BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:04 PM

Raymond Jessup has been found guilty of sexual assault. Click Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:57 AM

I didn't read all of the thread, as it is quite hefty. But gotta say I'm stunned that there is institutional brainwashing, forced marriage, and sexual slavery involving immature girls within some supposed Christian groups in the US. So Margret Atwoods Handmaids Tale isn't a fantasy story set in some dystopian future after all. It's happening right now.

Couldn't give a flying fuck about *Polygamy* between genuinely consenting adults btw. Free love communes, hippies living alternative lifestyles, unconventional relationships between grown people. Because that appears to have thrown some of the key issues of this thread off.

But the *institutional sexual slavery of minors* is really rather terrifying. Thanks for this most depressing thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 10:01 AM

I wonder if, once the gay marriage thing is finally settled, if the polygamists will be next?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: open mike
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 03:44 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YFZ_Ranch
here is the wikipedia entry for YFZ

I just heard an interview with the
creators of the HBO series http://www.hbo.com/biglove/
which features a polygamist "family" , a man with 3 wives,
who live in 3 seperate houses. the show is beginning
its third season.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Love

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: PoppaGator
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 04:30 PM

Significant numbers of "fundamentalist" Mormons ~ polygamists in defiance of the LDS officialdom in Salt Lake City ~ are found well north of Utah, up in Idaho along with all kinds of white supremecists, militiamen, skinheads, survivalists, neoNazis, etc.

The Blue Canadadian Rockies are only a hop skip and jump away from there.

(No offence to any Mudcatters in the Gem State. Are there more than one?)

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Riginslinger
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 04:22 PM

Didn't know they had Latter Day Ain'ts in Canada. Just goes to show how fast they multiply.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Alice
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 09:51 AM

There is news now on the Bountiful group in Canada, and arrests of Winston Blackmore, 52, and James Oler, 44.

" Many of the "brides" in the Canadian sect are 15 and 16-year-old girls from the United States, Shields said.

The legal age of consent in Canada is 16, though it rises to 18 in cases where the other person -- such as Oler or Blackmore -- is an authority figure, Shields said."

Article here: Alleged polygamists arrested in Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Riginslinger
Date: 23 Sep 08 - 07:42 AM

Now they're raiding an evangelical church in Arkansas. This kind of behavior seems to be a byproduct of religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 07:43 PM

Thanks for the links, Q and Emma.

Emma, those kids must've been the younger ones. I remember Carolyn Jessup saying they had dogs at one point, then Jessup decreed they had to get rid of all of them and they were either killed or given away. (The bastard!)Then dogs were not longer allowed in the compound. It is a sad and horrendous thing, either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 12:38 PM

A strangely sad little story from local news radio San Antonio.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 12:35 PM

Hearing on the eight children has been recessed to allow attorneys opportunities to negotiate settlements.

Recess

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 12:12 PM

I see Texas officials want to take back some of the kids because their mothers are not keeping them apart from certain men: Click.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jul 08 - 05:36 PM

Another good article updating the news on this subject is by TIME magazine:
Turning Up the Heat on Polygamists
"..And this week, after going through evidence taken from the Yearning for Zion Ranch, Abbott indicted Warren Jeffs — the "Prophet" of the polygamists — along with four of his followers on charges of first-degree felony sexual assault of a minor..."

"...Sam Brower, a Utah-based private detective who deals with FLDS issues, compares the sect's structure to feudal Europe, when daughters served as pawns in alliances. "If your father-in-law is prominent, this helps with business dealings — maybe you have another wife and then you have daughters that you can place with other church members,"

CLICK HERE FOR ARTICLE AT TIME.COM

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jul 08 - 02:08 PM

http://www.gosanangelo.com, July 24, 2008

More FLDS Indictments Likely.

Jeffs, already in prison in AZ, was indicted for sexual assault of a child by the Schleicher Grand Jury. Five others were indicted on a mix of sexual assault, bigamy and failure to report sexual abuse charges (8 charges in all). Indictments remain sealed until suspects are taken into custody.
The Grand Jury meets again next month.

Texas Ranger Captain L. C. Wilson said "the investigation is by no means over. There are certainly other persons of interest and other suspects in the case." He has five Rangers assigned to the case, and more may be made available.
Most Texas Rangers have law degrees, and assist in the higher levels of investigation.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 08:43 PM

13 million profess the Mormon faith. 5.5 million of them are in the United States. The religion is strong in the South Pacific, Latin America. Utah is 72% Mormon.

"Significant number" monogamous? Probably around 98+ percent.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 05:13 PM

Charges of polygamy will not fly. In order to 'comply' with the anti-polygamy laws Mormons switched to having only one legal, i.e. married partner per man. So far, in this country, law does not concern itself with how many sexual partners consenting adults may have.

And, it appears, a significant number of Mormon men opt to have only one partner. I don't see how law can successfully proscecute anyone on the basis of multiple unions.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 04:57 PM

In an interesting twist, the mothers have turned entrepreneurial and are now selling their fashions online. One other article I read on this also said authorities are looking at possible criminal charges.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 02:35 PM

Yes, like most newspaper byline articles, the writer may know something about a part of the problem, but not the whole.
Foster care in Texas has a bad reputation, and she covered that, but I agree that she added some questionable interpretations that went beyond that situation.

I read another article, but I have lost the source. When the children were ordered returned, some had been exposed in the foster homes to TV and a number other things that are forbidden in their home environment- possibly even to classic Coca-Cola (contains caffeine, stimulants are forbidden to Mormons). The writer facetiously wondered if the kids so exposed would throw a tantrum when they were returned home because they would be denied these things?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 24 Jun 08 - 01:49 AM

It doesn't matter how badly abused a child may be, they always prefer to be with their parents. Its hard to say, however, if the trauma of placing a child in foster care is due to the quality of foster care or the trauma of separation or the trauma of prior abuse. Its all takes its toll and that is why separating a child from a parent is usually a last resort.

The article cited by Q was particulary damning but also a bit arrogant if not deceitful. I especially question that, "...they were separated long enough to traumatize some children for life, particularly the youngest, who perceive time as passing far more slowly than do adults."

What??? Young children have absolutely no concept of time, let alone if it goes fast or slow. It isn't until about grade 2 that they begin to estimate the passage of time with any accuracy at all.

That article was sensationalism at its best.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 08 - 02:43 PM

Two items of interest in the San Angelo newspaper today.

1. CPS Actions Damaged Children. Johana Scot, Parent Guidance Center, Austin Texas. A rather damning indictment of foster care in Texas.
2. Jeffs' Daughter Says She Doesn't Need Protection. Jennifer Dobner, Associated Press. She will seek to argue for a different attorney when the Grand Jury convenes in Schleicher County next week.

The Grand Jury proceedings are secret, and will not be made public or reported in the press. It may be some time before any indictments are handed down, if any. No cross-examination or opposing testimony is allowed in these proceedings.

June 23, 2008. www.gosanangelo.com
Click on links under the heading, More Headlines.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 01:58 AM

Yes, I agree. Child abuse and fraud would be the best way to prosecute the crimes by the FLDS and their associates. It seems that the focus on polygamy will never pass the freedom of religion test. However, if FLDS men can have more than one wife, so can other men of other religions and cultures.

I think the special prosecutor is trying to bring the question of polygamy before the courts but I doubt if he will get very far. He's trying to please Wally Oppal (attorney general) who really wants to 'get' Winston Blackmore but knows it won't hold up in court. He's already been told by two previously appointed special prosecutors to forget it because it contravenes rights and freedoms.

I'm with Wally on this one. I want to see Winston Blackmore and his cohorts tried as criminals for not only physical damage and theft but for all of the emotional damage they have inflicted on others. I

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 03:23 PM

Yes, heric - the issue should be child abuse, rather than polygamy...

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:11 PM

I don't understand what he is trying to say, from reading that article. Does he mean the theoretical effects on society if these people weren't largely isolated from society? (Are we supposed to ask what if people started doing this in the city?) I'm sure Robertson knows what he means, but it is not transferred into print. He can't mean the rights of one little abused and isolated girl can be trampled by freedom of religion under the Constitution. (Maybe I'm just not focusing but I think that journalist needs to go back to school. The polygamy and the underage issues seems to be all scrambled up, for another problem.)

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:25 PM

BC is still trying to prosecute the polygamists at Bountiful but the new special prosecutor is taking a slightly approach.

"If we proceed [to laying criminal charges], the bulk of evidence would be how polygamy affects people in society in general, not simply the way it is practised in Bountiful."

The prosecution would be required to call witnesses to satisfy the court "that in fact the degree of harm, social harm resulting from polygamy per se - not just in Bountiful - is such that criminalizing it is justifiable in a free and democratic society. That is the main argument, as I see it," Mr. Robertson said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080616.BCPOLYGAMY16/TPStory/National

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:29 PM

17 or judge's decision. Go far up the thread; details linked there.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:22 PM

"The legal age in Texas to marry without parental consent is 18."
What is the legal age to marry with parental consent? As I read the agreement, there is nothing there to stop them from discretely coercing girls into marriage at that age.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 06:07 PM

Mrrzy- dunno. Have to wait for the DNA tests to be published. Until then, its eeny miny-
The tests are in, but not all parents tested.
See "DNA Info in as Reunions Begin."
http://www.gosanangelo.com

I am not linking that article directly, as there are others of interest, all clearly linked at the newspaper's website. June 3, 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:36 PM

So, the kids are back, but do we know who's who's child?

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:49 PM

I don't believe them. They will say that to get the children back, then they will find a way to still have their child brides. Their whole society is based on fear and secrecy. Leopard can't change his spots no matter what he agrees to.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 10:11 PM

Yeh, my bullshit meter is spinning in circles. There's a bit in the FLDS statement about not allowing underage marriages in their jusrisdiction. Does that mean they'll ship the girls to Bountiful B.C.?

I'm also very concerned about this:

"...attorney ad litem Natalie E. Malonis is asking the judge to stay the new order in connection with her client, an underage girl, saying it places her at risk from a possible "perpetrator."
    In court on Friday, Malonis said she was investigating whether her client may have given birth to a child who is being claimed by another woman. Under questioning by Walther, Malonis said she did not know who that woman may be or where the child was staying.
    The new filing said Malonis had reached an agreement with attorneys for CPS and for her client's mother, who agreed the girl would stay in state custody for another 30 days. Walther's order does reflect that agreement, Malonis objected."

http://www.sltrib.com/contents/ci_9454066

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 09:54 PM

The FLDS will not permit or recognize any spiritual unions until the minor is old enough to consent in (his or) her individual capacity? I wish he had said THAT. My bullshit-meter is shorting out and smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 09:47 PM

Apparently some negotiation is still going on about return of the children.
Apart from that, "Three of the children who were staying at a local shelter (Corpus Christi) after being removed from the YFZ ranch left the shelter with their parents shortly after 1 p.m. today, but it is unclear how many other children remain in the shelter and when they might leave."
From an article in the San Angelo Standard Times, June 2. www.gosanangelo.com

The newspaper also carries the order "Vacating Temporary Managing Conservatorship and additional Temporary Orders," and the full text of Walther's "Additional Temporary Orders."
The validity of her temporary orders remains in question.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 08:24 PM

FLDS now has declared they will change their marriage policy. At least one good thing has come from this.

SAN ANGELO, Texas (CNN) -- A polygamist sect under fire over allegations of underage marriage will now allow women to wed only when they are old enough to give consent under state law, a spokesman said Monday.The legal age in Texas to marry without parental consent is 18.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 04:40 PM

Wow - Wally Oppal (attorney general) really wants to get the FLDS in Bountiful, BC. He has appointed another (the third) special prosecutor in hopes of being able to make charges stick. This is an interesting read and helps us to understand why its so difficult to prosecute. I respect Oppal in as much as he is doing his homework and if he can, he will lay charges and do what he can to prevent unnecessary trauma to the women and children. I hope it works because if it doesn't we will be facing a huge social problem with Muslim immigrants who will soon be arriving in droves from Africa and the Middle East.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=d74cc0b1-7e59-4bed-8d28-86ef3b336706

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 04:25 PM

Earlier in this thread we discussed how it was possible for the FLDS to flourish. I suggested that laws (other than bigamy) are being broken. It seems that an investigation is already in the works. Among other things, these folks are stinky polluters. They also seem to think that they can run a cement factory without a permit.

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700231012,00.html?pg=1

I think Winston Blackmore is poised to become the next prophet.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 08:51 PM

No. Never read comments except those that support my views.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 06:16 PM

Oh my you should read the comments at the Salt Lake Tribune under that last story. They're Talkin' 'Bout a Revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 05:37 PM

This could be in limbo for some time, but it is likely that the Texas Supreme Court would be asked to set the limits on Walther's jurisdiction if agreement cannot be reached. The Court could also impose time limits.

I found it amusing that the San Angelo paper has suspended printing comments. Some were getting too hot. Reminds me of Joe trying to police some of the below-the-belt threads here at Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 03:53 PM

Here we go: As usual, the best reporting on this comes from the Salt Lake Tribune. http://origin.sltrib.com/news/ci_9428706

It seems that the Judge imposed restrictions beyond what had been negotiated between the agencies and the parents. That could be objectionable on several grounds, depending on Texas law. In California she would certainly have the right to come up with her own, additional requirements. It's probably the same in Texas. The legal aid lawyers may accept that authority, but still claim that the nature of the restrictions was beyond her authority - e.g. causing ambiguity and delay that would frustrate the higher courts' intentions to get the reunions accomplished. Perhaps her requirement that the agencies have unrestricted access to the compound 24/7 would involve too many people that were not part of the appeal proceedings, so that it is not in these mothers' capacity to promise compliance.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 03:37 PM

General information-
The 51st District attorney general is Stephen R. Lupton, up for re-election in 2008.
Attorney Allison Palmer would be in charge of any criminal prosecutions arising from any charges arising from the FLDS action; she has stated that she likely will need help from the State Attorney General's office if any charges are filed from the FLDS action.

Digression-
Eldorado is the county seat of Schleicher County, 1300 sq. mi, and only 2800 people, 48% Hispanic. (dunno if the FLDS ranch population is included). The 51st District also includes Tom Green County and the city of San Angelo, which is the seat of the court led by Judge Barbara Walther.
San Angelo is the seat of Tom Green County, county pop. 103,000, 1522 sq. mi., about 33% Hispanic.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 02:02 PM

Or she could insist that men identified as possible perpetrators of abuse move out of the home.

In sexual abuse cases I have known of or read about, this was the most common action...making the accused move out away from the alleged victims until the courts deemed otherwise. I am not sure how well that would work in such a closed society as FLDS, though, without some major changes in local law enforcement, mothers being given autonomy from the offending male authorities, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 01:34 PM

The Supreme Court order was unambiguous that conditions and restrictions could be imposed BEFORE the children are returned:

"While the district court must vacate the current temporary custody orders as directed by the court of appeals, it need not do so without granting other appropriate relief to protect the children, as the mothers involved in this proceeding concede in response to the Department's motion for emergency relief."

The parents' lawyers arguments are being inaccurately reported (surprise!) or else they are just blowing smoke, making bad faith arguments, and contradicting what they had already conceded.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 01:22 PM

Its not over, yet. The following conditions seem reasonable, under the circumstances.

"An agreement was being discussed in court Friday afternoon before Judge Barbara Walther. Under a draft of a court order released to the public during the session, the children would be returned starting Monday.

The draft applies to 330 children. It was not immediately known how the state would handle returning another 110 children.

Attorneys for the state and the FLDS families are discussing conditions:

Allowing unanounced home visits by Child Protective Services .

"Giving CPS the child's address and a list of people living in the home within 72 hours after reclaiming the child.

Agreeing not to remove the child from the state of Texas.

Completing parenting classes and furnishing proof of completion.

Parents picking up their children would be required to have their photo and the child's photo taken and to sign a release acknowledging they agree to the conditions."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/30/texas.polygamists/?iref=hpmostpop

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 12:43 PM

The idea being portrayed in some news accounts that this case is over and the FLDS group will be left alone should be set aside because allegations and evidence of forced underage marriages and impregnated minors don't just disappear

No doubt some children will eventually be sent back to their parents, but it will be interesting to see which of them do not and on what grounds.

From The Wall St Journal May 30th

'Authorities said they feared that the polygamist families, once reunited, would flee out of state and resume practices that officials consider abusive, such as yoking young girls to older men in marriage.

The Supreme Court acknowledged those concerns. But the majority of justices ruled that the state could take other measures, short of separating families, to protect the children from sexual abuse.

For instance, the district judge handling the case could order the families reunited on condition that they promise to remain in Texas. Or she could insist that men identified as possible perpetrators of abuse move out of the home.

The judge could also grant the state custody of the children deemed most at risk, specifically pregnant girls or teenagers who have hit puberty and are considered ready for marriage in the culture of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

"Basically, it's back to square one," said Jack Sampson, a family law professor at the University of Texas.

He said he expected that all young children and boys would be returned to their families within days, but some older girls might remain in state custody pending individual review of their circumstances and the risk that they will be abused.

"The return of all the children is certainly not mandated," he said.'

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 12:28 PM

Poor Judge Walther must feel as if she has the weight of the entire State of Texas on her shoulders. Demerit point, though, for reaching an "impasse" with a pack of lawyers, if that's true. Hopefully, however, she entered a clear ruling for analysis, rather than having the appellate court stuck reviewing that she "just didn't do it" after an "impasse."

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: heric
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 12:16 PM

All hell broke loose in the trial court Friday afternoon:

"Finally, after several hours of discussion, one group of lawyers representing families said that the court lacked authority to impose any restrictions and that Judge Walther's only choice was simply to vacate her April order granting custody to the state.

Judge Walther then read parts of the Supreme Court's decision that she said did give her authority to place restrictions to provide for the safety of the children. The impasse could not be resolved, and she left the courtroom shortly afterward."

The lawyers weren't even sure the hearing had concluded. Parents are probably filing in the appellate court tomorrow.

NYT

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 11:52 AM

they chose that way of life so let them be, they will in time answer to God for the their time here on earth.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 May 08 - 02:25 PM

The New York Times calls it chaos as judge walks out.

A more balanced report in the San Angelo paper:
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/31/sect-kids-return-delayed/

Politics could make the proceedings a mess. Justices of the Texas courts of appeals are elected and serve six-year terms.
Appellate judges appointed to fill vacancies must face the voters at the next election.
Three members of the Texas Supreme court face 2008 election challenges.

Judge Barbara Walther is an elected judge (51st. District), four year term. I don't know when her term is up and she faces the voters again.

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Alice
Date: 31 May 08 - 12:14 PM

Here is the CNN May 28 news report on the Jeffs wedding photos and discussion about how the brides feel they are marrying the prophet of god and will be a goddess.
This video includes a discussion regarding which kids are at risk, how many children are at risk, what kind of risk, is it imminent risk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70vavVj06Us

Subject: RE: BS: Texas Polygamist Colony Raid
From: Alice
Date: 31 May 08 - 11:24 AM

News update, the judge will not sign the order for the parents to pick up their children until the mothers in the case sign the order first. Seems to me the DNA results should match up the children and parents before they can take the children back, considering there was so much deception regarding parentage.