BS: Is America ready ??

Subject: BS: Is America ready ??
From: nutty
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:23 PM

I'm not trying to be controversial or stir up ill feeling.

I am just viewing events from the UK and wondering, in view of past hostilities, if America is really ready for a black president.

Are the moderates really ready to fully support such an appointment?

What attitudes will Obama have to overcome in order to be successful?

Rational comments would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:33 PM

Yes - finally

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:39 PM

Not my place, but, I would say the US is ready for a good president. Here, Canucks are ready for a good PM. At least one that doesn't suck up to bad US presidents.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:39 PM

"I'm not trying to be controversial or stir up ill feeling." - Ahh, but what the hell, go for it!

Anyone answering for America is just blowing smoke, but I'll answer for myself. But first, Obama has not nor will not be 'appointed' President or even the Dem. nominee. If he is successful, be will be elected President.

By successful do you mean to get elected? or to conduct a Presidency?
For me he would have to become a lot less liberal ands a whole lot more conservative. That he is Black (actually half white) is of no nevermind to me.   That he is left of liberal is a deal breaker for me. Beyond that I don't care about what was, only about what will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: mg
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:47 PM

Of course we are ready. We were just holding out for someone other than Al Sharpton. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:52 PM

More accurate to ask if it is ready for a mixed race president and I would say yes! Like my twin grandsons he is a "Zebra" child (it's what their Antiguan dad calls them!) and I would love for them to have that role model...they say we are heading more and more towards mixed race majority anyway...what better start than at the top?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:00 PM

Race? Are you implying that he's not a human?

Is the UK ready for a PM of African or Indian descent?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:08 PM

The question is essentially a red herring. Obama is not black.

Actually, it is possible there will be a white supremacist backlash in the hustings between now and November and I think it should be the target of a massive PR campaign to shove that sewage back down the throat of anyone who raises it as an issue. No presidential candidate has ever been question on the grounds that he has too much l-tryptophane, or oxytocin, or left-handed DNA in his physical system before; why should one be challenged on the grounds of having a tad more melanin? The absurdity of the issue is flagrant and obvious.

I think a good PR campaign could be done that would put the race issue on the same level of public esteem as someone complaining because the candidate is "actually from Arcturus and is in disguise, an agent for the Galactic Central Intelligence office". It is too absurd to be thought on.

As for AMerica, that depends on what you mean by the word America; I can guarantee you a huge proportion of Americans are not only ready but willing and fired up to see Obama win this race.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:11 PM

This was a mean-spirited little thread you started, nutty.

Rational comments would be appreciated.

Then start a reasonable discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:15 PM

I would think that the same people who wouldn't vote for Obama because he's black wouldn't vote for any liberal anyway. So no loss of votes there. I'll go out on a limb but I'm guessing the vast majority of bigots vote Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 05:06 PM

Lets just say that I believe the vast majority of people who wouldn't vote for Obama probably never intended to vote for a Democrat in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: nutty
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 05:13 PM

As I said originally, I was not intending to cause offence but listening and watching media coverage here in the UK it would seem that colour could be an issue. I was merely trying to get comments from the man in the street (so to speak).

So sorry the thread upset you SRS, but I was not wanting a discussion but a variety of personal opinions so that I could be more informed about what was happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 05:27 PM

I can't speak for America, but I would be very surprised if the UK was ready for a black or asian or far eastern or mixed race prime minister, even if we were the first country to have two queens at the same time (NB, this is a joke, and it was first told to me by a gay friend and it does not imply that I am homophobic: in fact I get quite annoyed about homophobia. Thought I'd better say that in the light of remarks about me on other threads).

Is America yet ready for a president who is not guided by irrational religious beliefs? I know we had a prime minister recently who was just as bad, and in the light of the shadow he has cast on the practice of religion I think we now are ready for one who does not believe in Godly guidance.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 05:55 PM

I don't see this question as mean-spirited. I know a number of folks (some of them fairly well educated) who are NOT ready for a non-100%-white chief executive.

As for the country as a whole? I don't know. If Obama gets elected, then we'll be able to assume that "most" or at least "many" citizens have been ready all along. (Keep in mind that most folks don't vote, although this coming election may bring greater numbers out of the woodwork than ever before.)

There is definitely a small, but loud and dangerous, racist minority among the US population. They'll be among us no matter who wins the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:02 PM

" I'll go out on a limb but I'm guessing the vast majority of bigots vote Republican"

What an asinine statement. All the sincere Christians I know are Republicans and work to help all people get along with each other. The Southern bigots of days gone by were definitely Democrats, including KKK members Robert Bird and Fritz Hollings. What saved the South was a coalition of social conservatives, Christians and Republicans. Please try re-writing history without injecting your own haterd.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: heric
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:08 PM

One thing that bothers me about some, but an unknown number, of Obamaniacs is a suggestion that they want to vote for him because he is black. An attitude like that does not make me think America is "ready" or "progressing."

It takes all kinds, of course, so if that is a small percentage of people I don't mind at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:13 PM

There is no one single generalization about American's attitudes toward a black president, a woman president, a Jewish president, etc...

Some folks are fine with anyone who is has the skills and vision to do a good job wiule others would rather have a lousy president just so long as he/she weren't ____________ (Fill in the blanks)...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: beardedbruce
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:15 PM

Republican?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:17 PM

IMNSHO, this election will be run on the basis of relative qualifications and positions on the issues. Various groups claiming to be on Senator McCain's side will certainly raise the race issue on his behalf, either directly or (more likely) obliquely, and I wish I was sure that he will slap them down as quickly and firmly as they deserve. However, it will not be the focus of the election. I think that we have matured enough as a nation and as individuals to vote for the man and not for the melanin.

BTW, I find it interesting that some here call Senator Obama left of liberal and some call him right-wing. Does that mean that he is really a moderate?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:17 PM

I am not "upset," as you suggest, nutty, I am disappointed. When you start a thread with the first line being "I'm not trying to start X" you can be pretty sure that that is exactly what you'll get. Characterizing a voice that questions your imprudent choice of wording as "upset" is disingenuous.

Rational comments would be appreciated suggests that you can tell the difference. I think not.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:18 PM

Everybody is prejudiced. It just depends on when and toward whom.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:22 PM

I'm not prejudiced. My deep irrational hatreds are built on foundation of solid research.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:31 PM

Careful that limb doesn't break and knock some sense into your hateful head.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: nutty
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:32 PM

sorry SRS but I think that you and I are not reading from the same hymn sheet. I was being entirely genuine with my comments whereas reading yours I would suggest that they are not entirely rational

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:42 PM

And lets not forget that the reason the south became predominantly Republican is because the Republicans refused to support the civil rights movement and the Democrats did which lead to the total reversal of political parties!

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:48 PM

You'll never catch me reading from a hymn sheet. Talk about blinders right there--and a major reason for the problems in the American South, where I live, but I am not from.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:53 PM

Sorry Chief Chaos but that is also pure crap. The Southern bigots faded away into history. In their place are good people. Perhaps that explains why Atlanta and Houston are the most friendly big cities in the US for Blacks and not Chicago or Boston.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:56 PM

Been all over the South and I've met a lot of good people but the truth is the truth, like it or not. I've also met many racists far north, east, and far west of the Mason Dixon line. This isn't about southerners in general, I happen to be one. And I wasn't trying to slander any southerners or Republicans. However, you just don't find that many KKK members who are registered Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:15 PM

The first two Civil Rights Acts of the 20th century occurred during the Republican Eisenhower Administration. The 1957 act was not as strong as it might have been, because several provisions were excised or diluted by Southern Democrats. Also, it was Eisenhower who sent National Guard troops to enforce school desegregation in Little Rock. Nice attempt revisionism Chief Chaos, but no seegar.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:21 PM

I believe the majority of US citizens, and even most Democrats, are not ready to put into office a president who is not 100% white. Obama needs to take extreme care choosing his running mate to appeal to those who did not vote for him, and it should NOT be HRC.

Is Obama conservative? moderate? progressive? Who knows?? He makes great speeches, but there's no telling what he would actually do if elected.

John McCain must be prevented from winning the White House. After all, he, not W, was the original choice of those dangerous neocon nut cases who came up with the Project for the New American Century. IMO, Obama has but a slim chance of achieving this.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:39 PM

I also cannot speak for America, but I personally am ready for someone who won't blatantly lie to the American public, won't refuse to negotiate with foreign leaders because their interests happen to be at odds with our own, won't support the rape of our national resources for the benefit of huge corporations, doesn't believe that the way to fight a "war" against an ideology is with guns and bombs as if that ideology were a nation-state instead of an idea, keeps his personal religious beliefs to himself and doesn't believe his decisions are guided by some supernatural being, and, while we're at it, doesn't pork interns. I don't give a shit if the person who meets these qualifications is black, white, red, green, male, female, hermaphrodite, or a sentient rock, as long as he she or it is a natural-born US citizen at least 35 years old.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:45 PM

"I personally am ready for someone who won't blatantly lie to the American public" ~ Bill Clinton?

"refuse to negotiate with foreign leaders because their interests happen to be at odds with our own" ~ Lyndon Johnson?

"keeps his personal religious beliefs to himself and doesn't believe his decisions are guided by some supernatural being" ~ Jimmy Carter?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:48 PM

pdq, that is penny ante stuff compared to Bush, and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:50 PM

Are Clinton, Johnson and Carter running? Funny, but I thought the first was ineligible, the second dead and the third not interested. Or did that comment have some meaning I'm missing?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:51 PM

...Senator Obama left of liberal and some call him right-wing.

No inconsistancy there. What is referred to as "left of liberal" in the context of American politics would be seen as distinctly right of centre in most democratic countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:57 PM

BWL, what's your problem with sex?

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:59 PM

All this discussion about what percentage black or white he is is irrelevant.

No humanbeing has the same skin colour as any other human being.

When my daughter asks about these issues I put her hand next to mine and show that our skins are different.

I then tell her tha everyone is different and unique and special and that is what make life special.

But in political terms, if you ask any black or dual heritage american what their ethnic classification is, they will identify with each other as being black.

In terms of the old political structures, Obama would have been described a coloured man. No one would have given a damn whether he had a white grandmother or a chinese nanny.

Which toilets would he have had to use?

Where would he have had to sit on the bus?

You know the answers and you therefore know that arguing about the exact hue of his particular genetic strain is a red herring.

And it may have had a pink grandmother for all I care.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,Chief Chaos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:15 PM

Okay, I'm not trying to revise history here and I'm not trying to insult or upset anyone. The Republicans under Eisenhower did indeed make great strides in the Civil Rights movement. It wasn't until Barry Goldwater opposed a civil rights bill (because he felt that it was an expansion of Gov't power and would be too intrusive) that they held the forefront of the movement.

(Happy with that?)

The Republicans lost the black vote to the Democrats soon after that and the south which had been Democrat territory soon became Republican.

This seems to be the synopsis of what occurred according to quick research conducted through Republican sources on the net.

Again though, from my own personal point of view, I think that the people who wouldn't vote for Obama, because of the color of his skin, were ever going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:35 PM

Well, Chief, I know five Democrats who did not vote for Obama in the primaries, two of whom intimated it was because of color, and said if he
became the nominee they would not vote for President. Are my acquaintances telling me the truth? I don't know. But if that's fine with me if they don't vote the Democrat.

By contrast, many more of my friends are Republicans, and only one said she wouldn't vote for a Black candidate, even it Republican. I believe that Republicans are way better for minorities integrating into American life than Dems...especially those who promote "identity politics."

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:10 PM

Well, here's a bald statement for nutty:

Yer damn right America is ready. America IS ready. Let it be written, and let it be done.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:41 PM

You ain't asking the real tough $64,000 question here, nutty, the one that people are afraid to ask out loud...and that is:

Is America ready to have a chimp as president and commander-in-chief?

My advisors say "YES!"

My constituents say "YES!"

My gut says "HELL, YES!!!"

Hell, yes! Get ready for some REAL changes in Washington this time around. Vote APP all the way. We will rattle the branches in Washington, buddy, and some ripe mangos and coconuts are gonna fall!

Subject: Lyr Add: KILLED BY A COCONUT (Shel Silverstein)
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:51 PM

KILLED BY A COCONUT" ~ Shel Silverstein

He just had a stress test, and he was fine
His cholesterol level was down to 209.
He saved up his money, retired to the tropic sea
There he was resting contentedly underneath a tall palm tree

When he was... killed by a coconut
Killed by a coconut
Just when things were lookin' up...
He happened to be lookin' down.

Yeah, he was... killed by a coconut (and you could be)
Killed by a coconut (that's why you never should be)
Sittin' underneath a coconut tree
When the coconut come down.

After five years of beggin' and pleadin'
She finally said yes.
They slipped into his apartment,
She slipped out of her dress.
He lit up some incense, and unplugged the phone
And was just about to enter the twilight zone

When he was... killed by a coconut (oh, what a feeling)
Killed by a coconut (it came through the ceiling)
The people upstairs were havin' a luau
And one fell through the floor.
And you'll be killed by a coconut (if you ain't protected)
Killed by a coconut (they come unexpected)
So never be lyin' in bed at night with the one that you adore.

He got the promotion, he felt great.
He took everybody in the office out to celebrate.
He ordered up pina coladas all around,
And they made a toast, he drank it down and made a gasping sound.

And he was... killed by a coconut (a great big cold one)
Killed by a coconut (he swallowed a whole one)
The young bartender was just out of school
And put the whole damn coconut in

He was... killed by a coconut (it ain't no joke)
You could be killed by a coconut (gasp and choke)
So never be drinkin' in a bar at night
Surrounded by all of your friends

He came back from Vietnam without even a scar (guy was a hero)
Started drivin' them demolition derby cars
He joined the police force
Survived a shoot out or two (uh oh, I think I see what's comin')
Now he was healthily joggin' down the avenue

When he was...
Killed by a pineapple (they were out of coconuts)
Killed by a pineapple (felt just like a coconut)
The A&P truck hit a telephone pole and fruit went flyin' everywhere
So, if there's plans you got (big, big plans you got)
Just make sure you're not just not (just make sure you're not)
Joggin' down the road on a sunny afternoon
'Cause coconuts are lurkin' out there

And you'll be...
Killed by a coconut (what a way to die now)
Killed by a coconut (everybody cry now)
Fate has a way of makin' you pay for all wrongs you do
And all the plans you got (all the plans you got)
Ain't gonna mean a lot (ain't gonna mean a lot)
When you meet up with the coconut
That's out there waitin' for you

Yeah, the plans you got - will not mean a lot
When you take a shot - that don't feel so hot
And ready or not, you come to the spot
Your coconut's waitin' for you.
(Somewhere there's a tropical fruit with your name on it)

Subject: Lyr Add: JUNGLE TO THE ZOO (Shel Silverstein)
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:05 PM

JUNGLE TO THE ZOO ~ Shel Silverstein

The tiger he looked out of his cage and smiled.
He said, "Come here, boy, I want to talk to you a while".
He said, "I once was runnin' wild and free just the same as you.
But it's one step from the jungle to the zoo".

It's one step from the jungle to the zoo.
You'd better watch out
Or they're gonna get you too .
They clip your claws, cut your hair
Make a pussy cat out of you.
It's one step from the jungle to the zoo.

He said, "Son, when you go runnin' through the grass,
You'd better look out for all the hidden traps.
They'll feed you sweets and goodies
Til you're too fat to move
Then it's one step from the jungle to the zoo".

It's one step from the jungle to the zoo.
You'd better watch out
Or they're gonna get you, too.
They clip your claws, yank your fangs,
Make a pussy cat out of you.
It's one step from the jungle to the zoo.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:27 PM

Man, that Shel Silverstein guy was a frikkin' genius! Really smart for a human, I'd hafta say. I wish we could get him on as a speechwriter for the APP. He had his finger on the pulse of life, that guy.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:32 PM

Your alter ego put Bob Dylan and Gordon Lightfoot foreward as candidates for "greatest songwriter of all time". I put Steve Goodman and Shel Silverstein out there. Not saying they really beat Zim and Gordo, but they deserve consideration.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:41 PM

I truly don't know if America as a whole is ready. But, when I was 9, a black man could not get a haircut in my hometown. My 9 year old daughter has seen a black man become the presumptive nominee of a major political party. That is enough for me right now.

Maybe.


And: when I was 9, women wore beehives and greeted their men with a martini at the door after a hard day's work. Could they make a legit run at POTUS? Ha!

My 9 year old daughter has seen differently. Good enough?

Again, maybe.

Okay, probably not.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:56 PM

I'd put up with the beehive if I could get that daily martini treatment....



A

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:00 PM

I don't know Steve Goodman's catalog of songs well enough to really know where he stands in that respect, pdq. Nor Shel Silverstein's, for that matter. But I sure love those Shel Silverstein lyrics you posted above. They're wonderful.

As to who is the greatest songwriter of all time...well...that's impossible to say for sure. It would be like trying to draw a single definitive picture of the wind. One can hazard some subjective opinions, that's all, and opinions are based on only partial knowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:09 PM

In the last few years, Bob Gibson's last record called "Making a Mess" was closed out and it can be found quite cheap on eBay. It is all Silverstein-penned songs and he even joins in a few, including "Killed By a Coconut". It has an absolutely perfect backup by Nashville session players. Bob gives a gutsy performance, considering his health problems at the time. One of my personal favs of alltime.

Subject: RE: BS: Is America ready ??
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:10 PM

Amos,
If we ever meet in person, and you wear a beehive, I will make you a martini.