BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 May 08 - 09:14 PM

There was once a jeune fille on the Bois
Who committed a dreadful faux pas.
She loosened a stay
On her decollete,
Thus exposing her je ne sais quoi.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 28 May 08 - 06:35 PM

Actually coup de grace is what you DO with a lawnmower.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 27 May 08 - 08:23 PM

I thought that was my friend Grace's car?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 May 08 - 10:33 PM

Yeah, me too.

Coup de grace = lawnmower.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 26 May 08 - 04:33 PM

Three years of highschool French were definitely wasted on me!

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 26 May 08 - 04:25 PM

P'raps you mean "je ne sais quoi"?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 26 May 08 - 04:20 PM

An interesting discussion for once!

- But isn't an artist putting out a "bad" album to get rid of rabid fans not only ripping off the honest, non-rabid fan but also betraying that Je Ne Ce Coix?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Wolfgang
Date: 26 May 08 - 10:56 AM

"Ghandi" rides again.

Gorge Wasington, Abaram Linclon and Runnold Raygun could fittingly accompany him. (McGrath)

And Ruichard Thompson

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 May 08 - 09:33 AM

Nobody has gotten a better look at the flip side of fame than Bob Dylan. He started becoming very uncomfortable with its demands by 1965 and has spent a good deal of effort attempting to demolish or at least avoid other people's expectations of him ever since. This reputedly included deliberately making some "bad" records and/or radical changes in style that he hoped would alienate his more rabid fans and make them go away... ;-) (I presume that was the idea behind the album "Self Portrait", possibly was with "Nashville Skyline as well (change in style, that is, not "bad"), but that's debatable.) He also did crazy things...like deliberately pouring whisky all over his head one time in public...just to get people to think he was a complete idiot...again, so they would stop idolizing him and GO AWAY.

Kind of hilarious, in retrospect.

At the same time, his love of simply playing the live music has kept him doing it on a very full schedule to past age 60. And that's the right reason for doing it, just because you love it. He sure doesn't need to do it for any other reason. He could live easily on the royalties he gets.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 26 May 08 - 12:54 AM

Slag:

Thou speakest here with great wisdom!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Slag
Date: 26 May 08 - 12:17 AM

A lot of ground being covered in this thread and oddly enough, most of it is related to the topic. What was Dylan's line in "Desolation row"? re Albert Einstein? "You would not think of it to look at him, but he was FAMOUS long ago, for playing the electric violin on Desolation Row." I'm sure if that's wrong, it will be corrected shortly.

The word "worship" stems from the same source as "worthy". Worship means declaring that some one or some thing is worthy of praise. We praise our spouses, children, God, ideals, heroes, automobiles and so on. Hopefully this is done to the right degree for the right reasons. Screaming for the Beatles or Frank Sinatra or the 49ers is disproportionate praise. Perhaps this is what is meant by celebrity status: someone whose garnered praise exceeds realistic expectation.

When have you seen good teachers get the praise they deserve? Firefighters? Soldiers? Policeman? EMTs? MDs? Millions of hard working citizens providing for their families? Not very often, I would bet. And yet, it seems that from time to time we need the distraction and escape a good football or baseball game provides. We admire athletes and actors with well honed talents and ability. Give them their due praise but don't give them the big head by over-doing it.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:48 PM

Well, thanks, Amos. Every now and then someone here arouses me to a moment of really deep anger or passion, and I let loose with what I really think about something. This time it was bobad.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:35 PM

Little Hawk:

Sometimes you write some really beautiful shit, dude.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:32 PM

Still looking outside for "it", bobad?

Look, man, I have observed close up the utter folly and gross stupidity and waste of lives spent trying to be someone "special" (meaning someone who is supposedly more successful, richer, more famous, has a better car than the next guy, has a bigger house, is farther up the social or the power ladder, gets more applause, etc...). It all arises out of some kind of deep insecurity, a deep lack of self-esteem that will not look itself straight in the face, a deep inability to confront one's real self and deal with one's real self, and it's total absolute bullshit from A to Z. I spit on it.

I'll take the Eastern religions anytime.

The right reason to do something, to do anything really WELL is for its OWN sake just because you absolutely LOVE it...not because you think it'll make you someone "special" or put you farther up the comparative ladder of "success". It's the desire to strive toward perfection, toward an ideal. It has nothing to do with being more "special" than anyone else. It has nothing to do with winning social approval. It has nothing to do with competition with anyone. It has to do with aspiring toward the best you can imagine, because the best you can imagine is, in itself, beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 May 08 - 10:36 PM

"Fame doesn't take away the pain
It just pays the bills..."

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 08 - 08:00 PM

OR both, yes.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: bobad
Date: 25 May 08 - 07:52 PM

"No one told me that when I was a child."

That what drugs and/or eastern religions are for.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 May 08 - 07:46 PM

Yes, being emotionally deprived or bruised in various ways in childhood can definitely cause people to seek the recognition and appreciation and love that they think fame (or riches) (or "success") will bring them. I've seen quite a bit of that dynamic at work in my own family over the years. It can cause a person's whole life to become a desperate and often very painful search for something they never would have needed to look for at all if they'd fully understood what was going on.

You cannot find outside of you what's not already alive and well inside of you. No one told me that when I was a child. They made sure, to the contrary, that I would seek everywhere possible, except within myself for what I needed. Why? They didn't know any better. They were themselves lost in the same futile search.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 25 May 08 - 04:53 PM

The Man, The Myth, The Legend In His Own Mind, here he is folks.. Chief Chaos!!!!!

In the case of Brittany Spears, Lindsey Lohan, etc., I wonder if their antics aren't simply a reaction to not having a childhood as the rest of us did (both were child "actors" for Disney). Do they view their "ratings" as whether and how much they are "loved" because they didn't have the real thing growing up in the spotlight?

If true, should we perhaps pity them?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 May 08 - 02:17 PM

Nobody knows how famous I am.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: robomatic
Date: 25 May 08 - 01:01 PM

US, People, Celebrity Gossip, Entertainment.

"Stuff that doesn't matter about people who don't know me."

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 08 - 12:23 PM

I thik Akneton's point is well made--the core issues of existence in North America are not going to go away because one perspn gets elected to high office. But it would be really naive to believe they would.

It is important to recognize how much influence can emanate from the bully pulpit, though, and within the context of that influence it is probably much better to have an individual who is articulate, relatively honorable and who has a deep regard for understanding things in their correct context rather than whipsawing the public theater with stimulus-response chains of Bushian dramatizations.

Obama and to a lesser degree Hillary, share these abilities. I don't really think celeb infatuation, which most epople outgrow by the time they are 18, has anything to do with it.
There is actual importance at play in this race, not just media hype.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:28 AM

My dog has an intense desire to be treated like a celebrity. Hero worship, adoration, groupies...he wants it all. When he dies, expect a full state funeral and national mourning to be held.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 May 08 - 01:09 PM

Well, one real celebrity died today. If Kendall came any where close to hero worship it would have been over Utah Phillips. He was a good example of a man who deserved the accolades and yet did not have his head turned by the attention.

Utah's fans knew better than to treat him like a celebrity however.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: bobad
Date: 24 May 08 - 10:04 AM

Hey guys, dont't turn this into a thread that's all about her, as she seems to like to make you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Bobert
Date: 24 May 08 - 10:00 AM

What Kendall said...

I can't think of anyone here, myself included, who has unilaterally attacked Fantz... Seems everyone here is buzy defending from such attacks from her...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: kendall
Date: 24 May 08 - 09:41 AM

If the first attack is deleted, there will be no retaliation.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 24 May 08 - 08:09 AM

And I'm sure you will be your usual fair self & delete all the personal attacks naming me too, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 08 - 04:23 AM

Janet, please refrain from addressing or referring to individual Mudcatters. If you want to address the issues, fine. If you want to insult or attack people, I'll have to put you back on 100% deletion.

Your manners have been sorely deficient lately. This is your one and only warning. Clean up your act and act civil for a change, or I'll have to put you on the bench for a while.

Be nice. I know it's hard for you, but do it anyhow.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:32 PM

Yeah, I guess. I have really no objection to people doing stuff like that if they want to. We all get something we are looking for here or we wouldn't come here, and if it's personal support some people are looking for, well, why not?

It costs a whole lot less than getting your head messed up once a week by a professional therapist! ;-)

Have you never found prayer effective, Fantasma?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:08 PM

Little Hawk, you forgot to mention the entertainment value here for those who use the forum as their personal support group. Prayer threads, for instance. Highly entertaining.

In fact, I think I hear an "Ommmmmm..." emanating from the Teddy thread as we speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 May 08 - 07:18 PM

where katlaughing is zealously deleting my posts.

Hahahaha...makes me live up to name...that's so funny, that is!

Ebbie, Isis, Isis! Ra, Ra, Ra!

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 May 08 - 07:15 PM

Humph! I'm getting miffed- I keep reading this as 'Celebrity WORKSHOP Syndrome.

Does that mean that unbeknownst to me I'm a worshiper? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: akenaton
Date: 23 May 08 - 05:03 PM

Well my friend, you must be the Warrior Princess.
But remember dreamers can also leave their mark, as the old king has done; and heretics are always one step ahead of the game :0)

Rebels have one trump card in their hand above all others; they neither seek nor need love.

Keep up the fight, never give in and never lower your guard ...even for an instant....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 May 08 - 03:20 PM

I think it's one of the key reasons, Ebbie. I'm not saying it's the only one. There are a number of them.

She's partly to blame herself for those negative reactions, because of her own very combative attitude to others, her frequently hurled accusations of "sexism", and so on. She's also a "guest", however, and people are far ruder in general to guests than they are to other members...when they choose to be rude, that is. She's also a very notable nonconformist on certain political/social issues, and that draws quite hostile reactions from some members no matter who it is who is nonconforming to the general tune around here.

She doesn't like Barack Obama one bit...that's guaranteed to draw a lot of ire here from people who have gotten emotionally involved in backing his campaign.

Furthermore, there are people here who evidently have long standing personal grudges of their own toward her...and she toward them...and that's another factor. They consider her a "black sheep" here. She considers them to be a bunch of sheep, period.

Add it all up, stir with a dash of nutmeg, cook at low heat for 5 years or so, and you've got a pretty nasty concoction brewing when it's finally ready to put on the table. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 May 08 - 03:10 PM

"Fantasma is considered an interloper in the hallowed halls of the club here. As such, she draws a particularly vitriolic reaction from many of its members." LH

Really? That's why?

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 May 08 - 01:35 PM

I was never much interested in Ted Kennedy. That's why you haven't seen me on that thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 23 May 08 - 08:25 AM

Technically, akenaton isn't the prince, but the heretical dreamer king.

And god knows the celebrity worship has already begun in the Ted Kennedy thread, where katlaughing is zealously deleting my posts.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 May 08 - 12:33 PM

Yeah, that's a distinct possibility, Bobert. The sad thing is...we'll never know.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Bobert
Date: 22 May 08 - 12:27 PM

I like him, too, LH, and that is why I am willing to break with my beloved Grren Party on a mere hunch that he might be someone special...

No, not another JFK hopefully...

JFK wasn't all that great... Had he not been assasinated he would have been remembered as the president who got US bogged down in Vietnam and probably would have had approval numbers like Bush has...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 May 08 - 12:01 PM

Ha! Nice post, Akenaton. ;-) Fantasma is considered an interloper in the hallowed halls of the club here. As such, she draws a particularly vitriolic reaction from many of its members.

You're quite right, Americans are mostly in denial about the utterly bankrupt nature of their flip-flop Democrat/Republican duopoly. They keep grasping at the same old straws, time after time. They want to believe that this time, just once, Tweedledee will be a genuine alternative to Tweedledum.

And, you know, I rather like Obama. I just can't stand the party he belongs to...or the other one either.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 May 08 - 09:57 AM

Nice piece Don. I think that you've hit the nail on the head. There is a difference between those who deserve special status for their particular gift and those who think that they deserve that status just for being.

As a teenager I did fall prey to the pop star worship but, over time one realises that these people are just the same as any of the rest of us. As a friend once said "They all have to sit to poo". Try getting that picture out of your head next time you see Donald Trump on the small screen!

I'm married to a man who has some of that 'celebrity' status and, even though, due to the damage to his vocal cord, he isn't performing now we still get people who recognise him coming up to talk to him. He always manages to make them feel rather special - I've seen silly grins on some faces when they walk away. However, I have never seen him use that status to get special treatment or to do the 'don't you know who I am?' lark.

Most of the other well known names in Folk that I have met generally have the same attitude, although I can think of one real exception right now. Those are the people that I admire, for their talent. If I never see another word about Britney or Paris Hilton I'll be quite happy - the lives of vacuous little girls really hold no interest at all. So far as politicians are concerned, one needs to have an interest there, if only to try and choose the one who is likely to do the least damage and who maybe can do a bit of good.

In the case of Ted Kennedy he has spent over forty years in public service and, from the reports I have heard, has achieved some benefits for the American people in that time. His situation now, to me, warrants sympathy, as would be the case for just about anyone who has been handed such a prognosis. That is totally different from worshiping the man.

Re Obama - my opinion may be different from that of others but I do think that this man has the potential to do some good and, again, in my opinion, which is just as valid as anyone else's, more so than any of the other candidates. However, I do not worship the man - I don't even worship my husband and he's #1 in my book.

I would point out that the majority of Mudcatters get along because, although we may not always agree on a lot, we RESPECT the point of view of other members. Sometimes reading another point of view can make a change in the way that I look at a particular topic but, whatever the result, I think that most of us are mature enough in outlook not to feel threatened or insulted that our view on any given subject is not the official party line. That results in some very good discussions, rather than the tiresome squabbles which erupt when any particular person seems not to be able to tolerate any view but their own.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: kendall
Date: 22 May 08 - 09:38 AM

I find celebrety worship disgusting. How in the hell can Britney Spears' latest screw up be more newsworthy than, say, a typhoon in Myanmar that has killed tens of thousands of people?

I've never worshipped anyone, but I must admit that when Pete Seeger sang me his brand new song on the phone it added to my profound respect for this man.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 22 May 08 - 07:58 AM

You are my prince, always Ake!

It would have been nice to have an interesting and lively conversation about the Obama cult phenomenon, or the Kennedy cult phenomenon, but clearly the children haven't figured out yet this isn't about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: akenaton
Date: 22 May 08 - 05:19 AM

Perhaps my friend Guest is simply trying to find different ways of explaining, that neither Mr Obama nor Mrs Clinton are likely to be even a tiny part of the answer to America's problems.

Those of you who have watched the shuttle of Dem/Pub over the last few decades must be aware of this but seem to be in some sort of denial.
From the UK the celebrity status of Mr Obama does seem to have taken on a life of its own, driven by a media thristing for readers and viewers.

If you doubt this is possible, the media in the UK have made our current PM universally unpopular due mainly to his looks and presentation style.
Although Mr Brown has made some serious mistakes in office, his political crimes were as nothing compared to his predecessor Mr Blair who was able (due largely to a fawning media) to actually win an election after the debachle of Iraq.

I cannot understand the animosity again being shown to guest...(I thought for a couple of days, love had broken out).
Perhaps in America it is unusual for a woman to be intelligent and witty and out-spoken all at the same time?

Relax.....You'll grow into it!...........Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: GUEST,MeepTheSheep
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:56 PM

I can't believe 1/3 of the world's population would fall to it. How much of the world has a notion (or the same notion) of celebrity and how many of those would be taken in by it? 1/3 seems unusually high, but then again what would I know!

I'm always fascinated by what tends to be called 'fangirling', even when it's a boy doing it. This tends to involve not celebrities but fictional character or, more commonly, real actors playing fictional characters.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 May 08 - 10:41 PM

Beautiful, Don and so very true in so many ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 May 08 - 09:35 PM

Okay, it seems it might be all right after all. It's just a brief bit, but here are my thoughts.

I don't think I've ever fallen victim to Celebrity Worship Syndrome.

Probably what inoculated me against it was that when I was fairly young, I was in a position to have met a number of celebrities in a couple of different fields. I realized early on that, for the most part, they were ordinary people who had developed their abilities mainly through dedication and hard work. They may have begun with certain natural endowments such as a particularly mellifluous voice in the case of a singer or actor, or a particular type of temperament and physical build in the case of a ballerina, world-class figure skater, or Olympic fencer. And then they built on those natural endowments and honed them. More often than not, if they are successful and famous, it's due to their love of and dedication to their chosen activity and the fact that they've worked very hard at it. Their fame is a by-product.

I also noticed that most of these people would have pursued their favorite activity whether or not they were ever paid for it or attained any recognition from it. The activity itself was the goal. And often, even in competitive sports, they seemed to be more interested in a "personal best" than trying to excel others.

I have met people who might be considered "celebrities" whom I admire greatly, because of a talent they have developed and the manner in which they use it. But do I "worship" them? No.

There are, of course, lots of famous folks out there who have no detectable talent and who don't seem to have made any special effort other than simply being at the right place at the right time, and who are famous for being famous.

In cases like this, it isn't a matter of "the emperor has no clothes." It's that "the clothes have no emperor!"

One of my main rôle models is a fictional character:    Atticus Finch.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 May 08 - 08:59 PM

Gotcha, Bobert. I love living out in the country near a small town where I can live in total peace and quiet and not be bothered with much. Man, I would hate to be famous and have people pestering me every time I stuck my face out the door or walked down the street. It would be like a living hell.

I've got a cousin who gets all snooty and looks down his nose at me because he lives in Washington D.C. (where the important people are?) and I live, to quote him, "in the wilds of Ontario". Heh! ;-D What the heck is he on? I guess he still must want to be famous. Well, I hope he gets his wish one day! It might cure him if he did.

Subject: RE: BS: Celebrity Worship Syndrome
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 08 - 08:53 PM

No worries, mate.


A