BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain

Subject: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Beer
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:32 PM

Well as a Canadian citizen I guess I can't do that. But then if I had dual citizenship could I?

I don't contribute much in the area of politics but it doesn't mean I don't read what is being written. In fact I try to keep on top of what mudcat members are voicing their opinion about.

But here is something I am picking up on.

1) I have seen no threads started in favor on Harper.
2) Nor have I seen any for McCain.
3) Are all Mudcatters that for Obama?
4) If not, and I'm sure not all are. Why haven't the Rep. members started a thread?
5) I haven't seen any threads started in favor of Harper as well.

Where I live I don't even have a Liberal candidate.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Amos
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:52 PM

The Republican members of this community are in the trenches with hardhats on. Best they can do is lob a few gas grenades now and then.


A

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:56 PM

Harper, well, the Conservative candidate in my district, will post his usual win.

I no longer vote in the States since I became a Canadian, but I will be rooting for McCain and Palin. My kind of people!

Liberals are allowed into the neighborhood (being a democratic country, one can't legally keep them out) but conversations mostly are limited to a polite stare.

As you have noted, the Obamiacs at Mudcat are a noisy bunch of lefties. To borrow a phrase from the British, their guitar strings are 'in a twist.'

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Beer
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 10:56 PM

Amos get ready because after saying that some will be thrown.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:10 PM

Palin's nomination drew out the Republicans for a while. Before they got to know what she was like.

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:10 PM

Yeah, the Republicans will soon go over the top. to victory.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:12 PM

The Dems are still trying to put something into that empty suit called Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:15 PM

Well Adrien, assuming that all is "tongue in cheek" I could start a thread in favour of Harper "Being condemmed to continue kissing Bush's arse for the rest of his life!" As for the McCain's they make great french fries but be careful of Lysteria in the Maple Leaf meat. LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Beer
Date: 15 Sep 08 - 11:21 PM

Oh Sandy please let me catch my breath. Thank you for the laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM

Lysistrata in the meat loaf? Harper who?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: PoppaGator
Date: 16 Sep 08 - 09:46 PM

There may be comparativel few threads about McCain, but his supporters have stayed pretty busy offering minority (negative) opinions in discussions about Obama.

I'm sure you've noticed, however, that there have been MORE than enough threads begun on the topic of McCain's running mate.

Things are definitely crazy...

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:41 PM

"...that empty suit called Obama"

So sorry to hear about your total mental breakdown. That's the only reason somebody who has done such excellent work regarding folk songs could be so abysmally and aggressively ignorant on US politics--yet feel compelled to run off at the mouth on the topic anyway.

But since you are obviously too feeble to do your own research on Obama, and being the generous soul that I am, I will help you.

Just to pick two significant topics:

Health plans:

WSJ: 16 Sept 2008:

"Republican presidential candidate John McCain's plan would make only a small dent in the ranks of the uninsured, at best covering about five million more people..."   "Democratic nominee Barack Obama would cover more people--eventually adding about 34 million..."

"Senator Obama would give consumers more options, but he would increase federal regulations".

"He would create a new government-run plan, as well as an "exchange", in which private companies would offer insurance to compete with the government plan. New rules would require that insurance companies provide coverage to everyone, at consistent prices, even those with existing ailments. Parents would be required to cover their children and large employers would be required to cover their workers or pay a fine."

'"Sen. McCain would reduce both state and federal regulations and give consumers more choices about where to buy health insurance."

"Because people could buy insurance on their own, some would leave the employer-sponsored system, especially young and healthy people who can get a better deal on their own. Older, sicker, people are likely to face problems buying coverage".


There's more, but perhaps when you recover your mental faculties, you will be able to do some research yourself.



Taxes:

WSJ 9 Sept 2008:

"Sen Obama said in his speech: "I will cut taxes--cut taxes--for 95% of all working families.." Sen. Obama's middle-class tax cut would take the form of a tax credit of as much as $1,000 per family, which his campaign says would eliminate income taxes for 10 million Americans."

"To pay for what amounts to a tax cut on top of the existing Bush tax cut for middle-income families, Sen. Obama would raise taxes on households earning more than $250,000, eliminate some corporate tax breaks, and raise capital-gains taxes. He'd also keep the alternative minimum tax in place for many taxpayers."

"Sen, McCain, meanwhile, wants to make all the Bush tax cuts permanent, while cutting the corporate tax rate and phasing out the alternative minimum tax."

Again, there's more, but I suspect you will soon be able to actually do some work.




Good thing you can't vote in the US election--we actually have enough wilfully ignorant voters already.

But I'm sure we'd all like to hear your ideas as to why the Wall St. Journal is an organ of the Democratic party. Please feel free to use your lively imagination in explaining this. I'm sure, based on your political flights of fancy-- and your somewhat tenuous grip on reality-- that we can expect something creative from you.

Both articles, by the way were written by WSJ staff, not a guest columnist.

Looking forward to your next delightful contribution.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: kendall
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 09:49 PM

I wonder what would happen to the women vote if the word got around about McCain's obscene name he gave his wife?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:03 PM

Oh, we get all that platform nonsense here, CNN and their stable of Obamiacs are on our cable systems too.

Latest figures show that it is going to be a tight race; I expect McCain-Palin will be the eventual victors.

Neither pair of candidates, however, is going to get their way; Congress will make many compromises necessary and platforms get dumped.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 11:48 PM

Q,

I have a bet with PDQ on this election (in the US). You got a CD ya wanna bet on McCain? I got one I want to bet on Obama. Well?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: DougR
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:40 AM

Hard hats, Amos? Well, we will see in November who is wearing the hard hats won't we?

I think, beer, that you have a good Prime Minister in Harper.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:21 AM

"platform nonsense"--So you prefer to wallow in your ignorance--and cast singularly specious aspersions--"empty suit".   Sorry, the only empty suit appears to be yours--and possibly an empty head, too. And it appears you plan to keep it that way. No surprise there.

I have just given proof, that, far from an "empty suit", Obama and his team have thought issues through--and seem to have better solutions than McCain.

Unless of course you oppose Obama for more despicable reasons. After all, you have been relentlessly negative on him long before most of his positions were known. You have vastly preferred white politicians, first Hillary, and now McCain. You have distorted Obama's positions constantly--when not denying, as above, that he has any positions.

Actually, the theory that you have had a total mental breakdown is the more charitable interpretation of your attitude.

And your dismissal of "Obamamaniacs" is, like the rest of your "reasoning", just one more smear.   I insist on evidence and logic--from any part of the political spectrum--witness my push for evidence in the Scheunemann case-where no evidence has ever been produced.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM

Even when you're not tryin' y'all take yoreselves too serious.

Obama has going for him that he ran a great campaign against Hillary, something that was far harder than the one he's waging now. He showed class, has the best, by far, command of the language of any of the candidates, gave some very good speeches and showed more common sense about money matters than any of the other major candidates of either party, particularly when he refused to stoop to that ol' rabble pleaser "lower the gas taxes"

Unfortunately his experience level is on a par with Sarah Palin, and I'm severely prejudiced against people with Harvard educations. William F Buckley had a great observation about he'd rather the United States was governed by a random selection of 200 people out of a phone book than the faculty of that august institution.

As for McCain, he's a ginuwine, 100% aviator hero (in prison, if not in the air). He's a maverick (but not Bret), and he's got a background in fiscal matters, usually supporting crooked bank managers and anti-regulation movements like his camapaign manager Phil Gramm. But then there's a negative side. His sense of humor is a bit on the 50's scale of just outside the bathroom humor, bitter and sarcastic. Other than lunch with Putin I don't see it working for him. Besides, when you come down to it, heros suck.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: kendall
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:49 AM

I know a guy who admits that he is a racist and would never vote for a N***r no matter how bright he may be. I can't deal with that mentality, it's like trying to reason with an Alligator.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM

Ok, Peace, a homemade cd (taped quality but not too bad) of the Parks Lead Belly, or Raul Julia's "Tango Bar," which don't seem to be generally available at this time.

Ron Davies- so, are the 50% of the public indicating for McCain (CNN polls) also empty?

(Some of these Obamiacs are vicious- animal control officer needed)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:12 PM

No, not "50% of the public", just the ones who, like your good self, believe in "smear and run". That may be fine in your circles. Sorry, not fine here.

You seem to like casual slander--"empty suit", referring to Obama.

I have proven you wrong. You refuse to admit it. Surprise, surprise.

Your "empty suit" term--which I somehow suspect is not original with you, is either stupidly careless or a lie. (Take your choice.   I gather it is not in fact evidence that you have had a complete mental breakdown.)   In fact you seem to be a great student of the "big lie", a very useful tactic, as you know--repeat the lie enough times and people will start to believe it. Again, maybe in your circles.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Genie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:18 PM

There are hardly any McCain thread here because Palin's really what the Republican ticket is about this time.   
Today or yesterday at a rally, she even promised the adoring crowd what the "Palin/McCain administration" would bring us.

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:40 PM

Is there an online source for the "Palin/McCain" faux pas?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:55 PM

Empty suit- google it and get untold numbers of hits.

The remark is everywhere, but I may have got it from Mike Gallagher's remark, widely reported at the time. He made it on Fox on Line, Jan. 16, 2007. Don't know who first said it.

In February, McCain characterized Obama as "eloquent but empty."
ABC News, McCain Rips Eloquent but Empty Obama

Of course "empty suit" is an old business term for an ineffective CEO. Goes back quite a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:59 PM

The term "empty suit" by the labour definition would be more aimed at the middle manager who draws a good salary but contributes little or nothing to the finished product. Top heavy management is full of empty suits who kiss the arses of those above them! Most serve little if any real purpose but they are there none the less!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 12:03 AM

(Found the Palin/McCain thingie on Olbermann.)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Genie
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:50 AM

Carol, I didn't have a link, but I did hear the clip today, on radio, where Palin referred to the "Palin/McCain" administration.   She did say it in that order.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: skarpi
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:27 AM

I think its about time Bushes and Cains and their friends
sstep down , and give someone else a change ,
you r econamy is gone , lot of soldiers are gone and US have the most of the workd agains them ???

and for what ?? you all as nation or just bushes?

kv Skarpi

I dont know Obama, but I hope you get him as you r president , and
beer , you have a political problems in you country as well ??

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Beer
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:24 AM

We sure do Skarpi. I can't even vote Liberal as there is no one running in our riding. First time in my life that I can't vote for the party of my choice.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:31 AM

Harper and Bush, that figures. Let Canada commit its sons and daughters to fight Bush's
wars. All these people such as Harper, Bush/McCain know is blood-letting and violence.
They have no concept of getting along with other nations. They will lie with impunity to
foster their military extremism. It's Machiavellian to the extreme.

A vote for Harper and McCain will lead to nuclear warfare. Say goodbye to one of the cities
in the US. Islamists in Iran will not sit by and allow the US to become a world bully.

Those who drink the blood of innocents and revel in their reputed dominance of military might can expect to go the way of other nation-states that were finally obliterated due
to their short-sighted war policies.

It's a tragedy that Canada is following the lead of a corrupt Bush/McCain administration.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 09:41 PM

"Don't know who first said it".

Fine, "empty suit" has been used before to denigrate Obama. Believe it or not, I'm aware you weren't the first to use it.

Interesting you still refuse to admit it's dead wrong, despite the proof I have just given you.

And you think it's fine to spread it.

Of course I have no idea at whom the "Obamiac" remark was aimed. But, on the off-chance it might possibly have been meant for me, let me cordially invite you to go bark up another tree.

I call people on smears and nonsense all over the political spectrum. Witness my calling some left-of-center Mudcatters on their attempt to smear McCain's advisor Scheunemann recently. And my defense of Palin's assertion that she did in fact fight corruption in the Alaska Republican party-- (before she herself got into power, NB). That doesn't change the fact that she is on the wrong side of virtually every issue, and that she has a pattern of installing unqualified cronies in high positions and carrying out vendettas using the power of government.

It's just that you seem to be the smearer du jour. And, as I pointed out, a devotee of the "big lie" approach. Your smear is actually more pernicious than most since it is 1) easy to remember, 2) dead wrong--without even a hint of justification and 3) very widespread. Goebbels would be proud.

And as an added bonus, it relieves the speaker or reader from the burden of any research on the topic--in fact it discourages research. After all, if you actually lifted a finger to do some research, you'd quickly find your remark is 100% tripe.

Which is of course the reason you never will do any research on the topic.

When you--or any other slime artist--start coming up with facts, it will start to be worth discussing with you..

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:01 PM

What, research on political platforms? Troll on, Ronnie Boy, troll on.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM

Also interesting that you choose to smear Obama with the "empty suit" garbage. Not McCain. National hero--but that says nothing about ability to govern--or even come up with coherent policies. If you thought about it at all--not likely, of course,--you'd realize McCain--and every other politician- is at least as likely to fit your smear.

And even your "platform" is a smear. If you took the time to read what I posted from the WSJ, you'd see it is not a verbatim recitation of Obama's "platform", but has commentary by the writer. Unless you don't think the WSJ writers research and think. Which would be handy for you--so you never have to think at all yourself on the topic--just sit back and slime a black man. While praising whoever his white opponent happens to be.

As I also noted earlier, good thing you have no vote in the US election. We actually have enough lazy yahoos as it is.

Sweet dreams.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Genie
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 02:53 AM

Calling Obama an "empty suit" simply because he is a gifted, charismatic orator or calling him "elitist" BECAUSE he is highly intelligent and well-educated is about as fair and logical as it would be to assume that Sarah Palin is a "vain airhead" just because she is pretty and dresses well or that she's a "dumb redneck" just because she likes to hunt.

Whatever side you're on, it would help if the insults you throw at your opponent were reality based, even a little bit.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 07:57 AM

Anyone here having difficulties with democracy as a concept in televisual times?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 08:06 AM

"a homemade cd (taped quality but not too bad) of the Parks Lead Belly, or Raul Julia's "Tango Bar,""

Using a pirated CD as a payoff for a bet says what about one's character?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Genie
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 01:15 AM

Yes, Peter. Democracy REQUIRES an informed public if it is to work. We'll never have anything remotely resembling that until the media monopolies are broken up and some semblance of a free press is restored.

G

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: DougR
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 01:38 AM

No, beer, not all mudcatters are for Obama. There are a few of us, and none of us are hiding or wearing hard hats as Amos suggests. One must understand that in the United States, there are more conservatives than there are liberals. That's why, in recent years there have been more conservative presidents than liberals. However, on the Mudcat there are definitely more liberals than conservatives. I think the reason for this is many of them still live in the Anti-Vietnam war era (even if they were not alive at the time) and they must carry on the tradition of "better red than dead", and stuff like that. Also, as "everyone" knows, only liberals love folk music and this is largely a folk music forum so, to the liberals way of thinking, we don't belong.
DougR

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 01:44 AM

It's definitely trolling that someone is doing in this thread. I notice I am being baited by that person as well (in this and other threads). I'm beginning to think that person is the all-time biggest troll in the history of the Mudcat.

While I don't agree with the stance of the person being attacked by the troll in this thread, I have great sympathy for their plight. It's like being in an echo chamber full of people scratching their fingernails on chalkboards.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 01:45 AM

LOL

Bush, conservative ? That's hilarious!!!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Genie
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 02:13 AM

Actually, Doug, you Republican devil, you -- when Americans are asked their opinions on the ISSUES, polls find that a sizeable majority of us agree more with the Democratic party than with the Republican party.

It's possible more Americans self-identify as "conservatives" than as "liberals" after several decades of Lee Atwater/Karl Rove/Grover Norquist-style denigrating the WORD "liberal" (as echoed by right-wing mouthpieces like Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, and Praeger, who are funded and given air time by well-funded right-wing sponsors regardless of ratings or the bottom line).   But if that's so, it's because the people have been so propagandized that they don't even recognize which ideology their beliefs and values are really more in line with.

Terminology can be very misleading -- as in terms like "Islamo-Fascist." It's an oxymoron, sort of like "compassionate conservative" ; D or "fiscally responsible Republican." *g*

Genie

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:06 AM

"...trolling".   Fascinating, that people all over the political spectrum don't like being challenged on their smears---and asked for logic, facts, and evidence.

If they'd give it in the first place, nobody would have to ask for it.

And then smearing would stop.   That would be big progress.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 03:05 PM

There's a vast difference between disagreement and endlessly bludgeoning people with whom one disagrees. Some people are capable of carrying on a discussion in which different people express different opinions without needing to insult and attack those with whom they disagree. The person trolling in this thread is incapable of this, and appears to be motivated entirely with a desire to goad people into responding in anger.

I have no problem with people expressing disagreement with what I say. I carry on civil and cordial discussions with many people who are able to do this, and my posting history contains ample proof of this. People who do nothing but make personal attacks on those with whom they disagree, and who are incapable of carrying on a respectful and civil discussion with those with whom they disagree, are insufferable are not interested in discussion. The are only interested in the cyber equivalent of a barroom brawl.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM

Why are you for McCain and Harper beer?

It makes no sense to me. Please explain.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 05:43 PM

The interesting thing Carol is when they are confronted with the facts, there is nothing left
but anger and this is a losing strategy in a debate.

I think it's fair to inquire as to why they think they need to engage in this behavior.

There are a lot of people who identify with an ideology regardless of issues or logic.
It's a comfort zone for them however they may never convince any reasonable person
to join them in their machinations.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:36 PM

"goading into anger". Anything you say.

You know as well as I do that the origin of the current friction is your posting, about a month ago, an article which put forth, with exactly zero evidence, the theory that Scheunemann, advisor to Georgia and McCain, had "engineered" the August war between Georgia and its erstwhile provinces. There has still been precisely zero evidence to support this idea, which therefore has all the earmarks of a smear on Scheunemann--and thus on McCain.

That thread was closed when two illustrious Mudcatters started attacking each other with foul language. As you no doubt recall, neither you nor I had anything to do with the closing of the thread.

As I have stated-- more than once, to say the least--you--or anybody else-- are more than welcome to finally start providing evidence for the Scheunemann theory. If nobody does, it is clearly a smear--just as much as the "empty suit" and "closet Moslem" attacks on Obama.

The weird thing is that nobody even expected you to take a stand for or against the article. But if you support the article's thesis, you are cordially requested to provide some evidence.

The difference between us seems to be that I oppose smears against any figure across the political spectrum--against Obama as well as McCain. You're fine with smears against McCain.   The double standard is alive and well with you.

You could call this, to coin a phrase, an "inconvenient truth"..

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:44 PM

More trolling, I see. Sorry, I'm not biting.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm voting for Harper and McCain
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM

"trolling"--

Sorry I've been busy. Choral Arts rehearsal Tuesday--Verdi Requiem. Wednesday I went to see Randy Newman--just wonderful:   "This is a love song I wrote for my first wife--while married to the second."   Then later, discussing schools: My son went to a school where they had a report card which went on for pages and pages. He only got C's D's and F's in every subject but one: he got an A in "Faces Every Situation With Confidence". Now he's president of the United States."   Plus lots of great, understated songs.   

Re: topic

Look, it's very simple.   Either there is evidence to support the Scheunemann theory or there isn't. The article cited is a shoddily written collection of insinuation and innuendo. A classic smear job on Scheunemann--and by extension McCain.

If you agree with this description, we obviously have no quarrel. If you disagree, you are welcome to start providing evidence--finally.