BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin

Subject: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 08:34 PM

I've been watching the TV series "Doc Martin" mainly because it's set in the home of my ancestors -- Cornwall.

We just got to see the "Christmas Special" here in Aus. The end bit had a pair of rare Choughs blown up. Well -- I KNOW they didn't REALLY blow up any birds -- rare or otherwise.

BUT I didn't think it was funny. Call me a party-pooper. I'm a funny person. I like funny people. I laugh at all kinds of things. I admire writers of comedy. I do a bit myself in a small way.

Am I alone in not finding this kind of thing funny. I didn't think it was funny when the heros of "O Brother Where Art Thou" killed a cow either. Or "Police Academy" with the killed cat.

Please tell me I'm not alone.

Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 10:02 PM

You are not alone. I will not watch shows which show that kind of thing. Which makes me sad, because we just discovered Doc Martin this year and have really enjoyed what we've been able to get from netflix. Sorry to hear they felt they had to add such gratuitous violence. There's nothing funny about stuff like that, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 11:46 PM

What a relief. Thanks kat.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 11:52 PM

Funny thing is I googled "Doc Martin"+choughs and got a few hits about the making of this episode. Interesting things about the behaviour of the bird stars. The birds had a fun time -- they're so rare they had to be filmed in their enclosure at a wildlife centre.

Also found a few reviews. Nobody had a bad word to say. Everyone thought it was funny.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Gurney
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 12:13 AM

Well. ladies, I saw the episode, and no-one in it was happy about the explosion, including the loony who caused it, albeit accidentally.

If it shines some publicity on the plight of these rare corvids, maybe it will be a good thing. I understand that they need all the help that they can get.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 12:53 AM

I, too, saw the pix of the birds enjoying themselves. They seem to be real "ham" actors. BTW, is it pronounced "chuff" or "choff?"

Was it presented as supposedly funny, Joy? I still don't like it, but esp. so if it was meant to be funny.

Gurney, you have a point.

I thought this was interesting:

The Chough, of course, struggles to survive. But I learn today that Henry VIII has a lot to answer for, with regard to the Chough. Amelia Hill in the Observer reports that "Tudors drove wildlife to the brink":

Millions of birds and animals were slaughtered in England and Wales under a Tudor law which is now being blamed for bringing many native species close to extinction.

...The Preservation of Grain Act, passed in 1532 by Henry VIII and strengthened by Elizabeth I in 1566, made it compulsory for every man, woman and child to kill as many creatures as possible that appeared on an official list of 'vermin'. It is a classic example of a law going somewhat awry in its execution:

'Animals like the wild cat, pine marten and hedgehog as well as the chough, woodpecker, shag and kingfisher were on the list, although many were entirely benign,' said Lovegrove. 'Others on the list were actually beneficial to agriculture by preying on genuine agricultural pests.'

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:50 AM

It depends entirely on where you were brought up. In Dorset and Devon, they're 'chuffs'. I've had arguments with a south-easterner that it's pronounced 'choff'.

It's another example we use to confuse those learning the English language - like plough, cough, through, thorough and hiccough.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:01 AM

Pronounced chuff. We have choughs here but they're a different bird.

It's true no-one laughed at the end but it looked like a gag ending to me, and to True-Love. There was a "hot potato" juggle bit with the bag of explosives. The routine looked like a comic turn.

Before this the bird-observer man was shown as a bit of a fool as were the other bird-watchers. There was no attempt to raise awareness of the plight of the choughs -- they were just used to further the story-line. I could let all that pass. That is all beside the point.

I still think the end is an example of gratuitous violence. And I still think it was meant to be funny.

Anyone else actually see the episode?
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:04 AM

Thanks Liz. I meant to say -- here it's pronounced chuff. I think the Cornish settlers named them -- so I assumed that that's how the Cornish still pronounce it.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:31 AM

Clarification for the non-English speakers (*BG*):

chough, plough, cough, through, thorough and hiccough = chuff, plow, coff, throo, thurur and hiccup.

Isn't English fun!

LTS (ducking and running for cover)!

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 04:05 AM

I don't like it when they blow up animals just to provide a cheap laugh either... but my mate Hairy Roger who used to provide domestic and exotic animals and birds for stage and screen, has frequently assured me that they are better treated than some human actors.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: gnomad
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 06:25 AM

Top up LTS's list of 3.31 with ought (ort) and though (thoe)

Thanks for the bit about the Preservation of Grain Act, never heard about that before. It sounds as though it was meant to preserve fish too, but heaven knows what hedgehogs were thought to threaten.

I understand the distaste for on screen violence, whether against humans or animals, but I do find comfort in what my Mum said to me at my first pantomime: "It's only pretend"

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:18 AM

I find that whenever there's a scene with "man fighting beast" I'm almost always cheering for the "beast".

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:32 AM

that's tough

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM

LtS: thurur for thorough? Over hear it sounds more like "thur-oh.":-)

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 12:33 PM

that sounds like On Walden Pond

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 04:55 PM

I was brought up watching pantomime too, gnomad and it's clear that this series is not going to be of interest to children unable to understand that it's pretend.   Folktales -- on which pantomime depends have clear messages. The ogre/giant/evil-stepmother gets killed/severely injured because he/she is bad. It might be an extreme form of punishment but it's shown as just desserts.

There is no reason a series like Doc Martin needs a message. It's not that kind of show. Black humour can be my favourite kind -- but I believe the ending of this episode was played for cheap and nasty laughs. And I didn't like it.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:40 PM

I should have noted the emphasis is on the first syllable: THUR-oh, rather than thur-OH.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Emma B
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:50 PM

I dunno I think you've just got to love those Doc Martins :)

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 06:04 PM

OOOOOh I like those.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 05:38 AM

Ah Kat, that's because you're American. In England, where English was developed, it's thurur. I really can't get my head or tongue around 'Thur-oely Modern Millie'...

:)

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:02 AM

Well I think this is worse Larry The Loafer
How can they be so cruel.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:42 AM

THUR-oh    vs    thurur ?

I'd go for thu-ruh.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:47 AM

The Tudors were savages.

In relation to the pronunciation of -ough words in English, there's this old poem:

I'm taught p-l-o-u-g-h
s'all be pronouncé "plow."
"Zat's easy w'en you know," I say,
"Mon Anglais, I'll get through!"

My teacher say zat in zat case,
O-u-g-h is "oo."
And zen I laugh and say to him,
"Zees Anglais make me cough."

He say "Not 'coo,' but in zat word,
O-u-g-h is 'off,'"
Oh Sacre bleu! such varied sounds
Of words makes me hiccough!

He say "Again mon frien' ees wrong,
O-u-g-h is 'up'"
In hiccough." Zen I cry, "No more,
You make my t'roat feel rough."

"Non, non!" he cry, "you are not right;
O-u-g-h is 'uff.'"
I say, "I try to spik your words,
I cannot spik zem though!"

"In time you'll lean, but now you're wrong!
O-u-g-h is 'owe.'"
"I'll try no more, I s'all go mad,
I'll drown me in ze lough!"

"But ere you drown yourself," said he,
O-u-g-h is 'ock.'"
He taught no more, I held him fast,
And killed him wiz a rough.

- Charles Battell Loomis, from The Book of Humorous Verse

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:02 AM

Getting back to the Chough's, there was alot of furore in Cornwall when it was shown the first time. Chough's are our National Bird and a very endangered species.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: GUEST,gust
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:15 AM

There's a shanty isn't there that has the line, "....and the cheeks of her arse went chuff,chuff,chuff." Strange bird!

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:52 AM

theres that bit in macbeth, where he's talking bout dogs

First Murderer
We are men, my liege.

MACBETH
Ay, in the catalogue ye go for men;
As hounds and greyhounds, mongrels, spaniels, curs,
Shoughs, water-rugs and demi-wolves, are clept
All by the name of dogs: the valued file


In my opinion, its all the same when push comes to shough.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:16 AM

no one cares about the shoughs. we let them die out.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:56 PM

Thanks Cats. I wondered about that.
Our (Victoria, Australia) State bird -- The Helmeted Honey-eater has been on the endangered list for decades. They are just hanging on in one tiny woodland. Our State mammal is also endangered.

The blowing-up of the Choughs was only part of the problem, I believe. There was also the message that people who cared were fools at best, dangerous at worst. I got the idea the message was also "let's make fun of the Cornish people for caring about their boring old birds".

If I'd been doing the writing I'd have had the Choughs win -- Had them blow up the egg-stealing baker. He was the nasty piece of work.
Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM

Consider this:
Chose an animal, bird -- whatever -- some living thing -- about which you care deeply -- whales, dolphins, puppies, little kids, polar bears -- and put them into the same situation. Show them being blown up for a laugh. Would you find that funny?

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: GUEST,Fatneopagansmoker
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:37 PM

I have to say, Joybell, that as a Helmeted Honey-eater I have never met any boring old birds in Cornwall.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:36 AM

Wasn't the choughs' problem in England the old curse of emigration? I heard they all left, singing Chough along to Buffalo.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:25 AM

Gas mark 6, 20minutes a pound. Sounds good to me!

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: skarpi
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:49 AM

Doc Martin , I just love that man hihihi he reminds me of al ot of people
I know.

ATB skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 06:05 AM

"The Preservation of Grain Act, passed in 1532 by Henry VIII and strengthened by Elizabeth I in 1566, made it compulsory for every man, woman and child to kill as many creatures as possible that appeared on an official list of 'vermin'. It is a classic example of a law going somewhat awry in its execution:

'Animals like the wild cat, pine marten and hedgehog as well as the chough, woodpecker, shag and kingfisher were on the list, although many were entirely benign,' said Lovegrove. 'Others on the list were actually beneficial to agriculture by preying on genuine agricultural pests.'"

Reminds me of killing cats cause it was thought they had something to do with causing Black Plague...

The whole point of Science is that we look carefully at the results of our actions to modify our future actions... unless you believe in certain types of "Religion" ...

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 11:08 PM

skarpi, I know just what you mean. I have several friends like Doc Martin too. Also I was a nurse so I worked with several. I also have a friend -- possiblly more than one now I think about it -- like the mad Irishman in the episode in question.
I find the story lines in Doc Martin a bit ordinary but the characters a lot of fun. Also,of course, the scenery is wonderful.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: open mike
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:15 PM

I thought you meant shoes

Here is more about the CORVUS bird

It builds a wool-lined stick nest in a cave, and feeds on the ground, taking mainly invertebrate prey.

It has a buoyant and easy flight soaring above the cliffs with widespread primaries; it often indulges in aerobatics, rolling and turning, and tail-chasing with wings almost closed (which produces a whizzing sound) before sweeping upwards again.

and then there is that expression "i'm chuffed"
which sounds like it might mean I'm angry, mad or pissed off,
but which actually means i'm happy, glad and pleased. (right?)

or maybe not....this definition is given also..
chuff 1 v fart. 2 n one's posterior. 3 expl usable much the same as "fuck" as a general swear word: it was all going fine until the chuffing pigs turned up. ...

who is right?!

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Cats
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 01:20 PM

You are right, Joybell. The very best bit for us is location spotting. It's amazing how he can turn left out of the village and be in Truro in 5 minutes! In fact if you did turn left out of the village you are going the wrong way. Also, I didn't realise that I lived so close to Port Isaac. But to give them their due, he has bought a house down here to live in while filming and uses his other house in Dorset and his holiday home.

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Joybell
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:21 PM

Cats, my people came from that coast. How wonderful that I'm talking to someone still walking those same streets and cliffs. The family mill still stands in Manaccan. Please say hello from me to anyone called Semmens.
I'm back watching Doc Martin. Can't help myself.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: that's it for me and Doc Martin
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:56 PM

I don't in the least mind a comedy that has an incident where some yappy little lapdogs or a parrot or something supposedly meet a sudden and violent end...like in "A Fish Called Wanda" for example. It doesn't upset me because I don't see it as real. Now if I saw a film of someone supposedly torturing an animal...that would upset me.

Nope, but the thing that can totally turn me off to a show is seeing scenes of brutal and sadistic violence toward women. I can't bloody well stand watching that. I quit watching the Sopranos on account of that kind of stuff, and I'd have to say that the Sopranos was, in its own way, a darned good show.