BS: Gas Gouging

Subject: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:27 PM

With elections comming up in Canada and the USA the politicians are refraining from kissing big oil executive's arses and some are even admitting that we are being ripped. However so far they are doing nothing to stop it except blowing steam. Crude has dropped 40% over recent weeks but gas and diesel have dropped much less. The reason "big oil" gives is that it takes time for the crude to work through the system. When a storm hits Texas prices jump to record levels almost instantly. Nothing delayed while it works through the system there! In Quebec recently the oil executives were fined about 2 million for price fixing but there was no followup anywhere else.
We are being robbed !!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Barry Finn
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:50 PM

When the price for a barrel goes up it seems that it's reflected in the daily prices at the pumps which rise accordingly but the oppisite never holds true,,,,, can't figure that one out yet.


Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Beer
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:58 PM

We have always had Hurricanes. That is in the Gulf of Mexico and surrounding areas. But I don't remember that in the past the gas at the pumps would rise and extra say ten cents a liter/gallon or whatever because of it. Why now?
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 12:15 AM

adrien ... "Why now?"

Why not .... whatta we gonna do about it? Do we really expect the mainstream politicans to do something about it?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: GUEST,A Regular
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:36 AM

Remember the places that gouge and tell the managers after the prices return to normal that you will no longer be doing business with them and why you won't. Period. Then, DON'T!

We went through somethingsimilar when oil exploration was booming and the town increased in population by about 30% for eight months.

I am with an emergency services department. mechanics to whom we'd taken our response vehicles were telling us to wait for two or three days to get even minor repairs effected because some of the big players in gas exploration just didn't care what they were charged for repairs and so they were given preference.

Well, the tables are turned back to normal. Two businesses that had put us on the 'you'll have to wait until we get the important customers out of the way' have called asking why we no longer go to them. We tell them why--and why we won't be back until they no longer own the business. They f%%k you now, f%%k 'em back next week or next month or next year. But don't let it ride. Sooner or later they'll learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:09 AM

For the first time in what seems like years, in the UK, diesel fuel at the pumps is more expensive than petrol... which in turn has been dropping gently for a couple of weeks. What was £1.19 per litre (about $2.15) last month is now 10p less.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 08:56 AM

Well, in Canada we can thank Brian Mulrony for instigating "free trade" and Jean Cretien for embracing the so called "global economy". Big international companies now don't answer to any governing body. They corrupt the concept of the law of supply and demand by working in lock step to cheat us all! As an example in Nova Scotia there used to be three refineries but now there is only one (Esso/Exon). In New Brunswick there is one (Irving). All other brands use either Esso or Irving gas. There is no regulation of what these companies charge each other or their wholesale/distibuters for their product. The respective governments try to regulate the pump price but it doesn't work because the pump markup is small. Small independant brands pay the full refinery price and their source of supply is very limited. Meanwhile Esso will supply gas to so called competitors such as Shell on a volume trade litre for litre with a Shell refinery somewhere else in Canada or North America. What has happened now is the price is driven up to what the refiners agree to and smaller brands can't undersell them. If the pump price is below the refinery price they would lose money so the provincial government allows the regulated price to increase. Of course this means that the likes of Shell and Esso also increase the pump price even though they have not had (except on paper) any cost increase. This is how the law of "Supply and Demand" is being replaced with the law of "Gouge and Screw"!

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 09:44 AM

I wonder what the business folks will do with the profit from the gas they bought/produced at a lower price?

A good Christmas present for big oil and speculators indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 12:47 PM

One word, Gouging!


NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. oil prices dropped $2 to a six-month low below $100 a barrel on Sunday as dealers bet on a swift recovery of the nation's energy production after Hurricane Ike.

The losses add to a steady downtrend since mid-July's peak of over $147 a barrel amid mounting evidence that high energy costs and a weakening economy are cutting deeply into fuel consumption.

Oil prices fell $1.88 to $99.30 a barrel by 1600 GMT (midday eastern time) after falling as low as $99.12 -- the lowest since March 20.

The New York Mercantile Exchange opened a special energy trading session on Sunday due to increased trader interest about Hurricane Ike, which slammed into the Houston energy hub Saturday leaving a quarter of U.S. oil and refined fuel production idled and millions without power.

Early reports from emergency officials and oil companies indicated little or no severe damage to infrastructure -- signaling a possible quick recovery to production in the coming days.

"The oil market is selling off because the early indications show Ike didn't do as much damage as feared," said Chris Jarvis, senior analyst at Caprock Risk Management. "That said, this sell-off could prove to be a bit premature, since it could be a while before things get back to normal."

The International Energy Agency said it was monitoring U.S. energy supplies in Ike's wake to see if a release of emergency stockpiles is required. The U.S. government has eased environmental gasoline regulations and has offered crude oil loans to refiners having trouble procuring shipments.

Even as oil prices fell Sunday, gasoline prices at the U.S. pumps shot up more than six cents to nearly $3.80 a gallon, adding to a five cent increase on Sunday, according to AAA's daily survey of more than 100,000 service stations.

"It may not be possible for us -- and other manufacturers -- to maintain normal supplies in the coming days," Chevron Corp (CVX.N) said in a statement.

(Reporting by Richard Valdmanis; Editing by Andre Grenon)

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:09 PM

Actually, the NY spot price closed Friday at $95.05 and will stay there until Monday.

The US government has not approved the building of a single new refinery since we elected Jimmy Carter over 30 years ago. The old ones are much less efficient and dangerous than new ones would have been, and we are losing the competetion to non-US companies. We cannot keep up with the demand caused by a huge population surge.

Also, would some people make up their minds on this subject. One group says that $3.60 gas is outrageous and should be raised to the European figure of nearly $10.00 to cut our wasteful overuse. Others say it is outrageous to charge that much ($3.60) and it just adds excess profit to big bad oil companies and hurts the poor most. Looks like an addiction to complaining.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 01:45 PM

Rest easy folks, Bush said he is going to bring the full weight of the federal government to bear on price gougers. HAHAHA

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:06 PM

There is a good debate to be had on conservation. There is no shortage of blame for past energy policy errors on many fronts.

The best way to encourage energy conservation is much more complex than industry increasing the price of gas. (On the Global front, there is certainly demand for oil created by changes in the industrial base (i.e. China).

A question today is who is filling their pockets when oil prices decline and fuel prices increase?

I doubt if is taxpayers, as is the case in much of Europe where gas taxes are very much higher.


There are also places in the world where gas is far under a dollar (ie. pennies per gallon in Venezuala amnd many Middle East countries)

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:25 PM

OK, let's use some common sense and a little arithmatic.

Just before the 4th of July weekend this year, crude oil hit an all-time high, during the trading day, of $147 per barrel. Now, there are only 42 US gallons of crude oil per barrel, which makes the cost to an independant refinery $3.50 per gallon. I bought gasoline (petrol) last week for $3.54.

Even more fun is that oil is in a foreign country and cost does not include transportation, refining costs, various taxes, distribution costs and dealer mark-up. Anybody see that "price gouging" may not be what we have here?                                                         

{numbers look more reasonable with the $95.05 spot price as it is today, about $2.26 per gallon for raw crude oil}

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM

Not sure that youe example shows much about the inner working of the oil sector.


Common sense tells me that someeone is making money when the price of oil goes down and the price of gas goes up.

Likely it is not the refinery folks (who ever they are), nor the guy who operates the service station. But, common sense follows that profits were made on existing inventories. It simply seems like gouging and profiteering by someone to me.

It is not uncommon (in vertically integrated sectors) to shopw loss in one sector, and experience a profit in a less visable area.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: pdq
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 03:00 PM

"...common sense follows that profits were made on existing inventories..."

Ah, but for a while, the same companies were paying much more for crude oil than they were selling the finished product for. The companies even things out so that they show a profit of at least 7%, hopefully close to 10%, at the end of the year. This is fair, especially since the oil business requires extremely high investments for the money returned. Lots of very hard and dangerous work there, also.

Not trying to argumentative, but I see no sins being committed here. The free market oil companies control less the 10% of the oil produced, state-owned oil as Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, mostly in OPEC, control price of crude and therefore the price of oil, gasoline, diesel, plastics, paint etc (ad nauseum).

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 03:04 PM

What is interesting is the sharper jump in gas prices throughout Canada at the same time, Sharper rises, even in areas with excess refining capacity and sources from outside of the USA and regardless of inventories.



http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 03:07 PM

A good point.

So much for free market "big oil" company's total control of much of what is an essential resource. Seems like a licence to print money to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: kendall
Date: 14 Sep 08 - 05:07 PM

When Bush was selected president 8 years ago, gas was $1.50 a gallon. The King of Arabia has said that the increase is due to our money losing its value to the point where they prefer the Euro in payment.
Our dollar is slipping in value due to deficit spending.
Ok, Doug, Teribus etc, spin this.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 07:58 AM

Once everybody figures it all out ... just let me know what you're going to be dong about it.


biLLhow

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:25 AM

During the refinery blockades in the UK, early 200s, a local garage put its prices up to £2.00 the litre. (£11.00 the Imperial gallon). Nothing unlawful about this, you understand, because petrol was scarce.

Six months after, that garage was up for sale, the proprietor filed for bankruptcy, and there is now a Tesco express shop on that site.

What goes around, comes around . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:40 AM

SOS
Support our Success

We here at the Big Oil want to let you know that despite each hurricaine to hit the US this year the price of a barrel of oil has gone down. It is now $95.79

The price at the pump will continue to surge since refining capabilities are going to slow down.

Support our surge at the pump and elect John McCaina & Sarah lain to ensure availability of gas in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: MaineDog
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:14 PM

We are told that gas prices are going up because oil production facilities have been wrecked by IKE.

However, NPR let the truth slip the other day. They said that TEN oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico were damaged. TEN out of over 3000. (So maybe they were the ones that weren't being taken care of because they weren't producing?) Anyway, seems to me like about 1/3 of 1% of the rigs were damaged.   This should amount to about 1 cent per gallon or less.

Now there's news that oil company executives are actually (literally, sexually ) in bed with regulatory personnel (read corporate whores)
and that billions of dollars of oil leasing fees have not been collected because of this overly cozy arrangement. Now I understand that oil company executives like to get laid just like anyone else, and that we should not be jealous of their success in this area, but:

I still think we are being ripped off.

MD

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Peace
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 08:19 PM

The hookers are doin' jus' fine though . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:51 PM

Jamie Muir is the man in charge of gas regulation in Nova Scotia. He put the price up 13 cents a litre the other day and still has not put it down. Anyone wanting to thank him can do so here:
Jamie Muir

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 06:55 PM

Would he thinik 'FUCK YOU' is thanks?

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 11:38 PM

Well Bruce I am afraid that the man is too stupid to understand your wise council but please pass on to him your encouragement in any case!

Subject: RE: BS: Gas Gouging
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:37 AM

"We are told that gas prices are going up because oil production facilities have been wrecked by IKE.

However, NPR let the truth slip the other day. They said that TEN oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico were damaged. TEN out of over 3000. (So maybe they were the ones that weren't being taken care of because they weren't producing?) Anyway, seems to me like about 1/3 of 1% of the rigs were damaged." - MaineDog

Did the same NPR tell you what the production shutdowns in anticipation of damage were MaineDog? Any idea what shutting down an oil production pipeline involves and the work required to put it back in operation? Did NPR explain anything about loss of refining capacity while people had been evacuated? Any idea of the work involved in getting a refinery back on line?