not bad for an englishman

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 12:45 PM

Hey! Didn't know I had that sort of power:-) Wonder if I can do the same with Gordon Brown???

It will never be won or lost, BC, but surely it's the journey that matters - not the destination.

Cheers

D.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:21 PM

Dave with your permission is it ok if I close this version of , much ado about nothing.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Aeola
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 03:41 PM

Phew!! I sense some sort of resolution to the main thread and the many sub-threads. I think the main problem is that our views are coloured by our very individual experiences. Personally I must have been very fortunate through life for I have met so many people I would call friends and very few I wouldn't. It was some 40 years ago when I first visited Eire at the time the border guard's hut was blown up at Newry. On my travels I met all sorts of people in Dublin, Naas, Cork, Bantry, Galway, Dingle etc and everyone welcomed me. I have been back many times and still continue to make good friends. Funny thing is the same thing happens in Europe, Central America and Southern England, Wales & Scotland oh! and Yorkshire!!!!

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

The phrase 'not a bad singer for an Englishman' says merely that there are Englishmen who are better at singing and there are those who are worse. That is a fact. Trying to make an issue of racism out of someone calling an Englishman an Englishman looks plain batty to me, or at worst, racist in itself. I'm quite sure if the lady had actually intended to be racist or insulting, she could have done a lot better than that.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

well no - if she'd said - you are a umusicianly tuneless twat, and you could for bore at professional level for the small nations cup winners cup. are you by any chance in training for the 440 yards boring buggers olympic event? - that would require wit, sang froid, and a certain je ne sais quoi.

Not to say physical courage - for he might come up with a rejoinder like Bugger off! You sad git. No I won't sign your cd!

being a snotty snerchy superior sneering shitbag is just so typical, it precludes all that badinage!

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:57 PM

"you are a umusicianly tuneless twat, and you could for bore at professional level for the small nations cup winners cup. are you by any chance in training for the 440 yards boring buggers olympic event?"

I didn't realise you knew my girlfriend.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 03:27 AM

"John from Kemsing"
As you quite rightly anticipated, I do believe your contribution to be deeply racist and has no place on this thread. Should you wish to open the topic in the non-musical section I would be happy to participate.
In the meantime, I would like to thank you sincerely for emphasising my point on endemic racism so well.
To all those who raised their skirts, leapt on the table in horror and shouted "race" when the Cap'n told us of his ordeal - where were you when John made his point? Where were the roars of protest at his 'immigration equals violent crime, prostitution, drug-dealing, people trafficking equals "go somewhere else"?
For that matter, where were you when Terribus was justifying the thuggish behaviour of armed and uniformed thugs towards a member of this forum (repeated thousandsfold over the last forty years - this week) in the name of law and order?
Have you all shouted yourself hoarse at the mauling our Cap'n received at the hands of that dreadful Virago?
THE SILENCE WAS DEAFENING.
Terribus:
As you sidestepped offering an opinion on whether Ard Mhacha was a bomber, perhaps you might offer one on how many lives might have been saved by the thuggish behaviour he described.
Dave:
By suggesting that racism is confined to Sun and Daily Mail readers, you are missing the point - you are equally likely to find it among Financial Times and Telegraph readers - the accent may well be different, but the end result is the same. Racisim goes through our society like Blackpool goes through rock I'm afraid.
I have an apology to make.
When this thread started I had the feeling that I had fallen down a rabbit hole and had partaken from a bottle marked "drink me" - I often do with some member's contributions. I couldn't for the life of me see where racism entered the equasion.
I was wrong - racism is present in abundance on this thread - I was looking in the wrong direction.
Would any of you like the use of a mirror?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 04:29 AM

Jim,

Dave... you are missing the point ...

You have sidestepped the point for so long, Jim, I am begining to wonder if you happen to be the world fencing champion!

You rally, rightly so, against John from Kensings racist views. Thanks for pointing them out, I apologise for missing them earlier. I suggest that if you want to know my views on this very subject ou go to this thread on 'British Criminality'. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT.

If you want to know my view about apologists you need go no further than this thread. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT.

But just in case I am not getting the message across again

1. Suggesting immigrants are troublemakers - WRONG
2. Beating up innocent Irishmen - WRONG
3. Blowing up innocent English people - WRONG
4. Making jokes based on nationalist stereotying - WRONG   

I said before and will say again - vastly differing degrees of wrong but wrong all the same. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT.

But, back to the point. Remember that, the point? What this thread is about? Yes?

A musician felt, rightly or wrongly, that he had been the subject of number 4, above. None of us were there. Only him and the antagonist in question.

A few people believed that he over reacted and said so, quite politely. Fair enough.

Other people, maybe due to some personal feud, decided to use it as an opportunity to abuse him further still.

Some saw it as an excuse to restart Anglo-Irish hostilities

Others used it as a platform for racism.

I have made my mind up which faction to support and make no excuse for backing Dick. I know him, trust him and have no reason to believe he would lie.

I suggest people just make their own minds up as to whih mast they nail their colours too.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 04:36 AM

The only persecuted minority on this thread are the musicians. Any attempt to addresss the basic proposition that its wrong and against the spirit of the folk club movement to undermine and not 'get behind ' the guest of your folk club is being firmly resisted.

One way to resist racism would be to create oases of tolerance and decency. The folk clubs used to be such places.

Racism is just part of the package of people who wish to give themselves a licence to be nasty, snotty, intolerant and generally full of shit. If you're not English enough for the English, not Irish enough for the Irish, not traditional enough for the traditionalists, not interesting enough for the ones who wish to be entertained....then its okay spew up bile, poison the waters.

Some people can't even bear to swim in the very waters they have themselves polluted. Damn right, the fault lines run through the movement like Blackpool through the rock.

Theres that parable about removing the plank from your own eye, whilst worrying about the speck in your neighbours.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: TheSnail
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 07:43 AM

Jim Carroll

where were you when...

They were over on the England's National Musical-Instrument? defending the UK folk scene against the serious threat to the UK folk scene posed by WalkAboutVerse's appalling poetry and championship of a mythical musical instrument.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 09:43 AM

I lost patience with that one.

Did the nose flute with a union jack on it come anywhere in the top ten?

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 10:38 AM

"Teribus:
As you sidestepped offering an opinion on whether Ard Mhacha was a bomber"

Now you tell me Mr Carroll - exactly what part of this do you not understand:

"Jim, in no way have I stated any opinion as to whether Armagh planted bombs or not, I have no way of knowing that, perhaps you should direct that particular question to him."

But I do realise that you have a little trouble with simple comprehension - Armagh said that his little run in had happened "returning from my newsagent during the `troubles`," - You Mr. Carroll translate that to:

"For that matter, where were you when Teribus was justifying the thuggish behaviour of armed and uniformed thugs towards a member of this forum (repeated thousandsfold over the last forty years - this week) in the name of law and order?"

At least he walked away from it Jim, his fate would have been a damn sight less certain if it had been the un-uniformed thugs of PIRA that had reason to pull him up - classic example Mrs Jean McConville - in your diatribes about thuggery tell us about her Jim, what happened to her amounted to rather more than being spread-eagled against a wall, being shouted at and given a dig in the ribs - oh and of course she never walked home ever again did she, Jim??

Now let's see what would have happened had the Security Forces not been present in their role of aiding the civil power:

In the field of explosive ordnance disposal in the period 1972-1978, over 400 Wheelbarrows (remotely operated vehicles used to counter-mine bombs) were destroyed while dealing with terrorist devices. That's 400 bombs that did not go off, did not kill or maim anyone. I'll give you, Jim Carroll and your pal Armagh a little challenge - I've offered it before on this forum and up to date no republican sympathiser has ever been able to respond to it. Give me one example where a member of ANY paramilitary group, that operated during "The Troubles", sacrificed his own life to save a member of the public, a "civilian", in Northern Ireland. By the bye, bombers who died assembling or transporting their own bombs do not qualify.

Now I on the other hand can give you many, many, instances of members of the Security Forces, Police Force and emergency services who did just that. I can also give you many, many, instances where those you appear to support acted deliberately in such a way as to cause as much death and dismemberment of innocent civilians amongst the general population that they were telling the world they were trying to "protect". Both you and Armagh seem to have a very weird idea of what behaviour deserves condemnation - because I have never heard either of you condemn the excesses of the paramilitaries - and I mean all of them, republican as well as loyalist.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Banjiman
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 11:14 AM

Please can this thread be closed.

It has degenerated from an amusing (or not) friendlyish debate about minor abuse (or not) of a fine singer and musician into something really nasty, scary and thuggish.

Paul

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:59 PM

I'm totally with Paul - I'm not, nor ever have been a 'Republican sympathyser', I have no idea of Ard Mhacha's political leanings so he can speak for himself.
I am interested what our politicians and military does in my name with the support of my taxes, and Ard Mhacha's described experience, and many more I know of (including a few of my own on visits to the North-East) go far beyond the pale as far as I'm concerned.
I am happy to discuss my views on Irish history with anybody off-line but please don't throw shit about.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 08:26 PM

Dick - did they book you back?

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Oct 08 - 02:30 PM

yes.but the woman[a Dubliner].does not do the booking.
she was just a dub,in west cork acting the bollocks.

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:21 AM

Good man Captain Birdseye. That is exactly what that person was acting, and poss/prob with drink taken too?
It happens everywhere, doesn't it ?
You aren't going to "go away" though are you ? from the music scene or from Ireland , I hope, because of one "b-----ks ?

Subject: RE: not bad for an englishman
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:11 AM

no,of course not,
and as I stated earlier, the majority of Irish people are very friendly.