BS: Happy Olympics!

Subject: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM

Looks like we can all enjoy the Olympics safe in the knowledge we are contributing to the legitimisation of a brutal dictatorship.

Pretend this isn't happening . . .

. . . and let's not discuss this.

On the other hand - who gives a toss? Sod the human rights and freedom of speech - let's have a look at those birds playing the beach vollyball!

PHWOOAARRRR!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:40 PM

Are you the one who's actually interested in the games? Here otSC one would hardly know they're imminent.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:52 PM

The only thing that reminded me that the Limp Dicks are here again was an assortment of silly faces and silly symbols on my 12-pack of Coca-Cola.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 12:53 PM

I can't go and they very rarely show anything in which I'm interested. Why bother? I can see gymnasts here at the annual Simplot Games with far, far less trouble and the DNCFR is a lot more exciting than weightlifting.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:22 PM

Sorry, y'all; I grew up loving the Olympics and still do.

I look upon the inevitable political controversies as inevitable but unfortunate, and relatively insignificant in comparison to the athletic competition and the very real promotion of fellowship and international understanding, which actually happens, believe it or not, among athletes and fans despite everything.

Favoring (i.e., rooting for) participants from your own homeland is only natural, and perfectly OK (at least, up to a point beyond which nationalism can become unattractive if not intolerable).

Because the Olympics provides such a huge and unavoidable worldwide "stage," demonstrations and various antics, and even outright terrorism (as in Munich '72), are always possible. Let's hope the proceedings this year are peaceful as usual.

Sure, the Chinese government is repressive ~ that's nothing new, for crying out loud. Allowing them to host this incomparble international event should not be characterized as a "reward" for bad behavior ~ I see it as an event that can only promote openness, shine the light of international scrutiny upon that entire vast nation, and in the long run result in far more positive outcomes than negative.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 01:44 PM

" I see it as an event that can only promote openness, shine the light of international scrutiny upon that entire vast nation, and in the long run result in far more positive outcomes than negative"

That must be why they awarded Hitler the games - obviously it didn't matter about the consequences and after all, it was about the shot-put rather than the Reich.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:22 PM

Actually, even Hitler's 1939 extravaganza had plenty of positive effect. The best-remembered ten seconds of that entire Olympiad is Jesse Owens putting the lie to Nazi racism. And that's not something that is important only in retrospect, from our distant viewpoint 60+ years later: it was very widely reported and commented upon at the time, as well. If it did not convince huge numbers of former racists to change their minds, it probably had that effect of a few ~ and in any event, it did NOTHING to reinforce the opposite viewpoint.

If the Olympics had not been held in Germany that year, would Hitler not have invaded Poland? I seriously doubt it. The events of that Olympiad may or may not have affected the course of history; I believe that there were many relatively small repercussions, some good and some bad, but that the overall march of time would probably have proceeded in much the same way that it actually did.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: pdq
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:32 PM

Jesse Owens amazed people with his Long Jump victory in the 1936 Olympics, which were held in Berlin, Germany. That was long before the invasion of Poland. Most Western countries still thought the German government was capable of becoming a good actor on the World stage. It did not work out that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 03:46 PM

China were awarded the Olympics on the basis they improved their human rights, something they have not done.

I supposed I have a a biased view on this subject, having been interested in Tibetan Buddhism for many years, and you only have to talk to Tibetans for a short while to understand the depth of suffering of these people. Expand that to the other abuses visited on the country's citizens and for me, it's too much to ignore.

I just can't be part of this lie - I have real sympathy for the athletes who have trained so hard and whose lives have lead to this point. Good luck to each and every one of them, and I hope things do change in China, but I doubt it.

No one cares, no-one listens. Money to be made, can't let human rights get in the way of a running race. What a world.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:15 PM

China under Mao was abysmal in regard to human rights, but then things weren't all that great in any previous historical era. It has always been a very authoritarian and paternalistic society.

Chinese treatment of Tibet is absolutley horrendous. The central government may well have improved their treatment of Han Chinese and other ethnic groups residing within their territory without budging an inch in their clampdown on Tibet.

Would people be treated any better in China if the Olympics were not about to begin in Beijing? I doubt it. Athletes will complete, a lucky few (in a very few dispiclines) will parlay their performances into future riches, big corporations will will make most of the real money, and a whole lot of shiny new infrastructure will remain in place for the foreseeable future. Pretty much the same as if the event were being held anywhere.

The sad lot of the Tibetans probably won't be improved, but it's even less likely to worsen. The greatly increased attention and news coverage, etc., is much more likely to help than to harm the Dalai Lama and his followers.

PS: I've always had the impression that Jesse Owens' victory in the 100-meter dash at Berlin, rather than the long jump, was the defining moment of those Games. (The 100 traditionally determines "the world's fastest human.") Owens did win multiple gold medals that year, definitely including the 100, long jump, and at least one relay. He may have taken the 200 as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:22 PM

A similar/related report:

IOC admits Internet censorship deal with China

Agreement reached on basis that blocked sites are not Games related

MSNBC News Services
updated 8:31 a.m. PT, Wed., July. 30, 2008

BEIJING - Some International Olympic Committee officials cut a deal to let China block sensitive Web sites despite promises of unrestricted access, a senior IOC official admitted on Wednesday.
...
China had committed to providing media with the same freedom to report on the Games as they enjoyed at previous Olympics, but journalists have this week complained of finding access to sites deemed sensitive to its communist leadership blocked.

"I regret that it now appears BOCOG has announced that there will be limitations on Web site access during Games time," IOC press chief Kevan Gosper said, referring to Beijing's Olympic organizers.
"I also now understand that some IOC officials negotiated with the Chinese that some sensitive sites would be blocked on the basis they were not considered Games related," he said.

/quote

The article itself is a fairly long one, but I found more interesting comment in a pdf linked in the article:

http://www.rsf.org/IMG/pdf/Guide_FCCC.pdf

... an "advice to foreign correspondence" from the Foreign Correspondents Club of China (www.fccchina.org).

This latter document attempts to give a "realistic view" of conditions faced by foreigners - especially by news people - in China now. Comments on problems that presence of "foreigners" may cause for the locals are also rather "chilling."

(A guide to the Internet, and comment on some tools and methods for "circumventing" censorship of communications - and avoiding "spying" on contents by unwanted eyes, may be of fairly general interest to a few people here - with respect to "governments other than China(?)" See pp 23 - 25 in the .pdf.)

The last few pages of the .pdf also offer some comment on the rather substantial differences between the "Central Government" - where there may actually be an intent to be more "civilized" and conditions in more remote places where "Lord of the Flies" comes to mind.

Interest in the Olympics is not requisite for "enjoyment" of this document, if one has any interest in international affairs.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 04:48 PM

"The greatly increased attention and news coverage, etc., is much more likely to help than to harm the Dalai Lama and his followers."

I'm afraid that's simply not true - the recent riots in Lhasa and across Tibetan areas within Tibet China itself have been dealt with ruthlessly - all the time the Chinese people themselves have had the truth hidden from them.

Check this film out: Tibet: Cry of the Snow Lion.

The monk on the home page had just run into a burning police station to rescue prisoners after the Chinese set it on fire - you can see he's charred and the skin hangs off him in sheets (visible in the film). He was arrested and tortured (but torture's OK anywhere these days), released and arrested again - he died in captivity.

In fact, type Lhasa riots into Google and see the results that come up - pro Chinese every one. What's happened there? No BBC, NY Times, Reuters etc - pro-Chinese across the board. Shit - that looks like someone is censoring the results. Page 5 before the Wikipedia article comes up - that's unbelievable.

Hang on - I'll try Tiannamen Square. That works.

Someone's controlling Google.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 08 - 07:10 PM

"Hitler's 1939 extravaganza"

Hmmm, thought it was 1936...


"Someone's controlling Google. "


OOOOOOHHHHHHH! THAT's a surprise...

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Olympics!
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jul 08 - 04:02 AM

"OOOOOOHHHHHHH! THAT's a surprise..."

Bet you didn't think it was the Chinese censoring what you read though did you?