Folk singers recording non-folk songs

Subject: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 06:52 AM

It occured to me that there are probably hundreds of songs that have been recorded by established folk singers/groups down the years that were originally written or recorded by completely non-folk singers/groups. I've listed some below and would be interested to see any others that people can think of.

Eliza Carthy - Wild Wood (Paul Weller)
Steeleye Span - Rag Doll (Four Seasons)
Steeleye Span - Peggy Sue (Buddy Holly)
Chris Wood - Out Come The Freaks (Was Not Was)
Martin Carthy - New York Mining Disaster 1941 (The Bee Gees)

You get the drift..............

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 06:56 AM

Pentangle - Jack Orion

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:00 AM

Ouch.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:01 AM

I thought Jack Orion was trad. If it isn't then who did the original (on record).

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:15 AM

De Danann - Let It Be (The Beatles)

Gregson & Collister - One Step Up (Bruce Springsteen) - I Heard It Through The Grapevine (Marvin Gaye) - How Men Are (Aztec Camera)

Norma Waterson - Love Of My Life (Queen)

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:32 AM

'Jack Orion' was written by A L (Bert) Lloyd. He based it on the plot of the old ballad 'Glasgerion'. This is common knowledge among people who read sleevenotes; he made no secret of it. He set it to the tune Andy Stewart wrote for his own song 'Donald Where's Your Trousers'. That is less well-known (though Bert did tell people on occasion), but it's obvious if you think about it.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:38 AM

Thanks Malcom. So, basically, Jack Orion doesn't (as I suspected) qualify. So, what part of Bert Lloyd isn't a folk singer Sedayne?

Now any thoughts on the thread..........

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: the button
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:39 AM

Dave Burland -- Blue suede shoes

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: RolyH
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 09:02 AM

Steeleye Span released Buddy Holly's 'Rave On' as a single many years ago.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 09:04 AM

Thanks RolyH. I meant Rave On and not Peggy Sue! (Whoops). Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: RolyH
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 09:09 AM

..... and another one, Martin Carthy - Heartbreak Hotel

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 09:10 AM

Yes

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 10:04 AM

'Jack Orion' was written by A L (Bert) Lloyd. He based it on the plot of the old ballad 'Glasgerion' ... He set it to the tune Andy Stewart wrote for his own song 'Donald Where's Your Trousers'.

Perhaps an illustration would help. Picture the song as a swiss roll, with the cake (or words) wrapped around the jam (or tune)...

sorry, wrong thread.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Willa
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 10:59 AM

June Tabor I'll be Seeing You written by Irving Kahal, Sammy Fain rec by Billie Holliday
It's a long Way to Tipperary written by Jack Judge/Henry williams

Norma Waterson Rags and Old Iron written by Otis Brown Jr rec by Nina Simone

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 11:09 AM

June Tabor did a cracking "White Rabbit".

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 11:55 AM

September Song by Bob Davenport - who appears to believe that folk songs are figments of the imaginations of academics!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 12:29 PM

Depending on your definition of folk or non-folk (heads for the hills)

The Albion Band - Christmas Must Be Tonight (composed by Robbie Robertson)
the original to be found on the LP/CD Islands by The Band

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Peace
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:22 PM

Dave Edmunds "Crawling From the Wreckage". OK, so he was never folk, but it's a rockin' song.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:34 PM

Agree with "Crawling from the Wreckage" - and in fact the whole of "Repeat when Necessary".

The Doonan Family :"So Strong" by Labi Siffre -excellent!
Oyster Band: "Rose of England" by Nick Lowe.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:37 PM

Any Peter Bellamy Kipling song
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Surreysinger
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:39 PM

Bob Copper- Rags and Old Iron (as well)

Martin Carthy ... the Bee Gees song "Mining Disaster...." (sorry, can,t remember the full title !

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:57 PM

I've a dim memory of Martin Carthy covering a Gilbert O'Sullivan song at some point - can't remember which one - Ooh-Wakka-Doo-Wakka-Day maybe?

As for Bert Lloyd, surely he's one of those aforementioned academics whose imaginations folk songs are the figment of - hence Jack Orion presumably. Hitherto I've loathed this particularly pretentious conceit, if only because of the innumerable hours of my life I've lost enduring the bloody thing in singarounds, but now that I know the melody is based on Donald Where's Yer Troosers? it is, to a certain extent, redeemed. As ever, Malcolm, I doff my proverbial cap to ye!

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM

I think "Nothing Rhymed" was the GOS song covered bu Martin Carthy.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:13 PM

It was indeed Nothing Rhymed; thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:28 PM

Which non folk songs did Ewan McColl record? I think that it would be a wease to dub electric guitars and drums to his voice!

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM

Anything he wrote himself.
......to dub electric guitars and drums to his voice!
Why not; If Peter Kennedy could do it with any traditional singer he could lay hands on.......
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk singers' recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 26 Apr 08 - 07:43 PM

Joan Baez has recorded many songs that might qualify - The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, Oh Happy Day, Plaisirs d'Amour.

Judy Collins got some mileage out of Send In The Clowns, also the one about Pirate Jenny.

Phil Ochs did one of the early Beatles songs. It wasn't on any album he released, but after he died it came out on a cassette called The Broadside Tapes.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:31 AM

You're all really showing your age :-) Anything more contemporary?

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: RolyH
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:43 AM

Peter Bellamy did the Rolling Stones 'Worried About You'.It's on the "Wake The Vaulted Echoes" 3CD set.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,stu
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:53 AM

"Anything more contemporary?"

How's about HERE?

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:53 AM

Aren't they doing it to attract attention from 'the otherside'? To get those who think folk is namby pamby to hear what a folk singer can do with 'their' songs?

Sal

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:32 AM

I doubt it Sal. I guess they're doing it because they simply think they're great songs. Nothing more!

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Acorn4
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:33 AM

I seem to remember in the far distant past, Steve Tliston doing a rather excellent version on the Beatles "I Feel Fine".

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:37 AM

There also lies the 'problem' with folk music. By making it accessible to lovers of folk music only and not to 'the other side', it will always be laughed at and frowned upon. We shouldn't wrap it in cotton wool and get all precious about it. If we want the word to spread of how many great songs and singers there are, then we have to expose it.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:43 AM

Dick Gaughan recorded Ruby Teusday!

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Andymac
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:22 AM

Dick Gaughan also recorded "Games People Play" by Joe South
Dave burland recorded "It's all over Now" by sthe Stones as a follow-on to "The Man of Kyandra" (I think that's the right title...

A

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:33 AM

"By making it accessible to lovers of folk music only and not to 'the other side'"
Wonder how Martin Carthy singing Ooh-Wakka-Doo-Wakka-Day and Heartbreak Hotel popularises folk song? I'll have to think about taht one!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Grab
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:04 AM

Show of Hands play a cover of "Time after time."

They also cover "First we take Manhattan", as do many other people. That song itself is in a somewhat dodgy category, because Leonard Cohen is fairly well recognised in the folk world, but that album was more of a rocked-up chanson kind of thing, and he's since become rather too keen on Casio keyboards and cheap drum machines.

And conversely, whilst Paul Weller is best known for his electric stuff, "Wild Wood" is a very folkie song. Rather like Dire Straits' "Why worry" and "Romeo and Juliet" which crop up periodically at folk clubs.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:15 AM

Surely anyone can perform or record anything they want to (within copyright laws etc). What's all this 'other side' nonsense?

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: mattkeen
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM

Norma Waterson - Black Muddy River by Grateful Dead, so prob Jerry Garcia wrote it

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Santa
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM

Fairly up-to-date is Norma Waterson's Black Muddy River.

But I'm sure there were many many more - and why not?

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: mattkeen
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:36 PM

Captain Swing

the other side nonsense that you refer to is an example of the bollox that some folk music types get into - cos of course you are right, and whats more they shouldn't have to explain why they play what they play to anybody

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:58 PM

This is one of the reasons I no longer play at folk clubs and prefer the open mic format. People play whatever they want in whatever style they choose. Traditional material sits happily with blues, rock, self-penned stuff, covers etc. It seems to me to be a more realistic arena - the songs stand on their own ( and the performers' ) merits, not falsely preseved ( pickled?) in the hermetically sealed environment of the folk club.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Santa
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:15 PM

I don't know about hermetically-sealed atmospheres - well, actually, as an engineer perhaps I do, and in this context it sounds bollocks to me - but I do know that I do not want to go out on an evening to listen to blues. It seems only sensible to choose to pass my time in an environment where I am likely to encounter the kind(s) of music I do like, and to avoid those where I am not. I've been known to survive music that is not folk on even the broadest definitions, and even the occasional (Good Heavens!) blues or country.

Equally, it seems sensible for you, Captain Swing, to display your presumed talents to an appreciative audience rather than to me. Good luck: but to badmouth those of other sensitivities makes you appear callow and selfish. I don't suppose you care to play in front of audiences who prefer chamber music, brass bands or symphony orchestras either. It's all that pickled and preserved music, all that exists outside your own little world. I guess they are not realistic enough.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:27 PM

"Folk singers recording non-folk songs"

HORRORS!!!!!! TELL me it isn't true!

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:10 PM

When I say 'the otherside' I mean ask anyone in the street who Jasper Carrot is. They all know. Then ask them who Keith Donelley is. They won't know that he was one of Jasper's joke writers. Now in the folk world most of know 'Oh no it isn't!' and The Bear Son. Ask anyone in the street who The Old Rope String Band is. The folkies know. There is a world that hasn't broken out. If it did and these brilliant artists appeared on TV etc., they'd have to keep coming up with new material. As it is Les Barker can still hawk the 'Shipping Forecast' around the festivals as tho it was new, and of course we all love it.

Sal

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:25 PM

Rock On - The Bunch...the Fotheringport Confusion crowd

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:31 PM

Didn't Ewan McColl record "Control Freakin'" with an appropriate dance?

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:55 PM

Captain Swing:

I no longer play at folk clubs and prefer the open mic format. People play whatever they want in whatever style they choose. Traditional material sits happily with blues, rock, self-penned stuff, covers etc

Apart from the 'mic' thing (we hates 'em, precious) that sounds like our folk club - it's eclectic to a fault. As long as I'm not the only person doing traditional stuff I'm happy - hopefully we can inspire some of the singer/songwriter types to investigate some of that there 'folk' music.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:03 PM

I `ad that Phil Edwards in my cab the other day. `e said "Could you take me to my folk club please?"
I said "Sure. What sort of folk club is it then?" being of the persuasion, y`know.
`e said "It`s an eclectic one, ennit?"
I said "What? 240 volts?"
`e said "Eclectic, not electric, you wally!!"

What am I lke??

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:14 PM

I'm not sure how I was bad mouthing anyone, Santa. I used the term 'pickled' as an aside to, perhaps, suggest that when music is preciously preserved it can become lifeless and stilted.

If the tradition is robust it will survive and flourish in symbiosis with other areas of music.

However, if you are at the stage where you are only just able to tolerate blues then I'm flogging a dead horse.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: mattkeen
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 04:54 AM

The thing I object to about the "otherside" type of attitude is when it is accompanied with a suspicious attitude towards artists who are become successful beyond the folk world.
It is also related to the suspicion about professionals and other fairly ridiculous hippy notions.

Though there is nothing funny about peace, love and understanding

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Suffolk Miracle
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 06:24 AM

Jane Turriff - Empty Saddlers

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Santa
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:09 AM

Not a stage I've reached or passing through: I didn't care for blues when I was young and have never developed any taste for it as a genre. Though I did enjoy the humorous talking blues that seems to have disappeared from the folk scene nowadays.

It is a rare person that likes all kinds of music: people just aren't like that. They discriminate. My son likes heavy metal and doesn't like folk. His loss, in my opinion, but that's just one man's view. There's enough variety within the vague "folk" label to feed our own divisions - singersongwriters, traditional ballads, unaccompanied soloists, amplified groups, singers, musicians, Celtic diddley-diddley merchants.... just read Mudcat to know that most of us will find some aversion to one or more of these genres.

Do you really like every kind of music? Totally indiscriminately? Clearly not, as you post in negative terms about the music in folk clubs. I don't see why you're allowed to discriminate but I'm not.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,Captain Swing
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 03:58 PM

Yes, and I have my own likes and dislikes in terms of music. I guess it's the folk community I have problems with. The fact that this thread exists at all is evidence to me of the insularity of that community.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 04:02 PM

'Aren't they doing it to attract attention from 'the otherside'? To get those who think folk is namby pamby to hear what a folk singer can do with 'their' songs?'

No.

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 09:24 PM

Battlefield Band: We Work the Black Seam

The problem with 'making folk music more accessible' is usually that it results in versions of well-liked songs becoming indistinguishable from pop songs (If I Had A Hammer by Trini Lopez is a case in point to me). On the other hand, the line is very fine, and I suppose drawing it is a very individual thing. I've heard James Keelaghan dismissed as 'pop-folk rubbish' and Iain MacKintosh as 'sentimental' not for the songs but for the arrangements, which were obviously too rich for the people concerned while still acceptable to me (though admittedly I prefer both artists solo). Everybody will have their own examples - an inexhaustible topic.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 07:19 PM

Speaking of contemporary singers, Burl Ives did this in the 1950's. Bud and Travis did several, as did the Journeymen ("Jada, Jada"). Many folkies also liked Broadway show tunes (how many did "They Call The Wind Mariah?"). Even Joan Baez and Judy Collins have committed this apparent faux pas. I would say that the illness is widespread and no cure is in sight.

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:51 PM

I have a question that may raise a few hairs, but I'm asking, so don't anyone get all owley about it.

Are traditional festivals--that is, are festivals that have only traditional music presented in a traditional manner doing well, so-so or poorly?

Subject: RE: Folk singers recording non-folk songs
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 04:18 AM

I get a bit tired of the "You're a Folk Singer - why are you singing non-folk songs?" attitude of some people. Didn't Louis Armstong say, in answer to the "Is it folk music" question, something on the lines of "Well! I ain't ever heard a cow sing..."
As far as I am concerned, singing is singing and music is music. Norma waterson has certainly been known to say something to that effect. As far as I am concerned it has more to do with style of performance than who wrote it.
Jazz singers and bands happily take ANY song or tune, jazz it up, and it automatically becomes a jazz number.
Scots and Geordies take ANY song, change the words to the local dialect variant and it immediately becomes THEIR song.
The Irish just claim ANY song written ANYWHERE as an Irish song.

When Van Morrisson records with the Chieftains, does it make HIM a folk performer or does it make the Paddy Moloney a rock star?

Some of my personal inputs are "One big thing" originally performed by Scottish rock guitar band Big Country, which is an uplifting song I do unaccompanied. Another is Purple Haze done with clawhammer banjo - well Hendrix MUST be a folk singer because he did Bob Dylan's All Along The Watchtower...

The reason I don't do much Rhythm and Blues is because it doesn't sit well on the banjo, not because I don't rate the songs.
Quack!
GtD.