BS: Stucco question

Subject: BS: Stucco question
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:06 PM

I have been inspired by the gutter thread in hopes that someone can answer my stucco question.

I recently made an offer on a retirement home which is about 70 years old with stucco siding. I did notice that there were large, vertical, exterior cracks at the corners of the windows and that in the corner of the house, the stucco was deteriorating near the foundation. This was repaired and painted but I have no way of knowing how long rain was able to penetrate the stucco. There are no interior cracks.

When I had it inspected, the report said I should seek further consultation. Unfortunately, that requires a building envelope specialist which is very costly and probably wouldn't be able to tell me anything anyway. Its too dry to detect any moisture and I'm sure the owners would not like holes drilled in the stucco.

I'm really not sure what to do. I really love this house and its in a very special location. I may have to remove the stucco entirely, remove whatever rot I might find and put new siding on (Hardiplank or something). The house is one storey and only 900 sq'. How much do you think this will cost in materials and labour?

Without anything specific, it will be very difficult to negotiate a lower price. I have looked at about 60 houses so I know this is the one I want.

What shoud I do???

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:39 PM

One option: require an inspection for moisture within the stucco layer. The seller should pay for it as part of the sale. It can be dne with a very small hole, easily patched, if it is done in the right place. Talk to someone who really knows stucco, though.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Bert
Date: 03 Sep 08 - 11:42 PM

1. Where are you?
2. Large cracks could also mean structural or foundation problems.
3. Poke a long thin screwdriver through the cracks and into the wooden framing to feel if there is any rot.
4. Do the same where the stucco is deteriorating near the foundation.
5. Brush away the dirt in the same area and see what there is to see of the foundation.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:25 AM

Portland Cement Association site on Stucco, "the common term for portland cement plaster, is a popular exterior finish for buildings. It provides an economical hard surface that is rot, rust, and fire resistant, which can be colored and finished in a wide range of textures to adorn any architectural style." This site includes suppliers and masons, etc.

DoItYourself.com on stucco.

FAQs from one brand called LaHabra.

I grew up in a stucco house in Everett, Washington. I seem to recall patches had to be repaired every so often. Our stucco house was painted (I included this FAQ because it discusses painting stucco, or at least, this type of stucco).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 10:47 AM

Do al the windows have cracks, d???

If so, this is probably a result of water collecting on the sill plates and dripping slowly down the stucco... What condition are the sills in??? They may also have water damage... This would indicate the high probability that there is some structiral damage in the framing to the jacks on either side of the window as well as the framing undeer the window... In that case, the stucco would have to be removed, the window framing rebuilt and the wire mesh reinstalled and stucco reapplied... Very costly...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:22 PM

Vertical cracks and none inside do not indicate structural failure.

Ummm... I can't recall... where are you located? Seems to me you are in southern Ontario... dunno why I think that, but I do... ????

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: mg
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:43 PM

She is in PNW. I had a stucco house, would never have another one. The stucco itself is fine I believe..but it can rot whatever is underneath, usually wood. I would presume there is extensive rot and go from there. DOn't buy unless you know. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:52 PM

PNW... well, that solves it then. Only one more question... what does PNW stand for?

Unless you are in a steady warm climate, stucco sucks. I have inspected same here in Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada, and it is a nightmare because of our climate. Depends where you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Amos
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 03:55 PM

Pacific North West.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: gnu
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM

So... freeze/thaw? Bad stucco environment. High maintenance.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: mg
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM

rain, drizzle, Oregon mist, cats and dogs, showers, fog, sleet. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Greg B
Date: 04 Sep 08 - 09:24 PM

Stucco seems to work fine--- properly applied in a place that NEVER
freezes. Ultimately, it's the same stuff that they made "adobe"
structures out of in the 18th century.

If it's cracked, hell, just assume that it's "gone" and that the
whole lot will have to be stripped off and some other form of
siding installed. There are more modern stuccos that are more
resistant to weather, but however you calculate it, this stuff
has probably failed.

Remember, YOU are the buyer in a "buyer's market." Vertical
cracks equal "poor condition."

My parents live in a house that my grandfather built in 1941
in Ventura, California. (They moved in on Thanksgiving of
that year--- Pearl Harbor was days away. Imagine!)

The original stucco lasted in that temperate climate until
around 1998. It was re-coated with a "modern" material then,
and it failed within a few years. They had to have the old
"new" stuff removed and the work re-done several years ago.
We'll see how that works out.

In the current market, I would just assume the worst and be
willing to walk away if the seller won't suck it up and deal
with the reality that the place needs some other exterior
treatment.

And I'd rule out any kind of stucco if you're in a climate
where it freezes more than once a year.

Now, then, fiber-cement siding--- that's the real stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM

I'm in British Columbia where it does freeze in the Winter. I can't be poking around with a screw driver (I don't own this house, yet) and its so dry at this time of year, no moisture would be detected.

I have managed to get the sellers to reduce the price by over 80,000.00 so I'm going to go ahead and close the deal. I know I'm in for lots of work but its worth the effort.

At this point, I asked the stucco repair guy how much for flashings around the windows and a new coat of stucco and he said under $7000.00. I will probably have the stucco removed and replace it with Hardiboard. At any rate, with the price reduction, I'll be able to have the work done.

The only way I can afford a place with any charm is to fix it up.

Who knows how much rot I'll find.

The sound of the river, the apple trees, the edge grain fir floors and those big Mexican tiles make it worth saving. The floor plan is wonderful and no interior renos are necessary.

Thanks for you advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: mg
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:42 PM

Maybe BC has different stucco though. Years ago I remember huge numbers of stucco houses..with broken beer bottles stuck in the stucco as an artistic effect..or not...it was odd to my American eyes. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: gnu
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:41 PM

I don't expect you will find much rot, but who knows? Fact is, if there was a lot of rot, a moisture meter under the windows on the inside would detect moisture fluctuations, even after a month of hot and dry weather. The fact that you don't see any cracks or stains on the inside leads me to the "not much rot" statement.

Besides, vertical cracks will drain moisture quickly and the envelope may well be designed and installed to accomodate such. Some are. Wish I was there to have a boo at it for you.... even tho, sometimes, ya just can't tell without destructive investigation.

Good luck darlin.

Hehehe... I used to inspect buildings, including residential housing, for buyers. The house I am in now, I did not inspect. It was next to me mum's house (very well built) and the old girl that owned it since I was a wee lad next door sold it to me for a great price when I told her I wanted it so me mum could stay in her own home for "a few extra years". Since then, what a fuckin mess! The plumbing, the electrical, the roofing, the insulation... the layout! I have never seen a house only 50 yeras old so poorly layed out and constructed. Irony? Perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Bee
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM

Aw, gnu, and dianavan too, most of us buy houses for reasons other than how good a shape they're in. Ours has cheap windows, a couple humps in the floor, the kitchen and bathrooms are awful... but it gets tons of light in this gloomy climate, it's on a lovely little lake and secluded nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:15 PM

I have stucco on my house here in Alberta, and there are many of them here, it is a great favorite. My stucco is 60 years old and has been repointed (refinished by a stucco company) once. I would have nothing else (can't afford brick or stone except as trim).

Re-pointing is much better than painting, which has to be redone every few years.

Temperatures here get to 30 below in winter and 85F in summer.

Rotting here is seldom a problem, since the climate is semi-arid. The main place to watch here is roofing- if water gets between the shingles and the wood of the roof. The wood can deteriorate if re-roofing is delayed too long.

Talk to a couple of stucco company workmen, they can diagnose problems. Make sure that the workmen are licensed by the province and not fly-by-night handymen.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:23 PM

Well, if the seller's reduced the house by 80 grand then it's a fair assumption that they know that it has some serious problems but, hey... Like you said, you know that you are in for some repairs...

Heck, I'm rebovating a 200 year old hotel and it had lots of structural problems but that's part of the reward down the road...

Be prepared to reframe each window... Might as well just get it into yer thinking now so it won't come a shock down the road... Your stucco guy can probably tell which ones are the worst and maybe you can take them on in phases... That's the only way to look at big projects without going mad...

My motto when it comes to these projects is "Life is a cinch, inch by inch..."

Congrates, d, on yer new home...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:55 AM

I'm not aware of too many houses in Australia with stucco, unless it was over brick walls.

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:44 AM

This time, Amos got one right!..Make sure the cracks are not due to structural damage, like shifting on the foundation, or settling. This can, and should be, and required by law,(depending on where you live) be done, by inspection, at the expense of the owner. Most all realtors have a form that is filled out, by the owner called a 'Disclosure Form', where the seller, has to disclose any known things, wrong with the house, before the deal is closed. You can make an offer to buy, contingent on the defects being corrected, at the owners expense, during the time in escrow. You can also have and inspection done, at you own expense, usually after a deposit has been made, in the time of escrow, so you can withdraw your offer, and have your offer refunded, without penalty, should they find something wrong, OR if they find something wrong, and the two of you do NOT come to an agreement, on fixing it! Repairs are normally done at the sellers expense, before the closing of escrow. Being as these are hard times for sellers, you have an advantage. The money to be used for the repairs,can be taken out of the purchase price, but from their (the sellers)end...unless you negotiate differently. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Stucco question
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:19 PM

Well, I put my final offer in today.

I hope it covers the cost of repairs.

I had an inspection, a consultation and an appraisal.

They all pointed to the possibility of future problems but the fact is, at this point the house is considered to be 'sound' as there is no structural damage... yet.