Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays

Subject: Irish Travellers in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 02:42 PM

If anybody is able to tune into Lyric FM (Ireland), they are broadcasting three programmes on the Irish Travellers we recorded (mainly in London) (1973-2004), starting this coming Saturday.
They are scheduled for Saturdays August 23rd, 30th and September 6th, probably around 3pm.
The general title is 'Come All You Loyal Travellers' and the individual programmes are as follows:
1 'Song Hunting'; (early days of project) - singers include 'Pop's' Johnny Connors, Bill Cassidy, Andy Cash, Mary Cash etc.
2 'Remembering The Pictures'; (devoted entirely to Mikeen McCarthy, singer, storyteller, ballad seller, tinsmith, horsed-dealer etc.) from Cahersiveen, Kerry.
3 'A Right Way To Do It' (singing style, repertoire, etc) singers include Mary Delaney, Paddy Reilly, etc.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 03:45 PM

How is it that I'm a traveller, but I'm not a gypsy?

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: GUEST,Meeney
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 09:55 PM

For anyone who doesn't know, a typical Irish traveller:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZPH14zZi9M&feature=related

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: InOBU
Date: 17 Aug 08 - 10:28 PM

Having checked out the expressions of hatred in the comments at the above link, all I can say is there is no typical Pavee, just as there is no typical Lovari, Matchuwaya, Kalderasha, Churia, Tatare, Kale, Yenishe, Sinti, Domari, Romanichal, Gitano... what we all have in common is the ashes and dust of our dead from Aushwitz to King James' genocide, to the Traveller kid beaten to death less than ten years ago in England by a crowd, or the women and children murdered in Eastern Europe, the women sterilized against their will in this decade in Slovinia... all this said, I would say there is not a typical Gyzho (non Romany person) I would not lay all this at each of your feet, you choose to take this on one soul at a time.

Lorcan

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:16 AM

Guest Meeny - wonder how you know your man on the clip is typical - how many have you met.
Of course, you could listen to the programmes and meet a few more!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 04:39 AM

I agree with Jim,
Thankyou for letting us know about this programme,I will listen,
shame its only half an hour.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 05:27 AM

Cap'n
Three half hour programmes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 09:48 AM

I do wish I could pick up the station in New York... ah well...
Enjoy it friends
Lorcan

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 10:17 AM

Lyric FM programs can be heard and in some cases downloaded after broadcast from the RTE/Lyric website

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM

Just had confirmation that time of broadcasts will be 3-30pm
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Fliss
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 02:57 PM

Programme sounds very interesting.

We get Irish traveller pipers occasionally at The Boat Inn, Jackfield. Father & Son, I wont name them. The music they play is just mind blowing. They arrive unnanounced and come to a couple of sessions while they are in the area. This year they came 4 weeks running. I expect there was a fair few drives block paved in the area!

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 04:06 PM

InOBU,
Re. "Traveller kid beaten to death less than ten years ago in England by a crowd,"

I feel terrible that I should have forgotten such an event.
Are you sure you have it right?

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Aug 08 - 09:38 PM

Johnny Delaney, a fifteen year old Irish Traveller was killed in Ellesmere Port, Cheshire, May of 2003. Those who killed him called him "Gypo"... and oddly enough, rather than being seen as a racial murder, they were found guilty of manslaughter, receiving only a few years for killing him. It seems the judge, as with many on this board, are not greatly offended by this last great prejudice.

This is not only the case in England, in the Czech Republic the average sentence for killing a "Gypsy" is measured in months ... as in the case of the skin heads who threw a young Romany mother off a bridge into a swift river, drowning her ... the judge ruled it was the river which killed her, not those who threw her in...

Look at the photos last month in Italy, of Italian sunbathers ignoring the corpses of two young Romany children who drowned in the surf, and were left for hours on the beach like dogs...

After so many hundreds of years I don't know why I expect more. I may still believe the world is growing up, growing out of prejudice and hatred ... because as long as we rule one person out of the contract of human expectation, no one of us is safe ... even the most self confident bigot in the mainstream may someday find that they are ruled out of the contract by illness or happenstance...

I don't know ... it seems we are too old for this, we poor silly humanity.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 03:28 AM

This example can is mirrored over and over.
A couple of years ago here in Ireland a farmer found a Traveller on his land who he 'suspected' was about to rob him. He shot him in the leg, wounding him, beat him with a stick as he lay on the ground, went into his home and re-loaded and administered the coup-de-gráce, killing him.
Verdict - self-defence, punishment - none.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 03:49 AM

Shocking cases Larry and Jim.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Paul Burke
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 04:21 AM

BNP invited Czech racist, who advocates a "final solution" for the Roma, to speak at their annual festival last weekend.

Simon Darby, deputy leader of the BNP, said: "There is a Gypsy problem there. What's wrong with people who talk frankly about their problems?"

The problem isn't Roma, it's racism.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 08:17 AM

Sadly , there are a number of 'travellers' of all persuasions who do NOT act like civilised people at all , Thus providig evidence for the racists to blame ALL Travellers for any thing at all .

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 08:51 AM

"Sadly , there are a number of 'travellers' of all persuasions who do NOT act like civilised people at all"
Is that not the case with all communities? I was far more worried about walking up Wandsworth High Street late at night than any of the hundreds of Traveller sites I have been on. Nowadays I wouldn't want to walk in certain parts of Limerick or Dublin (or even Ennis) after dark.
Why pick out Travellers for special mention?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 09:06 AM

Because people in this thread are talking about Travellers Jim !!
Should I talk about idiots from OTHER communities in a travellers thread ?

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 11:29 AM

on the other hand.
I would defend my property against anyone, whether they are travellers,or people who live in houses.
I believe the farmer Mr Martin from Wisbech,was right,not because the burglars were travellers,but because the Police were not protecting him,he had been burgled before and had to protect himself,it is irrelevant whether the burglar is a traveller or a house dweller.,he was under attack,and was not being protected by the Police.
travellers have committed violent offences,but then so have house dwellers.,there are probably more attacks on house dwellers by other house dwellers,than attacks by travellers on house dwellers.[please correct me[with bona fide statistics] if I am wrong
violence against others should be condemned,regardless of whether the perpetrators are travellers or house dwellers.
let us not forget that the majority of travellers are not violent to non travellers, can anyone provide statistics that this statement is wrong?
one step to reducing crime and particularly drug related crime would be to legalise all drugs.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 11:54 AM

No; but the point you made applies to society in general. I lived in London during 'the recent 'Troubles' and I know that the Irish community as a whole bore the brunt of what was happening.
There are angels and devils in all communities, and while I wouldn't want to excuse a Traveller's bad behaviour, nor would I want to draw conclusions about the community as a whole by the acts of a few individuals.
I may have misconstrued your statement; if I have I apologise; put it down to over-sensitivity on my part.
At the present time here in Ireland there is a campaign against Travellers which verges on ethnic cleansing. There are around 30,000 Travellers on the road; around three quarters of them have no legal stopping place. If they camp illegally they can, and are imprisoned and their caravans are confiscated. Many of them who have attempted to settle into houses have been prevented from doing so by irate neighbours. In this town two winters ago a family of 8 who had been made homeless by a caravan fire were prevented from accepting temporary accommodation (uncharacteristically) provided by the council by demonstrating residents who managed to terrorise them back onto the road ("If you hang around here you'll be needing the fire depatment again") in a borrowed holiday caravan (mid-December).
The official halting sites that are provided have only a stand-pipe, one toilet for the whole site and (if they are lucky) one electricity supply. Those with no site have no legal (or otherwise) access to sanitation, clean water, education, and no easy access to health care..... or any of the facilities we take for granted. As a result the average life expectancy of a Traveller is considerably less than that of a settled person.
As has been shown by earlier postings, they have no access to a legal process through which they can attempt to improve the conditions they endure and they are regular victims of racist bigotry.
In short, the conditions that are imposed on them are third-world, justified by pointing out the behaviour of the few to condemn them all.
Pat and I were recipients of Traveller hospitality for over 30 years; we counted many of them as dear friends - please excuse me if I knee-jerk occasionally.
Jim Carroll
PS Cap'n,
Nobody (in these islands anyway) has the right to take a life - that's the law.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 12:52 PM

Jim Carroll.
if a person enterd your house with force,attacked your wife,tried to rob your house,would you do nothing, or would you fight back?
Travellers should have the right,to be able to travel without being victimised,however any person whether they are a traveller or a house dweller,if they steal, kill,attack any other person should be punished by the law.,furthermore if they are a traveller they should not be punished in any different way than a house dweller.
Is there any evidence that when travellers commit a crime,That they are treated worse or better[by the legal system] than house dwelling criminals,if there is please supply the evidence.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 01:11 PM

Cap'n
To repeat:
"A couple of years ago here in Ireland a farmer found a Traveller on his land who he 'suspected' was about to rob him. He shot him in the leg, wounding him, beat him with a stick as he lay on the ground, went into his home and re-loaded and administered the coup-de-grâce, killing him.
Verdict - self-defence, punishment - none".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 01:29 PM

Sorry Cap'n,
Didn't finish.
The hypothetical case that you gave bears no relation whatever to the one I have given - the violence came entirely from the farmer.
In your imagined case - unless you could prove self-defence, if you killed the intruder you would have been guilty of murder - that is the law. Things appear to be different in the US but here killing is a crime - that is the way it should be.
Last year an unarmed young Traveller lad was stabbed to death by a knife-wielding young man - it will be interesting to see when the case comes to trial whether that fact that the alleged killer, who is at present out on bail, is a policeman's son.
Two years ago in this town a small group of Travellers came to one of the local hotels to attend a wedding - no trouble; they just kept themselves to themselves. The sergeant visited all the local bars and ordered them to close until they had left town.
Travellers don't even have to commit crimes to be treated differently; it appears to be a crime to be a Traveller.
Anybody who has had anything to do with Travellers knows they are treated differently.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 01:39 PM

you havent answered my first question?

you have undoubdtedly heard of the case of Bentley who was hanged for a crime he didnt commit.
and of Crippen who was sentenced to death for a crime he did not do.
injustices by the legal system,are meted out to all regardless of whether they are travellers or house dwellers.
what reason had the traveller to be on the farmers land?was he near his house,did he have previous convictions for burglary?was he armed,did he have in his possession anything that could be used for breaking and entering,had the farmer been burgled by travellers before?did this traveller have previous convictions?these are all relevant questions that might have had a bearing on the judges sentencing.
do you not think it possible that a judge, might have given the same verdict ,if the farmer had shot a criminal who was not a traveller but who had a long list of criminal convictions including burglary amd drug abuse.
the law is their to protect the rich,it discriminates against travellers and non travellers alike.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 02:41 PM

Cap'n;
"you havent answered my first question?"
What would I do in your hypothetical case? I quite honestly have no idea - what would you do?
I have no intention of entering yet another cul-de-sac of an argument with you, so let me ask you some questions and leave it at that.
Is it your intention that if anybody came into your house in order to commit a crime, you would to kill or maim them?
Do you feel that the law should allow you to kill or maim anybody who came into your house to commit a crime?
Do you keep a weapon handy in order to kill or maim anybody who comes into your house to commit a crime?
Do you think that property is worth more than the life or well-being of any human being?
If your answer to any of these is yes - we have nothing to say to each other - simple as that.
So far you have dealt in hypotheticals - I have given you my view, with examples which I could add to endlessly, (including my having been detained as a suspect for a crime because I was in the comany of a Traveller - neither of us were charged) of the situation as it stands.
If you claim that my description of the situation here in Ireland is incorrect, challenge it - otherwise, please deal in facts; I collect fairy stories, I don't believe them.
Jim Carroll
PS Juries give verdicts, not judges.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 03:53 PM

Idont claim anythimg ,I asked you to give more details,about the traveller who was shot by a farmer,which you havent.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 04:12 PM

Cap'n
This becomes a little tortuous - it was a cause celebré last year - don't you read the papers?
Farmer named Nolan found Traveller John Ward in his yard, shot him in the leg as he was leaving, beat him with a stick while he lay in the ground, seriously injuring him, reloaded his gun and executed him.
Self - defence - went free - what more do you want?
Unless you have anything to add, let's leave it there.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 04:29 PM

*
         

Ireland
Ward murder trial underway in Mayo
watch listen Tuesday, 12 July 2005 21:32

The trial has begun at a sitting of the Central Criminal Court in Castlebar of a 61-year-old farmer who is charged with the murder of a member of the Traveller community near the village of Cross in Co Mayo last year.

Padraig Nally has pleaded not guilty to the murder of John Ward, 42, a father of 11 from Carrowbrowne, Co Galway on 14 October 2004.

At the opening of this morning's trial, Mr Justice Paul Carney said it was the first time since the foundation of the State that the Central Criminal Court had sat in Mayo.
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Mr Justice Carney said the Central Criminal Court now had a capacity to have rapid trials locally when it appeared appropriate to do so.

Opening the prosecution case, Senior Counsel Paul O Higgins said there would be evidence that Mr Nally had been working on his 65-acre farm at Funshinaugh on 14 October last and came back to his farmhouse at about 2pm.

He became aware of a car outside and when he went out he found Tom Ward, a Traveller, in the car. Tom Ward is a son of John Ward.

Mr O Higgins said Mr Nally's mind at the time appeared to be focussed in a very significant way on burglaries which he believed had been committed in the area by members of the Traveller community.

He himself had had a chainsaw stolen in February 2004.

He asked Tom Ward where the person who was with him was and he was told he was around the back.

At this point Mr Nally went to a shed, took a single barrel shotgun and went to the back of his house where he found John Ward. He approached him and fired a shot which caused a significant wound to Mr Ward's hip and hand.

Subsequently an encounter took place in which John Ward was given a heavy beating and sustained serious injuries, the court was told.

It heard that the State Pathologist would be giving evidence of this.

Mr Nally had told gardaí he had hit John Ward on the head with a stick. At this point Tom Ward drove away from the scene.

The prosecution argues that Mr Nally then went back to the shed and collected more cartridges and as John Ward attempted to flee from the scene, Mr Nally followed him and shot him again at a distance of four or five yards.

John Ward was fatally wounded as the shot went through his left arm and lung and penetrated his heart. He appeared to have died almost instantly.

Mr Nally then got into his car and drove to a neighbour and contacted the gardaí, the court was told
Jim Carroll,the farmers name was not Nolan.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 05:02 PM

The death of Hattie Carroll,is an example of a well connected man getting away with a murder,Hattie Carroll was not a traveller but was black.
William Zantzinger was never convicted.
that is the point I am trying to make,it is not just travellers that are discriminated against.
here is more on the Nally prosecution.acts of the Case and First Trial

Nally arrived at his farmhouse on the afternoon of October 14, 2004 when he saw a car parked beside an overgrown lane next to his house with a man sitting in the driver's seat. The man was Ward's son, Tom. Tom Ward testified that he and his father used to buy old cars, fix them up and sell them. He said that morning he went with his father to the hospital where he was a daycare patient. He said they later took a spin down by Mr Nally's house, his father spotted an old car, they reversed into the drive and then John Ward went to knock on the door to see if the owner was in. He said Nally approached the car saying: "Who's gone in there?" Tom Ward maintained that he told him his father was gone in to see about the car. According to Tom Ward, Nally replied: "He won't be coming out alive."

Nally got a gun from the shed and, as he confronted him at the back door, shot Ward in the side. Nally then beat Ward repeatedly with a stick. As Ward was trying to leave the property, Nally went back to the shed, reloaded his shotgun, went back to Nally, and fired a second, fatal, shot at Ward.

Garda sergeant James Carroll, one of the first officers on the scene, told the court there was no forensic evidence to show that Ward had been in Nally's house.

During the first trial, the court heard that Nally had become increasingly agitated and worried that his property would be targeted by local thieves as a number of farms in the area had recently been burgled. His own home had been broken into in 2003 and a chainsaw stolen from one of his sheds in February 2004. Friends and neighbours noted Nally had become preoccupied with looking after his farm and terrified that the robbers would return.

Nally pleaded not guilty to murder and manslaughter charges. He was acquitted of murder, but convicted of manslaughter. The judge, Mr Justice Paul Carney, refused to allow the jury to consider a full defence argument of self-defence.

Sentencing Nally to six years for the manslaughter conviction, Mr Justice Paul Carney said: "This is undoubtedly the most socially divisive case I have had to try. It is also the most difficult one in which I have had to impose sentence." [1]

[edit] Appeal and Conviction Quashed

Nally was refused leave to appeal by the Central Criminal Court against his conviction and six-year jail sentence.

The case was then appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeal. Nally's lawyers had argued at his appeal that the trial judge had erred in law by not allowing the jury to consider a defence of full self-defence and by not allowing it to find Nally not guilty. He had directed that the jury had to find Nally guilty of murder or guilty of manslaughter, and ruled that an acquittal verdict based on the evidence would be perverse.

In October 2006, the Court of Criminal Appeal quashed Padraig Nally's conviction for manslaughter and ordered a retrial. The Court said that the jury should not have been denied the opportunity to return a verdict of not guilty, even if such a verdict may have flown in the face of the evidence.

[edit] Retrial

Padraig Nally's retrial took place in December 2006. Similar evidence was submitted to the court, including evidence of Ward's character and previous convictions and both Nally's and Ward's mental states on the day in question.

The jury of eight men and four women acquitted Nally of manslaughter and he walked free.

[edit] Controversy

The Padraig Nally case has been enormously divisive in Ireland, with many people supporting Padraig Nally and his actions to defend the perceived risk to his person and property, and other people maintaining that the his actions were far in excess of what was necessary to successfully maintain a defence of self defence.

In addition, the travelling community make the claim that, had Nally been a member of the travelling community and Ward been a member of the settled community, a different verdict may have been returned. Adding to the controversy, Tom Warde had 11 previous convictions including aggravated assault on a member of the Gardaí

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturd
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 02:45 AM

Cap'n,
Once again you have managed to bury a thread (in this case started to pass on a piece of information) in irrelevant garbage: I must take a portion of the blame for this for humouring you (for the last time).
In case people have forgotten, I'll put up the press release.

Prizewinning Clare broadcaster Paula Carroll has recently completed three programmes on Irish Traveller singers recorded, mainly in London, between 1973 and 2003 by Pat Mackenzie and Jim Carroll.
The first, entitled 'Song Hunting', which covers the early period of the project, is to be broadcast on 23rd August at 3.30pm and includes 'Pop's' Johnny Connors, Bill Cassidy and Andy Cash, all from Co. Wexford.
Programme two, ' Remembering The Pictures', is devoted to Michael 'Mikeen' McCarthy from Cahersiveen in Kerry, singer, storyteller, ballad seller, tinsmith, horse-dealer... etc. is on Saturday 30th August.
The final programme in the series, 'The Right Way To Do It', concentrates mainly on the blind Tipperary singer Mary Delaney and her brother Paddy Reilly. This will be broadcast on 6th September.
These are to be broadcast on RTE's Lyric FM under the general title 'Come All You Loyal Travellers.

We got our first chance to listen to the programmes last night and were absolutely delighted - Paula (no relation) has done a magnificent job and the fact that she is a fine singer herself has had a tremendous input into her production.

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 04:54 AM

Jim,I believe Matt Keen was right about you.
you raised a subject[the murder of Ward].
this forum,is an international forum,many people would not be familiar with this trial,I therefore provided[from the net] as much information as possible,so that people from the USA , Australia etc,might get an insight in to the subject you raised[the death of the traveller Mr Ward].
If you think the death of a traveller is irrelevant garbage ,you would be better not to have raised the subject,and to at least have got the name of the farmer right.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: InOBU
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 11:02 PM

Dear Captain Birdseye:
Let's look back to where this thread got away from the music. A fellow posted a link to a site, where there were bigoted references to Travellers.
Now, I would not be too hard on Jim for possibly not getting the fellow's name right... I often testify in cases about "Gypsy" rights. Before I fact check, study, prepare. However, here, this is more like a chat over a pint among friends, friends who do not always agree. Now, even I, who is acknowleged by courts as an expert on the discrimination against "Gypsies" in such a conversation might make a slight error, a wrong name... but it is often the refrain of the dominant culture, that the oppressed are not alone in their oppression. Yes, even in the USA, White, Middle Class folks, might have their rights trod upon. However, this does not mean there is no such thing as oppression, discrimination and racialism.
I expect you are a well meaning and good fellow. I also think, if you walked a few miles in a Traveller's shoes... you might begin to understand our fustration.
In the Ireland I knew... oh many years ago... decades ago... folks often crossed other people's land with an expectation of hospitality. However, even then, Travellers expected something else. A few years back, I returned to Ireland to deliver a paper on Irish Travellers in the USA... and found rocks placed at the margins of roads, to keep Travellers from stopping... I found a very different place... bad as it once was, the halting sites were... different. Many gone... some really good, a real partnership between the settled folks and Travellers, but some were really bad... and the common land... almost gone.
Let's not argue over the little things. I hope some day, I can, or Jim might, take you to meet folks... walk with folks... see the world from the downside up... because I really do thing you might see things differently. I still trust in most people's best intentions.
One reason we get mixed up on the details... is that there are so many stories, so many Travellers killed, beaten, run off. No people should be held to account for the actions of others of their ilk. Where would settled people be? What wars have Travellers started? What genocides have Travellers committed? What famines have Travellers used for land clearence? Those who have bitten back at the settled community have taken a flea bite compaired to the wrongs committed against them.
But, dear friend Captain, let's pray for a time when folks stop all wrongs against each other... go joyfully through the world, greeting that of God in all we meet... that is so much more a goal then proving wrong against each other.
Listen to the radio show, if it can reach you... I wish I could, (and thanks on that particular point, Jim ... )
Let's both, Country Folk and Traveller pray for a better day.
Baxt hai sastimos
Lor

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 04:18 AM

good points.
about two years ago,I was picking up some wood in a cemetry,when two fellows,called me over to the road.
they were two travellers[leafletting for tarmacadaming],and they said to me there is an old guy in a house just down at the cross and we think he needs a doctor.
so anyway I go down,and this guy is adamant he doesnt need help[but clearly is ill]so I call the district nurse,anyway[it later transpires] the guy has apparently had a stroke.
anyway those two travellers saved this guys life,he was a vulnerable weak old man,who they could have taken advantage of.,but they didnt.in fact they did the opposite.
   please read my earlier posts,You seem to have got the wrong impression of my views.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: Seán Báite
Date: 22 Aug 08 - 05:27 AM

Was appalled myself by an article I read about the 2 girls drowned in Naples and the neo-fascistic approach to Rom being taken by Berlusconi's shower of eejits - but would rather talk about the music than continue banging our heads together in a sterile regurgitating of positions none of us are going to change.

For those not in Ireland, RTÉ Lyric FM has its site here :
rté Lyric FM homepage
Programmes can be listened to live anywhere in the world using the 'Listen Live' link. The first of Jim's programme's is on at
15:30 GMT (in Dublin as in Greenwich) tomorrow, and here is the pitch from Lyric's schedule :
"Come All You Loyal Travellers
Paula Carroll explores folk songs gathered by Jim Carroll and Pat Mackenzie from Irish Travellers on the outskirts of London. 1: Song-Hunting. The discovery of the song heritage."

A bit of a disclaimer though - last time I tried to listen to an RTÉ programme (though not live) it was not possible - I only got a message stating the service was off for the duration of the Olympics - some sort of broadcast rights issues..
A bit absurd, as I don't think we'll be getting any exclusive interviews with the Brazilian beach volleyball captain during Jim's programme :->
I'm not sure if this also applies to the live stream - I only usually listen to differed shows.
On a side point Jim - is there any chance the programmes will be available 'differed' (as with Grace Notes and The Rolling Wave) or is it up to you ? Not too sure I'll be beside the PC at 3-30 tomorrow...and would like to listen to all 3 shows at my leisure

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 08 - 11:01 AM

excellent programme,thankyou Jim andPat.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM

refresh,another programme today 3 30 pm,lyric fm.

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:39 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Irish Travellers in London on Lyric FM -Saturdays
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:02 PM

another good programme.