BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment

Subject: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: GUEST,Voice Of Truth
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:56 PM

Eliot Spitzer, the self avowed defender of truth and justice, was initally nicknamed "Eliot Ness" when he first took office of Governor of New York State. As Attorney General he had a reputation, well earned it seemed at the time, of going after corrupt businesses and defending the common populace against exploitation by the higher powers. He has just admitted to being involved with a ring of prostitutes, call girls to the 'elite' who commanded approximately $5,000 an hour!!!! (It is hard to say which is more distressing, that the man who was supposed to clean up New York had to resort to this dirty little business, or that he was actually spending these outrageous sums!

This is not the first transgression or disappointment from the once super squeakly clean Spitzer. It seemed the minute he hit office, his more vindictive nature came to the fore, and more time was spent in preposterous suggestions and vicious attacks on his rivals than on doing anything for his citizens. This is the guy who was supposed to clean up Albany and balance the budget (by oft stringent proposals- many New Yorkers do not realize that there is a propoasal being floated right now to CUT OFF THE FUNDING for the SENIOR CENTERS that give MEALS to SENIORS and close the centers, these centers were created as a haven for seniors on a fixed income when it was discovered in the 70's many older citizens were eating cat food , which is all they could afford on their spartan budget.)

As I have said, it is only the test of time that can really reveal a person's character. It is an abysmal disappointment to many that Spitzer has, in one scant year, revealed himself at best to be a hypocritical clunker,and at worst, a scoundrel.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM

He was happily willing to throw law and order out the window when he wanted to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:08 PM

Which proves a historical truism---never trust the zealots. ALways holier than thou while they stand on their clay feet. He now joins the ranks of the likes of J Edgar Hoover and all those pious religious figures in all faiths who break their own faith's codes of conduct many times.

One bright thing though---Spitzer really wears nice suits.   Hoover's dresses were really tacky.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: irishenglish
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:14 PM

What a shame, I had such high hopes for him. Worst thing you could say about Corzine is that he didn't wear a seatbelt. I fear this may only be the beginning of some nasty stuff to come out.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: John O'L
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:39 PM

$5,000 an hour? I can't even begin to imagine what a girl must be able to do to command that kind of fee. New York, New York, eh? So good they named it twice.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:49 PM

What? A governor hired a prostitute? ... Is anybody as unshocked by this as I am?

Okay, I don't follow NY State politics too closely - what am I missing here?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:07 PM

I agree, the whole thing sounds really stupid. If it had been anyone but Spitzer it wouldn't be news at all.

             The first thing I saw about it was, he was involved in a "prostitution ring," like he was engaged in selling the women. I guess that's the only way they could get you to read the rest of the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM

What scandal? The human species is not monogamous, men are programmed to seek out females and have sex with them. Prostitution is a legal business in more civilized countries.

Calgary is only a little larger than 1 million, but the adds offering sex or dominatrix services in the Yellow Pages of the telephone book still take up 7 1/2 pages.

I was amused in Amsterdam by the older couples wandering through the district, joking about the girls. Too old too soon! The city sets the price, except for the high class call girls, who often have regular patrons. In Kiel, city-owned apartment blocks are provided for the girls. The profession should be legal everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:16 PM

Back to Zealots---let us never forget Mayor Giuliani. Holier than thou as he alienated his many families and children.

         Ah--such a list of wonderful people the Broom that will sweep Albany Clean joins---The Bakkers (Spelling?) of Evangelical fame--Jimmy Swaggert-- Mayor James of Newark (awaiting decision on that one)--and many more on this prestigious list. What think you of Torquemada---think he philandered while pillorying so many.

       Frankly---who really cares except for the fact that Spitzer made such a big deal of his "straight-arrowness". Just like Giuliani he hounded people to prison and then showed his own moral failings.

       Perhaps some expert on philosophy can answer the question---why if you are such a preacher of moral values do you disobey your own teaching? Why do you not either live up to your own image---or just shut up?   I know not. Can anyone communicate with Plato or Aristotle to, perhaps, come up with the answer.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:22 PM

Shock Horror!

A man using prostitutes, and a politician into the bargain!

Who would ever have believed it.

As said above, anywhere else on earth other than the wildly hypocritical & faux-morality ridden Greatest Country On Earth, no-one would notice & this wouldn't be "news".

The real tragedy here is that this idiotic news frenzy may derail a lot of the good the man was trying to do to help New York State recover from a decade of Republican (mis)rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:10 PM

Sounds as if he could have helped balance expenditure patterns, with a little more care. Cutting "Senior centres" sounds like good old American capitalism in action. But I regret to say that buying a fuck would probably finish him as a politician in the UK too.

This does NOT mean that I deny that prostitutes are usually victims of circumstance, and usually not able to exercise free choice. But this sounds more like Xaviera Hollander territory.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:13 PM

There is no doubt in my mind that if it were Eliot Spitzer (R), Governor of New York, several of you, and some of those yet to post, would be demanding his immediate resignation or impeachment. But being (D) makes it bad, but not so bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:17 PM

If the lady concerned had been an intern rather than a professional would that have been better or worse?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: meself
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:36 PM

And if you can't drop a few grand on a hooker now and then, what exactly is the point of becoming filthy, stinking rich?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:45 PM

Only a few grand? Piker!

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:47 PM

The reason hotshots pay a premium price for commercial sex is that they're also buying discretion. That $5,000 breaks down to $500 for the actual sex and $4500 for the tacit understanding that the hooker will keep her mouth shut. Anyone can find commercial sex for a "reasonable" price, but if a $200 per hour whore recognizes some famous guy, she'll get way more than $200 from the tabloid press for the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:52 PM

Hubris? Arrogance? Stupidity? All of the above?

I, too, think prostitution should be legal -- to give sex workers better working conditions and keep crime and abusers out of the system.

I just can't stand hypocracy -- no matter what the party or religious affiliation.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: John O'L
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:05 PM

Such a topsy-turvy world. There's me thinking a prostitute was paid to open her mouth, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:17 PM

Stupid, hypocritical Democrats deserve to be embarrassed just like Republicans. He will get HIS time in Jay Leno's jokes....just like Bill Clinton has had for 6 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:25 PM

I am not an attorney but I have to question how bright SPitzer is. Forget all that hypocrisy, arrogance, and zealotry and ask why a prostitute flew from NY to DC (across state lines) instead of visiting a local call girl. Not being an attorney, as said, does that not put the sanctimonious governer in jeopardy under the Mann Act.

He probably was only doing his bit for NY by not outsourcing the work to DC hookers. He truly represents his home state. What a guy!

Bill Hahn

Subject: Lyr Add: THE ELIOT SPITZER TALKING BLUES
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:30 PM

This is too good NOT to post here, also (it's on another thread). Written by Mudcatters Stewart and Deckman, here it is, hot off the press:



The Eliot Spitzer Talking Blues
collaboration by Stewart and Deckman

If you want to get in trouble,
Let me tell you how to do it,
Just become a politician,
Then you're soon to be into it.

Don't run on a plank that's squeaky and clean,
If you can't stay away from a downtown queen,
'Cause people come a-lookin' ..
Causing trouble ... bastards all!
'Cause sooner or later
You'll take that fall
Down on your ass
Without any class.

Feet of clay and brains of hay
You'll soon regret that very day
You thought that you could get away
With what you want
Let the other guy pay.

Take a lesson from Larry
Whose stance was quite scary
In the airport john
He thought he was on
To a little thrill
He fell for the sting.

And now there is Spitzer
It wasn't his sister
He called on the phone
With the FBI list'ner
He got caught on the tap
Well how about that?


Cheers, S. in Seattle
who with Bob had too much time on his hands today

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:33 PM

Is that a rugburn, Eliot, or did you fall fast from a great height and get windburn?

You'd think someone in his position would know better. I thought it was a great idea to give illegal aliens drivers' licenses, and I was sorry he backed down. He did a lot of good work, but now, in one fell swoop, everything you say about Spitzer is going to have a sly or sexual innuendo.

Americans take sex way too seriously, and prostitution is one of those areas where some of it victimizes the prostitute but a lot of it is victimless. Serial murderers like the Green River Killer probably wouldn't have had so many to prey on if they hadn't been forced into the fringes to begin with. There are lots of good debates that can go on to do with prostitution. COYOTE has been around for a long time.

With Spitzer, the question is "how in hell does a fellow who made his name as a crime fighter think he's going to get away with participating in an activity that is criminalized in this country?" From several states away I could hear the satisfied "Snort!" as those he has prosecuted picked up the paper and read these headlines.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:35 PM

What a difference a month makes...On January 11th riding to Clinton's rescue...

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:41 PM

""how in hell does a fellow who made his name as a crime fighter think he's going to get away with participating in an activity that is criminalized in this country?"

Is prostitution as such illegal in the USA? Not that I'd imagine that makes much difference to the political fall out either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:45 PM

Yes, it is illegal. Isn't it illegal in the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Peace
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 08:45 PM

From the www:

'"You may have heard that Nevada is the only state in the USA where prostitution is legal. That is correct; but prostitution is not legal everywhere in Nevada, and it is not legal in Las Vegas. That's right! Prostitution is illegal in sin city. It is only legal in certain counties that have chosen to make it legal. Clark County Nevada and its principal city Las Vegas chose to not make prostitution legal. It is also illegal in Henderson, Laughlin and Boulder City.'

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:18 PM

Parts of Nevada may be the only places in the U.S. where prostitution is legal, but it's widely tolerated in many cities. The classifieds in some big city newspapers are loaded with ads for escort services and massage parlors, which are just euphymisms for brothels. The only type of prostitute many municipalities try to control is the common streetwalker. As long as it's kept behind closed doors many cities just turn a blind eye.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: kendall
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:19 PM

I can't abide a hypocrit.

Comparing him to Elliot Ness is closer to the truth than you might think. Ness was a total screwup, never caught anything but colds, and he died a drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:22 PM

Hypocrits, especially the wholier-than-thou sort, generally do get some sort of comeuppance eventually.

What I want to know is, since when did public service jobs start paying well enough for Spitzer to buy those nice suits & expensive hookers?

Hmmmm....

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: number 6
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:43 PM

Guest .... Spitzer come from a very, very wealthy family. Inherited wealth probably buys those Brook Bros. suits and pays for 'the girls'.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:01 PM

"...since when did public service jobs start paying well enough for Spitzer to buy those nice suits & expensive hookers?"


               Since whoever was running Ronald Reagan tried to destroy America, public employment began to pay much better than real work, because private employees basically lost their right to organize. And, of course, after 1986 huge numbers of illegal aliens were let into the country for the purpose of driving down wages.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:27 PM

Rig--

Sorry to say that your "illegal alien" mantra really has nothing to do with this issue.

Among other things your criticism of Spitzer for his drivers license proposal, still, mirabile dictu, makes no more sense than it did before Spitzer's revelation about prostitutes. It is still better to have as many drivers have licenses as possible. Among other things, it's a powerful incentive to get insurance.

You can be hit by an uninsured driver, which your attitude makes more likely. But the problem is that your attitude makes it more likely that the rest of us, who disagree with you and your fellow giant intellects --that is, the sensible ones--are also more likely to be hit by an uninsured driver.

If you think that illegal immigrants, deprived of the opportunity for legal licenses, won't drive, you are charmingly naive.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: meself
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:35 PM

Better start deputizing the Boy Scouts ...

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:42 PM

It is interesting, I admit, that Mr. Spitzer is one of Hillary's sterling supporters--and superdelegates. Wonder if this means another one will be slipping away from her. Might be interesting to explore his fundraising for her--if by chance he was as careless with that as with this.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:55 PM

Spitzer's family are successful real estate developers, owning at least one high rise on Fifth Avenue (where he usually lives, spending little time in the Governor's mansion in Albany). He also has a farm property upstate.
He is wealthy; his salary is pocket change.
This has nothin to do with the hypocrites howling round his door about something that is his private concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:28 AM

Now why am I NOT surprised that Ron Davies is intrigued by this development?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:30 AM

I don't know. Maybe he's into prostitutes.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 06:19 AM

>I>Yes, it is illegal. Isn't it illegal in the UK?

No, and never has been. Various stuff do do with prostitution is illegal - for example brothels, pimping, touting for trade in the street ("soliciting") and kerb-crawling by would-be customers. But the actual transaction isn't illegal on either side.

There's some talk about changing this set up - one possibility would be stuff like licensing brothels, another would be to keep the law as it is generally, but to make it a criminal offence for the customers.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:19 AM

This whole illegal immigrant driving thing is madness. They should be licensed, and every state should have an insurance pool to cover their driving mistakes.

We've just had a very tragic one here in MN. Apparently, there were two illegal immigrants in a car that ran a stop sign, slammed into a school bus, and killed four kids. The driver was drunk, and fled the scene, leaving his also drunk girlfriend on the scene. Neither of them was hurt badly, apparently.

And this was the morning bus ride to school.

Since it happened, there has been talk of seizing license plates of recidivist drivers who drive after their licenses have been suspended or revoked, who kill and injure a whole lot of people.

I'm far more worried about the latter outlaw group, though anyone driving who shouldn't be, for whatever reason, concerns me.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:23 AM

Sheer stupidity and arrogance. And apparently he flew her across state lines which makes his crime a federal offence.

Linn says:
I, too, think prostitution should be legal -- to give sex workers better working conditions and keep crime and abusers out of the system.


I don't know, Linn. $5000 per night plus free air fair sounds pretty good to me. Of course it would mean having to "do" Eliot Spitzer...

But in the back of my mind is a little voice saying "What are they trying to distract me from?" and "Why is this coming out in the middle of the primaries?" Is the other shoe about to drop? Is Obama involved? Is Hillary selling her services? Is McCain using veteran's funds for his ladies of the night?

And does anyone really care that Spitzer is paying to get laid?

GIANT SIGH

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:24 AM

Exactly! Illegal aliens shouldn't be here. Therefore, they shouldn't be driving. Therefore, they shouldn't have driver's licenses.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM

$5000 per hour - please tell me this was not taxpayer's money.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:03 AM

Illegal aliens shouldn't be here. Therefore, they shouldn't be driving. Therefore, they shouldn't have driver's licenses. And therefore they shouldn't be involved in road accidents in which other people are injured... And since this shouldn't happen, of course it wouldn't?

This set me wondering whether there is any compensation from the public purse in the US for victims of crimes? (For example where a driver is uninsured or in a hit-and-run?)

But maybe this is drifting the thread a bit too far.

.......................

From what I've seen it appears that Spitzer isn't getting the same kind of relatively sympathetic support from fellow Democrats as Clinton did when his little secret came out. Is that because this time it involved money changing hands? I'd have thought that would have made it less damaging rather than more.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Peace
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:05 AM

"Is that because this time it involved money changing hands? I'd have thought that would have made it less damaging rather than more."

The poor guy just told the world he has to pay someone in order to get laid. Jeeze . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:17 AM

"This set me wondering whether there is any compensation from the public purse in the US for victims of crimes? (For example where a driver is uninsured or in a hit-and-run?)"


                That's a good point. The parents should bring a suit against the federal government for not properly patrolling the border.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:54 AM

That would cover all the cases where the drunk or hit-and-run driver was a citizen?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:58 AM

No. If the driver was a citizen, the victim would have to go after Elliot Spitzer.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:17 AM

But that query of mine was a real one, even if off-topic. Do you in the States have anything comparable to the Criminal Injuries Compensation we have in the UK?

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM

Is anyone but me taken aback at the content of the first post? VoT bemoans Spitzer's fall from grace in the first paragraph but in the second paragraph details far more serious allegations. One would think the second ppg would have led.

Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM

Ebbie, here is an editorial from the New York Times, March 11, 2008.
Under the new welfare reform law, elderly immigrants are targeted.

"As of April 1, a minimum of 50,000 elderly immigrants in NYC will receive letters stating that they will lose their Supplemental Security Income and food stamps if they fail to learn enough English to pass a citizenship test. Another 20,000 to 30,000 elderly immigrants will have to endure a process to determine eligibility for certain exemptions under the same law."
"Senior centers are the places seniors will run to for help. The centers will be expected to absorb this responsibility with no additional resources for such services as English language and citizenship classes."
This looks to me like more of the ridiculous paranoia regarding immigrants.

I haven't looked to see if Gov. Spitzer has made any comments on the proposed law, or what his stand is.
Perhaps someone, other than hypocritical jackels, will post a reliable article stating his stand.

New York City Housing Authority maintains 138 Senior Centers, mostly overseen by NY Dept. for the Aging, 42 city operated, 96 operated by community associations. They provide entertainment, counceling, and most provide meals daily. I don't know if funding is entirely from the City, or partly State funded. A reliable posting would be appreciated.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F93AA35752C0A961958260