Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS

Subject: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 11:12 AM

Damn Capslock!

I am buying one for a relative and haven't a clue. What should I be looking for? Is a refurb OK? The refurbs say "Disks not included". HUH?

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Darowyn
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 11:42 AM

That would be the operating system disks. Most likely the operating system is already installed, but knowing which one would be useful.The one I'm using now is OSX 10.4.11.
Apple call it some kind of big cat- Jaguar possibly. The latest OS is 10.5.1, and that is called Leopard, and there are still some issues with the way that works with some music programs. Lepoard will only work on Intel Macs- not the old ones with Power PC processors from about three years ago.
So you need to know:-
Is it an intel processor?
What version of OSX does it have?
You can find the answers to these two questions if you click the little Apple at the top left of the screen then select "About This Mac"
Finally the big question.
Will they reinstall it for free if anything horrible happens (like a hard drive failure- out of twenty students with Macs, I've seen two of these this year)
And always remember, Macs never crash.
Mac devotees will believe that even after staring at the whirly beachball of death for a week!
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 11:44 AM

Refurbs don't include the software CDs that typically comes with new. The OS is installed though. The single unit iMacs are very good machines. Hell, the earlier ones are too.

Refurbs are okay, yes. Prefer a G4 or G5 for speed, and you want Mac OS X installed, preferably the version called 10.4.11.

You may have to buy, borrow, or steal the applications you want on top of the OS, such as Microsoft Office or iLife, depending on what the person will want to be doing.

A local Mac consultant is probably a good bet on helping decide what software h/she will want.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: peregrina
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 01:09 PM

refurb is fine...Applecare seems expensive but pays for itself if anything goes wrong. Don't go below OS X.4.10 (you probably can't anyway now)--the older systems won't do wireless broadband well. If it's a laptop, the new magnetic power cable thingy is excellent. External hard drive for back ups if it's for work. If the person you're getting it for is new to Macs, then perhaps buy from an apple store or a place with really good follow up service. Last thought: a manual from the Missing Manual series for both the Mac operating system and the most-used software--they are the clearest I've found.

MUGS (mac user groups--regionally organized) can be great sources of help, info, freebies.

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 01:29 PM

Cool! I have been investigating buying a second hand Mac for a couple of months. But, there aren't many around here (Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada). Also, I really don't know anyone who knows much about them so I shall follow this thread closely.

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 03:43 PM

Leopard does work on G5s.

It's been a very long time since Apple made a lemon, basically you get what you pay for in speed and peripheral capability. I'm using a very old Mac to write this (a 9600 with twin monitors) - they stay useful for a lot longer than Windows machines.

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: GUEST,cStu
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 04:27 PM

Even a refurb "should" come with the System Disks. The Disk Utility that comes in the Applications folder will not repair the Disk that is running the System (that would run the risk of trying to overwrite a part of the system that was in use) so you use the first install Disk to run Disk Utility on a minimum system from the CD/DVD. That way you can repair a part of the internal drive directory if you need to.

Having said that I bought a repaired G4 recently (cheap) that didn't have the original disks, but the shop burned me a DVD of the Instal disks I needed. They suggested not running Leopard on a G4 though people do ..

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Crowdercref
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 05:21 PM

FYI all the Lyngham House Music stuff is done of an old G4 iMac running both OS9.2 and OS 10.3.9 and an HP laser printer.

For recording and artwork we have an intel Imac and intel Mac book, both stunningly fast running 10.5.3

E.g the artwork for the new Cornwall Songwriters 'Cornish Lads' CD, many of Taffy Thomas' CDs, and quite a few others.

Oll an gwella

Mike

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 06:53 PM

Your very best shot, if you can afford it, is a modern G5 Intel dual-procesor iMac.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Bert
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 10:28 PM

...It's been a very long time since Apple made a lemon,...

Well I don't think they've made anything good since the IIc.

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 10:48 PM

Bert:

The IIc was an absolute clunker compared to the recent models. Have you tried one?


A

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: M.Ted
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 10:49 PM

WARNING!!! If you buy a refurbished unit, it MUST be a factory-refurbished unit, or you can not get Applecare for it--and, as mentioned above, you should not buy any Mac computer, especially a laptop, unless you have Applecare--

Mac laptops, particularly, in recent years have been plagued by something called "Random Shutdown Syndrome", a truly terrible, soul problem that is pretends to be solved and then re-occurs just as you start to believe that it has been taken care of. Without Applecare, you are up salt creek...

I know about this because I've had two, count them, two, Macbooks that had this problem. One was purchased new, with Applecare, and the other was purchased refurb'd from someone who seemed to be a factory authorized reseller.

I bought and registered the Applecare, and about three and a half months later, my MacBook Pro shut down, I did all the suggested fixes..finally contacted apple to get authorization for repairs, only to have them tell me that my my applecare did not apply because my computer' manufacture date had reverted to 1978 because it had been refurb'd by an outside vendor.

The thing was that the computer (and many like it) had been returned to apple for repair/replacement, and apple simply sold them off to independent techs who refurb'd them and sold them, probably without realizing that the Random Shutdown Syndrome often cannot be fixed.

Apple ultimately replaced the unit with a new one, which, by the time all was said and done, was the next generation, I came out OK--but from now on, if I buy a refurb at all, it will be from the Apple Store.

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 10:55 PM

I've never seen this happen, Ted. We have...let me see...six Macs running all the time at home. None of them have done this. Only one is a laptop, though. And as you say, it is a known syndrome with some laptops, and is not known to have a certain cure. It is really embarrassing, and way below the standard of techical responsibility Apple is usually known for.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: mattkeen
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 04:58 AM

PLEASE NOTE

The G5 is NOT an Intel mac

Refurbs from Apple are very good value.

We use a new iMac (great) and a MacBookPro for location recording (also great)

Get new or applle refurb - the cheapest of the imac range is a very powerful machine for the money.

In terms of performance the Intel machines walk all over the previous generations (G5, G4, etc etc)

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: GUEST,Long term Mac User
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 06:10 AM

For what its worth I've using Mac's since my old corporate employer did a massive switch to Apple in 1990 (approx). Since then I've used them in corporate and domestic environments for a number of different applications. So here are my observations:

1. Software reliability. After Apple introduced OS X (10.1 etc) in about 2001 the operating system became very reliable. Individual programs may lock up (generating the 'spinning beach ball of death' graphical indicator), but the remedy is to click back onto the Apple log and 'force quit' the program. Its very rare to actually crash the OS itself. Certain programs will crash more than others in my experience (e.g very long MS Powerpoint presentations). If you feel the need to get the latest OS disks, they can be obtained from Apple.

2. Hardware reliability. Desktop Macs seem to go on for ever. I had one which lasted 10 years which would still do useful word processing etc at the time I finally scrapped it. My current desktop, (a 533Mhz G4) has been in daily use since i bought it in 2000, and has survived three upgrades of operating system. I still do most of my professional work (report writing and spreadsheeting) on this machine.

3. Laptops. I'm afraid laptops do break (or rather, people break them) I've gone through quite a few Mac laptops, which I use for presentations, training, and music recoding editing. I have had to replace screens, hard discs, and ancillary components like power connectors. But laptops do get dropped, kicked, and have coffee spilt on them. I always back up whatever is on the laptop and I generally keep critical work on the desktop G4.

4. M.Ted mentions random shutdown syndrome. A few years ago Apple switched from using Motorola chips (the G3, G4, G5 series) to various Intel chips. These are wonderful, powerful etc, but they RUN HOT. My MacBook Pro will get too hot to have on my lap when I'm doing certain intensive tasks such as music editing. However, at least the heat is escaping from its metal case. Many musicians use the MacBook (not the MacBook Pro) laptops which are plastic cased and do not dissipate heat so well. I think you'll find, MT, that there is a safety thermostat that switches the machine off if it gets too hot. My son uses a black MacBook for heavy Cubase/Logic Pro work and has had it shutdown on a few occasions. The solution seems to be to use a laptop stand which gets cooling air flowing around the computer. Don't use it for long periods on soft furnishings, bed covers, etc as these don't let the air circulate underneath.

Hope this helps y'all

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 10:50 AM

What you say is true, Long-Term Mac User, Intel chips do run hot(Apple is now apparently shying away from the term "laptop" for that reason), but RSS is not a normal operating problem.

"Random Shutdown Syndrome" is just that--it occurs randomly--not just when the unit is hot. My "problem unit" *was* a MacBook Pro. On one occasion, it shut down on eleven consecutive start-up attempts. I tried all the fixes, and Apple did major repairs and replaced a bunch of hardware, but none of it worked, and they ultimately replaced it-and my new unit hasn't given me a lick of trouble--

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:33 PM

No Comment

John

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:47 PM

John:

You might have commented that that rant had nothing to do with OSX.


A

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:50 PM

"Random Shutdown Syndrome" - that's what my brain does...

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 12:57 AM

It's funny, and a bit of computer nostalgia, as well--I do remember the problems that he's talking about, though they were easy to work around--

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: mattkeen
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 07:16 AM

Intels do run hotter, but the initial probs with MacBookPro laptops running v hot about 18 months ago are long solved.

My Intel MacBookPro is great

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 08:08 AM

Thank you all for the comments. I now have to go price shopping.

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: mattkeen
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 05:23 AM

Price shopping with Macs is very simple
Its do I get a new one or a refurb one (both from the Apple store)

Subject: RE: Tech: mACiNTOSH cOMPUTERS
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 05:41 PM

Does this help?