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Origins: Bear Dance

Crowdercref 01 Apr 08 - 05:03 AM
Cats 01 Apr 08 - 09:23 AM
vectis 01 Apr 08 - 09:46 AM
manitas_at_work 01 Apr 08 - 09:55 AM
bubblyrat 01 Apr 08 - 10:12 AM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Apr 08 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,Henry 01 Apr 08 - 02:52 PM
Malcolm Douglas 01 Apr 08 - 03:24 PM
open mike 01 Apr 08 - 04:00 PM
Tootler 01 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Apr 08 - 08:43 PM
Crowdercref 02 Apr 08 - 05:57 AM
Jack Campin 02 Apr 08 - 06:27 AM
Tootler 02 Apr 08 - 05:32 PM
Herga Kitty 02 Apr 08 - 06:14 PM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Apr 08 - 07:07 PM
GUEST 03 Apr 08 - 05:44 AM
GUEST,Dr Price 03 Apr 08 - 05:47 AM
Mr Red 03 Apr 08 - 01:29 PM
Tootler 03 Apr 08 - 04:22 PM
Mick Tems 04 Apr 08 - 05:56 AM
steve_harris 04 Apr 08 - 08:22 PM
Mr Red 05 Apr 08 - 10:04 AM
steve_harris 05 Apr 08 - 10:21 AM
Mr Red 05 Apr 08 - 01:41 PM
Mr Red 05 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM
Tootler 05 Apr 08 - 05:17 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Apr 08 - 05:59 PM
Jack Campin 19 May 08 - 08:53 AM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 09 Jun 08 - 08:45 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Jun 08 - 08:48 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 09 Jun 08 - 09:19 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 09 Jun 08 - 09:23 PM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Jun 08 - 04:01 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 10 Jun 08 - 05:56 AM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 10 Jun 08 - 08:23 AM
Tootler 10 Jun 08 - 08:35 AM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Jun 08 - 09:14 AM
The Fooles Troupe 10 Jun 08 - 09:34 AM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Jun 08 - 03:29 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 10 Jun 08 - 06:30 PM
Tootler 10 Jun 08 - 07:23 PM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 10 Jun 08 - 08:50 PM
Malcolm Douglas 11 Jun 08 - 03:54 AM
Mick Tems 11 Jun 08 - 04:57 AM
Mick Tems 11 Jun 08 - 09:42 AM
Jacob B 11 Jun 08 - 09:45 AM
T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird) 11 Jun 08 - 10:54 PM
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Subject: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Crowdercref
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 05:03 AM

Kind People,

I wondered if any one can tell me an early source for the 'Bear's Dance', popular at sessions some years ago. The 4/4 tune, usually played in Aeolian began something like EAA, EAAB,CCBC,E.

I suspect it's not the Bear's Dance found in Playford's Apollo's Banquet, but I wondered if it might be in Susato or some other early collection.

The reason I ask is that it has a similar 'feel', harmonic pattern and circular dance form to the Newlyn Reel, about which nothing is known before about 1914.

Oll an gwella

Crowder


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Cats
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:23 AM

And before anyone says anything, this is not an April Fools Joke. It's for real. xx


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: vectis
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:46 AM

I thought it was a Sussex tune but am probably about to be proved very wrong.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:55 AM

It's a Belgian tune. One point of it's entry into the UK was via members of the Earls of Essex and Manor Morris from East London. Pyewackett recorded it at one point. I think it was Ian Blake who asked me what the tune Dave Roberts was so fond of playing was and I sang it to him.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: bubblyrat
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 10:12 AM

It had a good outing at a Fareham (Ferneham Hall) bar session 2 weeks ago, so it's still alive and kicking !!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 10:30 AM

I was once playing a CD of 'trad folk tunes' that were Eastern European. Suddenly I recognised the tune - The Bear Dance!

When I get home, I will try to locate the CD.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: GUEST,Henry
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 02:52 PM

It is now heard everywhere you go having been recorded and popularised by Spiers and Boden.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:24 PM

It was widely played in sessions long before them, largely due to Blowzabella, who likely got it from the '70s Flemish band Rum. Nowadays it turns up all over Europe, but this may be a purely Revival phenomenon. Note that Bear Dance, Barentanz and so on seem to be generic terms and may not always refer to the same thing.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: open mike
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:00 PM

I have played the tune Dancing Bear...i wonder if there is any relation?

look for both here:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind

or here:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/index/search?name=bear+dance&type_id=&mode_id=

are you talking about the e minor reel or the a minor polka?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Tootler
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM

I have a version on one of my early music CDs. There are differences to the the version I have heard in sessions and play myself, but still recognisably the same tune. The sleeve notes suggest the tune is possibly 16th century in origin but don't say where from.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 08:43 PM

"suggest the tune is possibly 16th century in origin"

Well the SCA insists on playing the damn thing endlessly (only the Offical Version - from the hissy [fit?] tape recopied endlessly from the original scratchy LP recorded in the 1970s!) ... was present once at an event when an Aussie band that 'specialises' in Early Music was asked did they know the tune, so that the SCAers could dance to it - then got abused for playing the 'wrong version'.... :-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Crowdercref
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 05:57 AM

There are a number of tunes called the Bear's Dance. The one I picked up on was the A minor (well - aeolian) dance in 4/4 time (I didn't call it a polka because that seems to be a late 20th century descriptor.)

I have heard it on CDs allegedly of 16th and 17th century dance music - a time when there was frequent contact between UK and the low countries - study of the Fitzwilliam Virginals Book (c. 1614-17) reveals a lot of shared repertoire.

The tune I heard doesn't seem to be in Playford, Fitzwilliam VB, or Lady Nevilles VB, but I assume it must be in a contemporaneous collection.

Thank you all for your help. Most music research comes down to such friendly teamwork. Any more inputs would be most welcome ...

Crowdercref


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 06:27 AM

It seems to be a variant of "Shady Grove".


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Tootler
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 05:32 PM

...then got abused for playing the 'wrong version'.

and

There are a number of tunes called the Bear's Dance.

It would be very surprising if after around 500 years, there weren't variants. From what I have seen on some of the SCA websites I would not consider them to be a particularly authoritative source.

study of the Fitzwilliam Virginals Book (c. 1614-17) reveals a lot of shared repertoire.

England was very much part of the European musical mainstream at this time and repertoire travelled widely. A number of tunes of English origin can be found in "Der Fluyten Lust-hof", a collection of variations on popular tunes for descant recorder published in Amsterdam between 1644 and 1654 by Jacob van Eyck a recorder and carillon player from Utrecht.

Of course this does not help us specifically with the origins of the Bear Dance.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 06:14 PM

The late (and sadly missed) Dave Roberts danced with Earls of Essex and played in Blowzabella, so the postings from Manitas and Malcolm Douglas are consistent.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 07:07 PM

"From what I have seen on some of the SCA websites I would not consider them to be a particularly authoritative source."

From an ex-SCA-er - ROFLMAO! :-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 05:44 AM

The Bear Band (Swansea ceilidh band who are still going strong, with founder members John Howes and melodeonist Huw Jones at the forefront) based their name on The Bear Dance. Years ago, I used to play in the Calennig Big Band; we staged a twmpath/ceilidh at Pontardawe Festival with Les Jones calling. Les showed the punters a Belgian version of The Bear Dance, which climaxed in the dancers kneeling and bashing their heads on the floor in time to the music! Of course, we learned the tune from Pyewackett, who I booked for Llantrisant Folk Club and who played an absolute dream. I must contact our friends who dance with an Antwerp group - perhaps they can identify The Bear Dance?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 05:47 AM

Sorry - that was me. Damn these cookies...

Mick Tems


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 01:29 PM

We had this discussion on e-ceilidh.

There is a reference to Bear Dance in the EDM but I can't remember if it was tune or dance. It was one of them but not both. And there are several of Mr Playford's editions of EDM.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Tootler
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 04:22 PM

I've just checked my Playford. ("The Complete Country Dance Tunes from the Dancing Master" Ed. Jeremy Barlow) Jeremy Barlow has gathered together all the tunes that appeared in the 18 Editions of the Dancing Master and there is no Bear Dance in the index.

Playford published a wide range of music books through much of the 2nd half of the 17th. Century, so maybe there is a version in one of his other publications.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mick Tems
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 05:56 AM

Bingo! Liesbeth Stryckers of Antwerp emailed to me:

"Yes, there's a dance called Bear Dance! It's a traditional children's dance and it's danced on a very easy melody. I don't remember the steps, but I'll ask Dirk over the weekend to send you the music and the steps."

Until the weekend...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: steve_harris
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 08:22 PM

> a Belgian version of The Bear Dance, which climaxed in the dancers > kneeling and bashing their heads on the floor in time to the music!

One of our local callers enjoys this dance immensely and once called it in Postlip Tithe Barn where the floor is about as dusty as it gets.

I am not interested in the origins of the dance but want to find the "dustbin of history" and put this dance in it together with said caller.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 10:04 AM

Like I said I checked the on-line Playford pages after an EC discussion and found a Bear Dance - I will retrace my steps at work. I was hoping for the instructions for the dance - and none were found, but what was found was called a Bear's Dance.
alltheweb.com search for Playford Bear Dance reveals this on page 1 and numerous other lists of broadcasting of the tune on many radio stations. And the Playford tune had music - if you can read it! On the a seminal web resource the name of which eludes me.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: steve_harris
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 10:21 AM

> I was hoping for the instructions for the dance - and none were
> found

Some things are just not meant to be, Cresby darling :-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 01:41 PM

Wot? No link to the E-ceilidh website. Steve - you are slipping.

Ceilidh dancers take note - you can talk about nothing else there. Nothing else OR ELSE.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM

you will be put in the dustbin of history.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 05:17 PM

Like I said I checked the on-line Playford pages after an EC discussion and found a Bear Dance

And like I said, the Dancing Master was not Playford's only publication by a long way. It is quite possible that the tune appears in one of his other publications. I don't know.

Jeremy Barlow's edition of the Dancing Master is the authoritative version and he has included all the tunes that appeared in the 18 editions with all their variants. If Bear Dance had occurred in the 500 or so tunes that appeared in the Dancing Master, I'm sure he would have found it and indexed it. Incidentally the title "English Dancing Master" only applied to the first (1651) edition.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 05:59 PM

The Playford 'Bear's Dance' is, as clearly stated in the original question for those who choose to read it, in Apollo's Banquet. It is not in the Dancing Master. There is a soundclip at Amazon.

It bears, if you'll excuse the expression, no resemblance at all to the Flemish 'Bear Dance' familiar from modern pub sessions. The tunes are obviously unrelated.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 May 08 - 08:53 AM

Does anybody have dance instructions for Les Jones's Flemish headbanging dance? (Doesn't matter if they're in Dutch, I can find somebody to read it).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:45 PM

I've just gone cover to cover in the 1690/1691 Apollo's Banquet and there is no Bear's Dance in it.

Here are the contents, for those who don't believe me. In The Third Part of Apollo's Banquet numbers 52 through 68 are not in numerical order--they must have been bound wrong. They are shown below in the order in which they were bound:

Apollo's Banquet: containing Instructions, and Variety of New Tunes, Ayres, Jiggs, and several New Scotch Tunes for the Treble-Violin. To which is added, The Tunes of the newest French Dances, now used at Court and in Dancing-Schools. The Sixth Edition, with new Additions.   In the Savoy: Printed by E. Jones, for Henry Playford at his Shop near the Temple Church, and at his House over against the Blue-Ball in Arundel Street in the Strand, 1690.

1. The New Canaries
2. A New Jigg
3. A Northern Jigg
4. Mr. Banister's Jigg, or, The Altitudes
5. A Jigg, divided twelve ways
6. Inner Temple Jigg
7. Middle Temple Jigg
8. Lincolns-Inn Jigg
9. Grays-Inn Jigg
10. Wat's Jigg (?)
11. The dance in the Play of Macbeth
12. A Theatre Jigg
13. Parthenia
14. The Simerons Jigg
15. The Dancing Horse
16. A Theatre Tune
17. The Opera
18. The Earl of Sandwich's Farewel
19. Captain Digby's Farewel, or, Carman's Whistle
20. A Theatre Dance
21. Captain Hollis's Farewel
22. The Hobby-horse Dance
23. The Gun-Fleet
24. The Prince of Orange's Delight
25. Mr. Farmer's Magot
26. Come Boys fill us, &c.
27. Sawney
28. Fy, nay, prithee John!
29. Philander
30. A Scotch Tune
31. A Scotch Tune
32. A Minuet
33. A Theatre Tune
34. A Round O
35. A Theatre Tune
36. A Theatre Tune
37. A Theatre Tune
38. Minuet
39. Bread of Gad
40. Young Jemmy
41. Could Man his Wish Obtain
42. Old Simon the King
43. A Horn-pipe
44. A Theatre new Tune
45. A New Scotch Tune
46. The Tune of Farrinel's Ground, to the Song of ( All Joy to Great Caesar)
47. Where would coy Aminta run?
48. Jenny, come tye my Cravat
49. Now the Tories, &c., or, Royal James
50. State and Ambition
51. The Gold-ring, a Theatre new Song Tune
52. The Knot
53. Ham House, or Cherry Garden
54. The King of Poland
55. The Mug-house
56. Prince George's March
57. Duke of Grafton's March
58. A Minuet
59. The Scotch-man's Dance in The Norther Lass
60. A Passingalia
61. New Seranade
62. Duke of Bucelugh's Tune
63. A Minuet
64. Kingsale; a new Tune
65. Hedge-Lane
66. To bed we'l go
67. A Scotch Horn-pipe
68. The Shoe-maker, a Scotch Tune
69. A Scotch Tune
70. A Scotch Tune

The Second Part of Apollo's Banquet, containing several new Tunes of French Dances for the Treble-Violin and Flute, performed at Court, and in Dancing-Schools
1. An Entry
2. Saraband
3. La Beauford
4. Saraband
5. Saraband
6. The Galliard
7. Corant: Sen. Baptist
8. Minuet Dolphin
9. Bore Versaille
10. New Bore Versaille
11. Bore Angletar
12. Bore Portuguese
13. Bore Madam
14. La Princess Royal
15. La Fountainbleau
16. La Duchess
17. Minuet Royal
18. Minuet Baptist
19. La Madam
20. Minuet St. Andrew
21. Minuet
22. La Princess Orleance
23. Minute: Round O
24. Corant
25. Minuet
26. Minuet
27. Minuet
28. Corant
29. Corant
30. Paspe
31. New Bore Baptist
32. Minuet        
33. Bore
34. Bore
35. Round O
36. La Bell Princess
37. New la Monmouth
38. Bore Baptist
39. New Provo
40. Corant le Reyne
41. La Modena
42. La Catherine
43. New la Monsieur
44. La Princess
45. La Princess Ann
46. Minuet
47. The New Provo
48. Corant la Grand-Britain
49. La Ben Cavalier
50. New la Dolphin
51. La Prince
52. New la Duchess
53. Bore le Reyne
54. La Buchan
55. La Doncaster
56. New Bore Paspe
57. La Delphie (?)
58. La Monmouth
59. Corant de la Force
60. The Brauls
61. The new Brauls
62. The Brauls, by Monsieur Peasable
63. Corant
64. Bore
65. Saraband
66. Minuet
67. A Seranade
68. A Scotch Tune
69. A Scotch Tune
70. A Scotch Tune
71. A Scotch Tune
72. A Scotch Tune
73. A Scotch Tune
74. A Scotch Tune

The Third part of Apollo's Banquet, containing several of the newest Tunes of Dances for the Treble-Violin and Flute, now in use at Court and in Dancing Schools

1. A New Entry
2. A New Ayre
3. Minuet
4. Long Cold Nights
5. Second Part of Bread of Gad
6. A New Scotch Tune
7. A Scotch Tune by Mr. Dyer
8. A New Scotch Tune
9. A New Scotch Tune
10. The Northern Lass
11. The Banditti; a Round O
12. A Jigg
13. Mr. H. Purcell's Jigg
14. London Ladies
15. In a Desart in Greenland
16. A New Bore
17. Hampton-Court
18. A Farewel
19. Minuet
20. Paspe
21. The Ann
22. Corant
23. Bore
24. The Princess
25. Minuet
26. Tricatrees
27. Minuet
28. A New French Dance
29. A New French Dance
30. Minuet
31. Minuet
32. Rigadoon
33. An Entry
34. Minuet
35. Minuet
36. Paspe
37. Bore
38. Minuet
39. Minuet
40. An Entry
41. Minuet
42. A New Italian Ground
43. Tom Morecock
44. Mr. Mountfort's Delight
45. Lilli Burlero
46. A new Tune
47. Cesacho's Farewel
48. An English March, by Mr. Akeroyde
49. Horn-pipe
50. Horn-pipe
51. Why is your faithful Slave disdain'd
63. Medburn's March
64. Clowns Dance
65. Vulcan's Dance
60. I Often for my Jenny strove
61. A New Rigadoon
62. Minuet
52. The Emperour of the Moon
53. A New Tune
66. Clowns Dance
67. Round O
68. A New Tune
57. Fairest Work of happy Nature
58. Sabina in the dead of Night
59. Sylvia now your Scorn give over
54. A New Posture Dance in Dr. Faustus
55. A Scotch Minuet
56. How quick a Wit
69. A New Theatre Tune
70. A new Tune
71. Round O

Apollo's Banquet: containing variety of the newest tunes, Ayres, Jiggs, and Minuets, for the Treble-Violin, now in use at publick theatres, and ad dancing-schools, being most of them within the compass of both of the flute, and flagelet, to which is added some new songs and catches. The Second Book. In the Savoy: Printed by E. Jones, for Henry Playford, and are to be sold at his shop near the Temple Church, and at his house over against the Blue-Ball in Arundel-Street in the Strand, 1691.

A new Catch.

Choice New Tunes, Ayres, Jiggs, for the Treble-Violin.

1. A New Warlike Tune of Mr. Courteville's
2. A New Playhouse Tune of Mr. Montfort's
3. Oh! how happy's he!
4. A New Scotch Tune of Mr. Courteville's
5. A Minuet
6. Valiant Jockey
7. A New Playhouse Scotch Tune of Mr. Montfort's
8. A Minuet
9. Celia, that I once was Bless'd
10. For Iris I sigh
11. A Scotch Tune
12. The first Ayre of Mr. Finger's
13. The second Ayre of Mr. Finger's
14. The third Ayre of Mr. Finger's
15. The Sages of old, in Prophecy told
16. A Minuet
17. A Round O of Mr. Tollett's
18. An Ayre of Mr. Tollett's
19. A Minuet
20. A Minuet
21. A Round O.
22. An Entry of Mr. Frank's
23. A Minuet of Mr. Frank's
24. Mr Purcell's Scotch Tune in Aphitrion
25. Mr. Purcell's Tune in Amphitrion
26. A Tune of Mr. Purcell's in Amphitrion
27. A Tune of Mr. Purcell's in Amphitrion
28. A Tune of Mr. Purcell's in Amphitrion
29. A Round O of Mr. Peasable's
30. A Paspe of Mr. Peasable's
31. An Ayre
32. A Boree
33. A Paspe
34. The City Ramble
35. An Ayre of Mr. Courtiville's
36. An Entry of Mr. Courtiville's
37. A Trumpet Tune
38. A New Trumpet Tune of Mr. Keller's
39. A New Tune of Mr. Keller's
40. A Round O of Mr. Keller's
41. A New Trumpet Tune
42. An Ayre of Mr. King's
43. Make your Honours, Miss
44. A Minuet of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money
45. A Minuet of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money
46. A New Tune of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money
47. A Tune of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money
48. A New Theatre Tune of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money, or the Boarding-School
49. A New Theatre Tune of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money
50. A New Theatre Tune of Mr. Tollett's in the Play of Love for Money
51. A New Round O
52. A New Tune
53. A New Theatre Tune of Mr. Purcell's
54. A New Tune of Mr. Purcell's
55. A New Hornpipe of Mr. Purcell's
56. A New Theatre Tune of Mr. Purcell's
57. A New Tune of Mr Purcell's
58. A New Trumpet Tune of Mr. Courtiville's
59. A New Minuet of Mr. Courtiville's
60. A New Tune of Mr. Montfort's in the Play of The Greenwich Park
61. A New Tune of Mr. Montfort's in the Play of The Greenwich Park
62. A New Scotch Tune of Mr. Montfort's in the Play of THe Greenwich Park
63. A New Tune of Mr. Montfort's in the Play of The Greenwich Park
64. A New Tune of Mr. Montfort's in the Play of The Greenwich Park
65. A Dance in the Play of All in COnfusion
66. Mr. Tollett's Clowns Jigg
67. Budro, an Irish Dance
68. A New Saraband of Mr. Banister's with the Ground-Bass
69. A New Boree of Mr. Banister's
70. A New Hornpipe
71. A Minuet
72. A new Song, set by Mr. Barrincloe
73. A new Catch in the Play of The Knight of Malta. Set by Mr. Henry Purcell
74. A new Song. Set by Mr. Montfort.
75. Bacchus's Health: To be Sung by all the Company together, with Directions to be Observed.

A New Addition to the Second Book of Apollo's Banquet
1. A Dance in the Play of the Boarding-School
2. A Tune in the Boarding-School
3. A New Dance
4. What shall I do, &c.
5. Fairest Ille, &c. [This and the four following Tunes in the Opera of King Arthur]
6. We've cheated the Parson
7. Come if you dare
8. How blest are Shepherds
9. Thou doating Fool
10. A New Scotch Tune in The Wife's Excuse
11. Still I'm wishing, &c.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:48 PM

Well done sir!

All I can suggest is that if the tune that some call 'the bear dance' is in that lot - it's called something else by title... :-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 09:19 PM

Has anyone heard the "Bear Dance" that is the 2nd movement of Bela Bartok's Sonatina on Themes from Transylvania?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 09:23 PM

OK, I just found it here. While it's possible that the Flemish Bear Dance was inspired by the Bartok piece, the two aren't the same.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 04:01 AM

Nevertheless, the original questioner presumably got from somewhere the impression that Apollo's Banquet featured a 'Bear's Dance' (though not, as I have had to repeat for the benefit of contributors to this thread who were eager to say their piece but less keen to read what had already been said, one in any way related to the Flemish tune popular in modern pub sessions); and the recording I provided a link to earlier on is from a cd that includes eight tunes purportedly from that collection: see English Country Dances for a listing.

Of those eight, only two are named in your interesting transcription of the contents of the 1690/91 edition (the sixth, according to Claude M Simpson). Presumably, either the compilers of the Harmonia Mundi cd were in error, or they used a different edition; several survive. 1670, 1687, 1693 and 1701, I gather, beside the one you have seen and the supplements to the Dancing Master on which they were based. From such information as is provided, it appears that the tunes in their list but not in yours may have been from the 1670 edition. Perhaps they had been dropped by 1690, or perhaps there is some other explanation.

The Bartók piece does actually echo the Flemish tune in some respects. Is there any compelling reason to think that the latter is a recent composition, beyond the fact that we still have very little information about it?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 05:56 AM

The tune was very popular among revivalists in Belgium and the Netherlands from the early seventies onward, I think it was the recording by the group Rum that brought it into wider circulation (they also seem to have started of the run of 'La Partida' during the mid 80s and it is still continuing). There is a possibility there was a previous recording by Herman DeWitt and 'Het Kliekske' but I am not certain about that now. Certainly groups like 'King's Galliard' and others that were quite popular at the time ran with it. All seemed to add their own second part to it though. The story that went with it usually involved gypsies and dancing bears. The bears being trained by putting them on a metal sheet that was slowly heated while the tune was being played, when the metal got hot they started 'dancing'. In true Pavlovian way they'd eventually react to just hearing the tune and perform.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:23 AM

That the CD is named Apollo's Banquet doesn't mean that every tune on it is taken from one of the books of that name. I assume that the makers of the CD got the Bear's Dance from one of the numerous Playford publications. We just don't know which one, yet.

As noted above, barentanz or bärentanz is a generic term referring to art-music written in imitation of what the composer thinks is peasant music. Besides the Bartok piece already noted, there is one in Robert Schumann's Album for the Young/Album für die Jungend. I think there may be others. But unless the Bear Dance that is the subject of this thread can be identified with one of these, I'll continue to hold as my working hypothesis that the Flemish Bear Dance was written in the 1970s.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:35 AM

Would be interesting to know where the producers of the English Heritage CD got their information from and, how reliable their source is, if they are presenting it as mediaeval.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 09:14 AM

Sadly, I must mention the SCA. A tune by that name (but I don't know what musuical tune relation to the one you are discussing) became popular and spread like a virus...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 09:34 AM

I have found a PDF of the tune used by the SCA at

http://rowany.sca.org.au/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=68&func=fileinfo&id=48

I have no idea just how relevant or useful this is... please say so if it is not...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 03:29 PM

As the information in the link I provided makes clear, there are eight tunes on the Harmonia Mundi recording, including 'Bear's Dance', which are listed specifically as deriving from Apollo's Banquet. Notional dates are also given. Presumably the details are taken from sleeve notes.

It would seem that 'T' hadn't read that page (which I did not quote idly) when he made his most recent comment, but in any case the matter is settled by the EASMES index at http://www.colonialdancing.org/Easmes/, which lists 'Bear's Dance' as appearing in Apollo's Banquet, first edition, 1670, page 18 (ref. New York Public Library, Drexel 5614). I don't know why I didn't think to check there earlier, particularly as the contents of all surviving editions turn out to be listed. All too easy to forget what a very useful resource that site is.

There is also a 'Beares dance' in the Margaret Board Lute Book (c1620-1635), but that isn't necessarily the same tune.

Now that side-issue is dealt with, we might return to the 'Bear Dance' of the thread title. The SCA pdf is the usual session tune, though considerably slower than typically played in the UK.

'Tootler': what English Heritage cd are you referring to? Is it the Flemish 'Bear Dance' that is described as mediaeval, or the Playford tune? Obviously such a description would be wrong (or at least unproveable) in either case, but we need the precise details so that they can be dealt with.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 06:30 PM

Malcolm Douglas wrote:

As the information in the link I provided makes clear, there are eight tunes on the Harmonia Mundi recording, including 'Bear's Dance', which are listed specifically as deriving from Apollo's Banquet. Notional dates are also given. Presumably the details are taken from sleeve notes.

This is false. Malcolm Douglas provided two links before today: This one brings up a largely empty page--no title, no image, no tracks, no sleeve notes-- and this one brings up a page containing no dates, and four sources: Musick's Delight on the Cithren, The Division Violin, The Dancing Master, and Apollo's Banquet.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:23 PM

to Malcolm Douglas.

The English Heritage CD is called "Music to Make Merrie" and the Bear Dance tune is the Flemish one.

That's all I can tell you just now as the actual CD is downstairs and it is after midnight so I will check the CD tomorrow and try and get a quote from the sleeve notes.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:50 PM

I have the EH CD here. All it says is "Two traditional dance tunes on this recording, the English Dance and The Bear Dance, are very different in style." It goes on to discuss the styles in which they are performed. It gives no source or date for either dance.

The "English Dance" in question is the medieval one from the Bodleian Douce manuscript.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 03:54 AM

Thanks for the cd details. Since no claim after all is made for either source or age of the tune (the 'mediaeval' reference mentioned earlier being presumably the result of a misreading of the brief notes), we can safely forget about that recording. English Heritage certainly seems to have done; I find, so far, no references to it anywhere.

I must apologise for the incomplete link to that record site. For technical reasons, I was obliged to access it on one computer and type the URL on the other, and evidently I omitted a crucial 'pid='; I plead tiredness. However, the relevant page can be found easily enough from the default page the link I typed actually led to: only a little ingenuity is needed. Type 'apollo's banquet' into their little search box, and the required link will be forthcoming. The information given is as I described it, and the full link is http://www.hbdirect.com/album_detail.php?pid=465851.

My earlier link to Amazon was merely to a sound sample; I made no other claim for it.

Did you look at the indexes at EASMES? As I said, they settle the Apollo's Banquet question comprehensively enough, and will no doubt furnish you with plenty of interesting information besides.

The link to EASMES goes to their front page, which is the best place to start. However, in case anyone should be perplexed by the necessity of navigating around an unfamiliar website in a frameset, here are direct links to the Apollo's Banquet indexes:

Table of Contents - Apollo's Banquet 1-1, 1670
Table of Contents - Apollo's Banquet 1-2, 1678
Table of Contents - Apollo's Banquet 1-5, 1687
Table of Contents - Apollo's Banquet 1-6, 1690
Apollo's Banquet 1-7, 1693
Table of Contents - Apollo's Banquet 1-8, 1701
Table of Contents - Apollo's Banquet 2, 1691

I really think that we might usefully consider that part of the discussion to be over now.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mick Tems
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 04:57 AM

Dirk and Liesbeth De Coninck-Stryckers have sent me the Flemish Bear Dance (Barentanz), which, going back to Crowdercref's original query, is the same dance. Both are members of an Antwerp dance team and have studied the dance very carefully. Liesbeth says this is a children's dance. The melody, while similar, deviates from the 70s tune most strikingly.

THE STEPS:

Start in a circle of a (non-defined) amount of dancers
steps to use: walking steps

description of the dance:

introduction (music)

refrain: 16 walking steps clockwise, while stamping left's foot.
Then 16 walking steps in the other direction, while stamping left's foot.

               All the time: give hands

1st figure: (no giving-hands): 16 jumps on the left foot, while stretching the right leg so it's not touching the ground

Refrain + 1st fig. +

2nd figure:          16 jumps on both feet, forward and back, clapping hands every time you jump forward

Refrain + 1st fig. + 2nd +

3rd figure: sit on your left knee and bounce 16 times softly with the music

Refrain + 1st fig. + 2nd + 3rd +
4th figure:          Sit on both knees and jump softly so the knees rise from the ground 8 times.

Refrain + 1st fig. + 2nd + 3rd + 4th +
5th figure:          slam the left hand on the ground 16 times (you still sit on your knees – 4th figure)

Refrain + 1st fig. + 2nd + 3rd + 4th + 5th +
6th figure:          slam both hands on the ground, following the rhythm of the music.

Refrain + 1st fig. + 2nd + 3rd + 4th + 5th + 6th +
7th figure: softly knock your head on the ground

Final chord: make a somersault


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Mick Tems
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 09:42 AM

As I was saying, it is the same Flemish Bear Dance (Barentanz) as we played at the Pontardawe Festival, and Les Jones was the caller. We took the tune from Pyewackett, and I have only just received the original tune from Dirk and Liesbeth. It is the same tune, but with several deviations to it.

In my haste to post the steps of the dance, I should have said that this is Liesbeth's notation. I rang Les when all this interest in the Bear Dance blew up, and while he was delighted to be in touch with me, he confessed he had totally forgotten it!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: Jacob B
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 09:45 AM

That dance description bears a pronounced resemblance to the Danish dance Seven Jumps.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Bear Dance
From: T in Oklahoma (Okiemockbird)
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 10:54 PM

I wrote above that there is a Bear Dance in Schumann's Album for the Young. It turns out it's a bit more complicated. The Album as first published did not have a piece by that name. In one of Schumann's manuscript worksheets for the Album there is a piece by that name, however, and it is included in an appendix in at least one modern edition: the Viener Urtext Edition of 1979.

This isn't the only Bärentanz Schumann wrote. Part of another one can be heard here.


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