Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden

Subject: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: andymac
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:21 AM

A friend of mine is looking for info on the Battle of Culloden and its specific impact on children (their stories of lost parents, the effects of the battle on their way of life) for a history project.

There seems to be very little in written histories and she was wondering if the oral tradition might be a better source.

The only song that sprung to mind was "King Fareweel" which I occasionally sing. It has a line "Mony's the braw laddie lost his daddie" which isn't much of a record of the impact such battles.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

I knwo there are lots of Jacobite songs composed long after the event but I was specifically looking for anything contemporaneous with the battle. i.e. mid-late 18th century.

Thanks

Andymac

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: goatfell
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:25 AM

culloden harvest by Alistair McDonald

Subject: Lyr/Chords Add: CULLODEN'S HARVEST (A McDonald)
From: goatfell
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:26 AM

Culloden's Harvest
^^^
      Em         D                  C       Bm
cho: Cold the winds on the moors blow
      Em            D          C    Bm
    Warm, the enemy's fire glows
    G             A         C       Em
    Black the harvest of Culloden
    C             Bm         C       Em
    Pain, and fear, and death grow.

            Em             D                      C               G
'Twas love of our prince drove us on to Drummossy
            Em             Bm            C
But in scarcely the time that it takes me to tell
       Em                D                C                     G
The flower of our country lay scorched by an army
      Em               Bm
C
As ruthless and red as the embers of hell.

cho:

Red Campbell, the false, did the work of the English
McDonald in anger did no work at all
With musket and cannon 'gainst honour and courage
The invader's men stood while our clansmen did fall.

cho:

Now mothers and children are left to their weeping
With only the memory of father and son
Turned out of their homes to make shelter for strangers
The blackest of hours on this land has begun.

cho:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: goatfell
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:27 AM

I know it isn't the century your looking for but it about the battle

Subject: Lyr Add: CULLODEN or DRUMMOSIE MOOR (Jim McLean)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 10:58 AM

^^CULLODEN or DRUMMOSIE MOOR
Words Jim McLean 1963
Tune Wae's me for Prince Charlie
Pub. Duart Music London

I wrote this song, not as a romantic ballad in praise of Charles Edward Stewart, but to show how his arrogance and the incompetence of his generals, coupled with the fierce pride of his Chieftains, notably the MacDonalds, led to a terrible slaughter and was the beginning of the end of the Highland way of life.

The hail o' Scotland's wearing black,
A' dessed up for the soddin,                                 (burial)
Prince Chairlie chose the place himsel',
The grave yaird o' Culloden.
Wi' hungry men, he faced the Duke,                        (Cumberland)
Wi' hungry men an' weary.
Wi' sticks and stanes,' gainst England's guns,      
They thocht they'd win for Chairlie.

MacDonald he glowered, and stood aback,
His pride was hurt richt sairly,
Hw wouldna fecht on any other side,
But on the richt o' Chairlie.
On England's side, wi' lack o' pride,
The Campbell smiled sae slyly,
Oor Hielan' men, were split in twain,
They focht baith for George and for Chairlie.

The Redcoats gaed doon on yin knee,
And held their muskets ready.
Their bellies ticht wi' breid and cheese,
Their haunds sae warm and steady,
Oor Hieland men upon them cam,
Their rags aboot them barely.
Wi' slogans an faith, they met their death,
They starved and died for Chairlie.

He stood on a knowe, the fecht tae see,
The snaw fell on him lichtly,
But in scarce an oor on Drummossie Moor                (hour)
He witnessed the murder o' his country.
The hale o' Scotland's wearing black,
A' dressed up for the soddin'
Prince Chairlie chose the place himsel'
The Graveyaird o' Culloden.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: bankley
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:09 AM

Culloden's Moor by Enda Cullen and Ian Smith... can be heard on Ian's myspace page..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 12:44 PM

WOuld "Flowers O' the Forest" qualify?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: mg
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 12:45 PM

Sound the Pibroch..fantastic song..

on dark Culloden's fields of war
hark they shout claymore claymore...

is the one that goes Donald was the bravest man and Donald he was mine about it? mg

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Big Tim
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 12:53 PM

Good song Jim. 'The Flowers of the Forest' is about the battle of Flodden.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: andymac
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:12 PM

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

Unfortunately, from what has been mentioned and as I suspected, the majority of songs seem to have been written much later.

What I was after was songs, fragments or even stories that anyone knew that were traditional and likely to have come via survivors' experiences.

mg. Isn't that the Border Widow's Lament you're quoting? I suspect that was about another war..we had (and are still having) so many of them.

Arran, I don't know Culloden Harvest. I'll look it up though.
And I will check out Enda and Ian's MySpace.

Thanks everyone.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: masato sakurai
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:17 PM

Search
James Hogg, The Jacobite Relics of Scotland [1st series] (1819), and The Jacobite Relics of Scotland, 2nd series (1821). These are the most comprehensive collections of Jacobite songs, with scores and notes. Or Robert Malcolm, ed., Jacobite Minstrelsy, with notes illustrative of the text, etc. (1829) [texts only].

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: andymac
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:26 PM

Thanks very much masato. I don't have either of these at home..and I'm not anywhere near home just now anyway. I will pass on the links and hopefully my friend will chase down something.

Subject: Lyr Add: NO GODS AND PRECIOUS FEW HEROES (McNeill)
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM

NO GODS AND PRECIOUS FEW HEROES
(Brian McNeill)
^^

As sung by Dick Gaughan:


I was listening to the news the other day
I heard a fat politician who had the nerve to say
He was proud to be Scottish, by the way
With the glories of our past to remember
"Here's tae us, wha's like us", listen to the cry
No surrender to the truth and here's the reason why
The power and the glory's just another bloody lie
They use to keep us all in line

For there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And it's time now to sweep the future clear
Of the lies of a past that we know was never real

Farewell to the heather in the glen
They cleared us off once and they'd do it all again
For they still prefer sheep to thinking men
Ah, but men who think like sheep are even better
There's nothing much to choose between the old laird and the new
They still don't give a damn for the likes of me and you
Just mind you pay your rent to the factor when it's due
And mind your bloody manners when you pay.

And tell me will we never hear the end
Of puir bluidy Charlie at Culloden yet again?
Though he ran like a rabbit down the glen
Leavin better folk than him to be butchered
Or are you sittin in your council house, dreamin o your clan?
Waiting for the Jacobites to come and free the land?
Try going down the broo with your claymore in your hand
And count all the princes in the queue.

So don't talk to me of Scotland the Brave
For if we don't fight soon there'll be nothing left to save
Or would you rather stand and watch them dig your grave
While you wait for the tartan messiah?
He'll lead us to the promised land with laughter in his eye
We'll all live on the oil and the whisky by and by
Free heavy beer, pie suppers in the sky
Will we never have the sense to learn?

That there's no gods and there's precious few heroes
But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal
And I'm damned sure that there's plenty live in fear
Of the day we stand together with our shoulders at the wheel
Aye there's no gods.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: andymac
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:36 PM

Cheers Dianne,

Great though the song is (and I've heard them both sing it many times) I wouldn't class it as contemporaneous with the battle. I know Dick's getting on a wee bit but...hehe

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Big Tim
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:59 PM

I've got Hogg's Jacobite Relics, will check it tomorrow and report back if no one else beats me to it.

Subject: Lyr Add: CULLODEN
From: Big Tim
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:44 PM

I just realised that Masato's link was to online versions of Hogg's books. However, the Second series online doesn't seem to be complete. Song XIII on page 414, I couldn't see online. It's called 'Culloden'. Words are:

The heath-cock crawed o'er muir and' dale,
Red raise the sun o'er distant vale,
Our nothern clans, wi' dinsome yell,
Around their chiefs were gath'ring.
'O, Duncan, are ye ready yet?
M'Donald are ye ready yet?
O, Fraser, are ye ready yet?
To join the clans in the morning'.

On yonder hills our clans appear,
The sun back frae their spears shines clear,
The Southron trumps fall on my ear,
'Twill be an awfu' morning.
'O, Duncan etc

The Prince has come to claim his ain,
A stem o' Stuart's glorious name,
What Highlander his sword was hain,
For Charlie's cause this morning.
'O, Duncan etc

Nae mair we'll chace the the fleet, fleet roe,
O'er downie glen or mountain,
But rush like tempest on the foe,
Wi' sword and targe this morning.
'O, Duncan etc

Duncan now nae mair seems keen,
He's lost his dirk and tartan sheen,
His bannet's stained that ance was clean,
Foul fa' that awfu' morning.
'O, Duncan etc

But Scotland shall rue the day,
Saw her flag sae fiercely flee,
Culloden hills were hills o' wae,
It was an awfu' morning.
'O, Duncan etc

Fair Flora's gane her love tae seek,
The midnight dew fa's on her cheek,
What Scottish heart that will not weep,
For Charlie's fate that morning.
'O, Duncan etc.

Published 1821. The tune is given as 'Lament for the Lord Maxwell', music in Hogg, page 33, second series. I can email if wanted.

There's another song in the same volume called 'Culloden; or, Lochiel's Farewell'. Will post tomorrow if wanted or needed (or if Jim McLean doesn't get in there first!).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM

Wonderful stuff, that, Diane. Two of my favorite artists there. Thanks for sharing it.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TEARS OF SCOTLAND (Tobias Smollett)
From: patriot1314
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:11 PM

Some great songs there, plenty more to follow no doubt, but May I suggest a poem.
The Tears of Scotland by Tobias Smollett

THE TEARS OF SCOTLAND.

WRITTEN IN THE YEAR 1746.

    1 Mourn, hapless Caledonia! mourn
    Thy banish'd peace, thy laurels torn!
    Thy sons, for valour long renown'd,
    Lie slaughter'd on their native ground;
    Thy hospitable roofs no more
    Invite the stranger to the door;
    In smoky ruins sunk they lie,
    The monuments of cruelty.

    2 The wretched owner sees afar
    His all become the prey of war;
    Bethinks him of his babes and wife,
    Then smites his breast, and curses life.
    Thy swains are famish'd on the rocks,
    Where once they fed their wanton flocks:
    Thy ravish'd virgins shriek in vain;
    Thy infants perish on the plain.

    3 What boots it, then, in every clime,
    Through the wide-spreading waste of Time,
    Thy martial glory, crown'd with praise,
    Still shone with undiminish'd blaze?
    Thy towering spirit now is broke,
    Thy neck is bended to the yoke.
    What foreign arms could never quell,
    By civil rage and rancour fell.

    4 The rural pipe and merry lay
    No more shall cheer the happy day:
    No social scenes of gay delight
    Beguile the dreary winter night.
    No strains but those of sorrow flow,
    And nought be heard but sounds of woe,
    While the pale phantoms of the slain
    Glide nightly o'er the silent plain.

    5 Oh! baneful cause, oh! fatal morn,
    Accursed to ages yet unborn!
    The sons against their father stood,
    The parent shed his children's blood.
    Yet, when the rage of battle ceased,
    The victor's soul was not appeased:
    The naked and forlorn must feel
    Devouring flames, and murdering steel!

    6 The pious mother, doom'd to death,
    Forsaken wanders o'er the heath,
    The bleak wind whistles round her head,
    Her helpless orphans cry for bread;
    Bereft of shelter, food, and friend,
    She views the shades of night descend,
    And, stretch'd beneath the inclement skies,
    Weeps o'er her tender babes, and dies.

    7 While the warm blood bedews my veins,
    And unimpair'd remembrance reigns,
    Resentment of my country's fate,
    Within my filial breast shall beat;
    And, spite of her insulting foe,
    My sympathising verse shall flow:
    Mourn, hapless Caledonia! mourn
    Thy banish'd peace, thy laurels torn!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Susan of DT
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:50 PM

a search of the Digital Tradition for Culloden yields 13 hits

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 05:09 PM

As a son of the post Culloden dispora I have a quibble with songs that glorify Prince Charley and it is this:
Charley was no hero in my eyes although the cause of Scotland is dear to my heart. The Highland clans fought bravely with Charley and drove the Englishman over the Tweed. At that time he could have fortified the border and proclaimed himself king of Scotland but that was not to be. His greed was for the throne of England and he demanded support from his followers to march on to London. Many clan leaders did not support this drive and returned home. Declining support slowed his progress giving Cumberland's army time to return from Holland, setting the Scots into retreat. The final battle at Culloden was only the last stand and even there Charley's arrogance cost him support. After the battle brave Scots aided Charleys return to the continent but they were left to pay a terrible price as Butcher Cumberland extracted his revenge. Charley never returned although he was always regarded as the king over the water.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 05:28 PM

There's the other Brian McNeill song about the real hero of the piece, Flora MacDonald. Nothing like the sentimental tosh of The Skye Boat Song, Strong Women Rule Us All tells of how she was exiled to the Carolinas and then had to witness her husband recruited into the English royalist army in the War of Independence:

There's a moment of your story
That has always haunted me
When you set out in yon open boat
To help the poor man flee
Was Charlie Stuart's future
Already plain to see
Did you know he'd be a waster all his days?

Charles Edward Stuart was a member of the pan-European Catholic aristocracy who could barely speak English, never mind Scots. I don't think he had a great deal in common with the ordinary clan people and their aspirations, only his own megalomaniac ambition.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 05:42 PM

There was Peter Watkins' 1964 film, Culloden, with Colin Cater singing "My bonnie moorhen". This "reported" Culloden and its aftermath as if in a contemporary black and white documentary film. I was 13 when I first saw it, and it made a lasting impression.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 05:56 PM

I forgot to mention my disclaimer (mentioned the last time there was a debate about Scots history in song) that everything I know about the Jacobite rebellion is from the writings of John Prebble, who I see was historical advisor to the film Culloden. It was June Tabor (who had just come down from reading history at Oxford) who recommended that I read Prebble's trilogy. So if I've got anything wrong it's her fault.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: andymac
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 05:27 AM

Thanks for the comments and suggestions everyone.
I'll pass these suggestions on and she'll have a trawl through it and report back to me no doubt.
Dianne, I too got a lot of my Scots history from Prebble and an awful lot from our songs too.

Sandy, I couldn't agree more with your comment re. Charles Edward Stuart.
To most, if not all of, the ruling class of their day the ordinary people were expendable (Had to recheck to make sure I hadn't typed expandable..LOL) and the tragedy was that the clanspeople hadn't realised that a longstanding bond had been severed by their chieftains. I don't think too many people would argue that economic and social change would have occurred in the Highlands anyway. It's just that the Jacobite rebellions allowed an excuse for a far more brutal transformation.

But I don't want to rant over this, I've done that before and doubtless will do so again.
Thanks again my fellow Mudcatters for all your help.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 06:03 AM

As a young man Charlie was OK, vain but fairly courageous. In later life he went way off the rails. However, in 1745-6 the highlanders regarded him as the legit king, otherwise they wouldn't have risked their lives for him. Many, including Lady Nairne's grandfather,lost their lands and were condemned to decades of foreign exile. What was important about Charlie was what he represented, not his character. There have been quite a few less than perfect monarchs over the centuries.                                                         

'Bonnie Moorhen' is a very old song as it is in Hogg.

Flora MacDonald was indeed a noble character. Hugh Douglas' biography of her is a great read, particularly interesting for Americans as she spent much of her life in the States.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 09:32 AM

"a cold mist at dusk
but it falls down unnoticed
by the dead and the dying
on Drumossy Moor our highlanders felled
by Lord Cumberland's thunder
and Bonny Prince driven on
far from the moor

return to Loch Moy
and the lassie who loves you
return to Loch Moy
and may God speed your way"

.... and I don't remember it after that ... something about forgeting all about the battle and restarting their lives ...

there's a chorus that says

"All you've endured in my arms will be cured
the battle is lost now return from the fray ..."
etc etc ... I wish I could remember more.

it's a pretty song.

here's a link to a sample. Click "Listen Now" for the song, Return to Loch Moy."

I don't have the CD anymore. You can probably find the whole MP3 on-line somewhere.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 04:28 PM

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that Bonnie Moorhen was about Culloden - only that the film was, and that the song was included in the sound track. I came home from the English National festival one year, about 10 years ago, where I'd seen and heard Colin Cater, and found that the Peter Watkins film was being shown again on TV that very evening.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 10:43 AM

Where did the Loch Moy song come from? Is it old?

It sounds more English in origins. Where can I find the rest of the song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 11:27 AM

Great Song ' The Highland Widows Lament ' covered by The Ian Campbell Folk Group and The Corries.

eric

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Jim McLean
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 12:27 PM

I've got a feeling the Highland Widow's Lament is about Glencoe?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Jim McLean
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM

You're quite right Eric the Red, sorry. The song was written by Robert Burns. I confused it with another song about Glencoe, which has the exclamation, Ochone, ochon, ochrie which is in the first volume of Johnson's Scots Musical Museum (no.89)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Rumncoke
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 03:34 PM

Several things went wrong which could so easily have gone right in the 1745 rebellion - there was a ship captured by the English which was carrying money to fund the fighting - and when the Prince's advisers voted to turn back to the North instead of making for London it was mainly because they trusted the false report that there was an army of 9000 men in their way, but the information was from an English agent.

If there had been Stuart kings on the throne again I doubt that things would have turned out much different - not after 100 years or so.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Little Robyn
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 04:01 PM

Jim, the song with Ochone, ochon, ochrie is probably the Border Widow's Lament and some people have confused the two. I have heard one sung to the tune of the other, and not very well.
Not specifically Culloden but supposedly written shortly after the 1715 uprising is Derwentwater's Farewell. Yes, it's from England but Northumbrians were dragged into the uprising as well and James Radcliffe was beheaded for his part in it. His brother Charles was beheaded along with Fraser in 1746 for their part in the later uprising.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 03:57 AM

The Ian Campbell Folk Group call it 'The Highland Widows Lament' ably sung by Lorna, it'a NOT the same song as 'The Border Widows Lament' or more properly ' The Lament Of The Border Widow ' which itself is a fragment of a longer song, The Corries called it ' Highland Lament ' basicly the same song as the Ian Campbell version but the last verse saying,

My Donald and his country fell,
Upon Cullodens field.

eric

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 06:01 AM

I produced an LP years ago from the Troubadour in London and Jeannie Steele sang it then (she was Martin Winsor's wife). I'm afraid I found it extremely 'dreich'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 07:36 AM

It's dreich allright, but then it's a dreich subject, you wouldn't want bouncy and chirpy would you ?

eric

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 09:22 AM

I think the mood could be sombre but I jsut found the total effect boring rather than reflective. But again it could have been the singer's interpretation. I haven't heard the Corries' or Ian Campbell's but I will.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 10:46 AM

Corries version is on the album ' Kishmuils Galley ' the Ian Campbell one I have on a compilation, The Best Of Scottish Folk Music.

eric

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 12:13 PM

There's always MacCrimmon's Lament, not about Culloden, it's true, but the Rout of Moy. As Donald MacCrimmon is said to have composed it in 1746 on the eve of the skirmish in which he was killed after forseeing his own death, it's about as contemporaneous as you're going to get.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs about Culloden
From: Kiss Me Slow Slap Me Quick
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 12:47 PM

LADY KEITH'S LAMENT. About one of the many ruined Scotish gentry.