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Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)

Joe Offer 26 May 99 - 02:53 PM
SeanM 26 May 99 - 03:55 PM
Penny S. 26 May 99 - 04:33 PM
MMario 26 May 99 - 04:37 PM
Penny S. 26 May 99 - 05:04 PM
Rick Fielding 26 May 99 - 05:53 PM
Liam's Brother 26 May 99 - 07:14 PM
katlaughing 26 May 99 - 07:44 PM
Joe Offer 26 May 99 - 10:58 PM
Wotcha 26 May 99 - 11:00 PM
Joe Offer 26 May 99 - 11:10 PM
DonMeixner 26 May 99 - 11:33 PM
Rick Fielding 26 May 99 - 11:41 PM
MMario 27 May 99 - 08:28 AM
Michelle Roberts 27 May 99 - 03:20 PM
Mikal 27 May 99 - 05:01 PM
SeanM 27 May 99 - 05:40 PM
SeanM 27 May 99 - 05:47 PM
27 May 99 - 09:12 PM
Liam's Brother 27 May 99 - 10:59 PM
Lonesome EJ 27 May 99 - 11:32 PM
katlaughing 27 May 99 - 11:37 PM
Wolfgang 04 Jun 99 - 07:26 AM
Finny 19 Jun 01 - 09:19 AM
Finny 19 Jun 01 - 09:24 AM
English Jon 19 Jun 01 - 09:33 AM
Mrrzy 19 Jun 01 - 09:37 AM
Wavestar 19 Jun 01 - 09:38 AM
GUEST 19 Jun 01 - 10:14 AM
pavane 19 Jun 01 - 10:22 AM
Clinton Hammond 19 Jun 01 - 10:50 AM
GUEST,JohnB 19 Jun 01 - 12:26 PM
GUEST,SharonA 19 Jun 01 - 12:47 PM
SeanM 19 Jun 01 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,SharonA 19 Jun 01 - 06:13 PM
Finny 19 Jun 01 - 06:19 PM
GUEST,Melani 19 Jun 01 - 06:41 PM
mousethief 19 Jun 01 - 06:56 PM
Finny 19 Jun 01 - 07:08 PM
WickedLad 19 Jun 01 - 10:37 PM
Chicken Charlie 19 Jun 01 - 10:51 PM
MMario 19 Jun 01 - 11:12 PM
mousethief 20 Jun 01 - 01:09 AM
GUEST,SharonA 20 Jun 01 - 11:26 AM
Chicken Charlie 20 Jun 01 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,SharonA 20 Jun 01 - 01:03 PM
mousethief 20 Jun 01 - 01:09 PM
SeanM 20 Jun 01 - 01:56 PM
Melani 20 Jun 01 - 02:17 PM
GUEST,Gregory Blount 20 Jun 01 - 10:45 PM
WickedLad 21 Jun 01 - 03:27 AM
Finny 21 Jun 01 - 04:28 AM
GUEST 21 Jun 01 - 10:42 AM
GUEST,JohnB 21 Jun 01 - 12:53 PM
GUEST 09 Oct 16 - 01:57 PM
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Subject: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 May 99 - 02:53 PM

The thread on Dressing Up and Playing Soldiers made me think of the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), and reminded me of a question I wanted to ask. A while back, I interviewed a rather strange security clearance applicant who was a member of SCA, and I asked her all about it because I was interested, and because I thought it would be a nice, harmless topic of discussion to break the ice. Later, I learned that one of the applicants had complained that I had asked questions about the applicant's religion. I couldn't remember asking any religious questions at all since that's not the sort of thing I'm allowed to ask. The only possibility I could imagine is that the woman deemed the SCA to be a "religion." Is that the case?
I thought of SCA as a sort of "living history" organization, dedicated to the representation of life as it was in the Middle Ages. Some SCAdians I've encountered seem to take their membership a little too seriously, but is that the essence of the organization, that it's a religious thing rather than a historical study?
I mean no offense to anyone who belongs to SCA. I've thoroughly enjoyed the SCA presentations I've seen, and I've learned a lot from them.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: SeanM
Date: 26 May 99 - 03:55 PM

Coming from an organization that most SCA'ers view as heretics (Renfaire), it sounds like you ran afoul of one of the more damaged individuals in the group. For the most part, SCA is made up of people who like to dress up & beat each other over the head with sticks (NOI)... Really, though. It's a non-entertainment or customer based recreation, done primarily for the participants. Most events are based around combat scenarios, sorta like civil war reenactment without the same historic restraints... in the same event, you may run in to german foot troops, picts, japanese ronin, elven whatevertheyares, etc., etc., etc.

Unfortunately, SCA (as well as the Renaissance Faire) tends to draw some... 'emotionally vulnerable' people to it, some of whom take the entire thing WAAAAAAAAY too seriously.

M


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 May 99 - 04:33 PM

That reminds me of the time I went to Chiselhurst Caves with a friend, the last two visitors of the day. And, into the lower entrance we saw a trail of people going, clad in strange raiment, green elven weeds, chain-mail, wizardly robes and the like, masked as orcs, armed cap-a-pie: and, as we traversed the upper ranges of the caverns, we heard weird cries (and chords, no doubt), moans and groanings, shoutings, roarings and the clash of metal. Apparently there was something of that sort going on there.

I'm disappointed to hear what the SCA is: I had heard of it, and thought it might be more playing with ideas such as Hero actually doing something useful with his steam-engine.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: MMario
Date: 26 May 99 - 04:37 PM

That was more likely to be a "LARP" live action role playing group....

While I have friends who are "Larp"-ers and friends who are SCAdians,and many into ren-faire; I find the SCAdians to be more "focused" (shall we say?) on their particular little interpretation of the world. I have known many for whom it is almost a cult thing, in the religious sense of the word.....

MMario


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Penny S.
Date: 26 May 99 - 05:04 PM

Thanks MMario. Dungeons and Dragons only in the "real world"? I think I'll stick with books.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 May 99 - 05:53 PM

Every year here there is an "Earth Day" celebration and the SCA generously lends costumes to the "ringers" who are hired to play music. Several years ago, I was late going to their costume bunker and found that all the "good ones", ie. noble knights, Robin Hood style minstrels, court jesters, etc. were gone. All that were left were brown hooded Monks' robes. So I figured if there could be "singing Nuns", why not go the ecclesiastical route? Since then Tony Quarrington (my Earthday musical partner) and I have gotten into our musical characters. He is the "Fish Friar" and I have become the "Chip Monk". Our big number is the theme from the Richard Greene Robin Hood TV show.
Brother Richard


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 26 May 99 - 07:14 PM

Hi Joe!

You didn't tell us... did she get the job?

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 May 99 - 07:44 PM

Most of the SCA people I know of here are pagan or wiccan. I would suspect, Joe, you might've been interviewing one, as that would be considered their religion. Also, people who tend towards the wiccan or pagan belief can be a little sensitive when people start asking them questions. It is someitmes very difficult to get past the stereotypes of blackpointy-hatted witches on brooms ala Hollywood, etc. One pagan I know of here had his house set on fire because of his religious beliefs. There is still much prejudice born of fear and ignorance and what some of the Christian churches preach.

I've found some of the SCA's here are awfully full of themselves, but I think they have grand fun. Every year they put on a public, all day picnic and show with rousing jousting, sword fights, etc. with everyone in costume and character.

Brother Chip Monk, sorry I missed THAT this earthday! Maybe next year!

katbrewing


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 May 99 - 10:58 PM

Hi, Dan - don't know if the young woman got the job or not. I just report the information I collect. You know, like my patron saint Joe Friday, "Just the facts, ma'am." I think she probably got the job. She reminded me a lot of my own daughter - very capable, but marching to a different drummer. I liked her.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Wotcha
Date: 26 May 99 - 11:00 PM

Joe:

Some would say that security interviewers are members of a strange society ... (DSS ... DIS, NIS etc ... not to mention the incantation "LDMAC" ... ).

In a musical sense the people I have known as part of SCA seem to gravitate to the narcissitic Gothic scene which can embrace a wide variety of interests: the fringe groups role play as vampires: better ask some questions about blood letting or ask to see their dentures ... Others would probably fit into Civil War reenactment types (or the English version of Gentlemen of the Sealed Knot; quite a respectable association).

Overall, nothing too sinister about the SCA.

Cheers, Brian


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 May 99 - 11:10 PM

Well, today I had to work at Folsom Prison, and there was a very tempting bowl of Tootsie Roll Pops on the table in the warden's office. Can't make my mind whether I felt like Johnny Cash or Kojac.
-Joe Offer, who doesn't have any of those initials-


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 May 99 - 11:33 PM

I live a short distance from Sterling Forrest, a large and well repected RennFaire and I visit it several times a season. By and large I find the people who perform at this faire seem to run true to type with other faires. The knights are arrogant and full of them selves. The serving wenches and lackeys are usually nice folks who take their paying gig very seriously. The mimes are a pain in the ass, which holds true down through the centuries. The crafters, which I go to see, are there to make a big buck in small time and usually are uncomfortable in Elizabethan kit. The food is good the ber is great and usually the music is outstanding. Lately there has been a group from The Poisoned Elves crowd showing up who get belligerant when told to check their weapons at the gate. These are people who have a poor grasp of the tenuous and really need some mood enhancers..

Don


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 May 99 - 11:41 PM

JOE! did you hear that train a comin, was it comin' round the bend. When was the last time you saw the sunshine? Was it "Lord knows when"? How long are you stuck in Folsom prison? Does time go crawlin' on? What about those people who keep on movin' on down to San Antone.
I apologize in advance.
Rick


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: MMario
Date: 27 May 99 - 08:28 AM

Uhmmmm....Don? you live a short distance from Sterling Forest (aka New York Ren-faire referred to as TUX by ren-faire crowd)or from STERLING ? I thought you were in Jordan?

STERLING is near Oswego; Sterling Forest is down about 35 north-west of NYC. VERY different faires. VERY. Sorry for the digression, this is a touchy point.

MMario Master of the Logs at STERLING (NOT forest)


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Michelle Roberts
Date: 27 May 99 - 03:20 PM

I think it's important to realise that Ren Faire people and SCA people are, for the most part, *very* different folks. Ren Faires are not terribly concerned with accuracy, preferring instead to cater to the public's popular idea of medieval and renaissance culture. If John and Jane Doe believe that Henry VIII belched and slopped ale over himself while munching a turkey leg (ever mind that turkey was a new world food and is still not terribly favoured in Europe), then that's what they will have presented to them.

SCA people are generally more concerned with getting things right, or as right as their talents and funds permit. There *are* those who join because they have heard it's easy to get laid and obtain free booze, or because they want to take advantage of the SCA's freewheeling acceptance of "alternate lifestyles" and be an elf, vampire, or satyr for a day or two.

While that is true, we must remember that these types are in the minority. And, ever since the royalty of the East and Mid made it crystal-clear at Pennsic that non-appropriate costumes and personas were *not* welcome, things have calmed down considerably. Since that year, I have not seen a single vampire or satyr, and only a few elves.

Please do not judge the SCA by visiting a Ren Faire. It is like comparing grapefruit to oranges-- both are of a similar genre, but there the comparison ends.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Mikal
Date: 27 May 99 - 05:01 PM

I play in the SCA every now and then. And most of the folks I know there are nice, level-headed, (or as level heded as amature historians can be,) and a lot of jun to be around.

However, they do draw out the weirdies...Huh, I guess I am one of them... Mikal


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: SeanM
Date: 27 May 99 - 05:40 PM

And now for the rebuttal...

I think it's important to realise that Ren Faire people and SCA people are, for the most part, not very different folks. I know about a hundred or so that do both. As to Ren Faires not being terribly concerned with accuracy, and preferring instead to cater to the public's popular idea of medieval and renaissance culture, well, it's a business. On top of that, out of the 10-15 SCA events that I've been to, history has been something to warp and ignore... so it's a double edge, as it were.

Henry VIII is a bit out of period, so I'll leave that alone. And it's the customer who at the end of the day has usually belched and slopped ale over himself while munching a turkey leg. As to turkey being a new world food and still not being terribly favoured in Europe, well, Budweiser isn't either, and I see an awful lot of it at wars.

SCA people generally don't show more concern with getting things right. This is probably due to most of the ones out on the west coast being interested in keeping equipment 'battle ready' with duct tape and PVC pipe.

"There *are* those who join because they have heard it's easy to get laid and obtain free booze, or because they want to take advantage of the SCA's freewheeling acceptance of "alternate lifestyles" and be an elf, vampire, or satyr for a day or two."

Ditto on the above for the renfaire. We get multiple Xenas, faries, etc. daily.

While that is true, we must remember that these types are in the minority. And, ever since the royalty of the East and Mid made it crystal-clear at Pennsic that non-appropriate costumes and personas were *not* welcome, things have calmed down considerably. Since that year, I have not seen a single vampire or satyr, and only a few elves.

Bravo, folks. Slap around the westcoasters while you're at it? We rely on carefully concealed mockery and derision to keep the wackos in line... 'specially since I'm probably one of them.

" Please do not judge the SCA by visiting a Ren Faire. It is like comparing grapefruit to oranges--both are of a similar genre, but there the comparison ends."

And also don't judge the renfaires off of SCA or even each other. There's a lot of difference between a 'Renaissance Festival' and 'Fantasy Faire'. The big 'faires out here are heading farther away from history, but there's an Irish festival out in the valley that apparently is incredibly historicaly active. But all in all, if you want TRUE accuracy, don't go to either. Having played in both, I'd state with full confidence that the historic reenactors make us both look positively silly.

Climbing down off of a VERY tall soapbox...

M


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: SeanM
Date: 27 May 99 - 05:47 PM

As an addendum...

If'n y'all can't tell, there is a fair amount of bad blood between the two.

One of the fundemental differences will always be: SCA: Hobby done almost entirely for self, aimed mostly within, without taking theatric nature into account

Renfaire: Theatric event with historic elements, of varying authenticity and intensity. Largely concerned with audience interaction and happiness, as they are all businesses of one form or another.

Both are hobbies. Somehow, I wound up in the one that makes other people money...

M


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From:
Date: 27 May 99 - 09:12 PM

Gee Sean - I make money at it. Maybe you should come east? *grin* Though from all I have heard, the faires east of the rockies do tend to be more "entertainment" and less "authenticity"

MMario


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 27 May 99 - 10:59 PM

Hi Joe!

I just got a thought. I don't know whether it's correct or not but... someone dressing in garb of 500 years previous could be trying to draw attention to herself... someone claiming to having been hassled about religion (when that was not the case) could be trying to draw...

Do you want to complete the sentence?

Sleep tight, Joe Friday. It's your day tomorrow.

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 May 99 - 11:32 PM

I went to my first rennaissance fair in Louisville Ky in about 1974. At that time, the flavor of the original fair held in California in 1965, was still fresh. It was a small affair, the entertainment and concessions run primarily by hippies who seemed to really enjoy the costume and theatrical part of it. My second was in Larkspur CO in about '78, and you could see that the concept was changing- larger crowds, higher prices, a more workman-like approach by the participants.My last one was also in Larkspur, about 1993. Big crowds, $15 to get in,exorbitant prices for the supposed crafts. In my opinion, the "industrification" has ruined the spontaneity and fun of the Ren Fairs- like too many things in America, some people who probably had little to do with the initial concept have turned these events into greedy shadows of what they once were. What once had the atmosphere of a light-hearted journey into the middle ages has become just another cattle-call for the bored masses.

LEJaded


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 May 99 - 11:37 PM

JadedLeej: same as what happened to the Burning Man in Nevada. Pre-Internet days, I used to call up, long distance, the GreenPreace bulletin board, on my old 386 and visit with the moderator, can't remember what his real title was, anyway he was one of the original ones to get that going, and in 1993/4, when we were visiting, he starting to real hate what was happening to it. Last year or the one before, it was a feature on some hip travel show on tv! Totally lost the original feel.

kat


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jun 99 - 07:26 AM

found at href=http://www.applink.net/wolfpack/past/sngfram2.html

BORED IN THE SCA!

Tune: "Born in the USA"

BORED in the SCA!
Oh, I'm a LORD in the SCA!
I use "Prince Valiant" for historical sources!
I'm a knight, but where are the horses?!
Bright colors and panty hose!
Polyester from my head to my toes!

Oh, I am BORED in the SCA!
Yes, I am BORED in the SCA!

Over there's a Samurai, I think,
Must because of the fishy stink!
I'm a King in Fantasyland,
Don't fight with steel, I use bare rattan!

Oh, I am BORED in the SCA!
Joined the HORDE in the SCA!

Now I can rape and pillage and burn
Goon the jerks that never learn!
Looks like ( insert name of choice ) is here!
Hide the chickens, and dogs and beer!

I was BORED in the SCA!

I was BORED in the SCA!
Joined the HORDE in the SCA!
Joined the HORDE in the SCA!


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Finny
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:19 AM

Hi, I'm in the SCA and quite happy to be so. I have to agree though, we do seem to attract some folk who are a little odd and who do take the whole thing quite seriously. The game ceases to be a game. It becomes their entire being.

Still I have a lot of fun. I'm learning to fight and I'm the bard for our Barony (Rowany in Lochac) and for me the SCA is an escape and something creative to do. Not only that, but when I'm performing or entertaining, it helps me to get across to people I don't usually have the opportunity to get across to and that's really nice.

Here in Australia, I don't think we have Ren Faire, but we do have metal weapons groups and there is a degree of animosity between metal weapons and SCA. A shame really, we're all in it to re-create times past and to learn and re-create a fascinating part of our histories.

Finnabhair


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Finny
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:24 AM

Also, I am putting together a bardic yahoo group. This is to exchange material and references and tal kabout the bardic arts. It is mainly in SCA context, but anyone who might be interested is welcome.

It is at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bardcircle

Hope to see you there, Finnabhair ni Binnech


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: English Jon
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:33 AM

As anyone in England will tell you, Henry VIII belched and slopped BEER over himself, whilst eating roast pheasant and the odd partridge.

We like Henry VIII.

EJ


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:37 AM

These folks were big when I was an undergrad. They had a lot of fun, and I went to see them all the time, but I never joined, which I still regret. I never joined a lot of stuff I ought to have...


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Wavestar
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:38 AM

There's people out there who can get obsessed enough about anything. But perhaps one of the other applicants overheard you askign questions about the SCA and mistakenly thought you were grilling the girl on religion? WHo knows. Rest easy, I'm sure she's not fretting too much.

J, aka Iscah de Merlis

PS The SCA, like anywhere else, can have politics, bad blood. stupidity, etc - and all because the stakes are so low. People are so odd when they're petty.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:14 AM

I've never been to an SCA function. I've had nothing to do with any Ren Faire. I've supplied texts and tunes to the SCA website, and am working to get a good copy of the 16th century 'The gods of love' and a good copy of its tune for the SCA website.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: pavane
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:22 AM

Talking of anachronisms (but not of the society) BBC seem to have been good at it. Does any remember seeing the epsiode of Poldark where someone plays a tune that hadn't been written on an instrument that hadn't been invented?


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:50 AM

It's people like her (in the original post) are the reason why I got out of the SCA, The LARP groups, the 'Game clubs', and other geek activities like that... Over eager, mouth-breathing, skin-thin-as-paper, nerds drive me right up a wall...

I prefer my geeks to be adamant in their geekness... wear it like a scar of honour!

;-)


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 12:26 PM

Done both the SCA and the Renny thing for awhile each. Don't care for the assholes in either. JohnB


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 12:47 PM

The reason I stayed out of the SCA, after some inquiry in the '80s, is the same reason I got out of the D&D-playing groups (okay, the guy brandishing the pen knife at one game, pretending it was a dagger, had SOMETHING to do with it): I wanted to join a group where I could get to know people, not just their characters.

In '83, a friend invited me to be his guest at an SCA weekend affair (he arrived with a trebuchet in pieces on top of his car, set it up and flung some homemade "rocks", which was fun). But afterward, when referring ot some of the participants, my friend didn't even know their "real" names or anything about them (did they have kids, what did they do for a living, etc.); he only knew their characters' names and the histories they'd created for themselves. That was off-putting, as was listening to an argument at a science fiction convention between two SCA members, HEATEDLY disagreeing about which one had been a member longer (why was it that important??).

I much prefer the singer-songwriter crowd who are interested in baring their (our) souls, and folk music aficionados in general who are interested in expressing "the human condition" through song without pretending to be the characters in the songs' stories (except maybe at a Halloween sing). :-) :-(


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: SeanM
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:54 PM

GUEST SharonA,

If you're looking for someone baring their 'true' souls to the world, how much more 'true' can you get than someone displaying their innermost fantasy personas to the world?

I'm constantly amazed at the change that comes over my friends from the 'real world', who become entirely different people the moment they hit the streets of faire...

*sigh* I'd forgotten this thread... One of the first ones I ever really contributed to repeatedly (ish).

M


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:13 PM

Agreed that one's fantasies can give a glimpse into one's true nature. Soooo... if one's true nature is to bash me with a stick wrapped in duct tape, I'm better off staying far, far away from the SCA!!!!!

Seriously, though, fantasy is just one aspect of one's nature. And to act out only one fantasy on a consistent basis... can that address even the myriad aspects of one's fantasies, let alone other aspects of one's nature??


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Finny
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:19 PM

We're not all weirdo geeks! You seem to be tarring us all with the same brush here! Come on, fair go!

Of course there are some total eejits out there who spoil things for everybody else, yuo get that in just about any society, group, business, whatever. Whole thing is if you don't like what they are creating, or if you don't like certain people, then don't get involved with them.

When I got to the 'Society' I fell into a barony which is quite qell known for it's snobbery and this really sucked and was really off-putting. I considered leaving a few times, but I stuck it out and I'm glad I have because in the last year (I've been in for 3) I've met some truly wonderful people. We don't take it overly seriously (there is a time and a place for seriousness!) and we have loads of fun!

It's what you make it. If you hang around a bunch of misery guts, dorks or people you don't want to hang around and be with then of course you won't have a good time. Get out there and be sociable and have the guts to step outside your comfortable circle of friends and make new ones! Try new things! Find your own interests! Don't just base your experience on what you have heard or what you haven't tried. And please don't be so judgemental of us! We're not _all_ like that!

Finnabhair


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:41 PM

I have to agree with Finny--there's jerks everywhere. Just avoid the ones you don't like. I have also had the experience of only knowing someone by their faire name. This is primarily because the faires I do attract people from all over California, and I have many faire friends who live pretty far away from me, so I only see them at faire. I actually do know the ones who live in my area. I had the experience in the last year or so of discovering that "Molly" is a faire name not a real name, and the lady in question is actually called Catherine. I now see her frequently outside of faire, and have a terrible time remembering to call her Catherine. I am also starting to have trouble remembering whether today is 1586, 1856, or 1901, and what accent to use. For convenience (my own), all MY faire names are a variation of Sam. I have enough trouble remembering what year it is, without forgetting my own name as well.

The real reason I do this is that I like to play dress-up.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:56 PM

If you're looking for someone baring their 'true' souls to the world, how much more 'true' can you get than someone displaying their innermost fantasy personas to the world?

I think this was already answered before you asked it -- like what their name is, where they live, how many kids they have, etc. That's a lot more real than some persona somebody invented, which could have to do with some movie they saw, some incident in their childhood -- and could have very little to do with their actual personality.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Finny
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:08 PM

My persona's name is Finnabhair ni Binnech (hence Finny) and my real name is Sara Morris. I based my persona on an iron aged celt (the costuming is easy, I'm by no means a seamstress) and this is an are of which I have a real interest. I find that when I am talking to people they are either the intellectual, arty types (prithy, my Lord?) or they are straight down the line. I prefer the straight down the line approach and I think you'll find that I am quite coloquial when you talk with me. I find the artistic, intelectuals difficult to approach, so I steer clear of that particular scene.

Fantasy is one element of "dress-ups" that I find attractive. I get to explore the fighter in me, but best of all I get to explore the entertainer and singer that I already knew I was and gain satisfaction from being able to get people to listen to my song story and forget about the real world for just a brief moment in their lives.

I guess that's what the whole thing is about for me.

Finnabhair


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: WickedLad
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:37 PM

There have been many concepts raised in this thread I play in the SCA, i have also been in reenactment, Rolelaying and done the Goth life style All have a core of people who believe and keep them afloat All have people that TRULY believe and TRULY hate them Once a discussion starts you get the hackneyed stories which "people know to be true" I found that I play SCA still as I can find my niche and plug it. If people join my band waggon then i'm off and running. Most people in these groups will defend their hobby while opening themselves and the hobby to continual scrutiny. Many people in these groups have a hard time getting past the outer shell to the yummy inner as most people that decide to continue have had to go through the process of explaining what they do to others The Ren faire, SCA and the Live roleplayers come from different basic viewpoints but many people cross over sometime quietly. I find that people avoid historical reenactors due to the problems getting to the speed to play at their leve, The Ren faires due to the percieved commercial level presentation. The SCA for their cane sword, The Live Roleplayers for their fantasy content I agree that all of these are superficial But wasnt an earlier comment taht people only knew each other by their society names, rather than the names they use in the society we call real life? In All these groups there are people doing serious work and have a true dedication to their life style but there are many more that are occasional players and drop ins If you have a bad experience with them sometimes its the culture some times its the person sometimes its the timing or it can even be the other newcomer.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:51 PM

Yo, Mousethief. It "could." Then again--I'm not SCA but when I do living history it's the same schtick. By the time I take what I learned in three years of grad school and four years of military experience, tricked out with a couple grand worth of period or recreated equipment--I ain't "playing" nothin'. My #1 and #2 personas were both selected in part because their military rank & situation was parallel to mine, not because I saw a movie once fer Chrissake. IMO it's possible to stand your definition of actual personality on it's head: seems to me who I chose to model to the world has a hell of a lot more to do with who I am than your criteria. Somebody else gave me my name; economic constraints determine where I live; and my wife's medical condition determines the number of children I have (i.e., zip). I chose none of that at the great cosmic, "What'll you have?" counter. But I choose to be Capt. Benjamin West, Commanding C Company, 4th California Infantry. Which makes him a much more valid me, I think.

Scuse me for being in a somewhat scratchy mood this PM. Ijuts have been nibbling at me all week. Present company not included, perforcely. :), sir.

CC


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:12 PM

People play "roles" in more then SCA or Faire or re-enactments. I have more then once been astounded when meeting people socially instead of during working hours at the difference in them. ditto in the world of acadamia. Likewise in the various facets of religious life. Even observing someone in relatinship to family rather then friends can show vast differences.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 01:09 AM

It's just me. I've been told I'm more consistent in the various places I frequent (online, in person, with family, with workers, etc.) than anybody (the person in question) had ever met. What I am, I am. I have various names for myself (I won't go into the various names I've worn -- PM if you're interested) but they all name the same person. I tend to distrust people who are too different depending upon where they are; it's a weakness, I'm sure; they are probably better people and more charitable and friendly than I'll ever hope to be. Ignore me; eventually I'll go away.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:26 AM

Wait just a carnsarned minute there, mousethief! Weren't you the one chiding ME for beating up on myself? If I have to cut it out, so do you. So there.

My original "beef" was that I wanted to get to know people and (quoting myself here) "not JUST their characters." I had and have no objection to socializing with people as we are role-playing and, in fact, have done so in my D&D-playing days. My problem is that I want to feel free to "break out" of the role and explore the differences Mario describes above (people taking on different roles in different circumstances) and get a better picture of the "whole" of each of these people.

It seems apparent from other responses above that the answer is to make sure, if I do join SCA or a Ren fair or a reenactment group, that I do socialize with other members in various other settings (not always easy, as has been pointed out). Unfortunately, my D&D experience was that some friends, whom I had gotten to know a couple of years before they took up the game, became interested in it to the exclusion of other social activities. On short visits to see them, I found myself observing their game without being invited to create a character to join their "world" (they didn't want to deal with the character after I left). When chatting on the phone, they were describing their characters' activities at length, and their own almost not at all. So we drifted apart.

I guess I fear that the same would happen in the SCA or the other groups mentioned here.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 12:37 PM

No, Mousethief, don't go away. Whatever your name is.

Hey, did we ever settle the original question? Does anybody remember what it was?

CC


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 01:03 PM

Let's review:

"Some SCAdians I've encountered seem to take their membership a little too seriously, but is that the essence of the organization, that it's a religious thing rather than a historical study?"

Seems that the answer is "no", although the extent to which some members are described as having identified with their characters might be considered a sort of fanaticism, religious or not. But I can see where SCA members of the pagan or wicca persuasion (and others too) would not want a prospective employer to be influenced in his/her decision by prejudice or by lack of knowledge of what the SCA is all about.

But have we settled the question of what the SCA is all about? (after two years of thread discussion!) "Historical study" doesn't seem to cover it.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 01:09 PM

I don't think you can answer "What is SCA all about?" in one simple sentence. It's different things to different people.

Alex


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: SeanM
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 01:56 PM

As to the social aspects...

RPG is a slightly different beast, but the one place where both SCA and Ren seem to meet is that once you join, it seems to suck you completely in socially.

There are, of course, exceptions - but for the most part, almost every person I know is involved with the 'ren' life (or "SCA" life). It was never a concious decision, so much as my few friends who weren't already involved not really understanding why I'd want to dedicate the weekends out of half of the year to doing faires, and drifting. Most people I know have about the same thing happen. It seems that after a few years 'on the street', you wind up with about 90%+ rennie friends and 10% 'mundanes'.

Of course, it gets even worse when it comes to dating. "Gee, sorry honey. I know you have no interest in this hobby, but it DOES require that I be away the next 12 weekends in a place you keep hearing really weird and sordid rumours about. But don't worry, I still love you. Sure you don't want to go? No? Oh... the pool boy is cleaning the pool again? Didn't that just happen last weekend too?" I think I know one commited couple where the SO in question doesn't at least come out and 'gatelist' (sign in as a guest performer) for a weekend or two yearly.

It borders on obsession, but for a few of us it's also occasionally a real job...

M


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Melani
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 02:17 PM

I have never really completed any of my current characters the way I think I ought to for convincing presentation. I did pretty well some years ago at a Gold Rush faire, largely because I could simply transplant my real self to 1851 and add a few fictional details. I loved that faire even though it was a total bust (Northern Californians will remember it) because I pretty much spent my childhood reading about 19th century America and had not only a good background, but felt that I really understood the times and culture in an internal sense. After all, it wasn't that far away--my great-grandmother, who died when I was 16, was born in the 1870's. Elizabethans are like Martians by comparison--their culture and world view were extremely different from ours.So that is the character I really don't have internalized, even though I've been doing Ren faires for 15 years. My 1901 character is just transplanted me once again, with some fictional details--like the fact that I'm supposed to be a girl pretending to be a guy. I commented once that I don't seem to be fooling anyone, and one of my living history comrades told me it was because I didn't believe my own character myself. So I have been actually trying to write her story as if it were a novel, in a effort to internalize her. My Dickens character is very recent, and I have very little background in Victorian England, but once again, they weren't that totally different from us, so the creation has been a little easier.

I guess one reason I do this is that I grew up in the Chicago suburbs in the '50's and '60's, and it was safe but extremely boring. I always thought historic time periods were much more interesting and full of opportunity and excitement than my own.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,Gregory Blount
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 10:45 PM

My interviewing officer didn't ask me anything about either the SCA or being a vegetarian. The second is definitely a religion.


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: WickedLad
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:27 AM

for me the SCA in one simple sentence would be An activity where you get out of it as much as you are willing to put into it


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: Finny
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 04:28 AM

It's what you make it!


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:42 AM

A lot like Mudcat, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 12:53 PM

I guess like all aspects of life, societies, clubs, organizations, groups, religions, whatever. Stay away from the FANATICS, they are the 10% who cause 90% of the problems, the majority of the worlds people are OK. JohnB


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Subject: RE: Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 16 - 01:57 PM

My ex has been a 45 year member of the SCA and in my experience, It is more like a cult than a religion. There is even a site on the internet that gives you all things that the SCA has in common with cults. The SCA is not a secret organization, but it is an organization of secrets.


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