BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement

Subject: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 09:14 AM

A small one, to be sure. And one where the margin could be overturned in usual Democratic leadership Machiavellian style...

But when you combine the House vote to cut off funding for the Iraq war, with the closing down of the West Coast ports by labor union activisits on May Day, there is a glimmer of hope...

Here is a link to the article from The Progressive on the May 15th House vote:

http://www.progressive.org/mag_wx0516c08

A victory, no matter how small, is still a victory!

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 09:30 AM

And everyone who is opposed to the continuation of the war--especially of ever increasing appropriations to continue to expand the war (as this and all the funding appropriations have been), should write to every member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus who keeps going to bat against the pro-war Democratic leadership, and thank them for their hard work on this crucial vote.

And the fact that no one here has mentioned this vote at all, makes me think the most here suffer from what Howard Zinn refers to as the "election madness". Rather than doing the actual work of a democracy, the majority of the left is every bit as bamboozled and mesmerized by the horse race and the media, leading to serious problems keeping eyes focused on the prize.

Fortunately, we have AfterDowningStreet.org, Code Pink, United for Peace and Justice, and Iraq Veterans Against the War keeping THEIR eyes on the prize, even while their fellow lefties remain obsessed and absorbed by the horse race.

So screw you Pelosi, Hoyers, Clyburn, Emmanuel in the House, Reid, Durbin, et al & all in the Senate, but especially all three major party candidates in the horse race, pro-war through and through.

We won one!

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 10:03 AM

And if you go to IraqMoratorium.org, you can see what you can do to help nudge the Senate vote in the right direction. That vote may take place as early as this coming Tues, May 20th.

Details on the Senate bill:
The plan in the Senate is similar to the plan in the House: 3 separate amendments to be voted on separately.

1. $169 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through the summer of next year.
2. More than $25 billion in new domestic spending.

3. A measure that sets a goal for the president to transition troops out of a military role in Iraq by June 2009, and includes troop readiness standards.
UFPJ as a coalition is focusing our advocacy efforts on the $169 Billion funding amendment. We are not taking a position on the two other amendments -- although individual member groups may.

What lies ahead:
At each step of the way, we have an opportunity to raise our voices. If we loose one round, we can come back and score a victory in the next. We were very strong in round #1, when the House voted. We heard from Congressional staff that phones were ringing off the hook. Although the targets will change, and the funding bill will keep getting re-written, our message will be: Vote NO on any money to continue the war and occupation of Iraq!! Here are the next steps:

Step #2: Senate will vote as early as May 20 on the Iraq funding.

Step #3: After the Senate votes, most likely a Conference Committee made up of members of the House and Senate will reconcile the House-passed and Senate-passed versions of the bill. At this point our targets will be the conferees. This could happen as early as May 21!

Step #4: The compromise bill created by the conference committee will go to the House and the Senate for a vote. It is possible that this may happen before Congress breaks for Memorial Day recess (Friday, May 23).

Step #5: If both the House and the Senate pass the compromise bill, it will go to Bush. He has vowed to veto the bill if it contains any restrictions on his power to wage endless war, or if it includes any domestic spending that might actually help people in this country. If he does veto the bill then we will have to see what Congress does and so we may have to continue this effort.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 May 08 - 10:33 AM

And the fact that no one here has mentioned this vote at all, makes me think the most here suffer from what Howard Zinn refers to as the "election madness". Rather than doing the actual work of a democracy, the majority of the left is every bit as bamboozled and mesmerized by the horse race and the media, leading to serious problems keeping eyes focused on the prize.

*sigh* Or, could it be we are already taking action and feel no need to come in here, spouting off, denigrating others, and being a holier-than-thou-whatever? If you put half of the energy into doing the REAL stuff out in the REAL world as you do here, you wouldn't have time to start thread after thread castigating the lot of us.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 10:37 AM

I rather doubt people here even have it on their radar, katlaughing, which is why I continue to challenge people here the same way I challenge people in my 3D everyday life about it.

I am quite aware of how I am loathed for troubling Mudcat's waters. I wear that as a badge of honor, in fact. If I didn't piss people off, I wouldn't be doin' my job.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: CarolC
Date: 17 May 08 - 11:17 AM

This is good news. I got an email alert about the house vote. I expect I'll be getting another one about the Senate vote.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 11:29 AM

I took the pledge & joined up last fall w/these folks. They aren't very active locally (they are going in guns blazing in Wisconsin, but then they have folks like Russ Feingold & Tammy Baldwin, who are leading the charge against the war in Congress.

I do a lot of agitating online (this is the only place I get spanked for it, BTW--other web fora I participate in not only appreciate the news from the moratorium front lines, but often leap in the fray to take action pretty frequently), have the bumper stickers, window signs, buttons, etc. and if nothing else, a lot of my students want to talk about the actions, the war, etc. So most my best work is done brainwashing America's future generations to be anti-militarism and anti-American empire. :)

Locally, everyone on the anti-war left seems obsessed with the horse race, and determined to be fenced in at the RNC in September.

Yawn. Like protesting at the RNC will have an effect on anything--no thanks. If I could, I'd be in Denver this August, protesting in front of the DNC.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 12:25 PM

And the liberal elite hand wringing has begun in earnest, to wit the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/us/politics/16web-hulse.html?ref=politics

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: bobad
Date: 17 May 08 - 12:49 PM

ARTIST: Mac Davis
TITLE: It's Hard to Be Humble

{Refrain}
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror 'cause I get better lookin' each day
To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can

/ D - - A7 / - - - D / - - D7 G / - D A7 D /

I used to have a girlfriend but I guess she just couldn't compete
With all these love starved women who keep clamoring at my feet
Well I probably could find me another but I guess they're all in awe of me
Who cares I never get lonesome 'cause I treasure my own company

/ DG D - A7 / " / " / " /

{Refrain}

I guess you could say I am a loner, a cowboy all locked up and proud
Well I could have lots of friends if I wanted, but then I wouldn't stand out in a crowd
Some folks say that I'm egotistical - hell I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do with the way that I fill out my skin tight blue jeans

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:03 PM

I'm with kat. Too busy to waste time arguing with you, FantasyWorld. Question: what took you so long to pick up on this? And what are you doing besides indulging in your usual smug, superior snottiness?

Sheesh!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:11 PM

"I am quite aware of how I am loathed for troubling Mudcat's waters."

I don't loathe you. You piss me off at times, but that's not for your political views. I happen to share most of yours. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:13 PM

And trust me, lady, it ain't your job to piss me off.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:20 PM

"And trust me, lady, it ain't your job to piss me off."

Meant to add that that job is already been taken by the governemnets of Canada, USA and Great Britain. (If I have failed to offend any Mudcatter with this post please message me and I shall include your country, too.)

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:38 PM

Clearly, people here perceive me as a bigger threat to their sanity than the Republican and Democrat war mongers.

I mean, just look at all the usual suspects here who love to loathe me.

Why I am so flattered! Just like always, they can't keep their fingers off the 'Submit Message' button when they see me posting. They just HAVE to tell me how despicable they find me, rather than just click their 'Forum Home' button when they see it is l'il ole me.

Odd, how I seem to be a greater threat to the nation to them on any topic, but there you have it!

Have a nice day Don, Katlaughing, Amos and Peace!

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:48 PM

The problem isn't in the House but the Senate... Most of us fully understand the math there...

Yes, the Dem's could use the "nuclear option" and change the rules and, frankly, I would love to see that but then after Bush vetoed whatever was sent to him it would take 66 Senators to over-ride...

And let's make no bones about it, at the very least the House would have to provide a certain amount of fund for diasengement and that is precisely what Bush would veto...

The numbers aren't there, Fantz...

...yet...

Yeah, this is the reality on the ground inside the Beltway and as much as it sucks it it what it is...

The best the dems can do just be an irritant to Bush...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:56 PM

No one expected the anti-war Dems to prevail yesterday, Bobert. Not even themselves.

The only reason why they did prevail, was because of the Republican abstention votes.

So thanks, I'll continue to put my faith in the Representatives and political activists who actually are working to end the war, rather than phony presidential candidates who say what their polling and focus groups tell them to say in order to get elected.

I much prefer the company of the former, thank you very much.

To say "best the Dems can do" is just an out and out lie.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 08 - 02:02 PM

I don't loathe you FantasyHead. You're just not important. But I tend to pity you for being such a self-righteous dip-shit.

It's the same problem I had with a lot (not all, but a lot) of hard-charging peaceniks and anti-war protestors back in the Sixties. All anger, no smarts. This, along with the hypocrisy of sitting there in the back room of the Blue Moon Tavern (in this case, read "Mudcat Café") with a schooner of beer in front of them chewing other people out for sitting in the back room with a schooner of beer in front of them instead of being out somewhere protesting, storming the barricades, and starting the bloody revolution.

The unfortunate part is that, other than slavering after the bloody revolution, I agreed with their goals. But somehow pacifists who are too lazy or cowardly to take action themselves (armchair revolutionaries), and want to take you out in the back alley and beat the crap out of you unless you agree with them on every point strike me as folks who are not quite getting it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 08 - 02:13 PM

Oh, Fantz???

Please share with us ***your*** resume' of what you have done since 2002 to stop this war...

Dates and places of demonstrations, contacts, letters to both nespapers and representatives, etc...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: gnu
Date: 17 May 08 - 02:31 PM

Big F... "Clearly, people here perceive me as a bigger threat to their sanity than..."

Hehehehe... not likely, but, apparently you perceive yourself to be far more than you are. The name Fantasma seems to fit... kinda like Fathead.

Thanks for the laugh. It's 8C, NE30kph, raining... laughs are good. Keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 02:42 PM

Yes, and if I'm so inconsequential, why can't you ignore me boys, hmmmm???

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: gnu
Date: 17 May 08 - 02:50 PM

I do, for the most part. But I read your first post to see if you actually have anything of value to say when you start a thread. It's called common sense and courtesey. Then, if others post, I see if they have anything of value to say and usually just scan your posts quickly after that.

And, if you keep up the bullshit and don't say something intelligent or funny, I will just leave.

Can't you keep it up at all?

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:00 PM

And the nation thanks all of you for your diligent anti-war efforts, that truly put me to shame. Which is, of course, your only intent in posting to this thread.

God knows the lot of you are about as insincere as they come on the anti-war front. You are all about anti-war as long as it suits your hate agenda against Bush.

And then there is the "anti-war" (spit) Emperor Obama--honestly, the y'all absolutely fawn over that man's threads...

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:06 PM

The reason I don't always ignore you (I do ignore you a lot, you know) is that you talk a lot of twaddle, and from time to time I feel it my duty to try to protect the innocent from possibly believing any of it. Besides, if people didn't call you on the nonsense you spout, you might get the mistaken notion that they agree with you.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Deckman
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:09 PM

LOOK OUT DON ... this person seems to be the ghost of xmas past! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:25 PM

See, here's the trouble, Fantz... Yer preachin' to alot of folks who ain't exactly wet behind the ears in the anti-war movement, myself included... The problems is that your motives aren't as much to inform people of currenbt stuff happening but to sit in judgement of folks who in all actualuality may be more involved in the anti-war movement than yourself... Your accusatory rhetroic, unless you back it up with your resume', is growing tiresome and juvenilistic...

Back in the early 60's whn I was into surfing there was a term for folk who never took the surf boards off the roof... It was "ho-dad"... Yeah, they wnated to look like surfers but they weren't surfers...

No diss intended here, FtP, but you are beginning to sound like a ho-dad of the anti-war movement... All preach and no go...

Now that's fine with me if that floats yer boat but those are my observations...

Peace, sista...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 03:36 PM

Yes, you are all such devoted anti-war folk, you've made me the topic of discussion rather than the victory yesterday in the House.

That makes perfect sense, Bobert. Y'all aren't scapegoading or anything. You just MUST put me in my place, is all.

That's OK by me. It says a whole lot more about you guys than it does me. After all, it is ALWAYS the same guys, time after time, who attack me, rather than talk about the subject. After awhile, folks look at that and might think your game starts to look a wee bit like it might be...oh, I dunno...a personal vendetta?

But hey, if vendettas are your game, I'm game.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:10 PM

Personal vendettas are so common around here that you have to walk quite carefully not to trip over one... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:19 PM

And you have a nice day, too, Fantasma.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:51 PM

Bobert has you nailed, Fanny. You spend too much time hanging around here starting threads and trying to be provokative to actually be involved in doing something yourself. In the meantime, for the past hour I've been writing to my Congressional Representative.

Do you even know who your Congressional Representative is? I didn't think so!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 08 - 05:53 PM

No, Fantz... Go back and reread yer original post... It is accusatory... If you start out as judge and jury you can take it to the bank that you are going to get push back... How about just starting this threads without the friggin' indictments of everyone but you...

That ain't too much to ask... You ain't got the market captured in being agsinst the Iraq War nor do you have it captured in folks that are doing what they can to stop it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Bobert
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:06 PM

We cross posted, Don... Yup, Fantz is slowly by surely marginalizing herself here in Mudville... Too bad... She seems to be a good researcher and seems to be on the right side of the issues... Just not the kinda person I can trust to not turn on her allies...

Too bad... What a waste...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:20 PM

She has said she doesn't care about marginalizing herself here. Take her at her word. She's been polite with me (as far as I know). The day she's rude with me will be the day after which I'll no longer post to any of her threads. Some things are real simple in my world.

BTW, the Democrats seen to have been hoisted on their own petard. Likely be reversed next week, but it sure shows that they are no better than the Republicans. Bunck of slimy bastards, all of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:28 PM

Lemme try that again: BuncH of slimy . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Megan L
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:43 PM

PEACE Language mind oan yer neither that big nor that ugly that ye canny go ower ma knee fur a skelp.

Aw heck noo whit hiv a done theres a right evil twinkle came intae his een and his wee heart is bangin awa like the drummer on an orange walk passin the chapel.

Doon beuy Doon

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Peace
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:45 PM

She's talking about skelping again. WHEW!

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 17 May 08 - 06:58 PM

For the record, I didn't "attack" anyone on Mudcat. If people actually read the actual words I wrote that apparently set off the usual suspects:

"And the fact that no one here has mentioned this vote at all, makes me think the most here suffer from what Howard Zinn refers to as the "election madness". Rather than doing the actual work of a democracy, the majority of the left is every bit as bamboozled and mesmerized by the horse race and the media, leading to serious problems keeping eyes focused on the prize."

Is it not true that most here (and I include myself in this, at times) are suffering from MSM imposed "election madness"?

I then go to say "the majority of the left..."

Again, have I specifically attacked any individual here?

No.

But then, some here are sensitive wallflowers...

...who can't match type to context.

Subject: RE: BS: A Victory for the Anti-War Movement
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 May 08 - 08:11 PM

"Again, have I specifically attacked any individual here?"

Read your own posts, Franny.

By the way, who is your Congressional Representative? Eh?

Don Firth