Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!

Subject: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 01:37 PM

OK, so I was at the Women's Center in the mean part of town until past eleven last night, setting up a Windows Vista computer I donated. The first matter of business was about three hours setting up QuickBooks, which had a corrupted database on our bookkeeper's previous computer. Once that was solved, I tried to get her connected to the Internet.

Our wireless network was set up by the boyfriend or brother or something of one of our college interns. It was an unsecured network, and I found out last week that the Outside World had access to our QuickBooks files, and just about everything else. So, I changed it to a secure network with a WEP key. All this went quite smoothly, since I've done it before at home. One computer with a USB wireless card and Windows XP and McAfee hooked in perfectly. The new computer has Windows Vista and a PCI wireless card I installed, and I had no problem getting it to connect to the wireless network. Trouble is, now that it's connected, I can't get Internet service thorugh the connection. There's an unsecure wireless network somewhere in the neighborhood and I can get Internet through that, but I think I'd rather connect to our own connection, dontyouthink?

Advice, anyone?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 01:57 PM

You know what I would say ahead of time, Joe, so I won't say it.



A

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 02:28 PM

Have you tried right clicking on the network icon at the bottom right of the screen and using "diagnose and repair"?

If you say the network is connecting, perhaps it's a firewall issue preventing Internet access.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:27 PM

But a firewall where?
I can connect to our wireless network with the XP computer and get Internet. With the Windows Wista computer, I can connect to an unsecured network and get Internet. The Vista computer sees our wireless network as "unidentified, even though it will connect with the network key and does see the name of our network.
So, Amos, what was it you were going to say, that if I had all Macs, I wouldn't have this problem, even if the Macs were ten years old? Or should I tell the interns to dump their boyfriends, brothers, or whatever?
One suspicion is that my wireless router is old, and may or may not work better with firmware updates. This page (click) shows there are several firmware upgrades for this Netgear router, although nothing recent. Do I need to run them all, or only the most recent one?
So, if I were to hire the Geek Squad or somebody else to fix this network and QuickBooks and whatnot, could they really do the job any better than I can? How?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:49 PM

Sorry Joe, I'd missed Vista connected to an other network. Firewall seems less likely but Vista has one and your router probably has one.

Re the firmware, you just need the latest one but read thier documentation on recovery before attempting the firmware update.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:49 PM

Also, how can I "see" the computers that are connected to this wireless network? I can use a browser go into the IP address of the Netgear router and see the three hardwired computers and the one wireless connection that works. Although the Window Vista computer says it had a "local" connection to that wireless network (and the key works and all that), it doesn't have Internet and it can't be "seen" on the wireless router.

This firmware solution seems like it might work, but my question remains whether I need to run all previous versions of firmware, or just the latest one -and I can't try anything until I drive to Sacramento again, which I don't want to do until next week...

What if I were to have the bookkeeper connect to the unsecured network that's running in the neighborhood (I suspect in the apartment building next door)? What risks do I incur? Will there be a scandal if the world finds out the nuns at the Women's Center are hijacking the neighbors' Internet connection?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 03:58 PM

I use your method to see and on mine (wired Netgear DG834 but there is an wireless accesss in the system), if it didn't show up in "Attached devices") I'd take it not to be connected even if the computer claimed otherwise.

I think I'm stuck btw. On Vista when things haven't worked, diagnose and repair have got me out... and finding programs to change settings seem harder to find on Vista

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:10 PM

So, Jon, what do you think? Will a new router do the trick, or just give me new problems?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:14 PM

Vista has some strange new security foibles that I haven't sorted out completely. On rumor (unconfirmed) is that it will refuse to admit the presence of other computers - and/or the inernet if other computers share the access - unless passwords are assigned to administrator account(s) and to at least one user account on the Vista machine. It is not clear (i.e. Microsoft doesn't comment) whether similar passwords are required for other machines on the shared connections. It appears that it may either share drives or connect, but not both, without the "proper" password/user assignments. Microsoft gives NO HELP.

In order for several "connected" computers to share the internet connection, the connection usually can be set up on one computer and the others will "discover it." This may not work if the Vista computer has already "found" other local computers. (Unconfirmed again, although I find lots of advertisements that say everything works automatically).

The recommendations I got for my wired (ethernet) LAN was to set up one computer to connect to the internet via the router and then connect all the others to the interent. After the internet connection was made one of the computers on the local network must "create a local network." Each of the other computers on the local network then needs to "join" the network.

Some wireless info indicates a reverse procedure, where the wireless network must be created before establishing the internet connection - but that was pre-Vista.

At present, all four of my computers can get on the internet and can receive email. One of the three WinXP computers can access shared drives on the other two WinXP computers, and sometimes can connect to the shared drive on the Vista. One other WinXP can see the other WinXP shared resources but NEVER the Vista. One of the WinXPs can't see anything but it's own dumb drive. The Vista can't connect to anything but the internet.

I'm on about page 80 (of 680) in my new O'Reilly manual, but making slow progress. Ask again in about a year - maybe - if I still have the Vista machine.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 04:16 PM

If it was me Joe, I'd suspect Vista at present but I'd recommend getting advise from someone other than me first.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM

Joe. I've just had a look at the firmware upgrade and it says it fixes a DNS problem. From a command prompt, try:

ping 66.249.93.147
ping www.google.com

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 06:31 PM

A lot of times, problems with the internet connection will work themselves out if you reset the cable modem, which you can usually do by:

1) turning it off,
2)disconnecting your network,

a)unplugging the power cord from the modem,
b)holding the on/off button on it for a minute or so,
c)then plugging everything back in and turning it on.


(Somwhere in this, one ought to nonchalantly check to make sure the all the components are properly wired, and that the ethernet cables are the right sort of cables, going into the right places.)

If this doesn't work, call the techies at your internet provider and make sure your service is working, that will be a bit --if it is, and they can do nothing more, call the Netgear techies--and make sure you've got the smart wizard installation cd, because they will likely talk you through a set-up.


One thing to consider is that, rather than using WEP, you can simply program the router with the MAC addresses of the devices in your network--

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 07:01 PM

Last last night, one of the things I was trying to do was figure out how to find the MAC address of the PCI wireless card. One source said it was printed on the card - but there has to be an easier way to find it - right? I tried looking for the one on my computer in Device Manager, but don't see it there. I found the MAC addresses for all the devices that are properly connected to the network at the Women's Center - but not for the one I need to connect. Catch 22, eh?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 08:04 PM

command line again, Joe. Try

ipconfig /all

The physical address is the mac address.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 08:12 PM

Well, it comes up, Jon - but the DOS window disappears too quickly to read. What am I doing wrong?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 08:28 PM

Try the command line

ipconfig /all > filename.ext

The > USED TO (don't ask me about Vista!) redirect the output to a file...

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:12 PM

I'd open a command prompt window - should be in "all programs"/accessories - and type the commands in that. In Vista, you can scroll up and down the output in the window.

Also, Foolestroupe's way will work and is handy if there is a lot of output. Yet another way would be to do this:

ipconfig /all | more

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: artbrooks
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:35 PM

Call the Geek Squad (is that Circuit City by you?) and talk them into coming out to the Womens' Center and fixing the network as a public (ie, tax deductible) service? My Vista laptop connected to the wireless network hardwired into the XP desktop just fine - by accident, I'm sure. I did it through the network setup process involving copying the network settings onto a removable drive and then moving them onto the laptop that way. Neither one "sees" the contents of the drives on the other, however.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:47 PM

Joe -

If you just type the ipconfig /all command in the run box (there are actually about 4 boxes you can use in Vista) the command window opens but closes immediately when the command finishes executing, so you don't get a chance to read the result.

Start|Run, type "command" in the box and hit Enter (or click OK) to open a "command window" (formerly called a DOS window, and now called by at least 7 or 8 different things in Vista - but all doing the same thing). In the DOS window, type the ipconfig /all and you'll see the result.

And remember that the "command" to close the "command window" is "Exit."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 09:53 PM

"remember that the "command" to close the "command window" is "Exit.""

Or just click on the close window button... sorry that Win9x command doesn't exist/work in Vista?


:-P

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 10:38 PM

Actually, Foolestroupe, the "X" (Close window) button does work, but Windows since Win98 will tell you that "that's not the right way to do it," so you still have to click another response to tell it that you really do want to close the window. It's a lot easier (IMO) to just type "Exit."

You're probably even old enough to remember when people would get into OS-BASIC and couldn't figure out how to get out. Or do you even remember the "magic word" for that?

The change in Vista is that several "search boxes" can be used identically to the "Run" box, to insert any "runnable command."

If you type a file name, the default program may be selected to open the file. (It may open the file, when you only meant to find the ^$%#!#@$! thing, and you still won't know where it is.)

If you type a legal "command line" input, the command (DOS) window will open and the command will run, but the window closes immediately when the command finishes running.

In Vista you supposedly can type "command" in any of several different integral-to-Vista search and/or input boxes and a command window will open - or at least that's what the book says.

Unfortunately, the several differently named boxes are not all of the differently named boxes so there are some boxes where it doesn't work too. So far I count about 3 functionally different boxes used with at least 11 different names.

See how much simpler Vista is, compared to that old junk you're using?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 04:59 AM

Joe

It isn't clear that your Vista system is connected to the network at all.

The first thing to do is establish you can talk Vista <-> router.

in a cmd window type ipconfig/all
the router address is the on for Default Gateway (my router is 192.168.1.1)
in a cmd window type ping 192.168.1.1 (replace with your router address)

You should get
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=64
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=64

So yes we have a connection to the router. If this doesn't work, check you have the correct WEP key on the Vista box, or suspect firewall on Vista

Now try something on the internet -- mudcat.org is good, but lets try with the IP address first

ping 71.162.244.125

You should get
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=113
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=113
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=113
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=113

Lets add DNS lookup in and see if it works

ping www.mudcat.org

Pinging www.mudcat.org [71.162.244.125] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=104ms TTL=113
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=102ms TTL=113
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=103ms TTL=113
Reply from 71.162.244.125: bytes=32 time=105ms TTL=113

If this doesn't work then there is a problem with DNS access

If this all work we have access to the internet. Does it work in the browser?

In your browser try typing 71.162.244.125
You should get a page with just
Hi. Something went wrong if your reading this. Good luck.

If you don't there maybe a firewall allowing ICMP (ping uses) but not TCP that http uses.

Now try www.mudcat.org
Does it work? It better.

Hope this helps.

Simon

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: pavane
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 06:02 AM

I am sure the problem is in VISTA

I have been trying, with the help of two knowledgeable sons, to set up a simple network , with just a crossover cable, between two laptops, one running XP and one running VISTA.

After several hours work, including disabling firewalls, sharing drives etc, and starting from PING, it was possible to see some of the VISTA drives from the XP, but not the other way round, except seemingly at random, after a reboot.

But both work OK on the wireless router to the Internet, so I have resigned myself to using the modern version of sneaker-net (i.e. USB sticks).

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 02:06 PM

Pavane -

I have a very similar setup problem, with three WinXP machines and one WinMeII (excuse me: Vista). The Vista machine is uncooperative.

Vague comments from persons-not-necessarily-capable have implied that Vista can't view "network files/folders" (i.e. shared resources on other computers) unless the Vista machine has full-blown account password setups, including a master Administrator account and at least one user account.

I've been reluctant to experiment, as it can be very difficult to remove a password/account setup if you mess it up, and I'd like to keep things as simple as possible. I've got the book, but I'm not under urgent pressure to get the Vista machine hooked up, and I expect several months of study before any real answers come out of it.

Meanwhile, for enterprise businesses WinMeII penetration has reached a whopping 6%, barely topping Macs (who tripled their penetration in enterprise use this year), with virtually all new installations of Vista coming from Win2K. Virtually NOBODY in professional IT management is moving from WinXP machines to Vista.

(WinXP remains at about 89% for enterprise - large corporate - users.)

My standard for a new system is that I should easily be able to move to the same level of competence/capability as with the previous system. If your competence was low enough, Vista and Office 2007 are great. I'm finding them "difficult."

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 05:29 PM

I fried the CPU on my laptop a few months ago, called an "overnight" repair service, and got my laptop back a month later. Lotsa stuff didn't work, so it had to go back into the shop a couple of times. Then, I found that I couldn't get onto the net through my wireless hook-up. Called 'em again and they send a techie out. He piddle with the laptop for a couple of minutes, then asked me if I had the necessary codes.

A friend (who has written books on wireless systems) had set the wireless system up for my wife and me in the first place, and when he finished, he gave me a whole list of passwords and code numbers, which I wrote down in a notebook. He admonished me, "Don't lose this!" So I filed it away carefully.

When the techie asked for the codes, I sez, "Just a sec," and dove into a desk drawer. By the time I came up with the notebook and started to hand it to him, he said, "That's okay, I don't need it now. I hacked into it."

Really makes ya wonder! I guess stone walls, drawbridges, and moats just ain't what they used to be.

####

From everything I've heard so far about Vista, I'm sticking with WinXP!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 06:47 PM

"I am sure the problem is in VISTA"

This is destined to become part of those sayings called "Famous Last Words", I am sure.... :-P

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Apr 08 - 09:24 PM

Science fiction writer Jerry Pournelle was into computers early on, and had a regular column in Byte Magazine for years. Recently on his blog, he detailed some of the problems he's been having with his computer lately, particularly its refusing to recognize a number of peripherals. He says he's thinking seriously of switching to a Mac. He ends his article with

"Vista really sucks!"

I'm afraid he's come up with a mantra for the future.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 05:33 AM

My standard for a new system is that I should easily be able to move to the same level of competence/capability as with the previous system. If your competence was low enough, Vista and Office 2007 are great. I'm finding them "difficult."

OT but John, you may be interested in this article regarding the MS (I believe now ISO std!) OOXML.

One bit that particularly caught my eye was a difference in approach by this and ODF for some simple formatting:

  MS OOXML Way
  Format             Text Color                                         Text Alignment
  OOXML Text         <w:color w:val="FF0000"/>                          <w:jc w:val="right"/>
  OOXML Sheet        <color rgb="FFFF0000"/>                            <alignment horizontal="right"/>
  OOXML Presentation <a:srgbClr val="FF0000"/>                          <a:pPr algn="r"/>
  
  ODF Way
  ODF Text           <style:text-properties fo:color="#FF0000"/>        <style:paragraph-properties fo:text-align="end" />
  ODF Sheet          <style:text-properties fo:color="#FF0000"/>        <style:paragraph-properties fo:text-align="end" />
  ODF Presentation   <style:text-properties fo:color="#FF0000"/>        <style:paragraph-properties fo:text-align="end" />
  

One seems consistent between document types. The other, I'll leave to you...

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: pavane
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 05:36 AM

Thanks John, I will run that past my son (who studied Internet Engineering to degree level). he uses LINUX on his own machine, though.

On my desktops, I am still using WIN98 and WIN95. Unfortunately, laptops seem less robust. I lost two so far with motherboard problems which made repair uneconomic. On a desktop, I could just replace it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 08:59 AM

Users of Win9X Unite!

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 10:34 AM

out of curiosity, would there still be these problems with a wired network? I'm sure it is nice to just plug in a few things, set some switches, and have several computers connected with no wires, but wow! what hassles.

I have seen systems that work thru the building wiring, wonder if that 'might' be easier.
I ask because I have a house that has concrete floors with both steel beams and pipes for radiant heat embedded and I have doubts that wireless will work to get signals from the upper to the lower level, traveling at an angle thru 40 ft. of interference.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 01:52 PM

Hi, Bill-
I had no problem connecting the Vista computer to the wired network (or to the unknown neighbor's wireless network). When I moved it to the secretary's office and tried to make a wireless connection, that's when my troubles started.
So, I'm hoping this thread will come up with a solution so I can go back Monday and set everything right. In the meantime, I'm at Point Reyes National Seashore north of San Francisco. We saw eight whales yesterday, a perfect sunset, and lots of wildflowers. Life is good, despite the damn network.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 02:06 PM

Bill D

I had no particular problems getting my ethernet setup onto a wired Linksys router and AT&T DSL, except that wireless is so popular that everything is written assuming that you're doing wireless.

Example: The Linksys downloadable "Installation Wizard," downloaded from their very tiny web section on "wired routers for those stupid enough to use one," (I don't recall the exact name of the page) opens with "enter the network name for your wireless network" and refuses to proceed until you put something in.

Linksys does not publish a support telephone number, so when the AT&T support guys gave up, they gave me a phone number for Linksys. Linksys "remotely configured" my router to enable a change that had to be made by AT&T (to their server setup) when I called them back. AT&T then sent me back to Linksys for completion of the setup. All quite painlessly, and in only about 5 hours on the phone. (I installed a new phone with speaker capability at my computer desk immediately after this.)

This was all after the connection had worked for a month, but suddenly quit. (And the Vista laptop has internet, but still can't see or be seen by any of my other three machines. No big deal, since I've got a couple of swappable external hard drives for sneaker net.)

The commonly stated "maximum length" for ethernet cables (latest improved specs, not the old cheap stuff) is about 60 feet, if I recall what I read a few months back, so even wiring your house may tax a simple system, if you follow the walls. Consider a "central location" for the router and net hookup jack, maybe, to keep individual runs as short as possible.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 06:51 PM

Win 9x usually works OK. I have updated and have a couple of XP machines and they are not too bad. I have had 95, 98SE, Me and XP machines all talking to each other and accessing the internet happily - but I have no intention of going to Vista and I only use XP under sufferance. I have to ahve one XP machine on the network as my big external drive refuses to talk to 9x using USB2.

Can you get an XP disc and change the Vista machine to XP?

I would not use a wireless network. Too slow and insecure. If it's not convenient to run CAT5 cable, use a gadget that runs the network through your mains cable. About twice as fast as wireless, and a million times more secure.

A new router is about GPB 30.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 06:59 PM

I would not use a wireless network.

I do at home for my laptop which I sometimes (not often but I do) "roam" with. I don't like the mains cable option and fear it might conflict with X10 (home automation) switches here and, the reliability of which does make me doubt and other mains cable systems.

Certainly though, I do favour "proper" wiring where possible and have wired access points for the laptop in my room and the living room - actually took the wire outside the house as the easiest means of achieving the latter.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:07 PM

Indeed...the biggest problem with my house IS that the floors & walls are solid concrete and block. Running wires takes some creativity. Cable TV went into the attic, then back down thru closets.....but to get downstairs, I also went outside the house.

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:08 PM

Oh, and Joe...I have been to Point Reyes...beautiful! And you can see the San Andreas fault there!

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 03:32 PM

Bill D -

A recent article on "Femtocells: New devices boost home cell coverage" might be of interest.

The problem of reception inside the Faraday cage of many building structures is getting some attention. Unfortunately the technology is "pending" for any widespread use.

We're told that wireless home networks can be "just as safe" as wired ones; but they don't automatically come that way, and extra steps are needed - and often omitted - to make them safe after the basic connectivity is set up. I'm afraid I've been too lazy to really look into the wireless ethnos, but the article might be helpful if you have enough inertia to evade changing the setup you want for a year or two. ... (?)

Bill Gates is quoted as saying the the "next Windows" (Windows 7) will be out within a year (he probably means first beta), and will solve all of everybody's problems. It seems the keyboard and mouse will be obsolete, and you'll just "lay hands on" the table top for all your computing. I'm looking for a report on whether specialized incense and candles are needed or if generic ones will suffice. Cornering the market early, if specialized ones are needed, might be a good move(?).

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: pavane
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:12 AM

Are exorcists cheaper than Windows technicians? And what is the psychic equivalent of a bug? (In the war, I believe they had gremlins)

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:38 AM

I had a recent loss of internet connection on all computers. AT&T sent their "repair guy" out, who switched my DSL input to a different external line, admitted that the line I'd been connected to was down, admitted that the line he hooked me to was "really noisy," but then stated that my house wiring is a bunch of crap and needs to be completely rewired. (They charge $150 minimum to look at anything inside the house, and something like $90/hr to actually do anything.)

He did, fairly willingly, offer some babbling about resets, that after translation I think I've reduced to something "intelligible." (?)

Both your router and your modem have two options.

OPTION 1: RESTART

You can RESTART either by just unplugging the power for long enough to let the internal memory clear, and then reconnect the power.

Instructions from different sources differ on whether the inputs/outputs should be connected when power is re-applied, or whether the device should be powered up and then inputs/outputs connected one at a time to let the device "find the inputs."

OPTION 2: RESET

Both modem and router should have a RESET button. On some, the reset may be done by pressing and holding a "power button." Neither of mine, modem or router, has a power switch, but both have separate reset buttons.

My AT&T guy insists that any time the MODEM is RESET, it is necessary to connect to the server and "log back in." The login may require both your account information and the "Modem Access Code" that should be shown on a label on the modem. The "login address" I've been told to use for the modem is 192.168.1.254, but I don't know if that's a universal address or is just for my AT&T service.

If any of the computers on your router connect, the modem probably doesn't need a RESET, and a RESTART should be tried first.

ADDITIONAL MAYBE:

Individual computers on your system may "remember" settings that, after a problem event may be incorrect. A couple of times AT&T haves recommended, on each computer, open a Command Window and run:

ipconfig/release

followed by:

ipconfig/renew

This allows the individual computer to "re-discover" the correct settings. If one computer on the LAN needs it, you probably should run the release/renew on each of them.

None of this seems applicable to the problem of "WinXP connects and Vista doesn't." It might help in more general cases of modem/router misbehavior.

My SWAG of the Vista problem is that it's coming from "security features" that Vista has and that other OSs don't, but I continue finding only "advertisements without technical content" at Microsoft, including at their previously useful Knowledge Base and at other "Support" places.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:11 PM

Rereading Joe's first post and description of the problem -

Windows versions in the past have been somewhat vague about network setup, connection sharing, and file sharing. With some setups, it is necessary for the individual computer to "join the network" before any connections using the network can be set up and used.

The "network join" may be almost automatic for an usecured network, but once the network is "password protected" it may be necessary to do a specific "add a computer to the network" step, before the connection can be made.

In older Win versions, "add a computer" in Help would get some almost intelligible instruction. With the newspeak used in Vista, you probably have to enter something like "my crotch is chapped and linement doesn't work and I want to change the color of my shorts" to find the applicable information.

Vista (on my version) at Start|Help "Windows Basics" has a long article about "setting up a wireless network," that includes "words about" securing the network. The "method for securing" may not be exactly what you've used, but a little down in the article there is a section called "Adding computers to your network."

A following section purports to cover file sharing in Vista. It does note that with "Vista Starter" you can't share.???

(I found this by accident, using another search term I don't recall; but any search term that doesn't produce a valid result probably takes you to the same starting place in Help, so the one suggested would be just as good as something I found "logical(?).")

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Blankety-Blank Wireless Networks!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:53 PM

THREAD DRIFT:

Not specifically related to internet connection, but on the related matter of file sharing between computers on local networks:

After the loss and restore of internet connection due to my cruddy DSL line, one of my WinXP computers was unable to access the other two WinXp ones.

The "error message" is one that I've seen off and on for about ten years, and never found a solution for. There are actually several similar error messages, and most will indicate an "Access Denied." ALL of the applicable error messages will contain something noting "insufficient resources ..." or "insufficient memory ...".

Microsoft claims that this only happens with some obsolete versions of Norton. I can attest that it happens when NO NORTON is involved, and so far as I can tell doesn't occur with any Norton AV sufficiently "modern" to be much help.

For those who'd like to read up on it:

Article ID : 177078 Antivirus software may cause Event ID 2011
Last Review : December 1, 2007

After you install Norton AntiVirus for Windows or IBM AntiVirus 3.01N (Build 301.590), you receive the following error messages:
Not enough server storage is available to process this command.
-and-
Not enough memory to complete transaction. Close some applications and retry.

To resolve this behavior, increase the IRPStackSize value in the registry:

Article ID : 329717: Connectivity Issues Occur After You Install Norton AntiVirus 7.51
Last Review : October 30, 2006
Network clients receive the following error message:
Not enough server storage is available to process this command.

IF YOU HAPPEN TO GET one of the above, or a very similar error message (that includes "memory" or "resources") when trying to access another computer on your Local Network, the instructions for "fixing" the problem are most intelligibly given at:

Article ID : 285089: Description of the IRPStackSize parameter in Windows 2000, in Windows XP, and in Windows Server 2003
Last Review : August 31, 2007

As with most Microsoft articles relating to networking, this one is vague about which computer needs the change. Is it the server or is it the client that gets the error message? It makes no mention of what to do on a "simple network" where there really isn't an identifiable server.

Make the change on the computer that gets the error message, and the problem goes away. (Or at least it did in my case.)

The change requires a regedit, so normal backup and other carefulnesses should be observed. On my machine, the key that needed changing did not exist (blasting away the theory that Norton changed it?) so I had to create the key. Registry keys are "case sensitive" and inadvertent spaces will blow them away, so be sure to follow instructions and type everything exactly as given, if you need to add a key.

In my case, setting the default value "15" was sufficient.

John