BS: your wash

Subject: BS: your wash
From: Ed T
Date: 03 May 08 - 07:20 PM

And I thought smoke and drink was bad.

Could your wash be killing you?

Consider these:
http://shop.sixwise.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=92

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Toxic-Danger-of-Fabric-Softener-and-Dryer-Sheets&id=16953

ost:

http://tips.simplygoodstuff.com/stop-wasting-money-on-dryer-sheets/

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 May 08 - 05:49 AM

Did people think that biological washing powders became inert immediately they finished using them?
Stopped using biological powders when we moved to a house with a septic tank, as we were told that the tanks' bacteriological balance could/would be upset if we used them.
Since then we have moved back to mains drainage, but having in the meantime read a bit about them, we will never use biological detergents again.

G

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: peregrina
Date: 04 May 08 - 06:11 AM

Try ecoballs or washballs.

They get the laundry very clean, much better for the environment, no messy soapboxes, better for fabrics as well as environment.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Becca72
Date: 04 May 08 - 07:38 AM

For once I'm glad to have extremely sensitive skin. There is not one single dryer sheet or brand of fabric softener that doesn't cause me to break out in hives almost immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 08 - 07:47 AM

Hang the bloody laundry on a clothesline fer crissakes - nobody needs that crap. Victims of the marketing machine.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 04 May 08 - 12:38 PM

I don't use fabric softener or dryer sheets because of sensitive skin. It is satisfying to see washing hanging on the line but if the weather is bad I do use the dryer.

I have tried washballs but not ecoballs. I've just looked ecoballs up and I think that they would suit me. I haven't tried dryer balls and I hadn't heard of magno balls until I looked up the ecoballs. Has anybody tried any of these and where would be the best place to buy ecoballs?

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 May 08 - 12:53 PM

"Hang the bloody laundry on a clothesline fer crissakes - nobody needs that crap."

Fine when you live in a climate that's conducive to drying clothes on a line. In the UK, they'd always be wet. :-) :-)

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 08 - 01:42 PM

How did people in the UK dry their laundry prior to the advent of the electric or gas dryers?

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 08 - 02:04 PM

In the wintertime we hang our's indoors.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 May 08 - 01:43 AM

I've seen 19th century pics of washing hung from the laundry ceiling on lines & poles that could be moved up & down.

I couldn't find a pic of these systems, but did find a great site on the History of Domestic paraphernalia which occupied my time for a while.

I'd never heard of ecoballs/washballs tho they are mentioned on Google Australia, tho there are lots more references on google.com

I use a drier cos I don't have a backyard & am eagerly counting the days (maybe 2 years) till I move to a place with a yard & outside clothesline! And I will be on the ground floor, not up 2 flights of stairs!!

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Rowan
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:03 AM

Living where I do (New England), I'm pleased to be able to use, most of the time, a solar powered clothes dryer; it's the one with lots of wires out behind the house. When the weather is inclement I use the clothes horse inside the house; sheets can be a hassle at such times but we get by. It was harder when drying lots of nappies but that, thankfully, is now well in the past.

Windblown linen has always seemed softer than anything induced by chemicals so I've been spared exposure to most such nasties.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 May 08 - 04:10 AM

No house was complete without one of these when I were a lad.


G

PS We don't have a tumble dryer either, but we do have a clothes airer, a spare room, and an airing cupboard.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:08 AM

We use one of these and one of these.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 05 May 08 - 08:11 AM

Giok, that's the system I was looking for - good to see it's still available.

bobad - your first link is similar to my plastic-coated airer.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 05 May 08 - 11:38 AM

Don't bother buying eco-wash-balls. It's actually the swooshing your laundry round in hot water that gets it clean, not the wash ball. Or the washing powder. Really, try a load with nothing and see if you notice the difference (other than lack of artificial "clean" smell)

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 05 May 08 - 11:40 AM

Problem is many modern energy efficient house, in northern climates, are highly insulated, have moisture barriers, and impacted by additional internal moisture.

Many have air circulation. But, I suspect much more additional internal moisture (let's say from drying clothes from a family of four) could contribute to mold issues?

Older homes (and those from the past) had plenty of air leaks, little insulation, and had few of these issues to be concerned about.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Rowan
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:29 PM

bobad - your first link is similar to my plastic-coated airer.
And it's similar to my clothes horse, which is what they were called in Oz when they were made from timber dowelling and laths, as mine is.

Older homes (and those from the past) had plenty of air leaks, little insulation, and had few of these issues to be concerned about.

Yes, it's a real trick to achieve adequate air exchange without losing thermal efficiency. Another problem with closed air spaces in granite areas and in stone or granitic-tempered brick buildings is the buildup of radon in the air. Sometimes it pays to give the house a good airing as well as the clothes.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:42 PM

Not so much a victim of marketing but a matter of saving time. You actually have to take a basket of cold, wet material and spend time hanging each and every item from the line. Then you have to go back and get every item back down. God help you if a sudden storm blows up, somebody mows their lawn or if dust or smoke is blown your way while it's hanging.

And then somebody got the idea that drying lines were an eye sore and passed community regulations banning them.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:24 PM

Chief, the marketing comment was aimed at the created need for fabric softeners and dryer sheets and that sort of nonsense.

In Ontario, where I live, some communities passed bylaws outlawing clotheslines on the grounds that they constituted an eyesore but, in reality, the intent was an appeal to class snobbery. The provincial government has just passed a law undoing those bylaws in the name of energy conservation. Sometimes governments get it right.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:56 PM

Nothing can get a piece of cloth as soft as a summer breeze!

I'm sure some of the need comes from the low thread count fabric in most products as well.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:06 PM

Time....that is MY issue. I can't do all the laundry in one day if I don't have a tumble dryer. I haven't the TIME to do one load a day and let it line or 'horse' dry.

I LOVED my outdoor clothesline...when I had the TIME to go hang clothes out when the neighbors weren't mowing, plowing, the wind wasn't gusting to 60 MPH (take my clothes to the next state), raining, snowing, whatever.

There is nothing quite like the smell of outdoor line dried clothes. But I think I'll keep my tumble dryer, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:33 PM

And a youth version of the clothes line has even caught on as seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UIT3sauhww&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:41 PM

Clotheslines of Venice:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gsgeorge/17336898/

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:44 PM

And from the so called land of the free:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/13/7666/

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: bobad
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:49 PM

From the unnamed Guest post of 9:39PM link:

"It's estimated that 75,000 households using a clothesline for even 25% of their drying needs would save enough electricity to power some 1900 homes for a year."

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Ed.T
Date: 05 May 08 - 09:52 PM

"If clothesline are so ugly, a solution is to ban people from wearing clothes so that no clothes are hung. No washing, means no clotheslines"

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:44 AM

"Nothing can get a piece of cloth as soft as a summer breeze!"

I agree, I'd love to dry my clothes outside in the sun, but when you work all day, you have to leave clothes outside. If it's sunny, you come home to bleached clothes. I have had several dark items of clothing made half paler where they've been bleached by the sun whilst on the line all day. Bleaching the whole garment and then redying it surely put more strain on the environment than one tumbledry load would have done.

Also, we discovered that Manitas' hayfever was considerably reduced by using the tumble dryer. A fresh summer breeze may be wonderful but it's laden with airborne pollutants and allergens like pollen, smoke, vehicle exhaust and bird shit. And don't get me on the cooking smells from my neighbours!

We've rarely, if ever used the dryer sheets because a) they were expensive and b) they're no good in a combination washer/dryer. We do use those spiky ball things, I don't see a difference but then, I don't often do the laundry.

Years ago, when I lived in a single room and had no money to spare, I would do all of my laundry in a small vanity sink - everything from delicate underwear, to bed linens and jeans. Wonder how many people would do that these days...

LTS

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Ed T
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:39 AM

"Years ago, when I lived in a single room and had no money to spare, I would do all of my laundry in a small vanity sink - everything from delicate underwear, to bed linens and jeans. Wonder how many people would do that these days."

Hard to sayhow many. But, then, what would I know, I don't have any delicate underwear:)

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: maeve
Date: 06 May 08 - 12:38 PM

I'm still doing that, Liz. As you recall, it takes up enormous amounts of time and energy, especially in a family of gardeners. The hardest parts for me are hauling out the wet laundry and bending over our low kitchen sink. Soaking the very dirty things removes most of the dirt and spares me spending too much time with the scrub boards, of which I have three.

On the other hand, there aren't any options, so I look on it as an entertaining challenge. I'll be happy when we can get my outside clotheslines restrung. This year I'll load up the wet things into my garden cart.

Giok, love the link. One day I'll have at least one drying rack like that one!

Oh yes- as for dryer sheets and the like: nasty smelly things, we think.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Mooh
Date: 06 May 08 - 01:05 PM

We use an outdoor clothesline too, though not so much in the winter when clothes simply freeze solid and have to be brought indoors anyway. In winter we use the collapsible wooden rack which will sit comforably in the kitchen or bathroom. The gas dryer works well but we try to use it as little as possible.

We also use half or less of the recommended laundry soap with no noticable difference, and always wash in cold water.

We don't use a dry-cleaning service often. I don't ever, but the rest of the family does maybe once a year or less. An old friend in the business wouldn't survive in my reality.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: artbrooks
Date: 06 May 08 - 01:17 PM

I got my exercise with the clothesline this morning. I installed it when we bought this house seven years ago...usual thing - dug a hole, put in the socket, filled the hole with concrete. Now I have to move it to make space for a backyard shed. Damn that concrete plug was heavy, once I got down to it!!

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 06 May 08 - 02:55 PM

We own a tumble drier but use it as infrequently as possible. We do an average of two loads a day and most of it dries fine on the line. We often finish things off over radiator racks or just hang things on hangers in doorways.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 06 May 08 - 09:27 PM

Whoa Liz!

I understand you! I don't know alot of people who have the time for hanging the laundry out and I've seen my share of ruined laundry from storms, etc. No need to defend anybody choosing to use the dryer.

I do have another reason not to use the laundry lines though. My family was stung numerous times by bees who got caught up in the brightly colored clothes or other insects that somehow wound up in there while hanging.

And trying to dry clothes indoors in the winter (if you keep the thermostat set at 68 to 72 degrees (to conserve)) they stay wet all day.

But actually this was about using dryer sheets and chemical softeners, not about using the dryer.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Bee
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:38 PM

I haven't managed to get a clothesline back up since Hurricane Juan took it away. My laundry gets hung over the deck rails, and if I have too much, the rest gets hung on hangers from tree branches, which works pretty well and looks er - artistic - yes, artistic!

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Rowan
Date: 07 May 08 - 04:18 AM

Point taken about the original post being about dryer sheets (of which I'd never heard) and chemical softeners, Chief, but I'm curious about your difficulty dealing with bees (when outdoors) and temperatures of 68-72 degrees (Fahrenheit, I presume).

Never having had a tumble dryer I've always used the clothesline out in the yard unless it's raining, which it often did in Melbourne; even then you could often leave the washing out for a couple of days until you got a break in the weather and then, when it was mostly dry, bring it in and finish the airing out inside on the clotheshorse. I don't think I've ever lived in a house where the temperature reached as high as 68F in winter until I lived in Columbia SC. Even then, over winter the nappies would go outside when the sun was out and airing inside would finish them off. These days I live in New England (Oz version) and outside drying in winter (often less than 10 degrees C (50 degrees F) is routine. My inside temperature in winter rarely gets up to 18C (~68F) dries things fine.

I sympathise with people who live in Ireland (there's a reason it's "The Emerald Isle") and I dare say weather in Maine and parts of Canada wouldn't allow outside drying in winter but surely the inside temperatures, even 68F, should do the trick?

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: maeve
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:03 AM

Our clothes dry just fine in winter here in Maine. Yes, they freeze- that's when the bulk of the dehydration takes place. Once the frozen things (rather a fun challenge in a stiff wind) are inside they thaw to a degree of damp that finishes drying on hangers or on a clothes horse quite easily. If we choose to dry them inside, the woodstoves take care of the job easily and the extra humidity is welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:37 AM

"if dust or smoke is blown your way"

Hehe - we lived in Bundaberg when I was a kid - during cane season, you took your washing in before dusk - those days they used to burn off, and the ash would be in lumps up to 2 inches long and 1/4 inch wide... :-)

Clothes dry better and faster with low humidity, temperature is of less concern. A breeze helps too, by moving more air past the clothes.

My dad told me when in Scotland during WWII, that clothes would freeze stiff when placed wet on lines outside, then evaporate dry anyway.


In Adelaide, clothes once were dried in special cupboards built into most dwellings, in which a heater, often one of those warm water radiators, or a small electric heater, would help to cause a warm dry draught of air to rise thru the cupboard.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:09 AM

I once tore a linen sheet in half trying to get it in off the line one morning, after a particularly sharp frost had frozen it solid. I unpegged one end and automatically tried to fold it to the other corner... mother was not amused.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 May 08 - 08:17 AM

Personally I never use bio powders because of stories of allergies and rashes. And I never use fabric softeners or powders with them.

Having said that all you are left with is a small number of products to choose from.

FWIW fabric softeners work by lubricating the fibres and that means less room for the sweat or drying from towels. I wear 3/4 T-shirts a ceilidh and need that absorbancy.

I did once suggest to a Womens Radio programme that they did an article on "fabric softeners as a fashion statement". The reply said they knew all about it and anyway they liked the feel of soft towels. Case proven - I submit.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 08 May 08 - 10:44 AM

Well once you've been stung or bitten by bees, spiders and worst of all, fire ants you decide to move things inside. Maybe the drying inside had more to do with the humidity of where I've been living. damp and cold tends to leave clothes damp and cold.

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: Bee
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:02 AM

I've been hanging laundry out in the rural air since around 1958 (old enough to reach the clothesline) and never found there was any unusual insect attractant in the procedure. Maybe all those insects were attracted to some laundry product you were using?

Subject: RE: BS: your wash
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:22 AM

Not that I'm aware of. They just ended up where they ended up. I wasn't doing anything to encourage them as far as I know.

I'm not talking about something that occurs regularly, just pointing out a drawback that happened occasionally (but if you're allergic, it only takes one sting...)