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BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty
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Subject: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 May 08 - 08:04 PM Oh shit have people no memories? Local authority services will be destroyed. Dare we hope, as rubbish collections disappear, as the needy are shovelled onto the streets, as the oligarchs come to rule the planning system, and God help the people because the local authority won't, that the stupid, stupid English will learn, will even begin to see an inkling of how they will be dispossessed and reduced to lackey status if the old Etonians and plutocrats get to control parliament and the country again? Time to stockpile milk bottles, petrol and rags. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Padre Date: 03 May 08 - 01:22 AM Do I take it from your 'sky is falling' input that the Liberal party has lost some local election (or did they win)? And what will you do with gasoline in a milk bottle? You will have a hard time pouring it into the gas tank of your Austin A-40. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 03 May 08 - 03:03 AM Here comes poverty. Richard, its already there, without Boris influencing it. Sounds like a neat idea to pass the buck to the incoming Mayor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: DMcG Date: 03 May 08 - 03:24 AM Many of the general public interviewed mentioned things like the 10% tax rate, fuel prices, food prices ... The depressing thing is that so many people seem unable to distinguish between local and national government. Either that, or they think 'sending a message to Westminster' is more important than how their local services are run. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: alanabit Date: 03 May 08 - 03:36 AM It looks like Labour are losing power the same way as Schroeder did in Germany - by pissing off their own supporters. They have tried to hang on to power by increasingly stealing the Tories clothes. That sort of political transvestite will always be doomed to opposition. All Brown has to do to stay in power is to keep his own supporters on board. It's the old political maxim: Oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 03 May 08 - 03:39 AM The local elections have always been a means of showing the government "that one isn't amused" |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: sapper82 Date: 03 May 08 - 04:16 AM Yes, Richard, I do have a memory. I have a memory of being on duty to provide fire fighting cover for the Firemen's strike in 1977. I have memories of one of the troops on my squadron going to Glasgow to clean the streets of rubbish in '78. I have a memory of being on standby for going to Liverpool to bury bodies at the same period. I remember RCT lads driving oil tankers past picketts of striking hospital porters when they'd stopped the civvie drivers from delivering fuel oil. I remember the same strikers vetting people trying to get to hospital casualy departments to see if they were sick enough to pass. That is why I am a Tory and that is why I will never vote for a socialist in any form. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: DMcG Date: 03 May 08 - 04:19 AM You are absolutely right, of course, Villan, but that still seems to me to be a poor use of voting. Back in the days that people tried to have witty default signatures on emails, one of the favourites I received was something like: "XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Please find enclosed your lifetime supply of democracy" Voting someone into power in a local election to send a message to someone else, while ignoring what the person you elected actually wants to do seems to me to waste one of the very few Xs we really have. Your view may, of course, differ. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: autolycus Date: 03 May 08 - 04:46 AM The English are essentially a small 'c' conservative lot. They are never amused and, having been criticised heavily when small by their upbringers, who had themselves been criticised heavily when small by their upbringers who were et cetera, as a result are arch fault-finders who seek to find the weakness of others, like their politicians. (tho' it doesn't stop there, natch). So you can have done a great job for a long time, but one bad error will count for more. Thus can the voters blithely ignore, forget, or re-write and re-remember the things you got right. All of this is of the essence of a blaming society, where it's always someone else who carries the can. An alternative is some form of loyalty. (Or even memory) We are often loyal to partners, and to family and real friends. Sometimes to country. GUEST Shimrod expresses amazement at the idea of loyalty. It used to be the Concervative's secret weapon. All the the above is why I'm relieved that I never sought political office. What with the kind of voters we have who are moody, irrational, ignorant, disloyal, resentful, and so easily swayed while denying with their last breath that anyone can sway them, that they are basically ignorant, that they are moody, that they are irrational. As ever, we'll get the politicians we deserve. If we don't like the result, we can ignore WHO put them in, just be annoyed with them by voting others in, and the merry(?)-go-round will continue. Wake me when it's over. Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 May 08 - 05:19 AM The 1970's were an entire object lesson to the labour party that there is no way for them to 'keep their supporters aboard' or appease them, and as sapper points out - it ended in the winter of discontent. The problem I have with the tories is that the supporters they keep aboard are probably quite as bad as a trade union movement, puffed up with its own importance - namely the Ulster unionists (didn't the Irish policies that saw your friends getting shot over there sicken you, Sapper - they were quite unnecessary and stopped almost as soon as Labour got in?) other supporters are the Murdoch press, the millionaire cliques that pay no taxes, the list goes on. I don't think Blair had any choice with Afghanistan and Iraq. He knew how America had vindictively buggered up our economy when we refused to support them over Vietnam. He wasn't going to spend his tenure picking up the pieces like Wilson did. However because of this Brown and Blair spent a lot of time picking lead out of their ass from their own supporters. The raising of the 10p tax rate was inexplicable and inexcusable. The failure to clean out M15/MI6 (particularly after that suspicious suicide of the scientist). The failure to tackle huge profits by cartels and monopolies operating in this country - and make them pay sensible amounts of tax. These have been the real moral failures. As a Labour Party supporter - albeit a passive one - I am sorry for its failures. As someone who has worked as a teacher, and seen the iniquitous 'National Curriculum' come and go, and then someone who has had to manage living on allowances with my disabled wife. I can see that the Labour Party has more inherent decency than the tories. It occurs to it to do decent things that the tories would never think of. And they don't sneer at us from the party platform, like Peter Lilley did. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 03 May 08 - 05:35 AM As a Londoner, I am glad the Livingstone regime has been overthrown. We should be having street parties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 03 May 08 - 05:39 AM I switched on the radio to hear that Boris Johnson wasw now Mayor of London (hooray) and then heard him praise Ken Livingstone whom he described as a "very considerable public servant". That was pretty decent of him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Leadfingers Date: 03 May 08 - 05:53 AM Sapper - New Labour dropped ANY reference to Socialism from their manifesto in 1997 ! The Blair cabinet was further to the right than John Majors !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 03 May 08 - 06:24 AM Thats becuase they knew there was no chance of getting in as the governing party, if they didn't do that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,Lox Date: 03 May 08 - 09:56 AM Well all you ken haters .. If Ken's so bad, why does Boris want to keep him on in city hall? Isn't he confident enough in his own abilities? Does he need advice? Help? From Ken? Why? Is Ken actually pretty good? Come on Rockin Reeler ... explain that for us why don't you ... I mean ... presumably ken was doing a bad job and Boris felt that he would do a better job ... ... y'know ... undo kens mistakes ... implement better policies ... ... not say "actually ken I need you to give me a hand ... cos I actually don't have a clue ..." He's right about Kens "transparent love of London". At least he has the guts to realise that once the politicking is over, someone needs to do the job of keeping London Going and they need to know what's going on. Ken was a good guy and London will look back on this day with a resounding "Doh!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: artbrooks Date: 03 May 08 - 02:14 PM Well, not that I think that US politics are any great prize these days - far from it, in fact - but are we allowed to |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: folk1e Date: 03 May 08 - 02:42 PM Ken going could be a blessing in disguise ...... If anybody expects Boris to do a good job (this includes you RR) I would be amazed! It was a vote against rather than a vote for. Having said that ..... when it does go tits up in London, I wonder how many will look back on the departure of "Red" Ken with sadness. Gordon Brown however will probably be quite pleased with this one aspect of the election. Not only does he get rid of one of his arch enemies, but he is replaced by a buffoon who will be all too easy to tag with "The Conservatives couldn't even run London, don't vote for them in the next election" mantra! I have been known to be wrong ...... but I would put money on this one! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 May 08 - 02:45 PM Help yourself. he had a lot of fans actually. people you wouldn't expect. The trash press used to rubbish him and say London was a mess. To those of us outside of London - its always seemed a bit of a mess. When you get to the M1 - it always feels to us like you're leaving the warzone. London never seems noticeably better or worse. Just a bloody mess. The newspapers used to make fun of his irritating voice and his collection of newts, but you'd meet Londoners and they'd say stuff like - he does his best for us......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: John MacKenzie Date: 03 May 08 - 02:46 PM Ironically, if Ken had not been welcomed back into the bosom of the New Labour Party, he might still be London Mayor today. G |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Big Al Whittle Date: 03 May 08 - 03:14 PM well he's edited a magazine. Boris can't be as big a plonker as he seems on telly. Still if its an act, its a bloody good one! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: akenaton Date: 03 May 08 - 03:58 PM I agree with that Al. I can't understand why Ken thought it a good idea to re-join Labour. Anybody with an ounce of political sense could see the writing on the wall when Blair was forced to make a run for it. The country just wants them gone...every man jack of them. Economics dont come into it when the electorate are sickened and now Labour are an embarrasment, every time we see their smug faces we are reminded of how they made us all complicit in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands. We want them to vanish from vision and memory, because we are as guilty as the politicians. No point in saying well the Tories supported the war too.....Thats what Tories do!!....support wars. This was our beloved Labour party, a hundred years of history fighting for the oppressed, giving medical care and education to the poor......and led by a raving madman. We all knew he was as mad as a hatter, but we were afraid to leave our very unsocialist comfort zone. Thankfully for me and my fellow Scots, we will never have to thole the Tory boot on our necks, our country will soon be free, politically and free of crazed quasi-religious warmongers No tears please for the "ex-party"....We allowed Blair, Brown and the rest of the scum to rip it to pieces......Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 03 May 08 - 04:32 PM "Ironically, if Ken had not been welcomed back into the bosom of the New Labour Party, he might still be London Mayor today." He will rue the day he accepted the invite. He's got too much class to say it, but Labour know it's true. Even Boris knows it's true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Gulliver Date: 03 May 08 - 06:52 PM Well said, Akenaton. Blair and Co. (yes, the whole Labour leadership with very few exceptions) threw their collective conscience to the wind to preserve power and their own jobs, over Iraq. Shame on the lot of them--they deserve to go. So there's going to be a blip in social services? Try telling that to the thousands of maimed and the dependents of the dead who are rotting away in Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 May 08 - 07:03 PM Boris can't be as big a plonker as he seems on telly True enough, it doesn't really seem possible that he could be. But the signs are that he probably is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 03 May 08 - 07:18 PM I've been reading about "Boris the Menace" for years so I know who he is and what an idiot he is. Most of the voters have no idea or they wouldn't have voted for him either. It is a classic tactic to field someone that nobody really knows anything about as a "fresh" candidate running against an old hand. Of course these days with all the Apathy that exists most people don't know who's in government, I've heard people on the tube admitting they don't know who the prime minister is, let alone anything about the MP for Henley - now Mayor of London, so fielding an unknown was never going to be that hard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 May 08 - 07:51 PM He wasn't an unknown. He was already a very well known buffoon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 May 08 - 07:59 PM Can we make that "racist, bigoted, elitist buffoon" please? And then can we see if we can spot the difference from other conservatives? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 May 08 - 08:08 PM Sapper 82 - don't you get it? When the capitalist system makes the rich richer and teh poor poorer the capitalists say that the weak must go to the wall so that the strong can survive, that the capitalist system should be allowed to take its course. When the capitalist system offers a chance to the poor to take the rich bastards by the throat (economically speaking, of course) and take back the profit from their unrequited labour, do the rich bastards say that the system should be allowed to take its course? No, they send in the army. You were deprived, by the command system of the army, of any chance to obey the dictates of a conscience. That is no excuse for failing now to have one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 04 May 08 - 04:30 AM Now the street parties are over, I am going to sit back and enjoy the sight of Boris sacking all of Ken's placeman: y'know, the usual Trotskites, Jew hating homophobic Islamisists, men loathing feminists, and other assorted dangerous cranks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 04 May 08 - 04:48 AM I am just listening to that pillock Gordon Brown on TV. Don't trust anytthing he says or does. He looks a wreck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 04 May 08 - 04:50 AM Oh my god, he is saying "I understand what people are saying. I understand how they are feeling th epinch. I am just an ordinary person as well and I am feeling the pinch" Yes Gordon. How much are you on? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 04 May 08 - 04:51 AM or should I say "What are you on" |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: akenaton Date: 04 May 08 - 04:54 AM "and other assorted dangerous cranks." Ah RR lad..... better keep a weather eye open for a blond haired politician with one brain cell. (with apologies to Mr Stevenson) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 04 May 08 - 05:20 AM Now, now, akenaton. Far from one brain cell, he is an intellectual who has edited a magazine, written informed journalism and one highly accliamed history book. He has also fathered four highly intelligent children; which admittedly, falls one short of Ken the Stud, who has fathered five highly intelligent children from as many mothers. (ooooh, I know- bitch.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 04 May 08 - 05:21 AM Now he has time on his hands, I suppose we can expect the happy announcement very soon of some more births. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 04 May 08 - 05:39 AM I have heard that Boris is planning to go really green and ban all cars coming into London. They will have to park in specially provided park and ride carparks outside of the M25. People can then either take the train, bus, bycycle or run (the last two options will get a bonus tax reduction on your salary). |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Big Al Whittle Date: 04 May 08 - 05:47 AM 'Now the street parties are over, I am going to sit back and enjoy the sight of Boris sacking all of Ken's placeman: y'know, the usual Trotskites, Jew hating homophobic Islamisists, men loathing feminists, and other assorted dangerous cranks.' Reminds me of Derek Brimstone's hill billy uncle, Ezra Maddox III. He taught Derek to play the banjo and was the least predjudiced person in the world.... hated jews, catholics, students, faggots, communists, socialists, protestants, protesters, hippies, and anyone else who wasn't family. Hated them all equal.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 May 08 - 05:55 AM The longest period of economic stability and growth The highest spending on health The highest spending on education including the re-building or replacement of all secondary schools More children taken out of poverty than ever 10 years of tax changes that helped the economy and took many families out of poverty The ending of the war in Ireland Crime down by 10% where I live So lets put the Tories back in. The removal of the 10% tax band was stupid and affected people the tories really don't care about The war was wrong ......................... but the Tories were in favour of that! People have been embarrassed by a number of things the government have done and they don't like that. People want quiet uneventful lives. As we speak the Tory leadership, Lord Snooty and his palls, are attaching electrodes to various parts of Boris in the hope that they can stop him doing and saying stupid, offensive things. If you doubt this just watch Boris in interviews. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Rasener Date: 04 May 08 - 06:05 AM The longest period of economic stability and growth - What a load of rubbish The highest spending on health - can't fault that, except that it has been totally squandered The highest spending on education including the re-building or replacement of all secondary schools - squandered springs to mind More children taken out of poverty than ever -not where I live 10 years of tax changes that helped the economy and took many families out of poverty - and has put them back in it. The ending of the war in Ireland - 100% with that Crime down by 10% where I live -not where I live. You forgot Iraq - that has cost us a bomb in terms of lives, cost and an ex leader called blair who should b etried for what he and Bush did in Iraq. Be proud and vote Labour, you know it makes sense. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 May 08 - 06:18 AM You forgot Iraq - I didn't But I think the Tories would like to |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Bonzo3legs Date: 04 May 08 - 06:20 AM Mmmm, my mother in law (97) always says "the servants do rob you", so one simply has to keep them in their place! |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 May 08 - 07:09 AM Exclnt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 04 May 08 - 07:26 AM This is what happens when you spend 11 years running scared of the tories. They catch up. Gordon Brown engineered the Tax Credit Programme which was the worst-run government welfare programme in history. I used to work in it. He was chronically disloyal to his own leader for years and should have been shovelled back to the back benches years ago. As chancellor, he left the Inland Revenue and the rest of the civil service in such a state that even if the government raised taxes to deal with poverty and greed the government couldn't even collect the money. We need a socialist Labour leader for the last two years of this government that will lay the foundations for victory at the election after next by: Repealing all the anti-union legislation passed since 1979 Making it amandatory for all employers to recognise trade unions Making company directors personally liable for any tax avoidance by their companies Making the same directors Criminally liable for any deaths or injuries among their workforces Nationalise the railways and bring down fares Nationalise the Utilities and drop prices Scrapping Trident and the new aircraft carriers Binging home the troops from Iraq and Afghanistan Scrapping ID Cards Rebuilding the Legal Aid system Reintroduce proper Unemployment benefit and stop bullying people with families into accepting low-paid casual jobs And finally, sacking anyone from the cabinet or the NEC who hasn't had a real job. We're going to lose the next election but if we pass the right laws while we've still got some time we can at least lay the foundations for rebuilding the Labour movement. We're going to lose to the Tories next time but we don't have to make life easy for them. If we put in measures that will benefit the people Labour was founded to serve then they are going to have to justify repealing them - or just swallow them like the Tories had to when they got back in after the Attlee government. Time's running out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 May 08 - 07:27 AM RR Why does Boris want to keep ken on in some capacity? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 May 08 - 07:31 AM "Mr Johnson told Mr Livingstone he hoped to "discover a way in which the mayoralty can continue to benefit from your transparent love of London". " BBC website 3/05/08 |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 May 08 - 07:34 AM So Boris isn't doing what you expected him to do ... So your little gloat earlier serves to do nothing more than expose the level of your ignorance. The difference between you and me is that Boris won't let me down. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 04 May 08 - 07:48 AM How do you know Boris will let me down? He may turn out to be an excellent mayor. He may turn out to be awful. What he wont do is turn the Mayor's office into a platform for self aggrandizement and his whinging and whining loony mates; but I think we have had this argument before elsewhere, haven't we, lox. To give Ken his credit, he is brilliant and resourseful; but his shortfalls far outweighed all of this. The freinds he kept were dangerous and he gave them either platforms or jobs in his office. I think Boris was so kind to him was becasue Ken, from what I hear, was close to tears at losing his job. Me too: Mind you, they were tears of joy. Unless you are a victim of the IRA, doesn't Ken cry easily.Remember when he started blubbing when he apologised to black people for London's part in the slave trade and there werent even any cringe sheilds for his audiance to hide behind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 May 08 - 07:58 AM mmm hmmm 3rd time ... Why does Boris want ken to stick around? |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 04 May 08 - 08:02 AM He felt sorry for him, maybe. Maybe it is because Ken does have ability and Boris wants to draw upon that? Maybe it is so that he can mock and humiliate him. I don't know. I can't read Boris' mind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: UK local elections: here comes poverty From: GUEST,lox Date: 04 May 08 - 08:09 AM I need add nothing more to this discussion. Your last post illustrates in terms that I could never hope to equal, exactly what a shallow ignorant person you are. Folks - frame this one. |
