BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney

Subject: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:08 AM

I am seriously opposed to the death penalty.

But there are always exceptions to every rule.

If we can't impeach, as Nader keeps harping at Congress to do, then we should be able to prosecute those mothers for war crimes against humanity, and give them death by some slow, painful means of torture.

I was palpably relieved last night watching Clinton/McCain/Obama cross another threshold leading to the wimpering death of the Bush/Cheney junta.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:11 AM

"give them death by some slow, painful means of torture."

That's life.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:14 AM

Dear God, no!

Simply consign them to oblivion, to history's oubliette. Why make martyrs out of them? Send W back to Crawford without benefits, make him work for a livng. Let Dicky do the same. Simply forget them, clean up their mess, and move on. Perhaps get a battalion of cats to bury them in sand....

And if you are going to apply a death sentence you owe it to your humanness to do it quickly and right. A long drop that snaps the spinal cord, a bullet in the "reptilian" brain stem -- but long, slow torture? Then you lower yourself to the same level.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:52 AM

I thought I was being clever, implying that a 'long, slow death' is what we mostly all have.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Bee
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:20 AM

They have a significant following of zealous devotees. Go skim through any rabid rightwing American messageboard. There are still plenty of Americans who think this presidency and its employees are God's gift to the world.

But yes, if you think, Fantasma, that your vengeful fantasy is attractive to psychologically healthy people, you should probably rethink.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:21 AM

Well, some of us are having a long, slow, and enjoyable life. Semantics gone wild, I suppose.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:25 AM

The death penalty for these people simply isn't going to happen and you all know that. So the only person hurt by your anger Fantasma is yourself. Better that you expend all of that energy on something positive - like getting the candidate of your choice elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:38 PM

Death penalty? maybe not. But some type of official justice - yes please. The shame of history will be nice...but not enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:54 PM

To quote the title of the song by the folk duo "Magpie" (Greg Artzner & Terry Leonino) "HAUL THEM ALL OFF TO JAIL"

http://www.youtube.com/user/Artzner

This song refers to Bush, Cheney, & Co.

                                           SOL

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Padre
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:13 AM

I have the sense, from reading the posts by fantasma, that his/her life is truly one of depression and gloom, with no evidence of any joy. For this, I truly am sad, and will add the writer to my daily prayer list.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 10:06 AM

George W. Bush, distraught over his worsening approval rating, was jogging through Washington in search of inspiration. Taking a break upon reaching the Washington Monument, he looks up for guidance and says, "George, you were one of our greatest Presidents, what should I do?"

Suddenly, a voice is heard from above. George Washington says to George W, "Abolish the I.R.S. and start over."

George W, amazed that he's actually talking to a past President, continues his job and this time stops at the Jefferson Memorial. Uttering a similar question to Thomas Jefferson, America's author of the Declaration of Independence and one of its great early philosophers, he asks "Thomas, you've never had these kinds of problems. What can I do to rally people behind me?" Again a voice from above answers, "Welfare is not working, abolish it and start over."

Upon hearing such great advice, George gets excited and plans on going to all the historical sites for guidance. Next stop is the Lincoln Memorial to see President Abraham Lincoln, who met his untimely death after winning the Civil War and keeping the country unified. "Abe, I need your help, people are losing confidence in me and they no longer trust me. What should I do?" After a substantial pause Abe replies, "Take the day off George. Go the the theatre."

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:23 AM

LOL Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:32 AM

I wish I'd written that. Found it on the web.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:35 AM

Good one, Brucie...

BTW, there is a reason why Bush didn't sign on to the World Court... Think about it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: GUEST,Wayne Monroe
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 04:56 PM

Yeah, Bobert because that's where they ought to be, before a world court in shackles and orange jump suits.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 06:46 PM

Even drab old olive green would be good.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: DougR
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:23 PM

Boring!
DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:25 PM

OK then. I stand corrected. Even boring old olive green would be good.

That better, Doug?

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:44 PM

There's a cell waiting in Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba, just big enough for the two of them. Lovely tropical sunsets, sea breezes, and water-boarding for additional recreation.

I wouldn't go so far as requesting the death penalty. I'd even give them the option of posting to this thread.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:45 PM

But who will write for them?

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:23 PM

Good Heavens! I agree with the Phantom! Can you add that bitch Thatcher as another defendant?

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Slag
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:38 AM

Man, what a hateful, vengful bunch of bloodthirsty hypocritcs. Never in my darkest thoughts about Clinton and the travesty of his reign did I ever entertain such loathsome thoughts. How can anyone of you have a serious, meaningful dialogue about the issues involved? Why don't you all just go join the jihad and get it over. Thank God none of you are never going to be in that high post.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 03:17 AM

Slag...I have harboured such thoughts since the beginning of the war, when TV cameras visited a Baghdad hospital containing wards full of limbless and sightless children,victims of "shock and awe" and completely innocent of any terrorist crime.

My thought were reinforced when subsequently it became apparent to all but the most "hateful, vengeful,bloodthirsty hypocrits" that the war itself was based on lies and deceptions.

I am against Capital punishment in principle, but would be prepared to pull the handle myself if Mr Blair and his cabinet could be added to the list...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: PoppaGator
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 04:18 PM

Jeez, Slag, do you still not realize that "When Clinton lied, nobody died"?

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et. al., sent thousands of people to their deaths for no other reason than to aggrandize themselves and to promote the election and reelection of themselves and their statist associates.

As far as I'm concerned, that's a capital crime, far more serious and damnable than an armed robber's felony murder of one or two people at a time, a gangbanger's drive-by shooting of an innocent bystander along with his fellow-criminal target, even more serious than the "mass" murder of 50-100 random victims at a school or workplace.

But of course I don't expect the perpetrators to be punished. They'll live out their days in luxury, thanks not only to fat pensions at taxpayer expense, but also thanks to their huge investments in the war-making industries they led to the public trough while in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: DougR
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 04:52 PM

Sorry, Peace, I was referring to the subject of the thread, not your post.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:05 PM

Hope you have been well, Doug. Good to hear from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 05:24 PM

Slag,

I read your posts closely (as you know). I usually agree with you, but I don't in this case. I have said for years that both Bush and Cheney deserve the death penalty. Unfortunately, it's unlikely they'll receive it.

They have been responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands and the maiming of greater numbers than that. Their perfidy has had a devastating effect on the world, and their two-faced talk before congress(in the USA) and to the people of this world is nothing to be admired.

I live in a country that was punished for NOT joining the Coalition of the Willing (which I recall was composed of USA, UK, Spain and Bulgaria). The cost to us in Canada was billions of dollars--mostly affecting our agricultue industry.

To say the people posting to this thread are hypocrites is not quite accurate. You may not share their (my) thoughts on Bush and Cheney, but because I have different thoughts does not make me a hypocrite. I have wished them dead for over five years now. I would not dance on their graves--just as I didn't rejoice when Saddam Hussein got a sore neck for a second or two. BUT, I shed no tears about it, either. They have been responsible for thousands of deaths. I feel no mercy for any of them.

Sorry.

I still have the greatest respect for you and your writings. Please understand: on this issue we disagree.

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 07:12 PM

In his new book "The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder", famed prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi lays out a possible strategy. It's an idea whose time has come. Impeachment is not nearly enough to bring about justice.

An excerpt can be read at www.huffingtonpost.com

"Perhaps the most amazing thing to me about the belief of many that George Bush lied to the American public in starting his war with Iraq is that the liberal columnists who have accused him of doing this merely make this point, and then go on to the next paragraph in their columns. Only very infrequently does a columnist add that because of it Bush should be impeached.

If the charges are true, of course Bush should have been impeached, convicted, and removed from office. That's almost too self-evident to state. But he deserves much more than impeachment. I mean, in America, we apparently impeach presidents for having consensual sex outside of marriage and trying to cover it up. If we impeach presidents for that, then if the president takes the country to war on a lie where thousands of American soldiers die horrible, violent deaths and over 100,000 innocent Iraqi civilians, including women and children, even babies are killed, the punishment obviously has to be much, much more severe. That's just common sense.

If Bush were impeached, convicted in the Senate, and removed from office, he'd still be a free man, still be able to wake up in the morning with his cup of coffee and freshly squeezed orange juice and read the morning paper, still travel widely and lead a life of privilege, still belong to his country club and get standing ovations whenever he chose to speak to the Republican faithful. This, for being responsible for over 100,000 horrible deaths?* For anyone interested in true justice, impeachment alone would be a joke for what Bush did."

See also http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/09/8834/

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Slag
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 07:40 PM

You might refer to my post of some time back "When Big Things Move". You have to know that when government make decisions, whether you agree with them or not or even if everybody agrees, people get hurt, people die. It is an awesome responsibility to be the leader of a nation because, no matter what you do, some will be hurt, some will die. Having said that, I don't expect to change anyone's mind on political issues. We spend a lot of energy just clarifying our points of view and in applying our ideologies to particular situations.

You all seem to have conveniently overlooked Bosnia and the slaughter of the Serbs. I question our involvement in that entire mess in the first place. Clinton was definitely faced with the choice of two evils. I wont go into the eight years which the more staid and less vocal conservatives suffered through with Clinton. I also don't need to rehearse the facts that Bush, Congress and the free world had essentially the same estimate of the situation in Iraq and WMDs. The US and President Bush had plenty of legitimate cause (17 violations of the UN ceasefire, etc.) to go in and take Saddam out. The pathetic prosecution of the conflict demonstrated flawed thinking and an overall wrong ideology which really, in essence, goes back to Truman and more rightly, Eisenhower.

Your casualty figures are highly disputable and as far as wars go this was verifiably the least injurious to the general population of an enemy than any major conflict the US has been involved in, by far!

The left, your left, is so rabid on Bush that had there been one shred of real evidence that he had done wrong or lied he would have been impeached long ago so you really ought to give it a rest with your blood lust. After all, who does that make you like?

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:14 PM

Well, I think a life sentence of community work would do just fine... We could "render" both of these crooks to Iraq to perform it in an Iraqi hospital of rehab center...

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:43 PM

The left, your left, is so rabid on Bush that had there been one shred of real evidence that he had done wrong or lied he would have been impeached long ago

Yes, he would have if the "left" you refer to were in charge of such things. Unfortunately, it's up to the Democrat "opposition" in Congress to prosecute impeachment, and they a. didn't have the required numbers and b. are a bunch of spineless, toadying politicians.

The evidence is real and plentiful. A number of ex-administration insiders, from Richard Clarke to Scott McClellan, have admitted that.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 10:17 PM

I think the death penalty would make martyrs out of Bush and Cheney, and add an air of respectability to their misdeeds. I think the election campaign this year will bring forth a lot of discussion and change, even before the election. Bush and Cheney have almost been forgotten already. Even the Republican candidate is doing his best not to mention them. What better fate can they suffer?

The worst thing that can befall a politician, is to be forgotten.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 02:36 AM

Wrong Joe! Too many political criminals have been conveniently forgotten.
The public memory is short enough, its time the political criminals of our time were held up to the light, but we all know truth and scrutiny are amathema to the political classes.

As Michealr says the political establishment band together to protect their own.

They are the real enemies of the US and the UK... those party hacks.....those apologists for a monstrous political system...even here on "good ole Mudcat"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Slag
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 04:38 AM

OK. Bring your charges and make it official or cease and desist! Don't you see that what you are saying is the very essence of what a lynching is? You have condemned a person and are ready to execute him without trial or jury. Such talk. And Joe, aren't you a monitor? You're right in there pitching too. Taking your PREJUDICE to the extreme. You become the bigoted persons whom you so often take great pains to point out in others. So much for the fair mindedness, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: pdq
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 04:49 AM

Slag, there is only one moderator at Mudcat. It is Joe Offer. The others are helpers. I call them "sub-moderators" but that is a term I came up with. Mostly, the others are called "clones" or "Joe clones".

All of them are Democrats and all of them are activists in their party. If you expect fair-mindedness you will have a rough time here. Just a fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:17 AM

I'm not a Democrat nor a party activit yet I hate what Bush & Co. have done to my country...

And, yes, inspite of a long, long realtionship with the Green Party, I am supporting Obama...

I would love to have Ralph Nader or Dennis Kucinich as president but going to buck my past just this time...

As for the death penalty, I think if you reread the various thoughts here you won't find a "single" voice... But I'm sure it always makes the pro-war Bush folks here feel all smug in trying to lump everyopne who disagrees with them into clone-dom...

Problem is that is that doing so is the kind of black-and-white thinking that has creaed the problems we face...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 11:30 AM

Since I don't believe in capital punishment I would not support such a fate for the two men and the people who fed them so egregiously and so cynically.

Far better to my mind is to somehow convince them of the enormity of their crimes so that they never have a serene night's sleep again.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 02:14 PM

I wrote to Nancy Pelosi and insisted that Bush and Cheney be impeached. No reply.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: heric
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 04:38 PM

Bush would have a cognitive impairment defense. Total defense.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Slag
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 04:46 PM

kendall, I wonder why?
Bobert, what makes you think I'm FOR Bush? I may have been at one time but his "performance" from early on left me less than enthusiastic. It's so easy to see a fault in others and so terribly difficult to see the SAME fault in ourselves. When it is a general feeling based on ideology, try trading your favorites' names with the names of your opponents and see how that FEELS? If you have specific CHARGES based on factual deeds, that's on thing but just a blanket condemnation based on feelings or ideology is another. To have someone judged and condemned without a trial is un-American, or...Oh! is that the point? You don't like the American way of doing justice? Let me know and I'll save my breath (or fingers, as the case might be).

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 04:57 PM

OK. I now see where Slag is coming from and IMO he's right. So let me please rephrase my earlier remark. I would like to see Bush and Cheney tried for murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: heric
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:04 PM

Nancy Pelosi knowingly presented a false reason to launch a war of choice, directing the use of manufactured and misleading evidence, with leaking of classified information to discredit opponents. hmm. No, that's not working. It's not ideological. It's not "poor performance."

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:04 PM

PS

Thanks for the common sense, Slag. (Guess it ain't all that common.)

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: GUEST,Cruiser
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:25 PM

Let's be fair-minded here folks!

Just waterboard those suckers daily for the rest of their "natural" lives. As a life-long Republican, I would gladly tip the water bucket.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:28 PM

Great to see you, Cruiser. Hope you have been well.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: GUEST,Cruiser
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:31 PM

Hey Peace, doing fine Sir. You are as witty as ever so you must be in fine form.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Slag
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:37 PM

heric, I'm no fan of Pelosi either, but again, where are your facts? How do YOU know what she knew? How can you say that she KNOWINGLY presented a false reason? You DON"T! Bring forth your charges and your evidence or cease and desist.

Thanks Peace! You knew I wouldn't let you down, didn't you?

Indeed, let the guilty pay. But let's make sure they are guilty and not just on the losing end of a popularity poll.

And, yeah Cruiser, water boarding doesn't sound too extreme...!

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:47 PM

Uh, Slag; Heric said what he did with Pelosi's name just because you had said to try making the same kind of statements and inserting the names of people on the other side.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: GUEST,Fantasma
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 06:03 PM

The law of the land. Read it and weep, folks.

From Wikipedia entry on Treason:

The Constitution does not itself create the offense; it only restricts the definition. The crime is prohibited by legislation passed by Congress. Therefore the United States Code at 18 U.S.C. § 2381 states "whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."

Al Qaida in Iraq, not to mention many "elsewheres" are thriving thanks to the treasonous policies of none other than Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld.

My initiating the thread wasn't to discuss how PC everyone was over the death penalty (congrats libs, on conforming neatly according to the party line!).

It was to say, in this instance, even though I am opposed to the death penalty, I would support it.

One need not be impeached to be tried for treason, and the indictment can be brought after they have left office. Since our nation has never bothered with things like South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission, or the similar types of war crimes tribunals, what alternatives are there?

Impeachment is off the table as far as the Congress is concerned (the Dems want to win, after all, so why bother with trifling matters like being sworn to uphold the Constitution?). But charges of treason seem most reasonable to me, under the definition limits of Article II, Sec 3 and the above cited 18 U.S.C. § 2381.

Slag seems to be driving with one wheel off the road with his fantasy regarding Bush/Cheney being brought to justice being the equivalent of a public lynching. But hey, whatever floats yer boat there, slag.

Subject: RE: BS: Death Penalty for Bush/Cheney
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 06:36 PM

"Thanks Peace! You knew I wouldn't let you down, didn't you?"

You never have, so I couldn't see ya startin' now. Thanks, buddy.