, I agree wholeheartedly about Buddhism. It's one of the best religions out there. I find that the Asian faiths, on the whole, are more mature in some respects than the three monotheistic faiths that came out of the Middle East...although they all have various strong points in their favour.

If one can combine the best of the East and the West, all the better.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 08:31 PM

LH:

I have studied all those, except Rasta, which is more of an experiential thing, if you get my drift, but I meant that I had not been immersed in a culture formed along those lines. The little time I spent in Thailand convinced me that Buddhism is a first-rate religion to grow a culture on.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:46 PM

Excellent point, Michael. I have often noted the same. I consider "God" to be a concept totally beyond the ownership or jurisdiction of any particular religion, and not tied exclusively to any of them. It baffles me that people always seem to assume a Christian connection when the subject comes up.

Taoism is the coolest, Amos, and it's almost guaranteed to appeal to anyone who is truly a free thinker if they would bother investigating it seriously, I think. It does not posit the notion of a human-like deity at all. Nor does it speak in terms of sin. Nor does it promise heavenly rewards or hellish punishments. The Tao is a universal process, a way of Being. Everything is part of the Tao. Everything moves within the Tao and either goes harmoniously with the flow...or resists it. Resistance results in friction and heat. It usually causes pain. Since everyone has free will, of course, they are free to resist all they want. That's up to them. The greater the resistance, the more the rumpus. ;-) Some people seem to enjoy that. It depends on individual temperament.

I suggest 2 books by Benjamin Hoff: "The Tao of Pooh" and "The Teh of Piglet". The titles may sound whimsical, but actually those are really good books which make Taoism crystal clear.

Taoism is gentle, humorous, and wise. It is a very fine path.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:30 PM

MIchael:

I would hazard a guess that the reason for most of us is that it is against the incursions of Christianity that most of us had to defend our powers of reason when young. In another land it might have been sharia and the Koran we were made to swallow. Buddhism tends to be much less affronting, since it offers abstract truisms not embedded in iconic pseudo-entities and thus allows you to explore the world with a relatively unbent eye. I have little or no exposure to other major religions suc as SHintoism, Taoism, Confucianism, or Rastafarianism.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Goose Gander
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:23 PM

Why is it that threads dealing with religion on this site almost always turn out to be merely discussions about Christianity?

What's the matter, no other faiths pique your interest?

It seems that a lot of you feel very comfortable making disparaging comments about that particular religion, comments you likely would not make about any other religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:22 PM

Your belief that all the good comes from God and all the corruption from Man is one of the most nefarious of the viral memes of Xianity, in my opinion. It completely undermines personal strength in an aspiring or seeking individual to buy into such a dichotomy.

The blessing are accidents of God's grace, but you bring the bad bits on yourself through your own imperfections. That is so cognitively twisting I cannot fathom why anyone would stand still for it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:11 PM

On the contrary Midchuck(IMO)....Man is prone to sin and has free will to do so...man messes up the world, creates diseases, affects the climate with his apathetic use of Gods provision, makes war on his brothers, plays around with life and death......etc etc.
Name one good thing that God has given us that has not been corrupted by man!
Nuclear power..wonderful...until used as a weapon...guns...great until turned on ones brother.....plants with healing properties..great until abused in drug making for addiction and profit. Procreation, great until abortion, Cars, wonderful until someone makes a mistake and lives are lost, I could go on............
You kinda blame God for the suffering.......I blame us, all of us! Some for making bad things happen and others for doing nothing to stop them.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Midchuck
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 04:15 PM

I don't know whether God exists or not.

But if He existed, were all-knowing, all-powerful, and loved us all, there would necessarily not be any human pain or suffering.

Either He doesn't exist, or He exists but has a mean, sadistic streak.

You choose.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 01:37 PM

Ick.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 12:47 PM

God worries about who's the boss of this place, too, you know, LH. All those seraphim battling for promotions, and the axis of Evil insinuating themselves into the Corridors of Divine power, and Earthlings trying to give him multiple personalities when he is really One -- it gets ridiculous, sometimes. You try it, if you don't believe me. But where can he go for a vacation that he isn't already Being? It's a rough job, I tell ya.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 12:37 PM

God loves dachshunds too! And they never give it a moment's thought. ;-) They are too busy looking around for food. They worry, but not about God. Mostly they worry about not finding enough to eat, issues of territoriality, who's "the boss of this place", and other such pressing problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 12:29 PM

God doesn't love me. I there was am all loving God we wouldn't have theodicy.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 12:17 PM

Ron:

I have never known you to be much given to puzzling paradoxical conundrums in your posts, before this one.

Your post was too short.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Ron Davies
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 11:47 AM

This thread is too short.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 11:33 AM

I agree with Joseph Cambell. Myths are important for teaching morals in society.
God and Jesus are myths. These myths can be useful at times. I like the myth about
"The Sermon on The Mount" because it's message is one of good will and peace.
Joe Campbell said that this makes Christianity a Pacifist religion. (He's sure to get some
argument about that!)

I call myself a non-believer. But even that label gets muddy at times. An "atheist" doesn't have to be an "anti-theist". "Agnostic" is a problem because it indicates ignorance. I know that gravity exists. I am not agnostic about that. If someone could prove that a god exists empirically I could accept it as true. But as this is not proven, I know that if I say that gravity doesn't exist, this is madness. But if I say that a god doesn't exist, is this crazy? It has not successfully been shown to me that a god does exist therefore why should I assume rationally that it/he/she does? This is not a decision based on ignorance but on scientific fact. So that takes care of agnosticism.

I think that if man and women love other men and women, this is more important than a god who is mythological loving someone. I believe this humanitarian love should be extended to animals as well.

I simply do not think it's at all important if a mythological god loves anything.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 11:22 AM

Daylia has introduced a beautiful neologism: asstheist (I modified the spelling). It means either:

1. One who believes that God is a ass, or foolish in some way.

2. One who does not believe in the existence of sex.

You choose.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 11:13 AM

"God is a project of projection-by-subscription for the purpose of shielding against personal ownership of one's own experience, responsibility, and/or viewpoints."


                     Yeah, isn't that what confession is all about. A man embezzles ten million dollars from his company and rapes his secretary on his way out. He goes to confession, confesses, and walks away rich, relieved, and absolved.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 10:01 AM

God loves atheists and non-believers for all the reasons above and also because they are free of limiting preconceptions. Truly an Open Book for His/Her/It's Moving Finger to Writ Upon. Just ask St Paul. (or, ask his horse if you don't trust saints).

Furthermore, God loves astheists and non-believers because ... well ... hmmmm, maybe I'll just let Neil explain it.

Nothing is perfect in God's Perfect Plan;
just look in the shadows and see.
He only gave us the *good things*¹ so we'd understand
What life without them would be

1. (includes atheists and non-believers    :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 09:37 AM

Proposition: every statement characterizing God's attitude is a confession (by the maker of it) to the attitude described.

Proposition: every accusation of another committing a sin against God is a confession of the same sin by the accuser. Corollary: every confession of sins against God is an accusation toward others in disguise.

Proposition: God is a project of projection-by-subscription for the purpose of shielding against personal ownership of one's own experience, responsibility, and/or viewpoints.

Discuss.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 09:25 AM

"Why God loves atheists and non-believers..."


             And the fact that he isn't there and doesn't exist makes for a totally effortless commitment.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:52 AM

There was a coupla tornadoes a few days ago...

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 06:05 AM

Now He has all that spare time, why does He not knock a bit of sense into American religious "christian" cultists? Send them some boils or something?

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 04:47 AM

God loves all His children, even those who don't know or recognise Him
Best wishes. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Padre
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 12:45 AM

God loves all His children, even those who don't love Him.

Padre

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 11:57 PM

Yes! More good reasons. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Amos
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 10:06 PM

And they keep the faithful very much on the qui vive, making it possible for him to take breaks.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: bankley
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 09:50 PM

they don't have to thank Him/Her at Award shows...

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: harpmolly
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 09:44 PM

Awesome, LH. :)

Tee hee...my dad saw that I'd put "Pantheist Agnostic" as my religious affiliation on facebook, and asked with trepidation if that was some sort of cult thing, having no idea what a pantheist was. When I explained it to him, his response was, more or less, "Hot damn! I think I'm one of them too!" :D

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Slag
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 09:38 PM

"Almost thou persuadest me to believe!" Chongo put you up to this, didn't he?

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Bert
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 09:01 PM

LOL! I love it.

And don't forget that also - he doesn't have to forgive us.

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: SussexCarole
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 08:56 PM

So..if that's the case..does 'G'od give a discount or a BOGOF deal to us non - believers?

Subject: RE: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 08:43 PM

Very good, LH!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: BS: Why God loves atheists and non-believers
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 08:41 PM

1. They don't bother Him/Her with prayers, requests, and entreaties all the time. A little peace and quiet now and then is much appreciated by the Allmighty!

2. They don't blame God for all those unfortunate happenings, like when a hurricane comes or when a tree falls on the family dog.

3. They don't complain to God about all the things going wrong in their lives. Oh, they complain, mind you....boy, do they ever complain! But not to God. They complain to their significant others and their relatives instead. ;-)

4. They don't ask God for advice when God would rather focus on something far more interesting than their petty little problems!

5. They don't try to enlist God's aid in their bloodthirsty national activities, like war. Instead they do it for all the good old-fashioned reasons, like greed, hatred, pride, profit, ambition, imperialism, zenophobia, and personal gain.

6. They don't pester God with a lot of undesired hero worship, Hosannas, and all that. It can get annoying after awhile. You want to just go off somewhere quiet and be completely anonymous for a change.

7. Last but not least...God loves everybody. Even Woody Allen. So why would God not love atheists? God is without prejudice. This is such a rare quality that it can fairly be said to be a divine one.

The fact that none of this even matters to an atheist is the icing on the cake, as it were. It's so perfect that God may even have planned it that way.