BS: Obama Swiftboated

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 03:01 PM

Disgraceful shit, from folks that pass themselves off as uber patriots. They show that they are really opportunistic whores that care little for the values they espouse so loudly. Their real agenda has nothing to do with those values, but more to do widening the gap between the richest and the rest. Shame on those who are so mentally lazy that they just fall back to their cliche'd biases and allow a man who served honorably to have his service besmirched.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 03:30 PM

Freightdog, you are keeping bad company.

Was it Al Gore?


"Conservative commentators have taken to repeating the mantra that Al Gore introduced Willie Horton, the inflammatory racial symbol who enlivened the 1988 presidential race, to political debate in America. On Oct. 24, William Kristol, editor and publisher of the Weekly Standard, said on ABC's This Week:

"Gore's a mean, tough political fighter. Gore is the one who introduced Willie Horton to American politics in the 1988 primary against Mike Dukakis."

************************
"Gore never mentioned that Horton was black; indeed, he never mentioned Horton by name. He merely drew attention, correctly, to the damaging fact that Dukakis had tolerated a furlough program for especially violent criminals in his state even after a horrific incident strongly suggested this was a bad policy."

*************************

"Now recall what the Republicans did with Horton's story: An "independent expenditure" group aired an ad for Bush showing a picture of Horton. A Republican fund-raising letter in Maryland showed pictures of Dukakis and Horton alongside the following text: "Is this your pro-family team for 1988?"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM

I don't think that the current sparring between the Clinton and Obama campaigns about possible speech plagerism will be enough to float a swiftboat, or waterboard a candidate (how's that for pulling it all together!).

Anyone taking bets on who will win in Wisconsin or Hawaii? The polling appears to be close in both races, between Clinton and Obama.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 05:34 PM

It's funny how memories change. Eight years ago, I think I would have said that Mr. Gore was slow to respond to the slanderous comments made by "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth" (many of whom never served in the Swifts, some of whom were never involved in riverine operations at all, and whose funding came from a person who never served in the military) because he really wasn't particularly emphasizing his military service and wasn't prepared to counter attacks on that topic. Oh well, memories and history evolve over time.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:04 PM

Couldn't agree more that Kerry deciding to go pro-gung ho and play down his anti-war history is what lost him the race--all because he did the same thing Al Gore did--ignore the Democratic party base to appeal to the corporate wing of the Democratic party, the Reagan Democrats (who supported Bush's Iraq follies) and McCain's independents (who also supported Bush's Iraq follies).

A huge miscalculation I have a sinking feeling the Democratic party is likely getting ready to repeat. And if the Dem nom can't beat the Repub this year, they don't deserve to rule the nation.

Of course, I said that in 2000 and 2004 too.

I agree about the voting for warrior presidents changing over time, but not significantly. It has been very subtle, if at all among a lot of the electorate that actually votes. For the WWII generation, it is still a huge deal. For the majority of baby boomers, it is still fairly significant, especially among those who supporetd the Iraq follies as vengeance for 9/11. And man, there were a LOT of those people who voted for Bush in 2004.

Finally, I don't know that the Dukakis loss was due to Willie Horton. I've always thought it was due to that photo that was worth a million bucks to the Republicans...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:40 PM

Dukaiis in a tank was more significant than Bush in a flight suit?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 07:50 PM

Absolutely. Bush looked very comfortable in his fly boy suit, because he had been one.

Dukakis looked like a MAJOR DORK. Also, the Bush swagger in the fly boy suit was done AFTER he was elected president, AFTER 9/11, and AFTER Baghdad fell, on his way to proclaim Mission Accomplished. Those pictures only helped his image and stature among the voting public.

Dukakis, not so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 10:35 PM

In the flight suit, GWB *had* a major dork.

Double entendre intended.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 10:39 PM

You used to be able to get a 12-inch action figure of Bush in that flight suit. Completely posable. Able to assume any position the human body can get into.

I predict that those things will be worth a small fortune on Ebay soon. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Big Mick
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:09 PM

I agree with Guest. Dukakis let the other side define him, and the picture in the tank really did a lot to seal the deal. Aside from the fact that he looked ridiculous, it was so apparent as to be ridiculous that he was pandering for votes.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Amos
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 11:21 PM

Well, the voting public that I talked to at the time sure didn't think those things awarded him any stature. As I recall the actual pilot was nearly crapping himself because his passenger seat was occupied by the President of the US AND a loose cannon, both at the same time. Mission Accomplished was sheer codswallop, and most people saw right throught he pretentiouness of it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:19 AM

Well, but it was a perfect occasion for some grand bloviation, wasn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Amos
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:37 AM

Gnashing of teeth and national mourning, more like.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,geminess
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:38 PM

This story seems to have been circulating for about a month. The MSm won't touch it. There is reason to believe that Ron Paul supporters (not the Paul camp) have made an orchestrated effort to sabatoge and swiftboat Obama, basically because of his race. I have viewed hundreds of comments from "supporters" of Sinclair on the You Tube site and noticed similar postings under different names..almost verbatim. www.dearmurray.com pretty much pegs it on the ron paul aspect.

It is well known that the Ron Paul camp has ties to white supremicists, and now their (pardon the pun)..."true colors" are showing. This is a poor man's attempt at swiftboating indeed. The only question I have is who is supplying Sinclair with the $10,000 to take the lie detector test and the $100,000 if he passes it? (See article in www.whitehouse.com...not affiliated with www.whitehouse.gov.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 02:59 PM

What a shame that the only Republican candidate who is honest about US foreign policy should have white supremacists among his supporters. Well, I guess you can't necessarily control what all your supporters happen to believe in, can you?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 04:42 PM

Frankly, I don't see anything in Paul personally, or anything that he's done or said, that would encourage those kinds of folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:08 AM

...the alacrity with which some people uncritically bought the line.

The real problems are those people that STILL buy the line, despite the conclusive proof to the contrary. There's a disgrcefully large number of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:34 AM

Back to Obama being swiftboated, this morning a lady called in on Washington Journal to announce that Muslim operatives have taken control of the elctronic voting machines, and they are in the process of getting Obama elected. In which case, he could simply surrender, and the US would be theirs.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 12:36 PM

LOL!!! And then what? God, the state of fantasy some people live in....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 12:39 PM

Yeah, the caller didn't project any long range plans of any kind, just the bloodless coup...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 12:44 PM

I can just see the new USA Islamic order trying to get all the Americans to get down on their knees 3 times a day and pray to Mecca....stop eating pork...put burkas on the women and cover their heads with scarves....change all the churches into mosques....replace all the Bibles with fresh new copies of the Koran...

LOL!!!!!!!!!! Talk about the world's most unlikely scenario. About as unlikely as the Southern Baptists taking over Saudi Arabia in a bloodless coup and putting Billy Graham in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 02:37 PM

Which is what Ann Coulter wanted Bush to do!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 02:52 PM

But if you tried to put a burka on Ann Coulter, it'd get all torn up on the sharp, bony angles.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 03:16 PM

But she'd look so much better that way!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:04 PM

Well, Muslim women are also supposed to hold their tongues. Can we get both?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:10 PM

LOL!!! Geez, you gotta tell that to some of the Muslim women I know in Ontario...a feisty and independent lot, and in general they can talk the paint off a post, given half the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:13 PM

Well, in Ann Coulter was going to hold her tongue, she'd have to hang on with both hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:42 PM

She'd probably get a bad case of epileptic seizures from trying, but I would enjoy watching the effort.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:04 PM

"This story seems to have been circulating for about a month."

Well, now the MSM is too busy chasing the McCain and that slut story.

Sounds like the Rove/Limbaugh wing of the Republican party is hard at work.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Cluin
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:11 PM

You'd have to be either crazy or incredibly stupid to want to be president.


Explains a lot, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:00 PM

Or tremendously ambitious (it runs in certain families). Or filled with a quixotic desire to "change things".

Someone's got to do it and certain people are born to take on those sorts of challenges.

I mean, look, you'd have to be crazy or stupid to be a prizefighter too, I think, but there's always someone out there who'll do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Amos
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:14 PM

It's an honorable thing, in some cases -- some people have a sens eof duty, some have a strong hope to make things different and better. Others just want power.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Cluin
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:16 PM

And some are masochistic.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:32 PM

I think that Richard Nixon would kind of fit that type.