comedians or folkies

Subject: comedians or folkies
From: GUEST,spb-cooperator
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:51 PM

Who do you consider are.....

(a) Comedians who sing folk songs   vs Folk singers who do comedy

and as an aside

(b) Comedians who act vs actors who do comedy.

and

(c) other permutations

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:55 PM

you gotta larf ........

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Anne Lister
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:58 PM

Well, I was once described as "Anne Lister, a chubby witch, performed cosmic love songs while doing a comedy routine" - but that was the News of the World, and what do they know? I'm not sure which part of that comment was the most inaccurate or hurtful to the pride, but they do say no publicity is bad publicity, don't they? Or something like that?

Anne

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:07 PM

Haddaway, Tabster! Chubby? Lang way te gan yet, pet!

News o' the World? When aah wez in me early 20's aah read it coz a thowt aah should move up from The Beano - Aah lasted a month and aah still read The Beano.

Honest, Pet! Aah think yer a lovely shape although aah cannit comment on the 'witch' bit! - Aah dee knaah that you are a helluva entertainer - Not just a songstress, not just a musician, YOU are an entertainer - The Complete Package (and beautifully wrapped if aah may say so)

Te be honest, ye could be humpty-backed and squinty-eyed (and ye knaah yer not) but your songs and your voice would still give uz a shiver

Take it as a compliment from one of The Phatt-B'Stards

G-P

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:15 PM

Havin' said aall that......

Shep Woolley - fits in to either category, he's a superb songwriter and singer AND a very funny storyteller - Ye divvent get one withoot the other

Is it a shameful thing to be a singer AND funny?

Aah've sat through enough festival & folk club guests who have moved from song to song to song with just the barest acknowledgement of an introduction to each one. So far up their own a*se they could wear themselves as a wig! - Even one who filled a 45 minute festival set with 3 tunes and a history of his marriage break-up (a stunning afternoon that was)

Aa've also sat through the same festivals and folk clubs with guests who have entertained with their anecdotes as well as their songs.

Aah knaah which aah prefer

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:32 PM

I have to think that The Smothers Brothers were the first comedy act to really base their routines around folk songs. They were good enough musicians to use the songs to "take off" into their gags. They got their start in the same sorts of clubs that The Kingston Trio, The Limeliters and many others did; i.e., The Purple Onion and The Hungry i, in San Francisco, etc.

However, I'm sure that if you asked Tom Smothers whether or not they considered themselves folk singers, he'd smack you with his yo-yo. For those who didn't know, Tom (the dumb one) was the very serious brains behind the business and the act.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: quokka
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:50 PM

the humblebums? Would have loved to have seen 'em

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 09:10 PM

I always wonder why threads like this are always started by GUEST - whoever .
When Granda Copper (The one who wrote all his lyrics in a Foolscap note book in 19twenty thingy ) was singing in the village pub for beer , was he being an entertainer , or establishing a semi religious art form ?

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:18 AM

There have been some on the Folk Scene who were really comedians but were popular Jasper Carrot,for example filled the Folk club at Coleshill Birmingham every time he appeared and likewise Billy Connelly. For those going to listen to Folk music however would have been disappointed. I went to see Richard Digance in Croydon and went to hear music and although his guitars were lined up on stage he rarely used them. Some artists are naturally funny and Bernard Wrigley never fails to combine a very funny show with excellent accompaniment and playing. With Bernard there is a serious musician in there waiting to escape.There are others trying to be funny who are not,these can be annoying.The best for me is a musician who is amusing,has a personality, uses one liners, but most of his act involves music,which is why I am there.
Al

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Anne Lister
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:27 AM

Thank you for your kind words, Geordie!


Anne

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Art Thieme
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:43 AM

Geordie and Anne,

That is as nice a tribute as I have ever read here at Mudcat. I wish I'd heard you, Anne. But that from Geordie makes me wish that we Anne and I) had lived together too!

Love,

Art

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:51 AM

Vin Garbutt never fails to amaze me. Amidst his serious, moving and often controversial songs he has the audience in stiches with some very funny dialogue.

Mike Harding is still a good folk singer despite his Rochdale Cowboy phase and time presenting Folk on Two.

Comedians who sing folk songs? Prime example must be the Two Ronnnies! Russ Abbot did quite a bit as well though. And I believe Jack Dee dances Morris!

Comedian who can act - Bill Bailey.

Actor who does comedy - Ardal O'Hanlan (Or did he do stand up first?)

Hope this adds to whatever list is being made:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:57 AM

Tom Rush - Some of us would call him a folk singer. But then again "WHAT IS FOLK" ??? But he tells some killer stories. Some of them have been released on a CD called "Trolling for Owls" which is what he calls taking a small fluffy dog for a walk.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM

I saw Richard Digance in Croydon in the early 70s (supporting Steeleye Span). The songs were so-so, but the patter and the way he worked the audience were brilliant. I can still remember chunks of his act, including his opening line -

Hello, good evening and welcome to Folk Club, my name's Roy Harper...

I can't watch him now without thinking how good he used to be. (Actually I can't watch him now at all.)

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: GUEST,In My Humble Opinion
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:24 AM

It's obvious I know, Les Barker and the Mrs Ackroyd Band, on all its permutations, the funniest thing going on the music scene currently.

Tubular Dogs

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:54 PM

Art, m'deario!!

Hev a trip roond   http://www.annelister.com/    and hev a bit lissen te one of the most delightful voices on the scene today.

Honest! We're not related - Aah just love her to bits.

Anyway - Enough of this! Me missus'll kick me a*se if she gets wind of this fan-worship

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:31 PM

Had the pleasure of seeing Billy Connoly, Richard Digance, Mike Harding, and Jasper Carrot before fame took them from the Folk scene and let them loose in the comedy sphere. Why try to draw an imaginary line???? Many others I have seen have gone on to be great Folkies in their own right.....so what's the deal here????

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Gene Burton
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:50 PM

It's probably fair to say there are those on the folk scene who are comedians without even realising it :>)

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Gurney
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:04 PM

There are several actors that I know of, and probably thousands that I don't, who are also singers and musicians. I even saw Mac in CSI-NY playing the base guitar in that, and it looked authentic.
I own two CDs sung by actors in Coronation Street, and Curley's has a couple of folk numbers in it.
Pam Ayers is a most refreshing combination, a poet(ess) and a comedien(ne), wery unusual.
I always liked John James' dry wit.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Vin2
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:26 AM

Saw the Humblebums at the M/c Free Trade Hall many years ago with BC before he found his true vacation in life.

Reckon Vin Garbutt must be the best around at the mo, truly great muscician, singer/songwriter and hilarious raconteur.

Mike Harding was, i reckon, was (i'm sure still is) a great singer/musician first but also very funny and probably decided that to make his fortune it would have to put comedy first.

The there's Stan (the man) Ackrington (see im this w/end at Saddleworth Folk Fest) and of course Les Barker - hope he's feeling better.

See y'all at Saddlewoth.

Vin

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: CupOfTea
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 08:33 AM

While Art is throwing out compliments, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that Art Thieme is one of the funniest fabulous musicians and repositories of folk memory in the United States. If we were actually a civilized country, like Japan, he would have long been designated a "Living National Treasure."

I'd nominate Lou & Peter Berryman as folk musicians who do comedy - their erudite lyrics illuminating the foibles of the common folk make their songs passing into the folk tradition inevitable.

I second the Smothers Brothers as comedians who do folk music. My exposure to them at a formative age convinced me you could love folk music without having to take it oh-so-seriously as Holy Writ.

And for some vintage Brit folk-comedy, Rambling Sid Rumpole, my dearie-os

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 09:33 AM

A few names which have not yet been mentioned ...

I think Noel Murphy made me laugh more than any other folk performer I have ever seen, and I have seen almost all the British names mentioned on this thread so far.

Grant Baynham runs a very close second.

In the States, Eric Schwartz is slightly under the radar, but is a brilliant musician who has the gift of being naturally funny.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 09:56 AM

How could I forgot the man himself - Rambling Sid Rumpo - aka Kenneth Williams.

:D

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Colin Randall
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 10:41 AM

Beyond those already mentioned, Johnny Handle and a trio called the Northern Front (Mike Elliott, Ed Pigford and Nick whatisname) were very funny with their Geordie/Mackem adaptations of biblical stories.
The music was good, too.
Maybe you had to come from the region to appreciate it fully, though I did see Mike Elliott years later, solo in Jersey, and he went down very well. If you saw the film Billy Elliot, he played the boxing teacher

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: GUEST,Rambling Syd Rumpo
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 12:14 PM

"Ullo, mi dearios"

Now my dearios, I'll tether my nadgers to a grouting pole for the old grey mare is grunging in the meadow. Well, better there than here- it makes so much work for the char. Tis about a fabled horse, the Somerset Nog- Punch and half Dachshund. It gets very foggy on the moors. Anyway, the Nog is a strange looking creature- three-hands high and eighteen-foot long. They're not pretty to look at- but the rhubarb in that part of the world be magnificent. My song tells of a man who wants to go to the great fair at Ganderpoke Bog- so he asks the farmer for a loan of the Nog, so he can take all his friends with him, and it proceeds in this fashion.

Reg Pubes, Reg Pubes
Lend me your great Nog,
Rollock me fussett
and grindle me nodes.
For I want to go-o
to Gangerpoke Bog, with-
Len Possett, Tim Screevy,
the reverend Phipps,
Peg-leg Loombucket,
Solly Levy, Ginger Epstein,
Able Seaman Truefitt,
Scotch Lil,
Messrs. Cattermole, Mousehabit,
Neapthigh and Trusspot, solicitors
and Commissioners for Oaths,
Father Thunderghast, Fat Alice,
Con Mahony, Yeti Rosencrantz,
Foo Tong Robinson and Uncle Ted Willis an' all-
and Uncle Ted Willis and all....

So they all get on-except Fat Alice, who don't get on with anybody, and off they go, but sad to relate- the horse snaps in two and expires- but they do say as how its ghost walks abroad- in two halves, and if you be passing Ganderpoke Bog at midnight they say you can hear the two ghostly halves of the Nog singing in duet...

Reg Pubes, Reg Pubes
you lent your great Nog-
Rollock me fussett
and grindle me nodes.
And now my remains are in
Ganderpoke Bog- with
(as quickly as possible)
Len Possett, Tim Screevy,
the reverend Phipps,
Peg-leg Loombucket,
Solly Levy, Ginger Epstein,
Able Seaman Truefitt,
Scotch Lil,
Messrs. Cattermole, Mousehabit,
Neapthigh and Trusspot, solicitors
and Commissioners for Oaths,
Father Thunderghast, Fat Alice,
Con Mahony, Yeti Rosencrantz,
Foo Tong Robinson and Uncle Ted Willis an' all-
and Uncle Ted Willis and all.

More Mi Dearios

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 01:12 PM

I `ad that Kenneth Williams in my cab one night. `e said "Before you take me `ome could you `ang around a bit while I do me shopping?"
I said "I`m awful sorry guv but I`m doing a gig tonight in a club with that folksinger John Foreman and I`m a bit late. `es ever so funny"
`e said "Folksinger? Funny? I thought they were all a bit funny!!"
Whaddam I like??

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 01:56 PM

Then there's Potteries duo His Worship & The Pig, famous for their Christmas Shows.

A Christmas Tail is hilarious, but the follow-up (the title escapes me)
is, IMO, even better and screamingly funny.

It made me laugh out loud and, keen as my sense of humour is (I like to think) not many people can do that.

Stanley Accrington, Les Barker and Bernard Wrigley can do it too.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Zhenya
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 02:13 PM

Not sure if this exactly fits your definition of folkies, but one of the best performances I went to in recent years was an evening with Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham. They are both virtuoso musicians (on fiddle and accordion, for those who don't know of them) and were also incredibly funny throughout the evening.

At one point, they told an anecdote about being introduced at a festival as singers, although neither of them usually does any singing at their performances. They described how they quickly threw together a work to perform - A version of "How much is that doggie in the window?" done with Cajun style music, and sung backwards in poorly accented French! it was funny enough to hear about it, but then they proceeded to perform the very piece. (Phil on the vocals.) It brought down the house! (and sounded surprisingly Cajun, vocals included!) Somehow, they were able to include pieces like that, and later in the program, a moving piece Phil wrote for his late brother, fiddler Johnny Cunningham, and make everything work together beautifully. A really memorable concert.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 06:45 PM

"It's probably fair to say there are those on the folk scene who are comedians without even realising it"

We had one here for a while, but he's gone quiet now, perhaps he's taken another walk...

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Mark Ross
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 06:54 PM

The funniest folk singer I ever saw was Utah Phillips. Having spent a considerable amount of time watching him, from the audience as well as sharing the stage with him, I can attest to this. When you find yourself laughing at the same joke on the seventh night, having heard it all 7 nights.......


Mark Ross

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:05 PM

It's not the jokes, it's the way he tells 'em...

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:17 PM

Just two words.

Tony Capstick.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:45 PM

I'm afraid I'm not qualified to venture an opinion on this subject, so I won't.

Seamus

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:57 PM

CupOfTea,
It's very nice of you to say that. Thanks.

Mark,
Seeing Utah Phillips use humor to literally endear himself to an audience who never ever would've otherwise sat still for 20 seconds
(let alone 2 hours in a bar folk club) to hear a guy read the Wobbly Preamble to 'em and/or get 'em to sing along on "Dump The Bosses Off Your Back"---well, it opened my eyes for real. After that, the finding of tales and one-liners to set up my songs was a main priority. I thought long and hard about what went before the songs. The tale of the dog that got cut in half and put together wrong--but was better than ever afterward. That one was a perfect lead in for my singing Utah's "Queen Of The Rails"---or "Old Blue"---or any songs with dogs in them.----Or the dog that bled to death when his tail was cut o0ff so they took the ghost of the dog to the liq

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Art Thieme
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 08:09 PM

...uor store 'cause that's where they "retail spirits."

Art

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 08:29 PM

I love that one, Art. I remember a conversation that you and I had where you told me you wanted to thank Utah for teaching you how to use humor to make important points. Towards the end I had the privilege of speaking with Utah on a very regular basis. I recounted your telling me that, and he spent a lot of time explaining to me how important it was to use humor so folks didn't turn off. He was an amazing man with an amazing grasp of the importance of showing the humor or the human condition in order to get folks to understand the foibles of the human condition.

Seamus Kennedy .... you are uniquely qualified to comment. You are one of the people who uses humor more effectively than anyone I have ever seen. And you are a master of the instruments, and have a song repertoire that is unparalleled. At the drop of a hat I have seen you sing in Irish, very old, obscure folk songs, and modern stuff.

I don't believe this is an either/or question. But given the choice of a folksinger who doesn't use humor, and one who does...... give me the humorist everytime. Just as long as they aren't using humor to mask a lack of depth on the music, that is.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 08:47 PM

Jaysus Mick, I was being facetious...or is that abstemious?
Anyway, it's one of those words with all the vowels in order.

Comedy and folk music are not mutually exclusive.

Tommy Makem probably could have done a night of stand-up.
He used some hilarious stories in his act.

Nearly all the professional folkies I know use comedy in their shows;
I think a lot of us don't like what is called "dead air" on radio - gaps between songs where nothing is said, so we fill them with patter/humorous intros/gags/silly bits of business.

done well and judiciously, it can enhance a musical performance.

Seamus

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 09:01 PM

Jaysus, Seamus, I know that you were being facetious. But you know us shamrock Yanks. I had to clear it up cuz we are a bunch of ignorant louts that take everything literally.....***chuckle***

Mick

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:16 AM

As I'm fond of saying, "If ya don't have a sense of humor, it isn't funny!"   ;-)

Mick, with all that's on your plate right now----whew. There is so much in this chaos we call life lately that just isn't funny --- to find you looking in here tonight focuses me anew on what's important. My love to Ciara---and all the healing thoughts I can toss her way.

Again, thanks!
Art

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 02:25 AM

Art Thieme wrote:
"The tale of the dog that got cut in half and put together wrong--but was better than ever afterward."

I'm sorry if I'm being slow, but could you explain this one? I don't get it.   I liked the one about the liquor store.

By the way, have you heard the one about the cannibal who passed his mother in the forest?

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 02:40 AM

Alan Sherman wrote and performed some very funny parodies of folksongs.

Homer and Jethro were also very funny and parodied country songs, or even just performed them in a witty manner, early in their career. I haven't seen or heard very much of them, but they were funny and both could really play.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Bugsy
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 03:26 AM

I'm amazed that no one yet has mentioned Derek Brimstone. (Well they have now).

Also Miles Whooton and Steve Womack.

All consumate performers, singers and musicians as well as being VERY FUNNY!


Cheers


Bugsy

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:31 AM

The trouble was Derek was so good at the comedy (cited as a major influence by Billy Connolly, Tony Capstick, Mike Harding, and Jasper Carrott) that people missed the point, which was surely his musicianship - and the fact that most of the songs were quite serious in nature.

His footprint is actually everywhere you look in the folk revival. Maddy Prior was actually in a band in with Derek when she was about seventeen. Ralph McTell devotes part of his telling of the Streets of London success story to Derek's role. Is there anybody from Fred Jordan and the Copper Family and The Rev Gary Davis - with whom he hasn't done gigs?

I think people often went away from his concerts - feeling very entertained, but without having grasped the fact that they had been in the presence of a great guitarist, banjo player and troubador.

He was certainly the major influence in my approach to folkmusic. It sort of depresses me that some people on Mudcat will fail to have understood the nature and diversity of English folk music so much, that they will begrudge this seminal figure a place in the tradition.

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:02 AM

One of the best tales I ever heard was from Derek. His granddaughter had just won a prize at the school summer fete for the most unusual pet. A tin of sardines...

:D

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: quokka
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:45 AM

on that note, Dave, I knew a three year old who, on being served tuna sandwiches, asked "Why do you keep your fish in a tin? We keep ours in a fish bowl."

Subject: RE: comedians or folkies
From: Gurney
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 01:54 AM

Interesting that Ralph McTell thinks Derek added to his success. Derek tells how he and Ralph went out to a London folk club in Ralph's car, and got lost!

'Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London..'