Why do people like singarounds?

Subject: Why do people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:02 PM

I like concerts. I like to hear people like Martin Carthy, Brian Peters, Nancy Kerr etc, etc. Basically the 'best'

Lots of people here seem, and good luck to them, to prefer the 'singaround'. Why is that? To me it's sitting for hours listening to rubbish just so that you can sing something badly yourself.

Can someone please explain the appeal?

Thanks,

Dave

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:20 PM

Because it's not all rubbish...

For some it's a chance to experiment, sing along with songs they don't usually sing.

For others, a chance to join in with a large group of people, rather than just singing alone.

Some like the singaround because they get a turn to show off.

Some like it because they hear different songs than those being touted around concerts by booked artistes, who tend to stick to the stuff on the latest CD so they can sell more copies.

I like singarounds for all those reasons.

LTS

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:28 PM

When you sit around and swap songs with others you get to learn many new songs. When you go to concerts you generally go to hear performers do songs that they have already made famous and that you already know.

This experience of learning new songs from others and teaching others songs that they do not know (but you do), is what makes it all worthwile.
                                                    SOL

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:42 PM

GUEST Dave,

Martin Carthy, et. al. do not like me singing along aloud to their songs. At most sing arounds, that behavior is allowed (aloud?). Of course, I would like to go see Martin Carthy, too. Also, I can afford most singarounds. I can't afford all the concerts to which I would like to go. As Rodney King allegedly said, "Why can't we all just get along?"

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:53 PM

There is, unfortunately, more than a hint of truth in what you say 'GUEST, Dave'. If only people would practice more (rather than read from a piece of paper some rubbish that they are too lazy to learn the words to - let alone the tune!).

And then there's the 'session hoggers' who learn the longest songs they can find, just so they can 'hog' as much of the session as possible, and whose talent is inversely proportional to the length of the song - and then they insist on repeating the last f*cking verse!!

Singarounds are good in theory, and you get to hear the occasional gem, which can make it all worthwhile, ... but don't get me started on silly tw*ts who insist on reading bad poetry ...

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Peter Beta
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:55 PM

Because it's marginally preferable to PAYING to sit around for hours on end listening to rubbish : D

(plus, I've seen some acts in singarounds, sessions and open mics who knock the spots off some of the acts you cite, frankly. The race is not always won by the quick, etc., etc.)

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:59 PM

The original way of doing music WAS sitting around sharing. Some of the most amazing music I have heard was at small gatherings where people shared....and it's hard to imagine 'most' of us learning and getting better without feedback and the help of others.

Yes, sometimes you get some pretty tedious sessions, and THAT situation and its cause & cures have been discussed here many times.

It takes a litte effort to make things work sometimes, but when it does, it's magic.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:04 PM

I love concerts and have been to many fantastic ones and will continue to do so. I'm not particularly interested in folk clubs... but I love a decent singaround. I can't imagine anything much better than a bunch of people who love this music sitting in the side room of a pub and belting it out. It's not about talent or technical skill or star quality or any of the other bullshit but rather about sheer enthusiasm and something raw and untamed and almost feral. You can't fake that.

Having said that, I've just spent the evening in the Beech in Chorlton, which is a bit like all your christmases coming at once...

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: skipy
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:07 PM

GUEST thread!
Singarounds, what would I know, but some of my best times have been hanging around the edges of singarounds, no more of course because they don't seem to happen in smoking sheds, but who knows, the might!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:11 PM

What Nigel said (hi Nigel). I too have just got back from a singaround, by an amazing coincidence the same one Nigel was at. This here World Wide Web, eh?

All I'll say is that, in my experience, there are precious few experiences that leave you with a silly grin stuck on your face for half an hour afterwards, and even fewer that allow you to keep your clothes on. A good singaround is one such. That'll do me.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:18 PM

Hi Phil - that'll be the same grin I'm wearing, then!

cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:22 PM

What Bill D said. I like song circles and singarounds because there is a sharing that happens no other way. Even if one doesn't feel like singing at times, I can hear and file/learn a lot of songs that I would hear no other way. I can't tell you how many songs I know today because of it.

And what Phil Edwards said. What a great feeling that silly grin bespeaks!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:23 PM

Me, too, to the positive comments so far in this thread, but there's one no one has mentioned, which is simply that you get to meet people, which is something many of us like to do. A lot of the people I think of as friends around here are people I met at a regular series of singarounds I went to 15 years ago. Singarounds can help to build a community.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Sorcha
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:32 PM

Uh, because they are FUN??????

I don't sing, but I do play....and what I hate is when I'm not allowed to skip a turn....when I MUST pick a tune and lead it. Why can't I be allowed to skip a turn if I want to?

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Kiwi Guest
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:54 PM

We run a monthly sing around in our home, Almost all the evenings are magic. Many people who regularly come to our place are extremely good performers, but that is not the point. It is the sharing and socialising
that counts. To me the folk scene should be participatory. Whilst I like seeing artist playing at concerts, something tells me that a "Professional Folk Singer" is an oxymoron.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Gulliver
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:58 PM

I like being with a bunch of people, having a chat and a laugh, a few bevvies and singing a few songs. Like last Monday, just walked into a pub in Pearse St. with a friend, and happened to have the guitar, and in no time a sing-song started and we all had a ball. Don't have much interest in festivals, concerts, telly or the like. Don

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:00 PM

The best singarounds I've been to are in the Middle Bar in Sidmouth. Shoulder to shoulder singing chorus after chorus, everyone competing for different harmonies and the hairs on the back of my neck raised. It's a wonderful feeling 'running with the pack' and if you've never experienced that, Sidmouth Festival is a great place to start. It's fun, exciting, and a great way to make friends; to join one of the biggest families ever.

OK so we have to tolerate the nervous first timers and those who can't carry a tune, remember the words, etc but we've all been there at some time or another. Singarounds are a great place to gain confidence.

Oh babble babble....

Sal

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 08 - 08:46 PM

The best surprises almost always come at singarounds/song sessions: the wall of harmonies when "Byker Hill" goes just right, the frisson when a guitarist puts an unexpected blues-like riff behind "Haul Away for Rosie", the eye-closing tension when a plainly nervous singer conveys the sheer murder of the industrial revolution, simply the best version of "Blue Tattoo" I've ever heard with two killer guitarists running the riffs round each other and a viper of a mandolin line nagging away to it, the cultural shock when our very own Wild Rover first put "The Wild Rover" to the tune of "Stairway to Heaven", the wash of emotion when Show of Hands' "Roots" rings off in harmony with an almost nightclub boogie from a chunk of bodhrans, the thrill as a whole pub goes into an awed hush for an (unnamed for this purpose) female singer as she hits every note of a traditional song like a big bell.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk on works PC
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:05 AM

I can't understand the reasoning behind this thread.

Why do you like butter & I like margarine?
Why do you like red & I like blue?

If you don't like singarounds don't go.

But I find the contradictions on this forum fascinating.
There is the view that 'folk' is the music that is passed aurally thru generations via singarounds whether family get-togethers or work places or the local pub.
The 'names' who appear at concerts must have learned their craft at singarounds otherwise they are not folk by the above reasoning.
So, on the one hand we have purists who insist on aural transmission who also insist that only 'professionals' are good enough.

Most of the source recordings I have heard are very poor, partly due to the quality of equipment available & partly due to the 'untrained' performer.
But the content is priceless!
Same with singarounds!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:21 AM

Interesting how much of the positive comment in this thread hinges on harmony, communal singing. In Ireland, this is a relatively small part of what happens at singing sessions/singarounds. When the emphasis is strongly on solo, unaccompanied singing, the balance and equilibrium are a bit more difficult to maintain! At a recent session, following a bit of a run of solemn, not to say lugubrious and long songs, I injected a short funny song (a Boy Scout version of Lord Randall !) to change the mood. As soon as I finished, a guy leaned over to me and remarked " Thanks for that! I was about to head out, have a last smoke and slit my wrists!"

Regards

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Gurney
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:23 AM

Like Sorcha says, because they're fun.

Just because you are not very good, it doesn't mean that you don't want to sing, and dammit, where else can you sing? Where else can you get constuctive criticism, and have fun doing it.

Maybe this thread is another manifestation of the modern attitude that you find when you try to buy a recording device. "You want a MP3 player, sir!" "No I don't, I want something I can record WITH." "You can record with an MP3 player, sir!" "No you can't. You can only copy recordings with it." "Ah, you want the Bloggsworth. I'll order you one. They are $3200!."


I remember tape recorders.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:29 AM

I guess it's a question of whether you like to make music yourself, or whether you'd prefer to pay somebody else to make it for you.

I like both. Guess I can have my cake and eat it, huh?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Hawker
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:38 AM

Singarounds are a place to share with others the joy of singing - sharing songs together, something that isn't always there at a concert. It is a place where you are more relaxed and can share songs that perhaps you otherwise wouldn't - that does though depend on the type of singaround too! A good MC to keep the continuity going is also important, you dont want a run of fifteen 20 verse ballads with no chorus one after another! If you know your group of singers, you can altenate a chorus song with a ballad to keep the thing flowing well.
For me, who had a transient ischaemic attack a few years ago, my memory sometimes will not now allow me the ability to remember all the words, though I do try, do practise and know the tunes to what I am singing! I more often than not have my words there as a safety net,I am sure there are others like me, but I do agree, if you are going to sing from a sheet, at least try it a few times at home before you inflict it on the general public!
Also running a folk club, as I have for the past year now, I have seen people come just to listen, then flourish into performers...that did mean we had to listen to the bad as well as the good, but the improvement and confidence these people have gained from being allowed to do so is amazing and I'm so glad they had a go!
Finally, I have paid good money to go to concerts in the past to see performers purported to be fantastiuc and been bitterly disappointed. It can go both ways!
Still its all down to taste, you do your thing and Ill do mine, as long as we both enjoy what we are doing, I dont suppose it really matters does it!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Banjiman
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:30 AM

They're fun and where else do you start out if want to "perform". Occasionally you hear something absolutely brilliant.

From review of KFFC winter Warmer Weekend:

"I must mention the singarounds again....I walked into the bar at one point on Saturday and the beautiful sound of singing completely blew me away....2 Black Sheep, Keeper's Fold, Young 'uns, Mick McGarry and everyone else in the room all singing their heads off with perfect harmonies together.....the hairs on the back of my neck were standing on end....the very essence of "folk" music...perfect!"

Paul

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:42 AM

They are great!! I started singing when my Morris Dancing side went into the pubs at the end of an evenings dancing. By listening to the songs that they sang, I was encouraged to go away and learn some of my owm. That gave me the confidence to start going to singarounds.

I often sang with the words in front of me, but only for a quick glance - that magic safety net (Besides, I remember seeing Steve Knightly at a Show of Hands concert come on stage in the second half and say that the song that he was about to sing had only been written and performed once, a week and a half before - so he got the words out and cellotaped them to his mike stand - if he can do it, then so can any of us without feeling inferior!!)

If I hear a song that I like in a session, I will go away and find it, learn it and the do it - be it traditional or contemporary.

Yes, there are the Super Ego performers out there, but there are also a lot of VERY talented people who are NOT in your face and who need to be encouraged, despite having natural talent!!

We should be careful of mocking those who are unable to carry a tune or need props etc. Each one of us could be in that position - the fact that many of us are fortunate enough to have a dash of talent and ability to show it off in public is great for us. Remember, at least they are having a go and trying to join in!! Some Morris Dancers can't dance very well - does that mean that we should exclude them? All Of Us are helping to keep alive something that is very special - long may that be the case, and if that were the only reason for the existance of singarounds, then Long Live The Singaround!!

PLUG!! There will be a twelve hour long singaround in The Chequers Pub in Aylesford, Nr Maidstone, Kent on Saturday 28th June 2008. This is part of the Aylesford Village Festival 2008. It would be great to see you there - further details at www.aylesfordvillagefestival.co.uk

Kev

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Nigel Spencer
Date: 08 May 08 - 08:32 AM

Joe said: "I guess it's a question of whether you like to make music yourself, or whether you'd prefer to pay somebody else to make it for you.

I like both. Guess I can have my cake and eat it, huh?"

And hit the nail right on the head. Well said that man!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: old git
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:23 AM

I'm With Joe Offer on this one too.

geoff t

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Northerner
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:41 AM

Singarounds are a great place to go when you're learning your skills. You can try things out without worrying about how you compare to a paid guest. There are generally some experienced performers there that you can learn from. And people do move from being newcomers who start out in singarounds to being guests, paid performers. I started out in singarounds - and storyrounds. Now I've got some paid bookings.

Diane

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Old Roger
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:43 AM

We have a strong singaround at The Wolf Folk Club in Norfolk. We normally have about 30 to perform with an audience of 40 or 50. The main thrust is encouragement to sing or play. We have some performing at professional level and some utter beginners. They do their bit for the community on a totally equal basis.

My philosophy is summed up in this which I wrote recently to nervous but very capable melodeon player.

STARTS>>
Once upon a time, not so long ago people played and sang for their families, their friends and their communities. They had a sense of worth and self-esteem and a place in the community because their services were in demand and appreciated. Then came the radio and the recording industries. A double edged sword. It did as much damage as it did good. It brought us the best from all over the world, entertaining us, delighting us and teaching us something new. There arose from it a spectre which I call "Broadcast Quality" and that spectre has haunted everyone who has ever been tempted to perform in public. It created a new standard by which every performer would feel they would be measured. A standard so high that few could possibly attain it. People were now ashamed of their nakedness, disincentivised to perform or even to enjoy listening to Auntie Mabel and Uncle George doing their music hall party pieces like they used to. Ordinary people were out of a job. It is easier to switch on the telly or the radio or play a CD than to entertain ourselves and we don't have to suffer a second class performance. No longer do we need to struggle to learn to play an instrument or to memorise tunes or the words to a song. Commerce doesn't recommend it either. They are very happy to take over the menial tasks of entertaining you, all you have to do is pay, it's so easy, why bother. "Fast Music" and "Take Away" music was invented before "Fast food". Nobody has any reason to want to provide their own entertainment ever again.

There are some other benefits to making music and self entertainment which never get talked about and which the worlds of commercial entertainment studiously avoid drawing our attention to. For instance, the importance of "Community" and getting together with other people. Sharing in endeavours. Sharing in pleasure and experience, Appreciating the richness of human variety and human creativity. Appreciation of the human story and the heroism of difficulties overcome. For instance, ****** who walks about with two sticks and comes every Wolf Folk Club meeting to play his guitar even though he has MS. He used to be a really good player until MS slowly and insidiously began robbing him of his capabilities. Everyone in the room appreciates his playing and singing but it is the absolute antithesis of "Broadcast Quality". So you see BQ isn't everything. Making mistakes and being nervous and struggling to achieve, are all part of the human story and the folk club is a place where the human story is told. It is a very interesting and engaging story. I like to create an environment where ordinary people can do their thing and be appreciated like they used to before radios were invented. Broadcast Quality is the enemy of that aspiration so I do not allow it to come in through the door.

<<
We have guests on a different night to the singaround and don't mix the two.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:58 AM

I am a singer/musician but NOT a performer.

I go to singarounds because,

I am curious to know what other people are doing musically.

I often enjoy what I hear.

It is fun to show off.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 08 May 08 - 12:02 PM

An interesting and moving post from 'Old Roger' (a bit of an antidote to my rather sour contribution above - but I am a curmudgeonly old git and just a little bit proud of it!).

May the The Wolf Folk Club in Norfolk prosper and thrive!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 08 - 02:49 PM

if you do musicianing as a job, its often a bit solitary.

at a singaround you meet mates, hear their work in progress, have a chat about stuff, you meet new people.

anyway what else are you going to do - watch UK Gold, listen to disembodied voices come out of the stereo, study for s degree in folk music, argue with people on mudcat who once owned a longplayer of Martin Carthy, or it could have been Cat Stevens - they're very similar; both play guitars

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Folknacious
Date: 08 May 08 - 02:59 PM

They can be social fun, but never confuse them with entertainment. They're not for people to listen to, but to join in with.

Personally I prefer a good tune session to a singaround any day, because a) it's a lot easier to join in and learn something quietly when everybody is playing all at once and b) mostly everybody is playing all at once, which is even more inclusive social fun than sitting around waiting for your turn. Oh, and crap singing is far far worse and more embarrassing to sit through than somebody playing badly, buried in a tune-up.

Make sense?

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 08 - 03:16 PM

if you suffer from being embarrassed - its not going to be your sort of night.

on the other hnd, you could end up the star of the show.

you could be ...Nancy!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 May 08 - 03:25 PM

I agree with Lucy (Hawker) - and I'd be mortified if any singaround I ran matched Guest Dave's description. Many "professional" singers booked at festivals, who learned their craft at singarounds, are still happy to turn up, listen and join in when it's their turn.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 08 May 08 - 04:44 PM

Many thanks for all your thoughts. I certainly wasn't wanting to criticise anyone.

Maybe I'll give them another try. But each to their own as has been said...

Thanks,

Dave

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:00 PM

I think it is another example of country differences. Here in the U.S., people enjoy both and do not think to compare the two.   Sort of like asking if you prefer a spoon or a bowl - both please!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:02 PM

Given the above, I shall certainly walk out if a fat and/or tone deaf woman attempts to sing Leon Rosselson's "Don't get married girls"

Nah, I shall walk out if any woman sings it....

I might stay if a man tried it!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Joe_F
Date: 08 May 08 - 09:20 PM

At the sings I am familiar with, you are allowed to pass when your turn comes, or ask someone else to lead a song.

IMO, the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 09 May 08 - 04:35 AM

the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness.

Perfect!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:31 AM

I intended to go to a shanty singaround last night in Devon. I arrived in the pub and found about half a dozen people gathering for the evening. They bought their drinks but left the main bar and shut themselves in a side room away from the public. I didn't go into the room because I felt they had deliberately excluded themselves from sharing their songs and I felt it had become an 'us and them' situation. I thought it anti-social and left for the pub I prefer anyway.

These people were armed with song books and bits of paper and it was all so serious. Where's the fun in that? Get a life, I thought, and left!

Sal

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Nick
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:57 AM

"the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness."

Is this being a happy idiot?

Look at the happy idiot
He doesn't give a damn
I wish I was an idiot
Oh god I think I am

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:16 AM

I love singarounds for all the above reasons.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:28 AM

Does Mr Dave sing?
If so where did he start?
If not - case solved.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 May 08 - 09:36 AM

Dunno, Mr Red - I've sung to an audience many more times than I've sung at singarounds, and I actually find it easier in some ways. Singarounds are more enjoyable, though.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 09 May 08 - 10:39 AM

Ms Lemon, barge into that room and introduce yourself!

People at a singaround are learning and sharing, not "performing". Thus they do not want to annoy the people in the main room with starts and stops and sight-reading-along-with stuff. They are all learning new songs and having a good experience, but they are sensitive that someone in the pub for a drink and nosh and chat with friends don't need to hear all their humble imperfection. Sounds like they were being polite not rude.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: MMario
Date: 09 May 08 - 10:54 AM

I agree with Phil Edwards that singing to an "audience" is easier then a sing-around.

Though - for example - at a venue like the FSGW Getaway - there isn't much difference between a sing-around and the "concerts" - and for me, extremely intimidating!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 09 May 08 - 10:59 AM

I usually find singarounds enjoyable, interesting, and even entertaining (dirty word to some!) - and I remember years ago looking forward to seeing the "master" in concert, only to be seriously disappointed. Fortunately for him, my perception of his music/persona differs greatly from many thousands of others.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Mrs Scarecrow
Date: 09 May 08 - 12:39 PM

Singarounds are my favourite and I regularly miss concerts at festivals because |I am enjoying them so much and the quality is so good. Additionally if someone not very good is singing you know it is only going to last a few minutes If the concert you go to see is not good it carries on that way a lot longer.
Sing arounds also provide an arena for songwriters such as myself to test out the reception to new songs. Strangely you do not always know which songs will prove popular and I certainly would not have continued with some of my songs but for the reception they got.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Marje
Date: 09 May 08 - 01:38 PM

I think the main reasons I like singarounds are:

The opportunity to sing, both alone when it's my turn and with others when there's a chorus.
The surprise element of not knowing who's going to turn up, and who's going to delight you with a great new song (or a great old song).
The in-between-songs banter and crack - singing creates a bond among the singers, which fosters social contacts and friendships.There's also a chance to give and receive some informal feedback about the various songs and performances.

All of this can, of course, fail to materialise at the very worst singarounds, but on most occasions I find I can tick off all three of the above benefits.

Marje

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,wuzzle
Date: 09 May 08 - 02:16 PM

I think singarounds are really wonderful not only are there a great variety of singers out there but also a wealth of wonderful songs I do enjoy concerts, but it is so special to hear and see folk, sharing songs and having fun, if there is someone that sings out of tune listen to the words, and help them with the choruses it isn't long before they can hold a tune, and that in it's self has given them something special.
lovely people in singarounds gave me the confidence to sing and write songs :-) (they didn,t throw me out, or run away screaming)
and now we just have so much fun. and more fun and .....

Wuzzle on frans computer

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Tootler
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:02 PM

Singarounds are first and foremost about joining in. That's what makes them so enjoyable. It is also the major reason they are different from concerts.

You are not forced to join in, but the MC at a singaround will usually ask you if you want to take your turn. Even if you don't want to or don't feel confident about singing when it's your turn, you can always join in the choruses. Someone said they prefer sessions because you can join in quietly if you are not very confident (or something like that). You can do the same with choruses.

I also enjoy sessions because, like singarounds, they are about joining in.

Both singarounds and sessions are social occasions where people get together to share a common interest.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Diva
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:32 PM

Because they are fun

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:51 PM

I've posted this on a thread before, so sorry to those who've alredat seen it but it seemed pertinent here:-

My New Song

I learned to sing a brand new song
Learned it well and felt so proud
But all my dreams would turn to ashes
When I went along to that singaround

I practised hard, both night and day
Memorised the words on every page
It sounded so good in the bathroom
And now the world would be my stage

As I went into that crowded room
I felt wound up like a coiled spring
But when I'd sat down in that circle
I did a very stupid thing

I sat in the only empty place
Where the turn to sing had just moved past
Now I'd have to sit around for hours
Oh woe is me ! Oh, damn and blast

It started with a gruesome murder ballad
Which ended on the gallows high
But not till after 42 verses
When it was done, I heaved a sigh

Then some pissed up clown
Started a sea shanty
With a drunken chorus a dozen times or more
By the time he'd reached the Bay of Biscay
The clock had ticked another half an hour

Then an intense young man with a Takamine
Bared his soul to all in a self penned song
All about a failed relationship
It seemed an eternity till we moved on

And several more painful dirges later
When things had sunk to an all time low
From under a seat appears a melodeon
Just wind him up and off he'll go

And then this bloke waltzes in and sits down
He arrived at least two hours after me
He must be up the organiser's backside
'Cos he gets to sing almost straight away

And once again it was a marathon performance
As despondency filled up the room
Till someone did a Leonard Cohen song
Just to lighten up the gloom

And after what seemed an eternity
My turn had come, take a deep breath
Now is my chance for retribution
I'll make sure I get my pound of flesh

        I'll make this song go on forever
Stress every syllable and line
I'll get my own back on those bastards
That kept me waiting all that time
I'll go on, slowly on

        I'll sing so loud I'll give them earache
        Let them know my time has come
They can forget about the beer break
As no-one's moving till I'm done

And as for those who carry on talking
Or crunching crisps at them I'll glare
And as for going to the toilet
        I'll just say "don't you bloody dare"

        I'll make this song go on forever
Stress every syllable and line
I'll get my own back on those bastards
That kept me waiting all that time
I'll go on, slowly on and on and on…etc

Having said that , the above is a worst case scenario, and I do, in fact, love singarounds - let's fact it, we've all got a bit of an ego otherwise we wouldn't want to perform!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 May 08 - 03:53 PM

...Oh, it's to the tune of "El Dorado"

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:06 PM

Acorn4, that's a great bit of work there!!

Hunting around now to find a Midi of the El Dorado tune - bet I'll recognise it when I hear it!!!

I might see if I can learn that if you don't mind.

Kev

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 09 May 08 - 05:17 PM

'Thus they do not want to annoy the people in the main room with starts and stops and sight-reading-along-with stuff. They are all learning new songs and having a good experience, but they are sensitive that someone in the pub for a drink and nosh and chat with friends don't need to hear all their humble imperfection. Sounds like they were being polite not rude. ' Nope... the pub was empty. Maybe 2 people sitting at the far end but otherwise it was empty. I maintain... us and them.

'Singarounds are first and foremost about joining in. That's what makes them so enjoyable.' Absolutely!

Sal

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Nick
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:00 PM

>>I maintain... us and them.

In a pub with three people in the main part of the pub (including you) YOU were the them they were the US. It was you who didn't engage (to their loss or yours) and to your regret

Very hard.

Come up to North Yorkshire (PM me before you come) and we'll make you welcome

I went to a club in Lymm before it closed which took itself away into a room and prided itself on its singing and its welcoming and it didn't work for me as I felt such an outsider that I felt unwelcome

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Acorn4
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:57 PM

Kev -that's fine - go ahead.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 10 May 08 - 04:17 AM

I would love to come up to North Yorkshire. I'll take you up on the offer when the festival season has finished; October time.

I would have gone into the room with the singers, but the bits of paper put me off a bit. I like spontaneity with a jolly good chorus. Anyway I was actually with a group of people who aren't ready for this serious side of 'club' singing.

Sal

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 10 May 08 - 04:24 AM

On our recent holiday on the Isle of Wight we dropped in on the Singaround session at the Dairyman's daughter to see Steve Parkes & friends. We were impressed by the unobtrusive way they took turns and the wide range of styles and abilities represented: a ,definition of companionship, I guess. My minders were impressed that I restrained myself from joining in: they had their Tazers ready for nothing!

RtS

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 May 08 - 08:51 AM

Concerts are good if you are into voyeurism. I like the intimacy of a singaraound and those shivery moments of vocal and instrumental orgy.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 May 08 - 10:35 AM

sing-a-rounds are less intimidating for me.
With an audience, depending on context, you generally have all eyes on you. Sing-a-round less eyes and less directly looking at you.

Those eyes are a pressure. You either need it or you feel it negatively. Different strokes for different folks.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Greenacres
Date: 10 May 08 - 11:29 AM

Like a lot of others on this thread, I think singarounds are what it's all about - singing, songs, learning, exchange, community, continuity, change, belonging, expanding, sharing, bonding. You can't beat a good singaround and you can't fail to learn something good in a 'bad' one. Songbooks and library resources are (very valuable) contributors to the real thing. Guest performers and recordings fuel, perpetuate and inspire it. Me, I love and am grateful for 'em all!

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 May 08 - 12:47 PM

Sing-a-round less eyes and less directly looking at you.

But more eyes belonging to respected (sometimes highly respected) fellow performers, looking at you more concentratedly. In my experience as a floor singer and a singaround participant, singarounds are more challenging. When they go well they're wonderful, but the bar's higher - you can't just wander along and busk it.

Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 May 08 - 01:28 PM

Another thing, theres no real pressure at singarounds. Nowadays I do more floorspots than paid gigs.

I have a gig in week or two - and I really am thinking - what on earth shall I do that won't bore them all stupid, I don't want to do all the same old rubbish.

Whereas anybody can be fresh and simulating for two or three numbers.

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Acorn4
Date: 10 May 08 - 08:14 PM

I do both singarounds and gigs - I've sold more CDs at singarounds than at gigs.

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 May 08 - 08:47 PM

In a mature singaround it's really more than the songs, it's the other singers (and instrumentalists) as well. I find it interesting when a particular person is leading a new song, how that song fits in with their repertoire or how it fits in with what others have just sung. There are all kinds of choices, some deliberate (I'm going to sing my song anyway), some responsive (that song reminds me of...), some a mixture of both.

Some prefer to sing the same songs over and over again. Some want to try new songs that they don't quite know very well. Either can be irritating or a delight. It depends on your expectations.

I do like to see song circle members grow, take flight so to speak, and confound their "mentors" with what they've learned or created.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, who frequents the Press Room gathering in Portsmouth, NH

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Rumncoke
Date: 11 May 08 - 11:16 AM

With 300 songs and a failing memory I often find that in a singaround I realise that a song I have not sung in public for 20 years will just fit with the flow of the circle and then - assuming I can find it in my book which now serves as backup memory - I find I am singing a song that other people also suddenly remember or I see that it is something new for at least one or two. I am often asked to write out words or give a source.

I do smile when I am asked who recorded it, or what disc it is on.

I seem doomed to hear songs only live - this pc is inhabited by a malevolent spirit which blocks internet access to such things - or it might be the DH, who does not like my music and singing.

I can't use it to watch DVDs either, as it will play the background music but not the dialogue.

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: foggers
Date: 11 May 08 - 12:17 PM

Communal singing is probably one of the oldest forms of human activity, (apart from the more obvious biological habits, that is!!) for recreation and building and sharing identity and relationships. I have experienced what feels like an almost primal shiver when something special happens between people at a singaround.

And the point made about the negative impact of "Broadcast Quality" is an excellent one. My OH has a lovely baritone voice but he is convinced that he cannot sing, because he was told this for years. Going to singarounds is a gentle and supportive way to help people find their voice, and to have fun sharing, learning and harmonising together. I agree all the points about needing a skilful MC in order to get the balance right, but singarounds can be very special indeed.

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Tootler
Date: 11 May 08 - 06:34 PM

foggers wrote;

My OH has a lovely baritone voice but he is convinced that he cannot sing, because he was told this for years.

My experience as well. What changed it for me was going to an option session at an early music summer school for "those who thought they couldn't sing" and finding I could sing, though I was still not a bit confident. Later that year I found a weekend workshop called "Singing for the tone deaf". It was brilliant! The tutor was very encouraging and he used piano accompaniment to adapt to the pitch of the singers so you could find a pitch that was comfortable. If he felt the pitch was wrong for the group he would just transpose into another key until he found one that suited the group so that we were able to find our voice.

It took me another three years to attempt to sing at a singaround. I used to just play tunes, but I tried singing a song one time and nobody seemed to wince or look as if anything was wrong, so I carried on. I have found people to be encouraging for the most part. Remarks like "I like the songs you sing" or "You sang that one well" and an overheard "I do like Geoff's voice" during the break have helped my confidence no end. I got "you sang that one well tonight, Geoff" last night which I much appreciated.

One very useful tip I got from the singing weekend was to use an instrument to find out where your voice lay. I used my electronic keyboard and simply played single notes and sang them back until I had found the highest and lowest note I could comfortably sing. If you know where your voice lies, it helps tremendously.

Geoff

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: mg
Date: 12 May 08 - 12:20 AM

I like the music that can be produced by a group of good singers. I am so shallow though that unless the music is pretty good most of the time, or at least some of the time, it isn't worth it to me for the other aspects...I would rather have a potluck or a chitchat and skip the music if that is the case. We could still bond however. My ears have to be happy. Especially now that I have almost no music except for a couple of music camps a year. I want it to be really really good and no blue books please. mg

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 12 May 08 - 04:49 AM

"the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness".

Or as Ron Baxter (notorious Worst Singer in the World at Fyldes past, songwriter extraordinaire, and MC of some of the best singarounds) would say "If a thing's worth doing well, it's worth doing badly!"

Ross

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Mr Red
Date: 12 May 08 - 08:03 AM

methinks this is a personal perception.
If you percieve it so then a singaround or from the stage can be daunting.

If you are relaxed about it, then it is less daunting.

Now what allows you the comfort of being relaxed and still perform well? As opposed to being so relaxed there is no incentive to perform well?

discuss.........

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Phil at work
Date: 12 May 08 - 08:26 AM

Now what allows you the comfort of being relaxed and still perform well?

It comes in a glass.

As opposed to being so relaxed there is no incentive to perform well?

See above!

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: Jassplayer
Date: 12 May 08 - 08:39 AM

We have scheduled nine slots for sing-arounds at this year's fetsival. We have the advantage of the use of a very comfortable venue right down the street from the main performance areas that has a fireplace and living room feel and we're putting a different performer in charge of the proceedings for an hour each, thus giving some formal aegis to what we hope will also occur spontaneously at different times and places throughout the four-day festival.
It's one way to address the inherent anomaly in *performance* of *folk music.*
The Taunton River Folk festival, Oct. 10-13, 2008

Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 12 May 08 - 09:52 AM

Don't worry about it Dave. If you don't like it don't go. It really is that simple.I love malt whisky but hate gin so I do not bother to analyze why I just don't drink gin.
Singalongs are just a social events where like minded people do what they enjoy doing together so, as I said, if you are not of that mind do something else, like write to Mudcat.
You could argue 'why to people write to Mudcat which is boring rather than listen to the much more intellectual discussions on Radio 4'
It's all to do with being a part of something.