Kate Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am

Subject: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: Folknacious
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 07:12 AM

Highlighting and reminding about this away from the sidetracked Seth Lakeman thread from last week's programme.

The second of the My Music documentary series on folk artists is on UK Channel 5 TV tomorrow MORNING at 11 (not evening!) Sunday 13th. This week's one is on Kate Rusby. There are 3 more to go on Athena, Eliza Carthy and a repeat of Kathryn Tickell

There's a MySpace page and a preview at fRoots.

Discuss when watched!

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Tonia
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:23 PM

"Highlighting and reminding about this away from the sidetracked Seth Lakeman thread from last week's programme."

Well done. Can we keep this one reasonably relevant to the programme and the music/ visuals/ story in it please? My alarm clock is already set.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 01:24 PM

Also here:

five culture

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Tonia
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:08 PM

Late evening bump to remind for the morning!

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:21 PM

Is Kate folk?

We need to know

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:30 PM

Thanks Tonia, a friend is recording it , and sending it to me via the internet. me living outside of the UK and all, I can't watch it when it's broadcast

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:38 PM

"Thanks Tonia, a friend is recording it , and sending it to me via the internet."

We promise not to tell the authorities ;-)

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Tonia
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:40 PM

"Is Kate folk? We need to know"

All will presumably be revealed at 11am . . .

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Tonia
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 05:48 AM

Alert! On in 12 minutes!

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Sue Allan
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 06:23 AM

I love Kate Rusby's singing, but what a pity she/BBC chose to include The Recruited Collier as an example of a 'traditional' song. Kate admits that there's some debate about the song - whether it comes from the North East or Yorkshire. A pity Kate or programme makers didn't do their research properly.

In fact it's a Cumbrian song, originally with a pastoral setting and rather different words (nothing to do with miners)by dialect poet Robert Anderson, and was then re-written by Bert Lloyd as a song of the Cumbrian coalfields, and set to his own tune.

For Mudcat thread about this, with link to article about it, see:

thread.cfm?threadid=39035#1023188


Sue

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 06:37 AM

When kR said The Recruited Collier was "a traditional song from either South Yorkshire or the North East" it revealed that she can't read Mudcat which is probably a good thing.

Robert Anderson wrote the poem as Jenny's Complaint (published in Songs In The Cumbrian Dialect, Wigton 1808) about a recruited ploughboy and Bert Lloyd "industrialised" it.

The researchers clearly didn't look far.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Sue Allan
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 06:48 AM

Er, yes Diane ... as I just said. And what's to me is sad is not that she doesn't read Mudcat, which as you say is fair enough, but that she's not actually researched the origins of the song anywhere at all.

Robert Anderson's book of Cumberland Ballads was actually first printed in 1805 and went through numerous editions, published in numerous places,right through the 19th century and into 20th. And Bert Lloyd's 'Recruited Collier' has been in various publications, albeit accredited, allegedly, to collier Jim Huxtable of Workington.

The article referred to in the Mudcat thread was 'A L Lloyd and Reynardine: authenticity and authorship in the afterlife of a British broadside ballad',by Stephen D. Winick in Folklore, Dec 2004

Sue

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 07:02 AM

I didn't duplicate your posting, just added some bits.
What Bert Lloyd said is that "J T Huxtable" sent him the text of Jenny's Complaint which he'd copied from Songs In The Cumbrian Dialect (pub 1808). No-one has ever traced this person though.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Sue Allan
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 07:18 AM

No indeed - in fact Paul Adams of Fellside Recordings, in Workington, tried for many years to trace said Huxtable. When he actually tried to get more info from Bert, he was suitably vague about it I understand!

Having said which, Recruited Collier to Lloyd's tune is a cracking good song.

If anyone's interested, this is Jenny's Complaint:

JENNY'S COMPLAINT         Robert Anderson
                       Air: Nancy's to the greenwood gane


O Lass! I've fearfu' news to tel! What thinks te's cum owre Jemmy?
   The sowdgers hev e'en pick'd him up,
And sent him far, far frae me:
   To Carel he set off wi' wheat;
Them ill reed-cwoated fellows
   Suin wil'd him in – then meade him drunk:
He'd better geane to th' gallows.

The varra seet oo' his cockade
   It set us aw a –crying;
For me, I fairly fainted twice,
   T'ou may think that was tryin';
My fadder wad hae paid the smart,
   And show'd a gowden guinea;
But, lack-a-day! He'd kiss'd the buik,
   And that'll e'en kill Jenny.

When Nichol tells about the wars,
   It's waur than deeth to hear him;
I oft steal out, to hide my tears,
   And cannot, cannot bear him;
For aye he jibes, and cracks his jwokes,
   And bids me nit forseake him;
A brigadier, or grenadier,
   He says they'r sure to meake him.

If owre the stibble fields I gang,
   I think I see him ploughin',
And iv'ry bit o'bread I eat,
   It seems o'Jemmy's sowin':
He led the varra cwoals we burn,
And when the fire I's leetin',
   To think the peats were in his hands,
It sets my heart a-beatin'.

What can I de? I nowte can de,
   But whinge and think about him:
For three lang years he follow'd me,
   Now I mun live widout him!
Brek heart, at yence, and tehn it's owre!
   Life's nowte widout yen's dearie,
I'll suin lig in my cauld, cauld grave,
   For, oh! of life I'm weary!

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 07:33 AM

To be fair, a lot of people were fooled by Bert LLoyd, in his creating or "improving" traditional material. A lot of people try this, and fail, but it's incredibly difficult to write convincing trad songs.We all know the sort of thing, loads of songwriters write fake folk songs. Bert LLoyd was nearly unique in being able to do it totally convincingly. How many singers who do the ultra-trad Blacksmith spot that the great line about "with his good black billycock on" is pure LLoyd?
Alas, I missed the TV programme, so can't comment. Doubtless it will come round again. Or is there some "look again" facilty somewhere?

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 07:57 AM

Bert and many others have done this - in fact many have done so.

How many people sing the first part of Hal-an-Tow as

When man was first created
his works have been debated
and we have celebrated
the coming of the spring/May.

Pure Mike Waterson, who didn't like the way the song started so started it with a new verse.

The point is not to make up, add, delete alter and generally transmogrify words, verses songs etc. by any definition that is the folk process. The trick is not to copyright your version. Otherwise the process stops.

And I don't own a telly.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 09:03 AM

As posted here and on her myspace, I really enjoyed Kate's My Music - especially the unaccompanied bit just before the brass (which was also enjoyable and fitting for that song of hers). Only criticism - more UA singing would be good, not just for tradition but because it is such a beautiful folk-voice she has.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: Kiss Me Slow Slap Me Quick
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 12:12 PM

Ther must be a better way of presenting this type of program. Talking heads spouting how great so and so is and then the odd verse or two often talked over. I like Kate, the live version and her recordings. But, her previous TV performances have been less than uplifting. For the most part this program was OK but never captured the real Kate.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,rogthedodge
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 12:39 PM

I'd give it 6/10, a nice intro for people who don't know her but how many who 'just happen' to watch c5 @11am on a Sunday have never heard of KR?

Shame they didn't get around to actually mentioning the members of the band - especially given their superb talents.

Also thought the Martin Simpson own-goal ad was funny; 4 ads in a KR programme and they show 'Never any good' live footage featuring some-one else singing KR's part

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 02:09 PM

"We promise not to tell the authorities ;-) "

go ahead, sunshine, if thou hast nowt better to do...

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: Folknacious
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 02:14 PM

"a nice intro for people who don't know her" "never captured the real Kate"

Well I don't know her and I did indeed think it was a very nice intro, so you're right Rog. I've got several of her CDs and have seen her live, but the programme drew me in to the person, what makes her tick. She's much more serious and dedicated to the music than the rather ditzy impression I'd got from gigs. A friend of mine who usually only goes for indie bands watched it (more to keep me quiet than anything, I imagine, since I've been nagging all my non-folk friends to catch this series), and was fascinated and now wants me to recommend more of "this sort of thing." It helped that Graham Coxon was one of the "talking heads".

I sippose that if you're a friend or know someone personally then no documentary will be much of a surprise or include everything, but for us out here who don't know her other than from audience distance it was quite revealing and dare I say it mildly inspirational too. She hardly deserves the mud that gets slung at her in places like this.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 05:32 PM

Didn't wake up until 11am as sleeping off flight from BA. It should come up on Dime at some point.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 05:27 AM

I'm not sure why the Martin Simpson advert should've been an "own goal". The "someone else" singing the harmonies on Never Any Good was in all likelihood Kellie While, Martin's long-time collaborator.

Having someone as a guest on your CD to do BVs is lovely, but the more high profile the guest, the less likely they'll be accompanying you on live tours, which means that, by now, Kellie While has probably sung that part a lot more often than Kate has.

Anyway, I haven't seen the programme yet, but my partner recorded it so I look forward to it.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Tonia
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:42 AM

It's wonderful how a supportive family can make all the difference. I've never forced my daughter to listen to folk music, it has always just been there. She found it of her own accord and since she went off to university seems to be even more attached to it and interested as it is a link to home and family. She even asked for a subscription to Folk Roots for Christmas! Hearing how Kate's mum sang to her as a child, and Seth Lakemans dad ran a folk club, it all makes sense. Thats one of the many reasons these programmes are so valuable. I'msure it will be even moreso with Eliza Carthy.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: GUEST,Mike Cain
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 11:47 AM

GUEST, she must be folk; she once sang a song about ploughing and she has a lovely sweater.

Subject: RE: Kare Rusby doc on Channel 5 Sunday 11am
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 04:31 AM

The documentary was very nicely presented and to get support from stars such as Jennifer Saunders who are happy to nail their folky credentials to the mast It can't be bad

The lovely countryside around Barnsley and Cannon Hall country park are indeed a lovely backdrop and Kate has done a lot to improve the rural quality of life

Good luck to her and thanks for kindling the interest in folk song and music

The Recruited Collier is a favourite song of many new female singers introduced to folk song by Kate's popularity and who have sought out folk clubs since hearing the song

I had always associated the song with Cumbria and what a good job Bert Lloyd and Anne Briggs did (last verse has 4 lines but there mudcat threads on this!)

Ray